Stop the Slaughter in Gaza! - Dublin Demo 02.03.08

by Kev - IPSC (pers cap) Sun Mar 02, 2008 22:48

As I understand it, this demo was only called after an emergency meeting of the Palestinian Community late last night, so special thanks to all for caming along at such short notice.

(Below are Freda's pictures, posted on her behalf)

by Kev - IPSC (pers cap) Sun Mar 02, 2008 23:09

Couple more for the road, and a (very) short video of the event from RTE.

http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/230-2344146-320-180.smil

by Kev - IPSC (pers cap) Sun Mar 02, 2008 23:21

Short youtibe video (without music instead of sound cos, apparently, my mic is broke)

by publo Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:25

From the website of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights in Gaza

http://www.pchrgaza.org/files/campaigns/english/gaza_20....html

by Mike Novack Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:57

"it's calling for an end to the indiscriminate slaughter of Gazans "

The casualty figures do not appear to justify that description. Were the Israelis slaughtering Gazans indiscriminantly the ratio of non-combatants killed to combatants killed would be MUCH higher. There seems to be reasonably close numbers given by both sides, about 2/3 of the casualties combatants and 1/3 non-combatants. Actually that indicates the Isralies are using a great deal of care to minimize collateral civilian casualties. The resistance fighters of Gaza are not taking care to separate themselves from surrounding civlians before opening fire on the Israelis. Not that this would be easy to do as the place is pretty densely populated.

by Sancho Panza - International Socialist Mon Mar 03, 2008 13:58

Whilst the fact remains that innocent Israeli civilians have been wary of rockets landing from one settlement to the next , and some have been injured and one has been killed, there has been a significant shift in the mind of the majority of the Israeli public who now recognise that negotiations with Hamas are unavoidable if genuine peace is to be founded. Whether this materialises is another matter, we all know how the institutions of the state have ways to put the fear of god into us.

Nevertheless, there has been a small, yet significant, optimistic change that has to be noted in the midst of barbarism we have witnessed over the last week and over the last 60 years this May - And that is Israeli's, specifically elements of the youth who have been making themselves heard, but unfortunately due to the western media, have not been seen, are calling for genuine change.

It is not some phenomenal mindset in Palestinians that violence is the answer to everything, you would be forgiven for thinking so as the western media have done alot to convince us of such madness, though you would have to repent for thinking such. It is that Palestinians, believe it or not, are surrounded by violence, the threat of violence, erosion of their human rights, deportation, torture, internment, isolation, all the products of the imperial conquest and state violence of Zionism. It is the situations and conditions which surround them, the limitations of options for Palestinians due to a 60 years war on Palestine, that Terrorism and National Liberation are the few cards left to play. But these are not the only cards.

You may say to yourself that but Palestinians do kill children, women, the elderly, young men, innocnet civilians! And it is true that Hamas and others have are continue to do so. And they will continue...until a genuine peace policy is put into place. But lets not rewrite history or forget times passed. When Hamas came to power they called a ceasefire for some 11 months and tried their damndest to halt dissenters from firing rockets. And within 11 months the ceasefire was called off. Why you may ask? Because Israel continued to build settlements and killed hundreds of Palestinians for a militant few. This disproportionate, indiscriminate violence, of saying one thing and building a settlement flies in the face of peace, and if nothing else is simply a declaration of war for those who suffer on the recieving end.

But as i have said, these are not the only cards. You now have now a majority of Israeli's who want real, on the ground, change. Peace, being a better word. And if they too are willing to accept some terms then there are some long, hard facts to be faced.

Often there is talk about a one state solution, either for Palestinians or Israelis. It is war talk. There is talk, more often than not, of a two state solution, both drawn across ethnic lines, religious, racist lines, both equally bitter. Or there is one, that is talked about rarely, one very real if those are willing to accept it on both sides. That is a one state solution for both. Now you may say i'm utopian in such a belief but believe me there are those who want it on both sides, willing to address old grievances and abandon the barbarism of the past, to release prisoners, allow the right of return etc. In the Israeli youth, in particular it is possible to work for the future providing that we accept that the future is now.

James Connolly, a man known for wanting a one state solution in Ireland neither based on King nor Kaiser, once said that, "The only true prophets are those who carve out the future". Palestinians and Israeli's, a people who have been used by the west for imperialist and racist reasons, should not accept their lot. Society, like life is a process and we should abandon idealism but strive toward it.

by redjade Mon Mar 03, 2008 17:14

Vanity Fair [magazine] has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power. (The State Department declined to comment.)

But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.

[....]

