Accumulated pain; depression and suicide.

by Michelle - Social Justice Activist Sat Nov 27, 2004 22:07 michell33 at eircom dot net

I entered this article under the incorrect page.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Thu Dec 23, 2004 21:59

Almost one month later, I note nobody commented.....

This week we are awakened to news of a Suicide Pact - two young men have passed away and people remain bewildered as to why. Sadnesss pervades..........

Tonight we hear that inspite of all the extra Gardai provision and legislation, the first three weeks of December 2004 has resulted in twice the number dead in motor accidents than this time last year.

I have asked before and received no reply....I will ask again......

Why do we not link a proportion of RTA deaths with suicide? Other countries take account. It is time for people to start removing the blinkers and looking at the matter realistically.

Alienation is a word we ought to take account of seriously this Christmas time. A little thought; might result in a little more inclusion and who knows thereafter........

Hope: 'The Anchor of God'

Light the candle of HOPE (Anyone in need of peace, remember the Samaritans, Aware and others are there to Listen).


Look out also for elderly neighbours.

Best wishes



Michelle and Kevin

by pc Thu Dec 23, 2004 23:08

come back with some evidence and proposals althought its only a small part of the equation, I guess most people here don't bother with haggling over percentages...

the people to ask that specific question to would probably be the NSC, CSO, Dept of Transport, AA, what roads death/injuries ngos are there?

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Sun Dec 26, 2004 01:10

I hope you had a nice Christmas day.

I appreciate your recommendations and will search out the information in 2005 and hopefully reply back to Indymedia.

In the meantime, during this Happy time, remember for some it is an alone time and a time of despair.

Hold on and keep searching. Young people with new cars over Christmas and into the New Year, think about leaving the car at home and enjoying yourselves and hold on and when the situation changes, thoughts are also as likely to change and positively.......

Happy New Year pc and all.



Michelle Clarke

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Thu Dec 30, 2004 21:43

Christmas is over and the new year approaches.

I am providing a few words of comfort from a book by Marie Barrett, to people like me, who know what despair is about and those who have encountered the shock and pain of suicide.

The title: Hope in the face of Suicide by Marie Barrett. (This is a small booklet I purchased at the Veritas shop and that I often carry in my handbag on days when I need a bolster......)

'Are you tired?
Are you lonely?
Are you troubled or afraid?
Have you someone to talk to?
Did you sleep last night?
Are ou worried about today?

Marie Barrett assembled these lines - all I know is that I can empathise with each question and thankfully, these feelings relate to my past and I enjoyed this Christmas with my new partner Kevin.

Denial is a word we need to be more aware of. Denial can kill people, it cause others to refuse to embrace full recovery. There is the denial of trust, of truth, of love. There also is the denial of pain.

Denial seeps through families, companies, groups of people and can cause harm ..... in families where a suicide occurs, denial can be fostered to create the perfect picture but like a mirror that splinters so can be the outcome.

Perfection: This is a trait associated with success. We need to be careful in this regard.....I will take a few words from the booklet that may be of benefit.

'Don't burden your heart with perfection
Seek the balm 'to be weak'
Listen. Listen to your thoughts, your feelings
Seek help
Look for help. It is waiting
Suicide, of oneself, of another, can be avoided
Seek out. Speak.

Pain is real. Pain is healing.
Both are needed
To deny this to is to deny truth of oneself'

I can identify so well with the perfection and know that when one learns to lower ones own levels of perfection, there is a freedom to be gained.

When alienation takes over; and the body begins to close into itself and the mind is dark and dour......try to hold on.

The Samaritans are there; Aware; Mental Health Association; Grow and others. The people are trained to listen and to be heard breaks through the despair.

I take finally a meditation from the book.

'Let me sleep gently,
I cannot
I am still tired, God
Help me
I am trusting - a little
Help me find peace

Psalm 115
'I trusted, even when afflicted'


Another suggestion: Alcohol is a depressant. It lowers mood ultimately. The up is limited.

Prayer for Serenity
God grant me Serenity to accept the things I cannot change; COURAGE TO CHANGE THINGS I CAN and

THE WISDOM TO THE DIFFERENCE.


Happy New Year


Michelle

by hui Sat Jan 01, 2005 18:02

nuff said.

by Jack Russell - Social Justice, Please Sat Jan 01, 2005 21:57

I read your comment in relation to Michelle's comments on Accumulated Pain, Despair, Suicide.

Jack Russell is a little bit intrigued. You see 'hui' I am at the moment trying to figure out, as a mathematician, how Ms. Bleach could run a large company from her Waterford kitchen and probably the answer lies with Minister Mutton Pullen.

Now in your case, hui, please come down from whatever plannet you come from and explain to me how Marxism and Suicide go hand in hand.

Pythagoras does not solve this! So let's put some common sense into it. If you feel the Irish male is being discriminated against or bullied, tell your friends that Sr. Maguire, in Rathmines is the best option. If that does not work, there is a book I can highly recommend to you. The book is written by Professor Antony Clare and is appropriately called 'MEN IN CRISIS'.

Jack Russell (Neo Marxist)

by retrovi Sat Jan 01, 2005 22:31

”Now in your case, hui, please come down from whatever plannet you come from and explain to me how Marxism and Suicide go hand in hand”



When is the radical left ever going to take responsibly for the harm it does?

