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Salthill Warshow Photos : Today, Galway Whored its Conscience to Militarism and Mammon

category galway | anti-war / imperialism | news report author Sunday June 24, 2007 15:10author by TD - Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign Report this post to the editors

... whilst, Galway Alliance Against War expressed its outrage and contempt

Shortly,
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Neill Farrell, as regards the protest, will deliver an account of today's well attended and pristine proceedings?.

Newly elected Mayor of Galway City, Tom Costelloe (Lab), doing his duty.
Newly elected Mayor of Galway City, Tom Costelloe (Lab), doing his duty.

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Neill O'Farrell of GAAW
Neill O'Farrell of GAAW

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author by TD - IPSCpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 15:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

More to follow!

Ed Horgan and Margaretta D'Arcy and ... ?
Ed Horgan and Margaretta D'Arcy and ... ?

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This piper played a different tune than that of the organisers of the aerial obscenity
This piper played a different tune than that of the organisers of the aerial obscenity

author by TD - IPSCpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 20:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

first of the Warshow

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Rita reading one of her poems
Rita reading one of her poems

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The Thunder Shites
The Thunder Shites

author by TD - IPSCpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 21:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

5 !

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author by TD - IPSCpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 21:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

5 !

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author by Jimbobpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 22:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

3 people taken to hospital after door falls from RAF helicopter.

author by Former pacifistpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 22:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I went into the tent and the kindly Irish soldier gave me a go with the Steyr AUG rifle mounted with a 40mm grenade launcher.

It was totally cool.

author by Conor Creganpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 22:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This picture was sent by a friend who was near the seen.

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author by Paulpublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 22:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In Saturday's Irish Times, Tom Clonan wrote about interviewing some of the people piloting the US F-16s in the Salthill Air Show. According to his article, although the Irish state contends that it remains neutral, the pilots and crew of the US jets were "unanimous" in seeing Ireland as a participant in the war on terror. All of the team have served in Afghanistan or Iraq, and most of them have passed through Shannon Airport on their way there.

According to one of the pilots,
"Ireland is an important ally to the United States in the international war on terror. Fundamentally, Ireland's views on human rights and freedom are exactly the same as those of the United States".

What a compliment.

Subscription required for article.

Related Link: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/newsfeatures/2007/0623/1181771685639.html
author by Wisdopublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 22:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Seriously get a grip!

I see the air show, (a pleasant day out for irish families and aviation enthusiasts) being called an "obscenity".

If thats how your scale of outrage is calibrated, what do you call the massacre at quana?

Proportion!

author by Juliapublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 23:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Are they badly hurt, or will it be chalked up to minor collateral damage? Seriously, hope they're okay.

As for last commentator, I don't think that celebrating machines of death, however shiny, fast and loud they are, is wholesome fun.

But then again, if Al Qaeda did an exhibition of manouvers by trainee suicide drivers in vans, would it be okay to put on the TV? Here's Achmed, he hopes to take out a market place, but he''ll have to master the clutch a bit better... and Mottada... his transit van will take him to Allah as a martyr.... get your T-shirts folks, it's all good family entertainment....

I suppose it all depends on your brainwashing... hollywood movies and FOX news make F-16s seem somehow normal and kid friendly... and being exposed to dodgy interpretations of the Koran, and pictures of kids killed by F16s makes suicide bombing seem like a reasonable career path...

author by Liampublication date Sun Jun 24, 2007 23:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just got back from the Airshow and really enjoyed it. Well worth the drive over from Longford. Thunderbirds were awesome!! Looking forward to next year.

author by martinpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 02:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

great show thunderbirds were fantastic but the RAF eurofighter was my personal favourite and not an anti war protester in sight great show.

author by Dafpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 08:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Wasn't there a time when an event was protested at the actual location of the event? It says a lot for how in the pockets of the establishment GAAW are that they wouldn't even bother treading on anybodies toes by attending the event.

author by Garrypublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 08:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"I suppose it all depends on your brainwashing... hollywood movies and FOX news make F-16s seem somehow normal and kid friendly... and being exposed to dodgy interpretations of the Koran, and pictures of kids killed by F16s makes suicide bombing seem like a reasonable career path..."

And what about all the little kiddies blown up by suicide bombings?

The suicide bombers set out deliberately to kill innocent people - standing a bus queue or drive an explosive laden car into a crowded market and detonate.

The pilots of F-6 fighter planes use their heads up displays to target specific objectives - a tank, a truck, a fortified position, a terrorist camp, the house of a terrorist leader, a terrorist headquarters.

The target is highlighted by a box a continuously computed impact point is calculated by the aircraft computer and a bomb fall line is created. When the CCIP rising along the bomb fall line and over laps with the target box the pilot can press the bomb release.

Usually a bomb activates control fins which control its flight into the target. A relay system is used between the fighter and an AWACS plane to "paint" the target and guide the bomb into the target. The bomb has its own intelligent computer brain that operates its control fins and corrects its course.