Within the Bush administration, the Palestinian policy set off a furious debate. One of its critics is David Wurmser, the avowed neoconservative, who resigned as Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief Middle East adviser in July 2007, a month after the Gaza coup.

Wurmser accuses the Bush administration of “engaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory.” He believes that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. “It looks to me that what happened wasn’t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen,” Wurmser says.

The botched plan has rendered the dream of Middle East peace more remote than ever, but what really galls neocons such as Wurmser is the hypocrisy it exposed. “There is a stunning disconnect between the president’s call for Middle East democracy and this policy,” he says. “It directly contradicts it.”

more at
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaz...e=all

another Neo-Con fuck up - can we make a list, now?

by Kev - IPSC (pers cap) Mon Mar 03, 2008 20:57

"Even yesterday evening, after the IDF already had killed about 50 Palestinians, at least half of them unarmed, and including quite a number of women and children, Jerusalem continued to claim, "At present there will be no major ground operation." It's incredible: The IDF penetrates the heart of a crowded refugee camp, kills in a terrifyingly wholesale manner, with horrible bloodshed, and Israel continues to disseminate the lie of restraint.

Two days earlier Israel killed more Palestinians than have been killed by all the Qassams over the past seven years. Among the dead were four children and an infant. The next day Israel killed another five boys. And who is the victim? Israel. And who is cruel? The Palestinians. "

by Rock of Sense Tue Mar 04, 2008 08:57

The Palestinians should therefore be given a green light to fire rockets into Israel and kill innocent men women and children?

Get real.

Hamas is an islamofascist organisation bent on the destruction of Israel and a second holocaust.

by Kev - IPSC (pers cap) Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:53

Three Israelis have died (one civilian and two Occupation soldiers) in the past five days or so. In that time over 100 Gazans (around half of them civilians according to Levy, the UN and other sources - and about 20 of them children) and over 250 have been injured. And this is on top of the siege that has been in place since January 2006. And you talk about "innocent men, women and children dying"? _You_ get real.

For the record, I support neither Hamas nor Fateh, but this sentence: "Hamas is an islamofascist organisation bent on the destruction of Israel and a second holocaust" is beyond parody.

Anyway, here's a couple more vids from Sunday's demo, from Freda.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IUmoUs9HjsI

by Dunfee. Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:45

If you were listening to the Matt Cooper show last night at about 6.15pm you would have heard the Israeli ambassador Zion Evrony getting a very easy ride on the subject of the slaughter in Gaza.

Evrony ranted a little on the subject of proportionality saying that you cant just compare numbers of dead. you had tro consider the 250000 people living in terror of the qassams. No I'm not bullshitting you , thats what the man said without a whisper from Matt Cooper to inquire if it was then fear that was the reason a hundred people or more got massacred in Gaza.
Evrony was let continually shout that "when the Qassams stopped the military interventions would stop".
Did Cooper call him to task on the continuous military intervention in the West Bank where Qassams are not a feature ? No he didnt.
Did he mention the siege agains the Palestinians as an act of collective punishment ? No.
Did he mention Human Rights Law ? Not once.

Cooper did get on to him at one stage to ask him why they wouldnt just negotiate with Hamas, but Evrony just brushed him off with the three conditions nonsense. Recognising Israels right to exist was a prerequisite, of course. Did Cooper ask him what the hell that stupid phrase is supposed to mean? No.

Was he asked about Israel's responsibilities under the Peace Agreements. ? Did Cooper take thim to task on the illegal settlements , the illegal Apartheid wall, the land confiscations ? No. no. no.

Matt Cooper is a lightweight by any standards but these questions could have at least scratched the surface of the Diplomatic bullet proof coating afforded to Israel by the international community as they pursue a bloody war against Palestinian society itself .

Did he take the opportunity ? No.

Should we be surprised ? Apparently not. This is just the way things are.

by Maerton - none Wed Mar 05, 2008 22:07 maertondavis at gmail dot com

Hamas took over Gaza by force. Hamas states in article 7 of its constitution that its sole aim is the destruction of Israel and the killing of all Jews, no matter where they hide. Why should Israel not kill them first?
Poor Palestinians me you know what. First they fire shells at Israel and then complain that Israel fires back. What a load of eejits.