Mnnnnn……..probably never!

btw Romania under your man is a good example of -marxist- inspired suicide .

by Bernadette Sun Jan 02, 2005 02:49

What is all this nonsense about being abused? You, or anyone else are welcome to put forward your opinion provided you are not promoting racial hatred, holocaust denial and such like. But whatever your opinions you must be prepared to accept that other visitors to the site have a right to analyse your stated opinions and respond to them with their own opinions. If you don't like that then you should set up your own web site where you can say what you like without anybody contradicting you.
It would help your credibility if you were to put your opinions forward in a reasonably coherent manner, and try to back them up with some rational argument.

As for Europe being 'Marxist', now that has to be a joke. Unless you consider anything to the left of Ghenkis Khan as being 'leftist'.

As for men being discriminated against, that is nonsense. The real issue which should concern men is the almost compulsory machismo which is indoctrinated into them, and the effects that has on shaping, or more often mishaping, their lives. Perhaps we should look within that type of thinking to find the causes of male suicide.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics - Please Sun Apr 24, 2005 23:23

Perhaps the content of this site should come forward yet again.

The plight of suicide is stealing too many people and affecting the lives of too many and children too.

Why has society become so fast, so cold, so numbed, so lacking in a sense of community? Where is the watchful eye? Where is the acceptance of difference but with suffice common sense to know that something is 'not quite ok'.

I look to the face of a mother with her two children, Abby and Miakahla Grace. I look at the photo of her lovely daughter Abby (10 years old). There is a photo of her estranged husband Barry, but alas none of his son,(aged) 14 from another relationship.

It is hard to accept the word Despair but I want to assure people that severe depression is about despair; it it is about clinging on and that depression is about 'distorted thought' function.

For the young boy, the same age as my nephew, he has to learn to understand the pain of the loss as has Amy.....Let them not be forgotten. (Barnardos as far as I know provide guidance for children affected by suicide).

Social Services, health services, education services merit 'ruthless' attention. Our government gladly spend indiscriminately on expenses, on consultants, on PRO's; on people to personally groom them; on junkets abroad....

The time has come perhaps for Mr. Ahern to re-establish the old English working class Envelope approach to spending. Let it be equitable but let him not be scared to tax and particularly those earning in excess of Euros 100, re-introduce a form of Wealth tax and then we can aim to provide a 24 hour private primary care service to replace the Church Community and dispensary system that once existed. Private health care exists in England, Northern Ireland!!!; and the system in Italy is both free and efficient. Other countries likewise have an effective service.

There is a scale of life events and to me this young woman Sharon, only 28, had hit some of the top score crizes and with little formal support. Where are Psychologists? Where are the Occupation Therapists; where are the district nurses? What assistance will the remaining families have and particularly the son, daughter and of course husband. Ireland, in its services is smoothered by bureaucracy, lacks common sense and most of all an integrated system of communication.

Sharon's father saw that she was troubled but we must know by now that family aren't necessarily the best at handling these situations. The withdrawal; the inability to use the phone; the stress; the anxiety mixed in with the distorted thought left a woman in great personal pain with two children. It happens to others; some survive; others do not. Someone to just remind the person to phone Aware or the Samaritans.

Professor Fitzgerald of the Irish Association of Suicidology made a good point in the Independent. They sad death of Sharon, Abby and Mikala has attracted considerable attention and that it reiterated the 5 others who have recently died in Wexford to Suicide. Wexford is 8 points above the national average.

The questions remain:
Will local GP's introduce a free counselling service?

Will the Government seriously consider primary health care services.

As a person with depression; motivation can be a real issue. You won't use the phone; you won't ask for help; you are entitled to a medical card but the stupid rules and application forms are so complex you get lost in the mesh. Yet Minister Harney wants to make it more difficult for the like of me by those who can visit the GP only or those who can have GP and drugs. Does anyone grasp the confusion in such a transaction for a person depressed with Thought Distortion. Paying a doctor; going to A & E when you are in crisis does not seem to quite work that way. Remove the Barriers and the Stigma. People need to learn to listen not mimic, deride, slag. These situations are real.

I can only conclude by going to Jonathan Swift former dean of Trinity College and St. Patrick's in 1600 ?

Mr. Taoiseach and your Government

'Give vision to the Visionless'

Our Government have had the benefits based on economic foresight and the added benefits of the Euros 1.6 billion resulting from the various tribunals. The Government now faces into another large tranche of money by bank sold products with unclear 'messages' say re. inheritance.

by Jon Glackin - Street Seen Mon Apr 25, 2005 02:45

'If you're in emotional distress or at risk of suicide, Samaritans are there for you 24 hours a day. With Samaritans, you get the time and the space to find a way through.'
http://www.samaritans.org/

American site : 'Dedicated to the mission of reducing and eliminating suicide and suicide attempts through education, advocacy, and collaboration, some useful links and info here..
http://www.spsfv.org/index.htm

Another American site with some useful links:
http://griefnet.org/resources/suicide.html

by Kevin Walsh - Social Justice and Ethcis Mon Apr 25, 2005 14:43

I am moved by your article but suggest that the tax rate referred to as Euros 100, must be an error and be Euros 100,000

Today's news is alarming. To hear my old Alma Mater UCD has only two and part support counsellors thus a long waiting list is not acceptable.