Modern bombs dropped by military aircraft can hit a target within a few metres.

Unfortunately many terrorist and military targets are situated in civilians areas - an accurate bomb will destroy a tank, a truck, the house of a terrorist etc etc but the bomb blast may also kill and injure civilians with fragments or the blast wave.

The Israelis and the US military try to minimise the civilian casualties which result from operations in urban areas.

Suicide bombers do not seek to do so. They seek to create as much carnage as possible in order to create as much terror as possible.

How you can sympathise with Al-Qaeda and Hamas who use suicide bombings against innocents and feel such hatred for the militaries of free nations like the US and Israel who are fighting barbarian Islamic fanatics is really sickening.

author by Feyadeenpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 09:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thanks for that little exercise in fiction, Garry. Back here in the real world, neither Julia nor any of the other contributors to this thread that you attack have any sympathy for Al-Qaeda. Your claim that they do is what we call a "lie". A "lie" is also the best way of describing your claim that US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and Israeli forces in the occupied territories and Lebanon take all due care to avoid killing civilians. To take one obvious example, it was abundantly clear during the attack on Lebanon last summer that Israeli forces deliberately targeted Lebanese civilians to spread terror among the population. This was explicitly stated by Israeli politicians, soldiers and media commentators, who hammered home the message that it was necessary to punish civilians for the actions of Hezbullah. They naively believed that this would make the people of Lebanon turn against Hezbullah, in fact it rallied support for the movement as anyone with sense would have expected. In Iraq and Afghanistan, there have been countless examples of US attacks on civilian targets, some in the last few weeks.

author by Edward Horganpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Tragedy was narrowly averted at Salthill on Sunday 24 June 2007 when an RAF helicopter door fell into the crowd of voyeuristic onlookers watching war planes at the Galway airshow. Innocent children in Iraq and Afghanistan have not been so lucky. We don’t know just how many children have been killed by US and British warplanes, in these two wars over the past six years, but we do know that approximately 262,000 children had died directly or indirectly (Lancet Report) due to the war in Iraq alone. We know Ali Abbas who lost both hands when a U S Bomb fell on his home killed his pregnant mother, three siblings, and 14 other relatives. We do know that in Dec 2003 15 children were killed in south Afghanistan in two separate bombings involving US A10 warplanes. We do know that last week, on 18 June, 7 children were killed in Afghanistan also by bombs dropped by US warplanes. The latest such casualties were on 22 June when 10 year old Fatima Satar and her 9 year old sister Najeba were killed along with about 45 other villagers were killed when a US A10 Thuderbold aircraft bombed a house where a wedding was being celebrated. Several such wedding parties have been bombed by the US airforce and dozens of civilians have been killed also when mosques were deliberately targeted.
Ireland has been complicit in all these killings because of the abuse of Shannon airport and Irish airspace.
Many of the warplanes involved in the Galway war-show were based at Shannon for several days. A small protest was held by peace activists at Shannon on Saturday 23 June.
At one point panic ensued for a while as gardai, led by Inspector Clueso, carried out a frenzied search, not of CIA or US military aircraft, but of Shannon airport, looking for two missing peace activists, Conor Cregan and Edward Horgan, who were enjoying a peaceful lunch at the Shannon war-port. Other Anti War Ireland peace activists from Cork and Dublin distributed flower petals to airport customers in memory of children killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

However, the most cynical and outrageous event of the weekend occurred at a meeting of underage GAA players in Limerick on Sat morning 23 June 2007. An Piarsaigh GAA, club, according to their website, invited about 50 young boys, aged from five years old to ten years old to a meeting at the club under the guise that the US Ambassador was to visit “the club next Saturday morning, 23rd June to view the work we are doing with underage hurlers”. However, they were also “entertained” by a US air-force war-plane pilot Major Rob Skelton, presumably as an example of the sort of leadership to which these boys should aspire. It was one of the most cynical and exploitative examples of recruitment and propaganda that I have ever come across. One little five year old, asked Major Skelton, whether he had ever shot anyone dead. The answer he got was “not recently, little boy”.
I wish, I was making this up.
The peace and neutrality alliance will be lodging an official complaint with the President of the GAA, and with the US Ambassador, and with the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs.

