SF Councillor calls on workers to pay the bin tax

by aunty joe Fri Oct 03, 2003 17:36

"When Bills are issued they should be paid just like electricity or the Television licence"

I've got a bill here i've just issued for 1.5mil for having to comprehend this fuckers existance, do you think hell pay?

by Janus Fri Oct 03, 2003 17:39

This is fucking disgraceful. Mark Daly has always been a bit of a muppet but this is nonsense. I'd be interested to see what SF have to say about this. Especially considering Sean Crowe who is the TD for the area made what at the time seemed a good speech at the demo outside the Dail about how he hasn't paid his bin tax and has no intention of doing so.

The question is though, has he broken party policy? SF have avoided calling on people to not pay, but they have also obviously avoided calling on people to pay. And if he has broken party policy, would they expell him?

One thing though, describing Mark Daly as a prominent member of Sinn Fein, even in the area, is a bit much. I can remember congratulating an SF member after 99 Locals on electing six councillors and he forcefuly expressed himself of the opinion that he would have preffered five, they hadn't thought Daly would get elected and didn't really want him.

According to the piece the other SF representatives in the area haven't paid, Cathal King and Sean Crowe, along with three Labour party councillors who have also refused to pay.

by Typical Fri Oct 03, 2003 17:45

Perhaps we should all contact Cllr Daly and the Sinn Fein office to explain to them exactly how we feel about these fucking disgusting comments.

by Daly hater Fri Oct 03, 2003 17:58

Daly is an arsehole anyway and hopefully this event is maybe the excuse SF have to turf him out.

by John Meehan Fri Oct 03, 2003 18:10

Is history repeating itself?

Fine Gael leader Alan Dukes realised in 1987/88 that if his party continued voting against the Fianna Fáil Haughey minority government a general election would have to be called. How could this dilemma be solved?

The normal rules of the parliamentary game are to be a hypocrite in opposition - especially if you are leader of a small right wing party that agrees with most of the policies being implemented by a bigger rival.

Alas, this play-acting is not possible when the government party does not control a parliamentary majority - so Dukes solved the dilemma by unveiling a "Tallaght Strategy" - atthe Tallaght Chamber of Commerce he announced that Fine Gael would no longer vote against the Haughey Fianna Fáil government in the Dáil.

Risky stuff - fifteen years later a shrunken Fine Gael party is paying the long-term price - an increasing number of voters see no fundamental difference between FG and FF - and they are right.

Marx observed that history repeats itself first as tragedy, then as farce.

Looks like Mark Daly has skipped the tragic bit.

by Janus Fri Oct 03, 2003 18:21

There are two prominent examples of rank idiocy on this thread. One is the actions of Mark Daly who betrayed his constituents, his class and his party.

The other is John Meehan's bizarre post. Mark Daly has, of all SF councillors in Dublin, the least public profile, the least support, the least anything. He's a guy they didn't expect to get elected and who has been hidden away ever since.

SF should never have run him, and shouldn't run him again, but to even suggest that Mark Daly's decision to pay the Bin Tax is because he has some careful strategy akin to Dukes' mad decision is nothing less than rank idiocy. To think if SF even had made that decision that they would have bothered consulting Daly is rank idiocy.

Daly is an embarrassment to SF, and has never been anything else. He's now a dangerous embarassment to them, having been exposed for the right wing bastard he is

Daly fucked up, big time, he should be chucked out, it's not the tip of some shinner conspiracy.

by Ben Dover Fri Oct 03, 2003 18:24

I recall that the only time Cllr Mark Daly came to national prominance was at a recent Ard Fheis where the issue of ruling out coalition with Fianna Fail was being discussed. While the leadership argued for a fudge ie a special conference if the oportunity of coalition arose, Daly argued vociferously in favour of coalition. Even if he does believe in the bin tax I'm surprised he said anything given the grief he may get from Crowe et al

by TALLAGHT MAN Fri Oct 03, 2003 18:37

SF have had a very hard time over the bin tax in Tallaght. Firstly it was claimed that Séan Crowe paid his bin tax, his excuse was that it came in his wife's name and she paid it. But these rumours have been shown to be false. But it seems that Mark Daly actually DOES pay his bin tax, this doesn't look like a rumour- the Tallaght Echo is a proper paper and wouldn't just publish rumours.

by Meehaningless watch Fri Oct 03, 2003 18:51

Don't get too upset. It would seem that Meehan loves SF baiting more than being involved in real struggles. (That search engine is a great tool) If the revolution is not being fought at meetings - forget about it. (Yes - you can minute that).

John - Marx also said "the philosophers have interpreted the world, our job however is to change it."

Anytime you are ready I'm sure the campaign would love to see you.

by Mexicano Fri Oct 03, 2003 18:54

Sinn Fein's councillors don't have a very inspiring record on the bin tax.

Their Sligo councillors voted to introduce the tax in return for one of their number getting a go at being Mayor. Then they voted to increase the charge. Nice one lads.