Given the results of the survey and the above average alcohol reliance, secrecy relating to depression, and sexual partners aspect.....

Where are our Mentors? What outcome can we expect? Where are the Philosophers and thinkers?


KW

Aware
Mental Health Alliance
Grow
Samaritans
.......people are there. The problem is when in time of fear, how to make connection. Denial and stigma is too prevalent.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Apr 26, 2005 22:52

Bacon wrote that 'Reading maketh the full man'

Reading as a past-time is on the descent, however, a book can be a life time friend particularly when you annotate it, comment, scribble.......interact spiritually, I suppose.

I would recommend this book. It is written by Caroline Smyth, Malcolm MacLachlan and Anthony Clare.

It was published in 2003 and the title alone can stimulate thought and questions thus can make us think laterally.

Title:

pressure points in
Irish Society

Cultivating Suicide?
destruction of self in a changing Ireland......

The news yesterday was about the alarming results of a study regarding a sample of over 1,000 young people attending one of our Leading Universities. It is said that UCD had only 2.5 counsellors available for students....this is a staggering denial!!!!!

The problems are real: Mental illness; Binge Drinking and unprotected sex.

Caroline Smyth, is a graduate Student of Trinity University, Mr. MacLachlan, Associate Professor of Psychology and a Fellow in Trinity College and the well-known media psychiatrist Anthony Clare, adjunct Professor of Psychiatry in Trinity College.

Ireland has the academics; there is the research being carried out; but something is missing. We need more interpersonal grasp between people.....The words used in the introduction of the book are: Poignant and attention grasping are the words used in the Series Introduction.

Words like: Pressure Points in Irish Society
'add value to the social debate' ; 'the highlighting of neglected issues'; the reluctance of any politician 'to make an issue out of problems such as drugs, suicide, disability or immigration'.

Pressure points are serious. Suicide cuts across all walks of life. The time has come for people to review the pace and think about values, codes, ethics, justice etc.

Again I would recommend this book and I would suggest that University Heads ensure adequate counselling provision and give young people access to at least cognitive behavioural assistance. Coping strategies are an invaluable part of the life curriculum.



Michelle
Quotation .....

Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Russian writer
'People can live through great hardship yet perish from bad feelings'

by Ray McInerney Tue Apr 26, 2005 23:53

Teach the students how to meditate

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Wed Apr 27, 2005 20:36

Meditation in the schools is not that unreal. I was talking to a mother the other day whose daughter's school closed down unexpectedly. Needless to say finding school places in Dublin 4 is not that easy....

Apparently the Nova Scotia school on Morehampton Road looks to East and West in their school curriculum.

Students study yoga and learn to meditate.

John Hume speaks of 'Diversity in Unity' .... if only people could be more inclusive. There ought always be room for people to see beyond.

Second hand shops are a haven for minds that explore. I found an old edition of The Magill Book of Irish Politics edited by Vincent Browne prior to 1981....

It details the life of Sean MacBride former Nobel Peace Prize winner, Politician, Human Rights Lawyer and many other causes and interests. A quotation that caught my attention is simply 'Many Voices, one World'


Michelle

by Jon Glackin - Street Seen Wed Apr 27, 2005 23:44

Families of suicide victims who interrupted a health trust meeting in west Belfast today claimed seven young people had committed suicide in the last seven days and called for action to be taken.

Just 24 hours after 19-year-old Stephen McComb took his life, around 50 relatives of suicide victims protested at a North and West Belfast Health and Social Services Trust meeting to plead for more money for counselling services to help stop the growing number of teenage suicides.

Protest organiser Michael Doherty, from the Lenadoon Community Forum, said: "In the last three months, at least 15 young people have taken their own life and there are scores of others who have harmed themselves or attempted to take their own life.

"Local community services that have been proven to work are not being adequately resourced to meet the level of need. We have been told sufficient funds are not available to maintain or expand the services we have.

"We are not going to let this continue, we are not going to sit in silence."

Evelyn Gilroy, whose daughter Denise died four years ago from an overdose, said: "We are not going to sit back and watch our young people die.

"We are not going to go away, we will march in the streets until something is done about this."

Jean Carson, whose son Paul Anthony committed suicide in July 1999, added: "We are literally losing children on a daily basis. We believe you have a purse to open - we are not demanding every penny from it, just give us something."

Last year, community groups in north Belfast appealed for action over an alarming rise in suicide among young people in the Ardoyne area.

In a two month period, at the start of last year, 13 young men in the area took their own lives.

Last month, the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Children and Young People, Nigel Williams, said the government must do more to reduce the number of child suicides in Northern Ireland.

At the start of April the first step on convening a multi-agency group on suicide in the area took place.

The North and West Belfast Health Action Zone said research has shown a higher rate of mental illness in the trust area than elsewhere in the province.