by maerton - none Wed Mar 05, 2008 22:23

Regarding the Israeli Ambassador and the questions and replies. Did anyone ever ask those questions of the Palestinian representative too? Why they rejected Camp David? Why they rejected Taba? Why they murdered children in Maalot? Why they blew up the Pizza parlour in Jerusalem? Why did they blew up the Park hotel on the festival of Passover? Why did they murder 17 children at the Dolphinarium?
Why did they murder people at Mikes place? Why did they murder people at Maxims in Haifa? Why do the Palestinians never allow the Red Cross to visit Israeli prisoners of War? Why do the Palestinians never allow any visitors or contact with Israeli prisoners of war. Why do the Palestinians desecrate Israeli soldiers bodies and show their body parts on television?Please ask the Palestinian rep. to answer these questions or maybe Dunfee himself knows the answers?

by D.HaCohen - Private citizen Fri Mar 07, 2008 13:09

There are at least two moral points in this debate worthy of a bit more than Ya Boo Sucks!
First the number of casualties - or bombs - in a dispute is not a tally of the weight of morality. The Germans lost near enough ten times the bombing campaign casualties in 40 -45, than the British in the 1940-43 Blitz let alone the German smash -up of Guernica, Warsaw and Rotterdam, but that does not let off the Germans for having started the war or the led the way in bombing cities despite collateral damage to civilians - even the civilians were in no way involved in the war production or other efforts.
Second and following, the Arab parties started this war in 1947 by declaring even before the passage of UN 181 partition resolution that they would fight it. The Arabs have been fighting UN partition two state policy ever since and the charters of the PLO and Hamas still do declare they are out to destroy Israel - a recognised and accepted memebr of the UN. If Arabs will not accept UN policy it is a bit hypocritical and downright cynical to whinge and try to shelter under other UN resolutions when all UN resolutions on Palestine and Israel are posited on two states - which the Arabs firing rockets do not accept.
When the Egyptians finally decided under Sadat to recognise Israel and "live in peace with their neighbours" per 194, they got their Sinai and peace. Ditto Jordan which is in effect protected from Syrian imperial ambition by Israeli power. It is time for Palestinistas to grow up and read the resolution texts paying careful attention to what is in them but not in Arab leaflets, and to what is not in them but in Arab propaganda.
The Egyptians created the PLO to sabotage Jordan; and the Iranians created Hizbollah to sabotage Lebanon to obtain an outlet in the West and more firmly suborn Syria to them. The USA is not the sole wooden spoon in the World, and Israel if left alone by its neighbours would be as harmless as Switzerland to all and sundry - but do not expect any state to turn the other cheek - that is for clergy in pulpits.

by S. Fields Fri Mar 07, 2008 17:15

With regard to the Palestinian Arab Natives rejecting the UN Plan for partitioning the land that makes complete sense. Historically it is those colonists who come in to a land from outside who are eager to partition land , to get a share of what is obviously not theirs. it is completey natural for the indigenous inhabitants to reject this as they only stand to lose out. Be it a small part of their land or a large part of their land, they will naturally not agree to hand it over to immigrant colonists against their permission.

It is crazy and unprecedented to expect a people to willingly accept the partition of their land. While it is completely expected that a people wishing to get land will accept anything they are offered.

As to who started the war, there are books about that and needless to say wars are usually started by those who feel they have much to gain and not those who have much to lose.

by Gab Fri Mar 07, 2008 20:46

Well, take a look in the books, then.
The Arabs started the '47-'48 war. It's a fact.

by S. Fields Fri Mar 07, 2008 23:13

Gab,

You obvioulsy have in mind that I take a ridiculously racist text such as " From time immemorial " which reinforces your delusions and is thoroughly discredited orientalist nonsense. To be on that page we have to accept the gormless presumptions that Palestine was discoverd as an empty land by the Zionists. That the Arabs were crazed barbarians and that the Palestinians just walked away from their homes because they didnt really care about them after the Israelis peacefully declared independence..

Why dont you try Ilan Pappe's "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine"

The actual factual history.

by Reporter 12 Sat Mar 08, 2008 17:00

Eight Human Rights groups released a report Thursday. They introduced their findings saying,

The situation for 1.5 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip is worse now than it has ever been since the start of the Israeli military occupation in 1967. The current situation in Gaza is man-made, completely avoidable and, with the necessary political will, can also be reversed.

The Report points out Israel's responsibility by international law to Gaza.

Israel retains effective control of the Gaza Strip, by virtue of the full control it exercises over the Gaza Strip's land border, its air space and territorial waters, and the movement of people and goods. Hence, the Israeli authorities are bound by their obligations under international humanitarian and human rights law to ensure the welfare of the Palestinian population in the OPT. The blockade, in response to indiscriminate rocket attacks into Israel, constitutes a reprisal against a civilian population and is forbidden by international humanitarian law.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/03/06/gaza.implosion.pdf

by Sean Mc Sun Mar 09, 2008 02:44

Israel must relinquish control over two of Gazas borders only.