Their councillors on Dublin Corporation also took part in a slimy deal to get the tax in. All of the parties on the Corpo knew that it would be unpopular and none of them wanted to take the blame. So some councillors from each party voted for the tax and some against, with an overall majority voting in favour. Sinn Fein were the least involved in the deal. Of their four councillors, two would show up and vote against while the other two would produce sick notes and fail to show. The problem for SF was that the deal was leaked to the campaign and one of the left papers (the Socialist Party one?) published an article predicting that two of the SF cllrs would fail to show. Sure enough, only two SF councillors turned up. Both voted against the tax and both then helped the other parties to sow confusion by voting against having the votes of all councillors on the bin tax publically recorded.

Now we have one of their South Dublin councillors coming out and telling people to pay - a stab in the back to the working class people of Dublin.

I have no doubt that Daly wasn't told to come out and make those remarks by the SF leadership. SF have done their best to maintain a verbal opposition to the bin tax (after they helped to introduce it in some areas). They will be embarrassed by Daly and quite rightly.

The thing is though that Daly isn't that much of an abberation from the actual record of SF on councils, is he?

The veteran French communist Arlette Laguillier uses the slogan "always with the workers" whenever she stands for president. Maybe Sinn Fein can use the slogan "sometimes with the workers, sometimes not".

by Modotti, Tina Fri Oct 03, 2003 21:43

Last comment was a typical sectarian one by the SWP member. By the way, Arlette never would call herself a "communist", she,s a socialist in the best democratic and non-stalinist tradition! And she is in one of the two parties (the other is the LCR) one still should vote for in France!

by talllaght trinner Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:04

Sinn Fein in Tallaght are suffering a major backlash. Ordinary working people are very annoyed at the fact that the SF Party is NOT taking an active part in anything anti bin tax in their area. Recently Seán Crowe has talked the talk but he has consistently failed to live up to his talk by failing to attend any anti bin tax meeting or getting any material out.

At all the public meetings against the double tax on refuse, SF's absence is noted from the floor and condemned by ordinary workers, as is Labour's. Although in fairness in to the Labour councillors in Tallaght, Although i am no fan of them, they appear to have broken the party line and not to have paid the tax.

As mentioned above those active in the Anti Bin tax movement in Tallaght are the Socialist Party (who are gaining a major profile in the area with a lot of work), the WSM, but I think Gregor Kerr, their man in Tallaght is gone away for a while, and the Workers party and SWP in the clondalkin area.

by John Meehan Sat Oct 04, 2003 20:15

Mark Daly's actions on the bin tax are consistent with leaving the door open to entering a coalition government with right wing parties -

These actions are also consistent with membership of a party that has participated in a right wing coalition in the six counties.

It is useful to debate such issues - but only with people who identify themselves. Cowards like Janus, who hide behind psuedonyms and make personal atttacks should be ignored.

by pat c Sat Oct 04, 2003 20:19

Janus is no coward, like many people on indy, including some editors, he chooses to remain anonymous.

Do you not think the use of the term coward is a personal attack?

by Edmund Burke Sun Oct 05, 2003 17:01

Irrespective of Daly's intelligence or indeed his embarrisment to Sinn Féin, the party has serious questions to answer. Daly is an elected representative of the Sinn Féin party. His face is blared over their "Fenian" newsletter, which only appears near election time by the way.

I dont think Sinn Féin are in the least bit embarrissed of the poor sap, in fairness Gerry Adams everytime he comes to tallaght visits him doesnt he?

by Janus Mon Oct 06, 2003 13:50

The statement put out below is the SF response to the whole thing for the curious.

I have neither time nor interest in entering a debate with John Meehan and his ridiculous arguments based purely on ignorance and a rather disturbing level of paranoia. Yes, SF are moving to the right. I left the party over that very issue. But to say that Mark Daly represents ANYTHING in SF is rank idiocy (I like the phrase). It's not an indication of any policy shift within SF, it's an indication that Mark Daly is an idiot and has bad politics. This is hardly a revelation. If someone credible and respected within SF like Aengus O Snodaigh, or Dessie Ellis had paid their charges, then it would be a wider issue of Dublin SF and what they are doing.

-----

Sinn Féin South Dublin County Councillor Mark Daly has issued a statement following an article in this week's Tallaght Echo where Cllr. Daly confirmed that he has paid his bin charges.

Cllr. Daly said 'The decision to pay my bin charges was my own, taken for personal reasons. I remain actively committed to removing this service charge, in fact on every occasion the estimates came before South Dublin County Council for ratification, I voted against them.'

Cllr. Daly concluded by saying, 'Sinn Féin remains committed to working with local communities in opposing this inequitable tax. It is important to understand that my decision to pay this tax was not contrary to Sinn Féin policy. We defend the right of people to refuse to pay a clearly unjust tax, if they make a political decision not to do so.'

by Dalymount Mon Oct 06, 2003 15:29

So this "clarifying" statement from Sinn Fein strongly implies that SF support people's right not to pay but don't actually encourage people not to pay. Otherwise Daly's decision to pay could hardly be described as not being contrary to party policy.

So either SF aren't encouraging non-payment or this statement is just muddying the waters some more. Which is it?

by Arnold Rimmer Mon Oct 06, 2003 16:28

I THINK that Daly paying his bin charges is not contrary to SF party policy. Telling people it's like any other bill and should be paid is contrary to party policy as he is both calling for payment and describing it as other than double tax.

His actions did't violate policy, but his statement did. At least that's how I think it is. SF have never called on people to not pay, they've simply outlined the situation, said they opposed with and disagreed with the tax and left it up to the people to make their own decision.