It said there were on average 150 suicides in Northern Ireland each year and that in 2002 the suicide rate for the area was 19 per 100,000 compared to 10 per 100,000 for the rest of Northern Ireland.

by sean Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:17

It is geat to see a community response to this tradegy although I believe it would be a mistake for people to believe that the answer to suicide lies in more funding for psychiatrists and psychiatric services. the answer lies in addressing the real causes which are clearly to do with social and economic marginalisation and the fact that people feel they have really nothing to look forward to. Pill pushing shrinks will tell them that they have brain disorders or mental illnesses that require drugs, etc.

If people go along with the psychiatric system they will only create further trouble and suffering for themseleves.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Mon May 02, 2005 01:06

Sean,

I wholly agree with you about the distribution of funds to pscyhiatrists and psychologists but on the other hand with the level of denial in Ireland to mental health problems, the services provided support people like me and so many others and have provided the necessary coping strategies to deal with life situations.

Mental health has moved on in many ways. People like Professor McKeon, psychiatrist back in the 1980's sought alternative options for their patients, the families and others. The approach became a combined approach and now through Organisations like aware, psychoeducation is provided. This enables the patient to understand the illness - personally, I look upon mental health problems as an illness.

Aware has mushroomed since the 1980's. It is a website I would recommend.

Many organisations similar to Aware are now in existance and each provide a similar broadsheet of options.

For those who have not heard of Aware, here are some brief details.

First: I note that on Friday May 6th, a walk is organised for lunchtime i.e. 1 p.m. It starts at the Memorial Arch and there will be 4 laps of the Green with the Mayor of Dublin. The aim is to raise money.

Aware - Helping to Beat Depression

'Beat the Blues' is a depression awareness programme designed for senior classes in seconday schools......the aim is about awareness, understanding and helping young people to become more open about emotional problems. (Since it opened in 1994, the programme has been brought to over 200,000 young people).

There are monthly lectures held at St. Patrick's hospital, Dublin 8.

There are support groups countrywide, North and South. Trinity hold a weekly Aware meeting for students and others.

The site outlines the various types of depression and there is an article about the inclusion of the family unit in handling the diagnosis.

For people going to University/College, it is worth looking at their Counselling Service Webs sites.

Trinity College Student Union (www.tcdsu.org) have an excellent site titled

Myths about Suicide......I highly recommend this even just as an awareness benchmark.

The article on Social Anxiety Disorder is most interesting.

Other sites include:

Mental Health Association
American Suicide Association (detailed)
Grow

Quote: Gandhi 'You have to be the change you want to see'.

The support is there....I have found the Samaritans most supportive in the past.

Michelle

by sean Mon May 02, 2005 13:40

Hi Michelle,

I can see and respect your point of view.

I don't agree that 'mental health has moved on in many ways'.

The mental health industry and psychiatry is inextricably linked to pharmaceutical companies.these companies have told blatant lies about their drugs, covering up unfavourable and damaging results in clinical trials. Groups like Aware are not entirely upfront about the drug company money they receive and they promote the belief that mental illnesses are brain disorders or illnesses related to brain chemical imbalances( unproven and in my view psychiatric propaganda put out by drug companies to raise huge profits) . Glaxo Smith Kline covered up the fact for years that their drug Seroxat/Paxill could make under 18's suicidal. That is shameful as I know you will agree. Aware have taken money from them and they also argue that these drugs are essential in treating the depression. Another case is Eli Lilly, makers of Prozac. They covered up the fact that their drug damages the serotonin receptors in the brain and can make people more agitated , anxious and suicdal.

Depression,hopelessness, anxiety, paranoia, severe mental and emotional distress are part of the human condition.mental and emotional pain is a fact of life, inescapable, it exists for a reason, it tells us something about life, it can be an opportunity for greater understanding of ourselves and others, it is not an illness or disease as such. It is psychological distress/emotional distress very much related to the societal/environmental context. Psychiatry and the mental health industry believe that essentially these forms of emotional and mental distress are primarily biological in origin(brain chemical imbalances) and that that the real or primary need is to help redress the patient's faulty brain chemistry. I think that it is only in the past fifty years with the beginning of psychopharmacology that we have seen a whole range of so called mental llnesses or mental functional disorders/brain disorders manufactured by the psychopharmaceutical complex to increase and ensure the power and prestige of this industry. It is the pathologisation or medicalisation of the human condition and it has to be resisted.

by dunk Mon May 02, 2005 14:36

a few tools to combat depression and suicide; open communication, creativity, wandering in nature.

i firmly hold that nature is essential, most of us are busy living in cities with all its hassles, but i would definatly encourage going out or bringing friends out to nature; out of manmade, beside a river, watching fish leap upstream, beside a waterfall....

magic tanks
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65045&condense_comments=false

earlier
http://groups.msn.com/ORAISTE/photoalbum1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=16

have people watched film patch adams, based on true story; he checked himself into mental institution as feeling suicidal as not sure what to do with life, in there he found out what he enjoyed doing; something happened, he connected with another human being and helped him by using creativity and humour.
patch went on to go through medical college with his alternative view of things and succeeded in setting up a free hospital

he is calling for a revolution in the way the world is structured today to one of joy, community, humour, love, creativity, listening, playing

"the most revolutionary thing a human can do today is to appear happy in public"
http://www.patchadams.org/home.htm

magic tanks

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Mon May 02, 2005 22:51

I knew nothing about Patch Adams and the character part played in the film by Robin Williams until a friend bought the video for me.