People who enjoy airshows like the one in Galway are the equivalent of people who arrive at the scene of a serious road accident and take pleasure at viewing the dead and injured on the roadside. The RTE 9 pm news emphasised the value of this airshow to the Galway business community, and said it was worth over one million Euro. The pollution alone caused by the aircraft taking part in this disgraceful show caused far more that one millions euro worth of damage to the global environment.
The Green Party of which I am a member are now complicit in such outrageous behaviour and are also complicit in the most recent deaths of children in Afghanistan.
Our many words have been ignored over the past 6 years. It is now time to follow these words with peace actions that will remove US troops and US war-planes out of Shannon and out of Ireland
Edward Horgan

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/83168
author by Great Timepublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

70 to 90 thousand people at Galway Airshow admiring "death machines" Vs 300 odd malcontents,American haters,and general crackpots..Guess the public have spoken as to what they prefer to watch. Game set and match.
Go home ,we will do it all again next year.

author by RogerCpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 14:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Gary.
During the Iraq invasion, when the coalition had inteligence that Saddam MIGHT be in a residential area of Bagdhad. They carpet bombed the entire area with 1000lb bombs. (Try and imagine that where you live)
At the present time many US politicians are advocating bombing Iranian cities because they aren't falling into line when the "Master speaks"
The "Terrorist" don't have F-16s or Cruise missiles so they use what they have. I'm not justifying either course of action, but let's not get miss the point here as no one can take the moral highground.

author by realistpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 14:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Republican Sinn Féin...

A small group of people so far up their own arse that they think they know how the rest of us feel.

I'm glad we welcomed brave pilots who are out there risking their lives for western civilisation, and curbing islamic extremism.

author by Mikepublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 16:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Western civilisation against islamic extremism? Islam and western civilisation are nowhere near the heart of this issue, what the air show is, is a display by the world powers of the machinery they have at their disposal in their own Jihad against the rest of the world that presents a challenge to their hegemony.

Western "Civilisation" as you call it, and Islamic Extremism hold little interest to those who run the militaristic cabal of western nations that are a part of this air show.

author by Feyadeenpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 16:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"I'm glad we welcomed brave pilots who are out there risking their lives for western civilisation, and curbing islamic extremism."

That's good for a chuckle, thanks! You're right, "western civilisation" for most of the world's population has taken the form of murderous colonial occupations involving massive bloodshed and contempt for the lives of people with different skin colours, so any pilot serving in Iraq could proudly claim to be defending western civilisation alright.

author by Jasperpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 16:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

There's a vast difference between people admiring the machinery of the various aircraft and somehow supporting the war.

They are beautiful machines and if you cannot separate their capabilities with what they're being used for in places like Iraq, then you're just being stupid.

It's like saying that having anything to do with atomic physics is agreeing with nuclear weaponry.

You're just ignoring a wide array of the positive aspects as opposed to how people choose to use them.

author by TD - IPSCpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 16:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

One.

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author by Jimbobpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 17:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

JASPER - "There's a vast difference between people admiring the machinery of the various aircraft and somehow supporting the war."

It's brainwashing. It's creating the association of bombers with glory and ignoring the reality of what they do. the idea being to foster the type of mental disassociation, that your comment is a prime example of.

"They are beautiful machines and if you cannot separate their capabilities with what they're being used for in places like Iraq, then you're just being stupid."

What they are used for in Iraq, is their main capability. These things are not designed, funded simply to do neat tricks. They are WEAPONS DELIVERY PLATFORMS, painted and covered in fake glory. Designed to kill people, destroy property, from a height. As Eisenhower said, "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. "

Jasper -"It's like saying that having anything to do with atomic physics is agreeing with nuclear weaponry."

Jimbob -Not at all, some atomic physics is theoretical, other bits are electricity generation, just like some aircraft are for non-war purposes, like the Air Sea Rescue guys, or the passenger aircraft... but THESE aircraft were military aircraft, and some of them WERE used in Iraq. It's not a tenuous link...

JASPER : "You're just ignoring a wide array of the positive aspects as opposed to how people choose to use them."

Jimbob -
And what, exactly is the positive aspect of spending millions on a single F-16?

author by MichaelY - iawm/ipscpublication date Mon Jun 25, 2007 17:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"They are beautiful machines and if you cannot separate their capabilities with what they're being used for in places like Iraq, then you're just being stupid" says Jasper above.

Can you please consider that the very same argument, in fact the very same words, are used by the extremely powerful gun lobby in the US against all those who argue that the legal situation with guns in the country and their relatively easy access is creating conditions where hundreds and thousands of people are killed every year. As for stupidity, Jasper, that's, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder!!

It was the protest organised by the Galway Anti War Alliance that was beautiful yesterday....well done lads and lassies. Continue your good work.

author by Jasperpublication date Tue Jun 26, 2007 08:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Can you please consider that the very same argument, in fact the very same words, are used by the extremely powerful gun lobby in the US against all those who argue that the legal situation with guns in the country and their relatively easy access is creating conditions where hundreds and thousands of people are killed every year. As for stupidity, Jasper, that's, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder!!"

That's a poor argument since there's a vast difference between a gun, no matter what one you talk about, and a piece of engineering such was on view at the show. Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and though you may not like them, many people do and are able to differentiate between the feat of engineering and the aesthetics on one side and their use by people as a means of killing on the other.

