Anyone know what happened to the bin tax motion at the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis

by John McDermott - removefiannafail Sun Mar 13, 2005 04:04 jmcd444 at yahoo dot com Spain

Was not Mary Lou on a recent anti bin tax demo? so can we presume they are as one on this important issue which affects many of their supporters in the larger cities,and elsewhere.?

by Stephen Lewis - Irish Socialist Network (personel capacity) Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:28

Motion 58:
Regulation of prices in relation to service charges:

This Ard Fheis notes that, while Sinn Fein is totally opposed to the introduction of bin charges, if the Dublin government proceeds with its planned pay and weigh system, we are calling for a regulatory price to be set.This would mean an end to the current free for all system whereby householders in rural areas are left in the hands of private operators.

Bobby Sands Cumann, Louth.

From reading this motion it seems that not all members of Sinn Fein are opposed to the bin tax, as this motion clearly accepts that notion of its introduction and goes further and is willing to allow a price to be fixed in relation to its introduction.

by John McDermott - www.soldiersofdestiny.org Sun Mar 13, 2005 13:29 jmcd44 at yahoo dot com Spain

The people and Joe Higgins ,(& Mary Lou?)will no doubt be asking all those independents and party candidates where they stand and how they will vote when elected.
There are only three certainties in the world of politics :defeat,taxes, and betrayal.
Once they are in(90% of them) they kiss their supporters goodbye.!
Until next election time.
5 years often softens bad memories.

by Mike Novack Sun Mar 13, 2005 13:36

"Reiterates Sinn Féin’s commitment to the principle of public provision of essential
services, to be paid for by means of a progressive system of taxation. In accordance
with this principle, it restates its opposition to domestic service charges in any form."

OK, that's a clear statement of the "red" position. But except for the fact that the "reds" wish to pretend that the environmental crisis isn't real (just an artifact of capitalism -- got to concentrate on what is important) there might be possible some sort of compromise here. The "green" position is of course that the people who actually end up making the reuse, recycle, or pitch decision are the only ones whose behavior matters and incentives help with that.

Look -- this is only an idea, just a "proof of concept" presentation that a compromise would be POSSIBLE (you can then look for a BETTER version). How about a system where the progressive taxation is used to fund the overall waste disposal program but at the same time you have the "pay per throw" incentive.

The (progressibe) tax is collected (you decide the source) but instead of simply being used to fund waste collection directly is used to issue "vouchers" distributed per capita (or whatever you consider fairer) good for a bin. Allow people who find they can't be bothered to segregate out their recyclables or to compact their waste to buy more if they run out. Allow people who find they have bin vouchers left over at the end of the epriod to redeem them for cash.

What do you say? Do you think that both the "reds" and the "greens" could support that? If not, why not? I'd particuarly like to hear from "anti bin tax" people if they would find this objectionable what their reasons were >

by Helper Sun Mar 13, 2005 16:01

The motion was passed but it was amended so as to remove its teeth. The following part was deleted:

"Calls on Sinn Féin’s elected representatives to implement party policy by voting against any set of local authority estimates making provision for domestic service charges and mandates the Ard Chomhairle to take disciplinary action, up to and including expulsion, against any elected member who contravenes party policy by voting in favour of service charges."

This has the effect of allowing Sinn Fein Councillors to cut deals on councils which involve voting for estimates including the bin tax. In other words SF now have a policy of formally opposing the bin tax while being ready to indulge in what Gerry Adams called "pragmatic policies" while he was having his pleasant lunch at the Chamber of Commerce.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice Activist Sun Mar 13, 2005 21:21

The Bin Tax; the environment; privatisation; human nature, equity etc.

I found this site most interesting. We need to start thinking as individuals just what the Bin-Tax is about?

To me, I hadn't thought much about the issue until lately.

I grew up in Co. Meath in the 1960's and can remember well the problem with waste, the rats particularly. The bin (one's own) and the Co. Council collection system made a significant impact to a way of life.

Likewse, the City benefitted. It is always possible to find someone who can tell you what the reality was like, rich or poor backgrounds' of waste.