This is alternative thinking but it is worth watching. Personally, you have to keep searching for answers.....

Michelle

Quotation
Solchiro Honda (1906-1991) Japanese Founder of Honda Motor Company

Keep Trying:
'Success is 99% failure'

and Phil Collins British Musician
Action
'The world is in your hands, now use it'

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Mon May 09, 2005 22:40

Sean

Thank you for the detailed response and I can now in truth say that I can relate to almost all you have written about this complex state of mind that haunts some of us.

I note from Reuters and other media sources that certain drug companies are faced with legal actions and more interestingly patients are challenging the drugs they are on and stating a preference for earlier drugs taken (inspite of the limitations with same). I have some grasp here because I changed from the MAOI's and Surmontil to SSRI's and part of me says I feel the earlier drugs were better.

You are correct here if my sample and that of a friend in similar circumstances are correct. This in fact means that drugs may have been catapulted through research procedures and the marketing ensured the sales. Panorama have done two programmes re. Seroxat, Paxil, Prozac.

My introduction to medication was Prozac and the one point that I can recall is the increased agitation and anxiety. However the pain in my heart and mind was that I needed something; for many years I had fought the 'feelings' but I knew at that time, I needed something to help me cope.

About Aware I feel I have to disagree. Psychiatric problems exist in my family and I have spent several decades visiting hospitals. Hospitals ought only be as a last resource.

Professor McKeon, relatives and patients saw an opening in 1985 (?) and they perhaps took a chance. For people like me on long term medication, it has been Aware that has provided a form of virtual support. They speak now of psycho-education and my experience is that I wholly endorse it. Denial of your condition by others, particularly family has a highly negative effect, on your person. It is my experience that when in this situation 'pain begets pain' and the sense of futility is stifling. The challenge is at every level and in my case put me through many house moves, hospital, divorce etc. etc.

The monthly lectures at Aware gave me an understanding, it sourced books that I could read, it put me on a Research programme run by the Women's Studies Department , Trinity, Aware, the National Rehabilitation Board.......The funding was from the European Union. I am grateful for the coping strategies this provided for me. We need more of these type of programmes for our young people. Alas, I think this research was side treked but it always exists and perhaps can be adapted.

Without the knowledge, the virtual support, the meetings, the lectures, the research programmes, people like me who capitulated to the emotional and mental pain borne out of just living, end up in hospital, caught up in that revolving door that sees 70% return to hospital within a year of leaving.

I recall a Forensic Psychiatrist at an Irish Penal Reform Trust meeting who spoke about the Central Mental Hospital. He stated that as many as 80% of admissions could be classified as 'social related cases'. Just think of how easy it is fall of the spectrum of taking a shower daily, paying bills, losing accommodation and throw in the need to be free that is not understood, the absent mindedness that might get you arrested for petty theft, for drunken behaviour.

What I am really trying to say is that in an ideal world there is time to find our soul and inner tranquility but the reality is this luxury comes to us sometimes to late.

Personally I know from anxiety that Frisium is the only way for me. It is cause and effect. I used to have to take a lot but I know that if the underlying problem is real anxiety, then Frisium works. Then you have the time to learn the coping strategies and reduce intake.

There is a new website www.politics.ie

North and South:
United in the acknowledgement that Suicide is at crisis level.

Sean Crowe TD has called Strategic Acion on Suicide.

Gerry Adams said about West Belfast

'If suicide is a national disaster in Ireland, we urgently need a national disaster plan'

The article written May 05 is worth reading.

Sean, where I agree with you is that the medications sometimes provided the space to get through to the side of knowledge and equilibrium and then the person is free to evaluate.

Michelle Clarke

Quotation: Behavioural Science
Jean Paul Satre (1905-1980)
French Existentialist Writer

'Everything has been figured out, except how to live'

by soundmigration Tue May 10, 2005 03:39

i feel a little under informed to be posting but these are just my thoughts i guess.

issues of mental health are often discussed in the media, through the veil of expertise and language of victimhood. No doubt many people benefit through the accumulated experiences and knowledge of 'professionals' in finding ways to improve their quality of life, e.g. the use of medication, or conselling and can benefit people most in reducing the symptoms of depression, and of course this has the potential to lead to an improved quality of live of the individual, but fundamentally our understanding of ourselves, of our feelings, motivation as individuals is couched in fragmented parts ( where the idea of symptons and causes may not be as meaningful as when used to talk about exclusivly physical conditions) , and we, as ‘owners’ of our mind, can be dislocated from ourselves in attempts to figure out ourselves. This dislocation may be nessecary in attempts to find 'answers' , but I think that to divide how we think from the contents of our thoughts is somewhat illusory. This in itself can add to the complexity/tapestry of relating to others.

How we think is relatively unknown to us( the connection between physical brain and conscious mind has at this stage been not really proved more that casual relationship of specific brain area and specific physical movement and/or particular emotional activity). Why we think is even less satisfactorily answered as far as im concerned. Its obvious that the capacity of thought continues to be part of our evolution as a species and enables us to be creative (though unfortunately lots of this has and continues to be exercised negative by those that have power to express it in many forms) but we as individuals and collective as a race of people suffer at varying degrees from this capacity itself.