Also, you undo your argument with the gun analogy by stating that its the ease of access etc that creates a situation for such a level of gun crime....and not that guns exist.

author by Juliapublication date Tue Jun 26, 2007 09:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"That's a poor argument since there's a vast difference between a gun, no matter what one you talk about, and a piece of engineering such was on view at the show." - Jasper

The A-10s, also present, are basically a huge gun with wings. A gun that fires depleted uranium,
These aircraft are tools used in a crime. By feting the pilots and the aircraft here, the message that the victims get is that we ignore their plight, and identify ourselves with the attackers, invaders and occupiers who have killed, maimed and poisoned their country. You think they will accept your poor attempt to absolve the country from shame for giving a welcome to machines of mass destruction?

Should we invite Hamas to display their improvised explosives technology? Just to appreciate it from a technological point of view of course, not to be extending any kind of a welcome to them... I'm sure the Israelis would understand that, and take no offense whatsoever.

author by Jasperpublication date Tue Jun 26, 2007 16:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Should we invite Hamas to display their improvised explosives technology? Just to appreciate it from a technological point of view of course, not to be extending any kind of a welcome to them... I'm sure the Israelis would understand that, and take no offense whatsoever."

The Israelis would take offence at the crude manner in which their people are being killed. At which point they'd fire up the A-10s

author by Jimbobpublication date Tue Jun 26, 2007 16:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Israelis would take offence at the crude manner in which their people are being killed. At which point they'd fire up the A-10s - Jasper

Sayeth Jimbob: -
Ah yes, and a hail of depleted uranium bullets is not at all crude? Nor, apparently is having your family incinerated or shredded by shrapnel from a $100,000 bunker buster missile entering a civilian air raid shelter. that's highly sophisticated death, that is... can you load that up on Youtube for me? I'm sure it would be regarded differently from Al Qaeda suicide bomber videos, after all, tbey use such cheap weapons to kill innocent people.

I'm not sure who, how or why the previous comments got deleted, but your hypocrisy was well exposed there for all to see.

Should the Enola Gay be welcomed back over Hiroshima for a vintage air show? Would the Japanese ignore it's purpose and simply admire the shiny well designed piece of engineering?

author by Jasperpublication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 08:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The Israelis would take offence at the crude manner in which their people are being killed. At which point they'd fire up the A-10s - Jasper

Sayeth Jimbob: -
Ah yes, and a hail of depleted uranium bullets is not at all crude? Nor, apparently is having your family incinerated or shredded by shrapnel from a $100,000 bunker buster missile entering a civilian air raid shelter. that's highly sophisticated death, that is... can you load that up on Youtube for me? I'm sure it would be regarded differently from Al Qaeda suicide bomber videos, after all, tbey use such cheap weapons to kill innocent people.

I'm not sure who, how or why the previous comments got deleted, but your hypocrisy was well exposed there for all to see.

Should the Enola Gay be welcomed back over Hiroshima for a vintage air show? Would the Japanese ignore it's purpose and simply admire the shiny well designed piece of engineering?"

It was called being facetious, Jimbob.

Yet still, you're missing my point.

I'm not suggesting that nuclear weaponry should necessarily be admired (besides, the 'Fat Man' wasn't particularly clever). My point was that should anything related to nuclear physics be condemned as murderous since nuclear physics spawned the nuclear bomb?

author by Jimbob.publication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 09:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'm missing your point? Wasn't it addressed a few points up?

Jimbob -Not at all, some atomic physics is theoretical, other bits are electricity generation, just like some aircraft are for non-war purposes, like the Air Sea Rescue guys, or the passenger aircraft... but THESE aircraft were military aircraft, and some of them WERE used in Iraq. It's not a tenuous link...

I guess somethings aren't in your field of vision... like the plight of victims of aerial bombardment. Now, seeing as things need to be repeated for you... my point clearly was this...

Should the Enola Gay be welcomed back over Hiroshima for a vintage air show? Would the Japanese ignore it's purpose and simply admire the shiny well designed piece of engineering?"

You've managed to avoid answering that one when it was originally posted (and deleted) and just a while ago. Third time's a charm perhaps?

author by Jasperpublication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Actually, you didn't address the point. Or rather poorly if that's what you attempted to do.

Anyhoo, when was Ireland bombed by any of the planes in question? Salthill hosting these planes is a far cry from Japan hosting the Enola Gay, n'est ce pas.

author by Jimbob.publication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Anyhoo, when was Ireland bombed by any of the planes in question? Salthill hosting these planes is a far cry from Japan hosting the Enola Gay, n'est ce pas."

So, now you've deviated from the separation of war from entertainment, and it's just 'it's okay cos they didn't bomb "us"... to hell with identifying with other people. That's hardly an Irish tradition (Trocaire?) The RAF doesn't represent a country that occupied Ireland, "non"? (If' we're being French all of a sudden)

If they have competition for least talented troll... you'll get my vote.

author by Jasperpublication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 14:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Still being melodramatic, Priscilla. To align Ireland and the presence of planes being used in a war elsewhere is a far cry from being Japanese and having the plane that dropped a bomb that killed hundreds of thousands of your countrymen.