Then there are the illegal dumps. I recall helping out with locals on the road to Tara Hill a few years ago and you would not believe what people dump in the dark of night or in the light of day. Pure ignorance and selfishness is all I can say.

Now we have another mentality. It links to the old greed mindset and it is irrespective of class or creed. Disused quaries, ditches, beeches are the repositors of waste that means lucre/airgead. It is about 'getting away with something' and for some it makes them extremely wealthy punters in Ireland.

These people are responding to being charged for their rubbish.....This problem will only get worse.......the mentality is what is wrong and getting away with the risk and money is the priority.....

Why did all those environmental committees over the last number of years not use some common sense....In health, as we have now seen, common sense is lacking and sadly also the most basic is lacking in Environmenetal practicalities.

I walk down Wellington Road - the Georgian bequest of a road of elegance in architecture daily. This is Dublin 4.

Scattered are the blue bins with protection bars to stop excessive waste being dumped. These are obvious about their message but for those with the mentality of Greed, these bars are another part of the game of let's beat the system!!!!!! (In some parts, bins have been set on fire; labels removed; broken; etc).

People stuff black bag contents into these bins with the City Logo and leave them overflowing and waste blowing in the wind.

Recently, I have been surprised by the post therein discarded yet the revelations are shocking to say the least. The last one I picked up was for a Chauffeur company bill to someone in Meath - the extended limousine cost of euro$400.00.

Does anyone know if one can send samples of the correspondence to the Environment so that they can effect the penalty perhaps!!!

The roads around here are noted for their laneways, the houses known as Mews ......well these have become another dumping ground. The latest finding here is an in-date Dublin Magazine - 2 boxes just left there.

If this is to lie ahead, what can we expect with the privatisation issue. Those who have labels and numbers can have their rubbish collected and those who have not well just leave it to the Rat Population down-under would suggest to me a high level of irresponsible behaviour at a political level.

Sorry this is not good enough.

Can someone please explain why the bins have no mention of the obvious i.e. no household rubbish. Believe it or not; some people innocently place their daily waste therein but it is the other organised lout mentalities that dump waste in the country, at the beeches and now in our streets and bins, that must be tackled.

Sinn Fein: Waste is a critical issue to be dealt with. Waste; pollution; incinerators; the Corrib Shell Gas programme concerns public health issues. It is about a managed society.

Do people realise that in the early 19th century while still a colony, a French company was hired to Clean the streets of Dublin? Public health is essential.

by Jonah Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:07

The debate was one of the more controversial during the Ard Fheis.

On the one hand, people argued that voting to collapse the Council when the power to set the Estimates had been taken away from it was pointless and tied the hands of our councillors. If the Council set the rate for the Charges, then fair enough, vote against them and collapse the Councils if necessary but they don't, so allow leeway.

On the other hand people argued that it was a matter of principle that the charges be opposed and that by not voting against them we might undermine a possible future campaign against the introduction of water charges.

Helper is close to being accurate with what he says, the motion was amended more than that, but councillors were also instructed not to engage in supporting the Estimates without guidance from the national leadership on a case by case basis.

Personally, having had mixed feelings on it, the notion of voting to collapse the Council because of a charge the councillors can't set struck me as pointless. I think the campaign needs to look at developing a new strategy to deal with new circumstances. When your opponent changes the battlefield, there's no point continuing to fight an old battle.

by Michelle Clarke - Community Awareness Mon Mar 14, 2005 21:11

To the writer.

This is a good synopsis but lessons must be learned also.

I ask is the Bin Tax feasible or does it draw into the equation a new kind of let's beat the system mentality?

I wrote about Wellington Road yesterday. Today's news is that some undetected being chose the prominent nursery to defacate.

The children arrived a.m.with their parents to this unacceptable behaviour and a young woman on her knees with boiling water trying to clean and sterilise the area.

Why do we accept the behaviour.

Those magazines dumped are still on Clyde Lane.

This is about a Take Responsibility attitude....

Michelle Clarke

By the way; next time in a public park, just talk to the men responsible for the maintenance......you will learn a lot about people and what they expect others to tolerate......

Quotation that someone might like:

Gandhi
'You have to be the change, you want to see'