We are social creatures, ( I used to think the planets most social creatures but nowI think it is an irrelevancy to try to draw comparison between species --- to know what a butterfly thinks you need to be a butterfly and there is no in-between to comprehend---we just are what we are ) we need communication, love and a sense of reciprocity with others to add depth to our own existence, and indeed it is essential for enjoying the time we have on this planet.. This brings its own joy and experience and each of us are fragile and somewhat lesser for its absence. No man, woman or child is an island, though many of us will experience points( moments or lifetimes and all in-between ) of our lives when we feel this is the actually is the case. this is what informs my relationships with others, and also my view of the world.

Our feelings of self worth are complicated phenomena. Much is influenced by our interaction with and experiences from others, be they negative or positive. Our ability to articulate our emotions, even to ourselves, is very dependant on others, be it in the form of conversations, the power dynamics of relationships we have with others, or corrosive and damaging individual experiences.

Finding our “voice” is perhaps a journey that we are all on. We live in a society that values competitiveness over cooperation, reducing the importance of learning from and about each other and pitting us against each other. It stifles even the discussions of shared emptyiness of consumerism, of growing up with pre ordained roles, the pressure of family and societal expectation that require us to conform and submit to ways of living that are not of our own free making.

We live in a society that doesn’t engage in the role of patriarchy is developing a culture of objectification and violence. Those In power ignore the reality of increasing suicide, domestic and sexual violence and abusive relationships because whilst they take the credit for ‘economic success’ (read institutionalised inequality), the reality of our lives is of no concern.

The historic role of the Church in society has generally been conservative repressive and oppressive, where fear and coercion continued to be tools of control. Empathy, discussion of emotional distress, its causes and possible solutions have never figured as important issues for government as it is not an arena that can create wealth. All the while the silence has killed.

Im not trying to make a political point out of individual pain, but there comes a point when collectively we need to say enough is enough. If we are trying to take back power for ourselves in order to attempt to resolve our inner pain, to find balance, expression, worth and meaning in our lives, there is a stage where those who call themselves our “leaders” cannot be allowed to ignore our voice as they continue to create and shape a society based on values that nourished self destruction and negativity…that victimises those who need support…and that devalues all that is beautiful about being alive

It is the responsibility of all of us to take back our selves, our lives, hopes and wants of repair, with the support of our friends families and society as a whole…our concepts of our struggles could be better of for not being individualised, (easy rhetoric I know) in attempts to overcome our individual struggles for a more fulfilled and fulfilling life

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sun May 15, 2005 22:34

Both my partner and I have been intralled by your flow of thought, perhaps converted to sound, I know Kevin has read it three times which is unusual for him and I know it is a piece I will refer back to over time.

I can't explain in words but perhaps a flow of thought is enough.

Speaking to someone yesterday about the fees to be paid to President Clinton continues to chill the misconception I have about money in the light of Suicide, to me it is like a conflict of interests.....but then that is me.

The person spoke about Corporate Fundraising. I had not really every thought of raising funds for causes (that Government ought to provide or at least cater for) as being Corporate - yes, my naievte.

Is it not time to put forward the word Corporate and ask about vested interests? Is it time to make Govt. Ministers accountable and transparent to the degree that we can ensure some form of Ethics in the reality of life? Really, this is just a question - maybe someone might have a view.

For anyone rearing teenagers, I am going to suggest an article that has really impressed me. First from being a teenager and colliding with blackdog personally. The article is written by Professors at Harvard and it gives a most credible stance from the point of a young person - I really would recommend it.

I think it is last month's edition of Newsweek and it is about Depression. I will come back with the website as I can't find it now. I really recommend it so hence you have a lead.


Michelle Clarke

Nice Quote: Tom Stoppard British Playwright
'Every exit is an entry somewhere'

Chinese Proverb
'Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself'

by sean Mon May 16, 2005 22:48

Hi Michelle,

Briefly, in relation to the points you make, I believe the essence of the problem is that psychiatry pathologises facets of a person's thinking and behaviour and yet it claims to be a medical practice treating real physical illlnesses and yet there is no objective physical pathology to observe. Mental suffering is part of the human condition which psychiatry seeks to colonise and conquer as 'mental illness'.

It is possible though that in some persons' experience that their suffering is due to some as yet undetected neurochemical defect or disorder. In that case it is a real brain disorder/illness (not a so-called mental illness) and should be treated by the medical specialty of neurology and not psychiatry. Psychiatry's speciality is causing disease, not treating disease.

by soundmigration Tue May 17, 2005 00:48

hi sean - just some thoughts in reply.

"Mental suffering is part of the human condition which psychiatry seeks to colonise and conquer as 'mental illness'."

i think i know what your getting at but i'm not sure that you can speak of psychiatry as a single unified entity. i've no doubt that on its own a purely psychiatric model used to throw light on human mental processes will only lend itself towards partial answers, or more likely, the next set of questions.