Would you feel the same if the family member of a stranger halfway across the world was murdered as you would if one of your own family members was murdered?

author by Jimbob.publication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 14:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Jasper did spew forth thus:
Would you feel the same if the family member of a stranger halfway across the world was murdered as you would if one of your own family members was murdered?

and Jimbob did reply:

Obviously not. But, I wouldn't pretend that it's a lesser crime because it wasn't my family. I think we've finally gotten to the nub of your thinking. I didn't personally know anybody who died in 9/11 or Iraq. But do I dismiss their deaths? Nope.

author by Jasperpublication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 15:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I never said neither was a lesser crime.

Just that comparing the level of outrage a Japanese might feel to that which we're supposed to feel here on the back of the Airshow is just a little bit stupid.

author by Jimbobpublication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 15:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

from his original position:
They are beautiful machines and if you cannot separate their capabilities with what they're being used for in places like Iraq, then you're just being stupid.

to, basically putting the argument that we shouldn't be as angry about it as the victims surviving relatives and friends are.

Actually, we should. We wouldn't feel the same sense of loss, but we should have the same sense of wrong, and rage.

Ah, Jasper, we'll make an activist out of you yet.

author by paul o toolepublication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 17:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A gun is a harmless object taken by itself. In the wrong hands it becomes a deadly weapon. When people draw distinctions between 'beautiful machines' and their role in Iraq then it is they are being stupid.
G.W. Bush, the worlds greatest draft-dodging coward in charge of the worlds only super-power's military-theres your connection. Oh , and his poodle's Blair and Bertie.

author by Yawning.....publication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 20:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well yes a world without warplanes would be "nice". At least it would until a few bloodthirsty warlords decided to take over their locality with impunity from outside interference. Ya know, like they did in Bosnia and Kosovo and many other places. Oh no, scrub that. Didn't the Great Satan's Thunderbirds dislodge the Christian Serbs from Kosovo thus liberating the Muslim population from a vicious oppression. Nasty ol warplanes, huh?

author by hecklebaumpublication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 21:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Really?

And what did the warlords use? Rocks?

And does the US of A only sell its fighter jets to nice countries that don't oppress people? Another purpose of airshows, thus far not mentioned, is to advertise the hardware. The US sells these machines to lovely democratic places like ... Saudi Arabia. They supplied IRAN with weapons, and IRAQ with weapons. They are the world's biggest exporter of weapons and decency doesn't come into it. So, play that heroic fantasy for me again... the good guys, right? Arming the world... making money off it, sending other peoples kids to die and kill, while they get deferments, go AWOL, get filthy stinking rich.
Ditto Britain, Russia, China, France, etc.... but the USA is no.1 by a long shot , followed not even close by the UK.

A world without these weapons is a world without war. Hitler, Saddam, Pol Pot, would have had to kill people with rocks and sticks. Hitler would have killed maybe 1 or 2 jews before they beat the crap out of him. By the way, what famous Americans helped finance the nazis? There's a pop quiz for ya... Do you know or do ya just yawn?

And lets not pretend that the airforce didn't cause widespread civilian destruction in their interventions. Save the fantasies for Top Gun, Heartbreak Ridge, Blackhawk Down, and that other Hollywood whitewash stuff. The best that can be said for it, is that it's slicker than the stuff the nazis and commies churned out.

author by A10publication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 22:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I doubt very much that any countries were at Galway to view their prospective defence purchases.Nor do they bother attending airshows.Buying a jet fighter is not like buying a car with all the doodads. If a country wants to purchase somthing like that either they go to the US,UK or Russia and view it in action on a military trange or invite the prospective bidders to theirs to demonstrate it.
OH BTW you are WRONG on the Military exports it is CHINA nowadays.But hey they are good red socialists,so lets not mention the war shall we??
Seeing that I assume you are pretending to be Jewish with that name?You forgot that the bad ol USA supplies Isreal as well with weaponary to blast Palestinian people ,which without it Isreal would be a bad memory in the Middle east. Hitler never killed any Jews personally and your laughable notion that aworld war without modern weapons would never happen.You obviously never read much military history.
And quit with the Zionist propaganda about the Bushes helping the Nazis etc.It is now a YAWN.You might as well blame IBM,the Rockerfellas and Rothschilds as well.Oh lets not forget the Masons as well and other conspircy nutbar theories.
Hmm the Isreali airforce isnt that hot either considering that it has a few butcheries under its belt as well.Shalom.

author by hecklebaum.publication date Wed Jun 27, 2007 23:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I doubt very much that any countries were at Galway to view their prospective defence purchases.

OH BTW you are WRONG on the Military exports it is CHINA nowadays.But hey they are good red socialists,so lets not mention the war shall we??

Why not? I challenge you to find a shred of support I have for the Chinese government? Did I miss something. Were the Chinese military at Salthill? If they were, I apologise for not commenting on it earlier.

