Israel just keeps on keepin on

by Mark Sun Aug 03, 2003 22:24

Ollie,

1) Learn to spell
2) Learn some accurate history
Palestine doesn't exist as a state. Therefore, it has no territory. The land you refer to is disputed land, nothing more; so we Jews have a perfect right to build on it, unless otherwise agreed - which it hasn't been.
3) If the Arabs stopped murdering us at random, we wouldn't need to build a wall to protect ourselves. Once they stop, if they ever stop, we'll take it down.

by kokomero Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:57

The land of Palestine is not disputed land, the only dispute being a semantic one exploited by Israels legal establishment as a cover for ethnic cleansing. The UN has passed a series of resolutions going back to 1948 which is completely unambiguous in defining the borders of Israel.

Last time I heard Israel was a member of the UN and agrees to abide by the rules of membership, which in turn means compliance with all resolutions, so Israel is in breach of a long list of resolutions and of international law.

The UN is not some sort of club where you make up your own rules as and when it suits you.

Israel has no need for a defensive wall, given its 200+ nuclear warheads, chemical and biological weapons and massive superiority in terms of conventional forces!

On this basis alone the wall is not defensive and is aimed purely at creating a de facto border for the territories which Israel has stolen from the Palestinians in post-1948 land grabs initiated by Israel masquerading as wars, and subsequent ethnic cleansing by settlers from Brooklyn and elsewhere drafted in as a rent-a-mob of squatters.

Israel must get out of Palestine as defined in the 1948/1967/1973 resolutions and make peace with its neighbours, this alone will ensure a peaceful future!

by Niamh Wed Aug 06, 2003 02:09

You're not very bright, are you?

by kokomero Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:25

If you have a point to make then make it? I was very specific in my criticisms of Israel. If you are able to contest any of them then do so!

by Pat B. Wed Aug 06, 2003 18:47

6 Arab countries tried to destroy Israel in 1967, violating the 1948 ceasefire big time. They were the aggressors, not Israel, even though Israel, totally outnumbered, attacked first to save itself. The territory taken by Israel was just punishment measure for measure, but is used for security not for conquest. It's not Israel that is the imperialist here. It's the Arabs, who want exclusive control from the Atlantic to the Indian Ocean and who don't give a damn about the rights of ethnic minorities, such as the Jews, the Kurds, the Berbers, the Copts and millions upon millions of black Africans.

Israel builds its wall to defend itself - yet again. This is obvious. It is an appropriate tactic to defend against terrorists crossing over to murder Jewish civilians at random.

by kokomero Wed Aug 06, 2003 23:52

As if we were gullible enough to believe that any Arab country or even the whole lot of them together were a match for a nuclear armed Israel backed by the US.

The truth is Israel is bent on permanent territorial conquest as far back as their disgraceful attack on Egypt in 1956 (and before that between the 20s and 1948), together with the Brits and French to sieze the Suez canal.

They were well aware of plans to attack them in 1967 and they in fact were the first to attack supported by the Americans. Ditto in 1973.

Building the wall around the territories is their way of making concrete their territorial conquests through war and ethnic cleansing.

by Pat B. Thu Aug 07, 2003 00:55

If Israel is bent on territorial conquest, as you say, how come it gave back all of the Sinai to Egypt, when there was no military necessity to do that?

by Pat B. Thu Aug 07, 2003 01:07

You seem to forget all the murders that Arabs have committed on Jews across Israel's borders since it the state began. This doesn't count as aggression?

Also, nuclear weapons were never used in 1967 and are completely irrelevant both to that conflict and the problem of random terrorism. Therefore, there is no point even mentioning them.

You obviously know very little about Israel, as it's only 9 miles wide in the middle. Try defending that.

Finally, Israel is a democracy that creates its own wealth with brainpower and hard work. It doesn't need to steal wealth from anyone. Basically, you just don't know what you're talking about.

Anyway, what's the point of bandying words with an obvious anti-Semite? You start with the idea idea that Israel is an aggressor and then just bend the facts to fit. Anyone with any real intelligence can see through this kind of dishonesty immediately.

by kokomero Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:30

Why not confine yourself to the facts instead of getting emotional as is the norm in Israeli culture?

Here is just one example of Israeli theft and treachery in the area of high technology.

Israel is guilty of embezzleing billions of $ from the US in the failed Lavi fighter programme only 5 of which were ever produced:

"Foreign military sales officials at the U.S. Department of Defense traditionally are tolerant of Israeli mismanagement of U.S. arms programs. However, as the delays, cost overruns and blatant moves by IAI to stamp "Made in Israel" on American-made Lavi avionics evolved, the Pentagon decided to terminate the program.

The U.S. Department of Defense therefore formally ceased sending money to Israel for the Lavi program in 1987, but only after American taxpayers had paid some $1.5 billion to fund the project. The interruption of cash flow effectively killed the program, but left Israel with two fully functional Lavi prototypes.

While the Lavi program was underway, China repeatedly initiated talks with U.S. government officials regarding purchase of the F-16. These requests always were turned down, largely because American defense officials feared China's possession of the F-16 could destabilize Beijing's relationships with its neighbors, specifically Taiwan, India, Russia, Japan, and the Philippines.

Unbeknownst to U.S. officials, however, at some point the Chinese also initiated talks with Israel. As a result, according to a declassified Air Force study obtained by the Washington Report, the Chinese version of the Lavi--which has been dubbed the
F-10 by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization--will be "built in large numbers" by the year 2003 "and will possess a radar-evading [read stealth] capability."

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/bookrev/Zakheim.html

Not content with this they have made more billions of $ by selling the technology stolen from the US to the Chinese and Pakistanis (ironic isn't it?) who bought J10s from the Chinese:

http://www.darkconspiracy.com/archive.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/j-10.htm

Needless to say the US government and DoD very angry. With "friends" like this the US has no need of enemies!

The fact that Israel is 9 miles wide is well known to military planners who have no doubt made contingencies for it. Secondly the area in question borders Jordan with which Israel which makes Israeli "concerns" a moot point, and a pretext for Lebensraum.

You have obviously not understood what nuclear deterence means. It is obvious that this is the reason there have been no wars involving Israel since 1973, apart from those such as the Invasion of Lebanon which was conducted by Sharon under Israels nuclear umbrella.

The continuing greiveances of the Palestinians and Israels neighbours who are now militarily impotent, explains the shift to terrorism as a means of advancing Arab aims, and is only seen in isolation by the Israelis. Having secured military security Israel has adopted a policy of containment, the cost of which is civilian and military casualties, rather than political solution, versus the Palestinians. As we know in Ireland containment does not work, and sooner or later you have to make a permanent peace with your enemies on reasonable terms for both parties.