West and South.

Access to the company of fellow humanity and to the world. It is criminal to deny people interaction with the outside world. Gaza's ports must be opened.

by Reporter 12 Tue Mar 11, 2008 13:17

It looks as though you might get what you want, to the South any how.

Talks are ongoing through Egyptian mediation to get an agreement in place to open the Rafah border with Egypt.
Israel and Hamas are both making noises about stopping firing at wach other. Israel seems to be going out of its way to state that it will not hit Gaza if no Qassams are fired. even claimimg it is a new order. Of course this contradicts the previous stance that the aggression against Gaza was always only a response to Qassams.

"According to Israeli government sources, the new orders to the army come as part of Egyptian efforts to mediate a truce between the Hamas movement and Israel."

http://www.imemc.org/article/53390

If the Egyptians open the Rafah and the Israelis stop firing, then Hamas will have to stop the Qassams.

by Reporter 12 Tue Mar 11, 2008 19:04

Israel agrees to stop hitting Gaza and offers a month long truce to Hamas.

" Amos Gilaad, the Israeli Defence Minister Adviser for Security and Political Affairs told Israeli media on Tuesday that Israel has agreed to announce a month-long trial truce with Palestinian resistance groups in Gaza. "

http://www.imemc.org/article/53415

Now can the Rafah border be open to all people and allow for life to return to Gaza. The Sealing of Gaza is an act of agression in itself destroying the lives the whole population in a way that will ensure that the resistance must continue. Even the timid EU is prepared to give a tentative backing to allow Hamas to play it's part in negotiating matters.

"She showed indirect support for negotiation with Hamas over the opening of the Rafah crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip, on the condition that Hamas agree to work closely with the Fatah movement, which she described as " moderate". "

http://www.imemc.org/article/53411

But can Fatah be trusted to act honestly to aid the Gazans when we now have all the proof we need in the recent Vainty Fair " Gaza Bonbshell" Article that they were actively seeking to instigate a coup against Hamas with the help of the US less than a year ago.

There is a lot hanging in the balance for the Palestinians right now and the players are all hostile against them.

But at least there is hope.

by witness Wed Mar 12, 2008 20:38

Now you see it clearly. The same repeated pattern. When a period of calm prevails and the talk of a truce starts to be whispered then ISrael will lash out and create havoc somewhere in the occupied territories. Four men riddled to death at the side of the road by Israeli assassins in the West Bank.

Truce, Candles, Flames of Hope? What a terrible joke. The West bank is not firing Qassams at any part of Israel, yet in the middle of a truce proposition we have a mass murder. There can be no peace with this monstrous killer roaming the streets killing at will.

If or when Hamas retaliate with rockets then the usual shower of Zombie worshippers will be shouting for Gaza Blood.

But for those who wish to see, it is clear. Israsel has struck at the Palestinians again.

The Palestinians have vowed to retaliate.

So Quencheth your flame and continueth the war.

http://www.imemc.org/article/53442

http://www.imemc.org/article/53443

by witness - no Wed Mar 26, 2008 16:40

Following on from this agression JR Malsin, a Jewish American Journalist, had this to say on the Electronic Intafada

" It was the moral equivalent of a team of Palestinians, disguised as Israelis, driving an Israeli car into Tel Aviv and gunning down four off-duty Israeli soldiers....

Rather than stop attacks against Israel, the Bethlehem shooting has already caused the opposite. The momentary lull in violence is over. Islamic Jihad responded by launching a barrage of projectiles on the areas around the Gaza Strip. The Egyptian-sponsored ceasefire talks appear to be moot, and Israel is back on war footing. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas will come under even more pressure to withdraw from negotiations with Israel, for the sake of credibility among his own people. "

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9417.shtml

And of course it stands completely to reason that this absolutely serves the Israeli cause that requires the conflict always be simmering just at the point of boiling. Peace is the enemy to Israel's unilateral project. Whoever cant see this is surely blinded by something or other.

by Like Mike Thu Mar 27, 2008 17:14

According to Haaretz , today

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/968883.html

" Approximately 15 Qassam rockets were launched from the Gaza Strip against the western Negev yesterday. Two Israeli citizens were lightly injured in Sderot while another Israeli was lightly wounded when he was shot by a sniper as he worked the fields of Kibbutz Ein HaShlosha, near the border with the Gaza Strip. "

Truce ? Hamas want a truce ?

Funny way of going about it.

by witness - no org. Thu Mar 27, 2008 23:22

The first step in looking for a truce is proposing one. If you are told that there will be no truce then you can be pretty sure that you have no partner for peace.