A10 - Seeing that I assume you are pretending to be Jewish with that name?You forgot that the bad ol USA supplies Isreal as well with weaponary to blast Palestinian people ,which without it Isreal would be a bad memory in the Middle east.

HB -You equate being Jewish with unquestioning support for the Israelis? Do I really need to point out the flaw in that generalisation?

A10 - Hitler never killed any Jews personally

HB - Did I say he did? but he WOULD HAVE TO kill them personally if he hadn't been supplied up to the eyeballs with modern technology to kill and coerce others to kill for him. That was my point. If we don't arm nutters, than they have to try kill millions the old fashioned way, and they won't get very far these days.

A10 - and your laughable notion that aworld war without modern weapons would never happen.You obviously never read much military history.

HB - Even a farmer with a scythe can mount a defence to a Roman centurion amigo... but he can do nothing against an F-16, a Mig, or a nuke.

A10 - And quit with the Zionist propaganda about the Bushes helping the Nazis etc.It is now a YAWN.You might as well blame IBM,the Rockerfellas and Rothschilds as well.Oh lets not forget the Masons as well and other conspircy nutbar theories.

HB - Masons??? You've lost me there. I didn't mention Masons or the tooth fairy.
And what part of it is propoganda? Did Prescott and Sam Bush not do time for doing business with the Nazis?

A10 - Hmm the Isreali airforce isnt that hot either considering that it has a few butcheries under its belt as well.Shalom.

HB - You won't hear me disagree on that point, so ??????

author by ..publication date Thu Jun 28, 2007 00:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

OH BTW you are WRONG on the Military exports it is CHINA nowadays.

I think, A10 that you are wrong.

China is the biggest IMPORTER of arms.

Here is a list of the 10 largest arms exporting countries in terms of billions of dollars in sales.
1. USA: 7.9
2. Russia: 6.7
3. Germany: 3.9
4. France: 1.6
5. Britain: 1.1
6. Netherlands: 1.5
7. Italy: 0.9
8. China: 0.6
9. Sweden: 0.5
10. Israel: 0.2

Related Link: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2605823,00.html
author by A10publication date Thu Jun 28, 2007 13:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Strawman arguement on China support.,strawman arguement on Jewish not supporting Isreal,obviously not very religious or a sabra.

Hitler and modern technology.At the time it was all German made.Germany was arms embargoed
Nutters will arm themselves with or without anyones help.Pity he didnt hold onto Einstein and a few other good German Jews who were loyal to Germany.World would be really different now.

Still ignorant of military history.First it is farmers and sythes against roman leigonarries.
Which never worked,because it bcame down as to who had better disipline and tactics.Your farmers would have been riddled by Roman bowmen,before they could have gotton anywhere near the leigonare,amigo!
Next it is farmers against modern military machines.Which centuary are you on about.?News for you ,bar the most primitive tribe in the rainforests,near enough everyone in a society on this planet can access some type of firearm,and does as well.

Picking the point on the Masons and not answering the point about the Jewish complott in their own downfall into the holocaust.Did Sam Bush and Prescott do time?I dunno.did John Kennedy do time for booze running in prohibition?Did bill Klinton do time for smoking pot? Your Point being????

...
It fails to mention that China is the greatest UN arms embargo breaking country.Want an AK talk to China these days.

author by check your facts A10publication date Thu Jun 28, 2007 14:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A10 have you ever heard of NETUREI KARTA or Ture TorahJews against Zionism.

Not all Jews support Israel so dont say non religious jews dont support Israel

Also for your info many "Sabras" -native born Israeli Jews- do not support its policies look at B'Tselem, ICAD, Women in Black

get your facts right A10

author by Seutoniuspublication date Thu Jun 28, 2007 15:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ireland doesn't do so badly when it comes to selling components manufactured here for possible military use. See The Phoenix, current issue, and references to the Paris Airshow.

author by Fred Johnstonpublication date Thu Jun 28, 2007 15:54author email sylfredcar at iolfree dot ieauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

It would appear that the organisers of the Salthill Airshow are reconsidering, for financial reasons - not because of injuries to spectators, of course - the future of the show. So they should. But a subtle change has occurred in Galway in opinion towards the show, reflected in articles in the current Galway Advertiser freebie news-sheet, erstwhile a solid supporter, nay, sponsor. And other media, too. There seems to be a subtle clawing-back, a crab-like scuttling out of sight. Numbers at the show this year were around 60/65,000 - what happened to the often-repeated projection of 200,000? Anti-militarisation opinions seem to have seeped through. The show is suddenly seen for what it is and has the potential - like the Paris Airshow - to become; a trading ground for people 'interested' in arms and new weaponry. The US are only too glad to make use of it.

author by Jimbob,publication date Thu Jun 28, 2007 16:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors


A-10 ----Picking the point on the Masons and not answering the point about the Jewish complott in their own downfall into the holocaust.

You made a point about that? Where?