"It is possible though that in some persons' experience that their suffering is due to some as yet undetected neurochemical defect or disorder. In that case it is a real brain disorder/illness (not a so-called mental illness) and should be treated by the medical specialty of neurology and not psychiatry."
---- Have neurological advances been made in isolation from information/insights gained from those trying to understand the mind from a different starting point and vice versa...i geuinely don't know but i would be suprised.

by sean Tue May 17, 2005 10:50

I think the important point that we should all remember here is that no biological cause has been found for even one of the so-called mental illnesses. there has never been any evidence produced of any biological or physical abnormality, no lesions, abnormality of cells, etc. No pathologist and no autopsy has relieved proof of the 'illness' of 'schiziphrenia or 'depression'.

Despite all the marvellous scientific advances today in medicine with brain scanning technology, PET scans, Cat scans, etc,and the chemical analyses that can be done on blood no evidence can be produced which can confirm that so - called mental illnesses are real illnesses just like other illnesses so to speak. It is a myth , psychiatric propaganda sustaining the profession, its power and prestige , and producing tremendous profits for big pharma .

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Thu May 19, 2005 01:56

Has amyone seen the film Patch Adams, it camme ought in 1998.

If not, make it a night to gather toghether some frriinds; some parents; sme medical students, some psychologists........and Dream the Dream that might become an aspiration.

Then go to the website www.patchadams as recommended by writer further up to screen/

I did. And it explodes the mind and is underway globally.

Worth linking in.

Let us not forget others; fighters in Iraq, the US, the British and ponded and think about this

Redjade Submitted May 5 2004

COMING TO GRIEF
By Hans Johnson


'Like the breeze of the later winter, a single word, mispoken, has ripped through the recent funerals of several U.S, service members returned from Iraq.

Families and military press officers have different reqasons for tight lips to the topic. But Suicide among IIraqi war soldiers, 29 cases by recent count, sayls volumes about drooping troop morale and raises fuirther and further doubts about how accurately the toll on service members is being measured and ho much more will they nrstr.

et us consider alternatives:

Ireland has granted landing rights at Shannon. What about concessions to help who become depressed and suicidal that they could come to Ireland for rehabilitation?

Explore the sites like Patch Adams; Go to video shop and watch it and discuss it.

Miichelle

Quotation

Ganhhi
'ou have to be the change you want to see

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Wed Jul 13, 2005 03:04

that may need to be updated.

Today is the 12th Of July......The Parades Commission appars to have worked and hopefully ther will not be too heated debate in the Norh.

John Hume speaks about Diversity and Unity and I see great potential here.

To hope is to look to the Anchor of God and to to see old traditions blend together......It is possible to embrace changes to bring about see.


I have read about suicide and an index that goes libe with 'success' of a society....the point is the suicide rate goes up in line with success.

Any other comments.. We have embrace chante to the Melting Pore example of the United States or in line with cosmopolitan London.

We are working towards a kaiedscope and this is about blending and being consensual.

Quote: 'Imagination is the hihest kite one fly'
Lauren Becal Actress


Good Night Michelle. Any contributions

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethcis Mon Mar 20, 2006 23:28

Approach to the Suicide Issue

I am delighted to note the Ogra Shinn Fein Article on Indymedia and the fact that Wednesday 22nd March will be 'A Suicide Prevention Day of Action......

Ogra Shinn Fein cummans and youth activists.....will align throughout Ireland with protests, candle lit vigils, information stalls, public talks and media interviews.

All Ireland is the approach. This title gave rise to 29 comments and consists of some very comprehensive analysis and detail at a personal level. It may be of benefit to those involved going forward.

Nobel Peace Prize winner refers to the 'Diversity in Unity'.....this includes also the mental health umbrella that covers so much. Once you are say bipolar, there is a fear and intimidation to say that you have anxiety, phobias, eating disorders. The umbrella needs to be open to take away the fear.

Good luck on Wednesday.

P.S. Over the years I have expressed the lack of figures for those who commit suicide by car. These figures are available in other countries and in the US. I think I may have heard on the Radio that the Institute of Suicidology are now calculating the figures but cannot find same on the website. Maybe someone else can. Too many people die early in the morning in accidents that need further explanation.

Also. A Psychiatrist from St. Patrick's spoke on the Pat Kenny show last Friday. He expressed the view that there is now most definitely a link between binge drinking and suicide. Ireland has acquired for itself the worst alcohol consumption level in Europe. I think the man was from the US. This needs urgent attention.

Good luck

Michelle Clarke

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Wed Dec 12, 2007 18:46

7 working day deadline : End of line for Consultants to reach the Heads of Agreement.

Failing a unilateral approach from the Consultants, Mary Harney, Minister for Health, will give the forthright decision to start interviewing and appointed the much needed Consultants to posts where they are needed throughout Ireland. Mobilisation time or is it just another throwaway pledge.

My concern is the near state of neglect in public mental health, particularly the necessary integrated approach that is needed when patients or service users are on medications that are so often contra-indicated.

Cocaine....Cocaine......Cocaine.....Cocaine.....Is it pure? Is there a blocker in it which might even be rat poison.

We have four people dead......young people......people who had potential and if they had not been vulnerable to the Fear involved in life, would be the pension providers of our next in line group looking for state pension.