We have seen Hamas continually propose a truce and continually rejected by Israel.

" Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Sunday rejected Hamas' offer of a cease-fire in the Gaza Strip, saying the government would not hold talks with the Islamist group until it recognizes Israel. "

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/937196.html

So in plain English in Haaretz we are told by Israeli government that Israel wants no truce. No mystery there.

So does Hamas fire Qassams then without provocation and cause Israel to maybe have to react in self defence ?

Only if you consider current conditions to be unprovocative :

Continual incursions into Gaza. Ongoing raids in the West Bank, accompanied by mass kidnappings and assaults and shootings. Assassinations of Palestinians on streets in the West Bank, House demolitions. Not to mention the anti Arab Pogroms in Jerusalem over the weekend. Smashing of cars and rioting by Jewish Fundamentalists against Arabs citizens. And enduringly , a complete siege against the needs of the people of Gaza.

So if Palestinians fired rockets at Israel on Wednesday it was in the midst of provocation of an unprecedented level.

But the article you posted from Haaretz also failed to mention somthing else. :

http://www.imemc.org/article/53772

" The Israeli army invades Gaza, Palestinian Resistance shells nearby Israeli areas....

Israeli army tanks and bulldozers invaded the village of Al Qarrara in the southern part of the Gaza Strip, on Wednesday night.

Tanks and bulldozers destroyed two homes owned by local farmers in addition to bulldozing 50 Dunums of land used for farming local sources reported. (one Acre = Four Dunums).

Meanwhile the Al Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of Hamas, stated that its fighters fired at least nine home-made shells at southern Israeli areas located near Gaza on Wednesday late at night. "

Why cant we see any mention of the Israeli raid into Gaza in the article you posted , Mike?

by witness - no org. Thu Apr 03, 2008 17:59

Endless Israeli Violence in the Gaza Strip as the army continues it's policy of provoking rocket fire. Invasion in the South and Invasions in the North, Kidnappings in the West bank. It is standard policy to promote the conflict at all times in order to ensure no peace can even begin to emerge. Then when the rocket fire of Palestinians factions claim a victim to broadcast it through every media outlet in the world. Send politicians to Sderot, get Condalleeza Rice to speak out in the USA. Etc Etc. Etc.

Israel occupation in Gaza is more intense now than before they pretended to leave the place.

http://www.imemc.org/article/53912

" Palestinian medical sources reported that ten Palestinians were injured during an on going Israeli army invasion targeting Al Qarrara village in the southern part of the Gaza strip......

....Meanwhile, the Israeli army kidnapped five Palestinians from the northern parts of Gaza Strip, after a dozen of tanks, accompanied with a bulldozer, and invaded the Sifa area, just north of Beit Lahiya town in the northern part of the Gaza Strip. "

by Reporter 12 Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:05

Reports coming out of Gaza are getting fewer and fewer as the siege there crushes the life completely out of the remnants of the society.
Palestine Free Voice http://palestinefreevoice.blogspot.com/ , is one of the few outlets of information still posting bulletins highlighting the deteriorating conditions as Summer approaches.

"One other serious developement: PalestineFreeVoice have in several reports also alarmed about the Gaza Strip water conditions. The hot summer is approaching and water networks are out of work, Gaza Strip BEACHES are POLLUTED , the SEWAGE WATER is about to submerge over Gaza Strip because of the Israelis blockade and the siege."

Every day the invasions continue and the death toll climbs slowly but surely in the hospitals where people are trapped without medicines and supplies. There is almost no talk now of the negotiations that were ongoing in last month between Egypt and Hamas to open the border to allow the society to breathe. Gaza is poised on the very edge of disintergration as the International community goes about it's business of ignoring the crimes and their illustrious leader, Abbas, still mutters meaningless phrases in far away places.
When the summer arrives there will be a plague of deaths in Gaza due to the Siege which no doubt Israel will disguise with a barrage of shells and dismembered bodies blamed on terrorists.

And in the meantime Israel's man of Peace, Shimon Peres, has only this position to take :

" Israeli president, Shimon Peres, stated yesterday that stopping homemade shells fire from Gaza onto nearby Israeli areas requires Israel to reoccupy the Gaza Strip, an option Israel never wants. "

http://www.imemc.org/article/54051

Poor victimised Israel has no option once again that to muder and mutialte the already starving peoples in Gaza. How painful for them in their comfortable air conditioned houses to have to send in the tanks to destroy the dust piles of Gaza for the summer.
At least the way things are going with the trickle of news coming out , we wont have to hear too much about it to make us feel ashamed.