A10 - Next it is farmers against modern military machines.Which centuary are you on about

JB - How about this one? modern military weapons are used against farmers. Rural Colombia for example. But you know it was a hypothethical point. I don't expect the Amish to be confronted by the US Marines anytime soon.

A-10 -----Did Sam Bush and Prescott do time?I dunno.

You seemed to dismiss it as propoganda, and now you don't know. They did time. The didn't provide weapons to Hitler. They were bankers. They provided the money for the weapons.

A-10 ----- did John Kennedy do time for booze running in prohibition?Did bill Klinton do time for smoking pot? Your Point being????

Are you annoyed I didn't pick on a Democrat or something? I don't buy into that fake choice either.

author by A10publication date Thu Jun 28, 2007 23:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hecklebaum.
So you have groups that dont agree with Isreal..We have them too So what??? A non religious Jew ..whats that???Either you are Jewish/Christian or whatever or not!!! You sound like one confused person.And what facts should I get right??
Fred
50 ,000 to how many 200 anti American protestors??? I think the figures say who the public support.
Better luck next year.Mind you those Arabs and other countriesdefence ministers might show up to buy their new planes next yearat this well kept secret air show.Keep watching the skies.

Jbob
Go back and read my post again,if you cant find it.
Now we are argueing hypothetical points??Well then this is pointless and going OT.Plus farmers nowadays in places like ghanistan or Iraq can manage pretty well in stopping some modern weaponary.Actually the Vietnamese farmers were damn good at it.So dont cherry pick your locations.

No not annoyed that you didnt pick a democrat,would be quite amazed if you did actually as they are really not as "bad" as the evil republicans are they in your eyes???Just pointing out a minor inconvient fact that wether democratic or republican they will carry out foreign policy that will displease your kind of people irrespective,but you will stay sthumm if they are democrat more than likely.Called being a hyprocrite!

No ididnt dismiss it as propaganda.Just genuinely didnt know or really care actually,as I have more of a life to get on with,my own ,than worry and spit bile about on the net,about somthing I cant change and is ancient history of total irrevelance.I am not a total obsessive about Bush and all sort of ills his family is supposed to have inflicted on humanity .From mass genocide to baldness.Who cares???Oh yes,people like you do!!Maybe if you REALLY want to make a difference,I would suggest a good high power rifle and a high building around somwhere where your pet hate might appear.LOL

Well the Rotschilds also helped out the Nazis ,so did the Swiss.Shall we bang them up as well for helping Hitler??Shall we quit wearing Hugo Boss as they designed the SS officer uniform?? Quit driving VW,as they built armourd vechicles for the Nazis as well as the fav hippie wagon of the 60s???
Everyone is guilty to a greater or lesser degree even today.Just some of us have accepted that there isnt much you can change in this world.Basically we grew up.

If you were'nt a rebel at 25,you had no passion.If you are still one at 45,you are an embarrasment.

author by Jimbob.publication date Fri Jun 29, 2007 00:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"No not annoyed that you didnt pick a democrat,would be quite amazed if you did actually as they are really not as "bad" as the evil republicans are they in your eyes???Just pointing out a minor inconvient fact that wether democratic or republican they will carry out foreign policy that will displease your kind of people irrespective,but you will stay sthumm if they are democrat more than likely.Called being a hyprocrite!"

Jimbob.
Okay, you've run out of tactics have you? You try paint someone as a hypocrite, by pointing out that they didn't complain about the Chinese , the Democrats or whoever else wasn't directly mentioned (only cos the topic didn't include them, the Prez who commands the US military we see at SNN and Salthill is not a Chinaman or a Democrat) . And then make unfounded statements "you seem like the type who..." in a sad attempt to discredit rather than debate.

I mean, I assume that's a tactic, and you're not dumb cos your statement -
"but you will stay sthumm if they are democrat more than likely." was posted AFTER the comment
"Are you annoyed I didn't pick on a Democrat or something? I don't buy into that fake choice either." clearly showing I don't see Republican v Democrat as a meaningful choice in US policy.
So did you not understand it, or choose to ignore it because it cut the legs out from your argument?
You'd love me to be a commie loving, Clinton loving liberal etc, etc, so you could "point out the inconvenient fact" ... unfortunately for you, I'd already given my position.

Do you have any NEW tactics? Something to keep you interesting? Cos I'm starting to lose interest in your writing.

Debate me on this then. "Was the quality of trolls better on indymedia before, or am I just being nostalgic?"

Catch you later.

author by A10publication date Fri Jun 29, 2007 00:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sorry,was just replying to your little rant on the other side.Be nice if the Indymedia would combine these threads.
I think YOU are running of ideas. I bore you, you now allude to trolling,sounds to me like somone who is losing their arguement. Well,considering that the Dems Chinese,etc all inhabit this planet they are indirectly concerned,and they sure havent been sitting idly by in world politics either.