Are these the Plain People of Ireland? Is it about follow the money? Perhaps it is more morose......Maybe it is about fear, apathy, and anomie. An easy way out for families and friends......the perspective of the person taking the Cocaine etc..

18 years of age - a young woman, pretty, with her life ahead of her, a new car, and parents who love her. What happened? Why did nobody know she was being bullied by Mary 1, Mary 2, Mary 3, ........ Can you imagine her sister finding the diary of her years of sustained hardship through bullies. Mr. Wolfe's words of wisdom.....'it is not your enemies you have to know; it is your friends you have to watch out for'

Bullies....What an outcome for a bully if suicide is the result? Life is a long road and conscience props up so often when you are least able to cope, you may even be old. I have met bullies and they need not be all bad, just misunderstood. They can lack empathy for a start, they are entrenched in the mindset of jealousy, revenge,greed.....' but these are human conditions that can be dealt with, if only we could seriously come to terms with the sense of being human.

Professor Anthony Clare who brought a human touch to psychiatry, died recently. There is an absence of such people in our core locations for psychiatry, - those people who as Jonathan Swift referred to, some four centuries ago, as those who 'Give vision to the visionless'. Please, let us look seriously at Public Mental Health, let us create prototypes and extend channels inwards to practice and research, link this with university departments and large pharmaceutical companies like Wellcome.

Maybe then, we could acknowledge that people with addictions are a branch on to the Mental Health / Neurological / Child Behaviour / Autism/Addiction Chestnut Tree. It is not about age so much as about people - minus categories.

I note from the website that NDA are intending to set up a committee on mental health.....There have been so many of these committees. Yet, if as a person with difficulties of the specific nature (Psychiatric and Neurological) takes the time and effort to write emails to these organisations, nobody replies, nobody cares.

This not only applies to service users i.e. patients i.e. people with a problem, people with an attitude, people with an empathy.....a form of lower being perhaps! According to the Joe Duffy show today, others have experienced the same. Apathy.....no listening.....no empowering.....no speach therapy......no help to people with communication skills indicates the 'otherness' that exists. Systemic crime in homes for people with disabilities and intellectual disabilities have been consistently ignored. Does the Secrecy, and silence still control? Who is behind it?

It was reported that a special report by a renowned Researcher, Professor Browne attached to a University in England, managed to disappear out of the equation of the research at the NDA. Is this an indicator that people like myself who has written for years (since 2003) have in fact been supplying cannon fodder for executives paid high salaries by the state. People who do not observe the ordinary Good Manners that suggest a letter deserves a response, a reference and even assistance. My communications are chronicled by me and I am seriously considering taking this matter further. I count as a person......my experiences post accident count, because I had a life pre-accident.

The report from Cork is that teenagers are grappling with self harm, the reason why it is worth going on......with suicide.

Fact: It is the planting of the seed for real hardship and as a person in my 40's who has been there......My advice is get there as young as possible - go back to some of the classics, nurture different interests......reading can be a best friend but the book ex. libris.....kind should be nurtured and films like Shadowlands ...... C.S. Lewis. Diversity is hindered by Fear, little fears and sometimes alcohol, cocaine, glue, Heroin, give the life.

Go back to Attitudes: Those who are tough may bully but those who are sensitive may cry, feel intimidated. Whatever, temperaments are just that and life is about learning to adapt.

We need more joined up thinking.

Can we afford for the Consultants, doctors etc. to keep on spinning the wheel? The Hippocratic Oath, please recall.......say 'Do not Harm'?

I read recently that there was a shortfall of 60 Psychiatrist positions out of 300 plus......my dear psychiatrist died too young and left a post.........Why disrespect the profession without making full-time appointments. Could there be so many vacancies in Psychiatry in Ireland?

Then ask about Neurology?.......Every company needs someone who is in the role of Chief Executive.

Let us keep the momentum going......Michelle Clarke

by Comyn - Hope Sun Dec 09, 2012 14:42

Suicide: Too many people are choosing this exit from life.

A 16 year old son, grandson, young man in a fleeting glance of thought surrendered to the feeling that created his ability to end his own life. Bereft is what is left behind in Miltown Malbay. Bereft is what is felt by all people who lose a person to suicide. His mother spoke with such dignity. He was an outgoing friendly young man yes a little perturbed about his first State exams and the results he would achieve. His stoic young mother gave the advice to people to talk to your children. Often it is easy to say they are playing around on the computer and assuming that is enough. It is not enough.

The other wise words this mother spoke based on having time to form a take on her sad reality. She realised that this son had high expectations and realistically where they knew he would do okay at his exams, he quite evidently had higher expectations for himself. With wisdom I can confirm this. We forget children are little people. Expectation links highly to perfection and it is perfection that drives competitive advantage and success in our education modules in Ireland. Beware of perfection and children. Take time to hear what children say, what people say. Listening is powerful. One wise old Monk said these words to me one time when I was humbled by the time he was willing to give me in my distress and he 'Time is all I can really give' and to look to bird, to nature.

Christmas is celebration but forget not Christmas is loneliness and this Christmas in particular with so many of our people having emigrated will be particularly hard. Fr McVerry works with the homeless. Yes if at all possible give some money to those in need but if you don't have it try giving some kind words.