It doesnt cut the legs out of anything except in your opinion,which along with mine I dont think anyone gives two hoots about anyway.What is your position?Apart from major chip on my shoulder,hate everything the US stands for???
Hey if the shoe fits and you are what you describe you are fine by me.I dont think you are a republican tho!
Hate to say this Jimbob,but you are falling into the old lawyer trap.
Weak on law argue the facts.Weak on facts argue the law,weak on both attack your opponent personally.Quite a common tactic on indymedia.
Ciao

author by ..publication date Fri Jun 29, 2007 00:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Not a new tactic of course, but one I neglected to comment on.

A-10 "Everyone is guilty to a greater or lesser degree even today.Just some of us have accepted that there isnt much you can change in this world.Basically we grew up."

Ah, the nihilistic troll. 'You guys should stop resisiting, cos it's juvenile and futile.' Grow up, conform, stop trying to change an unjust world.
You say that you're American, and accuse activists of being anti-American. Well whose point of view is closer to these great Americans then?

"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" Thomas Paine

"Even when pressed by the demands of inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war. Nor does the human spirit move without great difficulty against all the apathy of conformist thought within one's own bosom and in the surrounding world. Moreover when the issues at hand seem as perplexed as they often do in the case of this dreadful conflict we are always on the verge of being mesmerized by uncertainty; but we must move on." Martin Luther King.

To paraphrase King, and to reply to your "embarrasing 45 yr old rebel" remark...
It's not embarrasing to refuse to comform to something that no moral person should conform to.

"I never intend to adjust myself to the tragic effects of the methods of physical violence and to tragic militarism. I call upon you to be maladjusted to such things." rip MLK. They killed the man, but not the idea.

author by A10publication date Fri Jun 29, 2007 01:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

For those inspiring words from Doctor King.Your point being?that all you can do is quote great people and cant come up with anthing better than calling people trolls when you cant come up with a better arguement???
NEXT

author by Jimbobpublication date Fri Jun 29, 2007 01:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Your point being?"

uh, that what you call growing up, is what he would call adjusting to injustice.
That the people you call anti-American, take inspiration from real Americans, not from political leaders who behave more like the monarchs we still haven't got rid of here in Europe.

Was that not obvious?

author by I'mSoBoredOfTheUSApublication date Fri Jun 29, 2007 04:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

so tell me A10, do you approve of all previous and current (and intended!) US incursions into other countries unquestioningly or are there ANY you do/did not approve of? If so, could you tell me which ones you do/did not approve of and why.

And did/do you approve of these incursions for the reasons given by your administration or did you rationalise your own?

If you did not agree with the reasons given, then do you consider lying to the american public justified?

If you did agree with all their reasons then are you suffering from any psychiatric disorder we should know about?

did/do you think the civilian suffering and deaths justified all these incursions?

Here is a list to help refresh your memory

http://www.lossless-audio.com/usa/index6.php

author by Salthill residentpublication date Sun Jul 01, 2007 09:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As a Salthill resident I had to put up once again with the sonic booms of these war machines and the crowds of gawkers on the promenande on an afternoon when I'd usually go for a peaceful walk down by the seaside. This madness has to stop and I applaud the anti-war protesters for their stance.

author by Furry Mikepublication date Sun Jul 01, 2007 14:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So that the crowds will be big, and they can say that everyone on the strand is attending.
I'm more impressed with the old prop planes doing their acrobatics, than with the loud fly-by-wire F16s.
And the prop planes don't come screaming over anyones house. Ah, well, spectacle and distraction.

author by What the huh?publication date Sat Jul 07, 2007 13:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

(Posters beleifs:
1. Specific Airshow good
2. Killing bad
3. No such thing as brainwashing. It's called influenceing)

I can't make head nor tails of the arguments above.

As an Airshow attendee I want to congratulate the GAAW for their proper approach to protesting the airshow. Those who wished to oppose the airshow got their oppertunity to show their greivances, those who wanted to watch the show got to do so without incident, and most important of all, considering how most of the people who would have walked to the airshow would have had to pass the GAAW event, the people had a choice of attending that event and being convinced not to attend the airshow.

You gave people a choice, and did not interfere with those who hold a different view from yourselves. Good job and congratulations, you have held yourselves well this year.

author by roosterpublication date Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

when doors fall off helicopters there will be less casualties or none at all.

author by ;-)publication date Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

you've got more chance of re-using your door if it falls off onto soft sandy beaches - just give it a brush and polish -remove any hair of passerby Galwegians and bingo. But if it falls onto hard tarmac or concrete it's a real write off & her majesty has to buy a new one.

author by Salthill residentpublication date Sun Jul 08, 2007 18:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The next time I'll make a point of being well out of town rather than suffer the sonic booms of these war machines and having my neighbourhood infested by a shower of rictus ridden gawkers. Like rabbits stunned by the headlights of a car on a dark night they were. My congratulations to Fred Johnstone and Magaretta D'arcy et al for having the spunk to stage a protest.

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