Fintan O'Toole 'hissy fit' on Radio Ulster - Ed Moloney refuses debate with Danny Morrison Da

by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh Thu Sep 22, 2011 18:14

So Martin says he never shot anyone while he was in the IRA, well he wasn't very good at his job if that is the case. Is it a case of Bill Clinton I never inhaled, i.e. I took aim but didn't manage to hit him. I sent wee Larry off to do it and he missed as well. Clinton sounds more credible

by Ben Black Fri Sep 23, 2011 00:14

Same point as Kevin Myers. Great minds thinking alike or fools seldom differing? Those opposing Martin McGuinness are going to let Michael McDowell and Keven Myers do their thinking for them, inevitably.

by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh Mon Sep 26, 2011 19:57

No, I don't let Myers do my thinking for me, never even read or listen to him or Jackboot McDowell. Some people just don't find McGuinness credible, that's all. And it is not anti-republicanism as ever since the peace process the Shinners claim to be republican is dubious at best.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Sep 27, 2011 13:10

Ceist n request.

Please provide your definition of republican. It seems to be a bit of a moveable feast.

by Micky MacEvelly Tue Sep 27, 2011 15:51

Gearoid is suffering from the political disease of anti-provoism. Sufferers say the same things, oppose and are obsessive about the same things as right wing ideologues, but think they are being left wing while doing it. It is what makes Ed Moloney a favourite of Eoghan Harris, Michael ('Jackboot' - GOL got that right) McDowell and Kevin Myers. It also lets Sinn Fein off the hook, since they are opposed by political hysterics (Fintan O'Toole's article on MMcG as a 'war criminal' is a perfect example).

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Wed Sep 28, 2011 09:45

is right. Including Uncle George&Co on radio FG.
Listening to Ivan the Trivial et al hammering their righteous pontifications for Opus Dei Mitchell oscillates from the rediculous to the pathetic and may well prove McG's greatest campaign asset.

by Manus O'Riordan - Irish Times letter 26 September 2011 Wed Sep 28, 2011 14:04

Sir, – I am somewhat bemused at the statements by Fine Gael Ministers Shatter and Hogan, respectively, that Martin McGuinness is an “inappropriate” person to become president of Ireland, because of “his exotic background” and for “carrying too much baggage from his past”.

At the time of his death at 23, Phil Kelleher had been a top class rugby player, scheduled to wear the green jersey in the next International match. He was, of course, also a police officer, when shot in the back by IRA gunmen in a provincial hostelry shortly after chatting with the charming hostess behind the bar. The local IRA general who had ordered that 1920 Halloween killing, also saw to the execution of two young Protestants, named Elliot and Chartres, on charges of identifying and informing on Kelleher’s killers. The charming Longford hostess had been Kitty Kiernan, fiancée of Michael Collins, while the local IRA general was Seán Mac Eoin who, in his memoirs entitled With the IRA in the Fight for Freedom, went on to dismiss Kelleher as “a young ex-army officer who was given orders to take action against the IRA and clean up the area”.

Fine Gael, also styling itself the United Ireland Party, was so proud of Gen Seán Mac Eoin’s “exotic background”, that it deemed him a most appropriate person to become president of Ireland, running him as the Fine Gael candidate in both 1945 and 1959.

I would appeal to the Republican-spirited among Fine Gael voters, who like myself believe in unity-by-consent, to recognise the heroic work undertaken by Martin McGuinness over the past decade in working for a New Republic, based on consent and by exclusively peaceful methods, and conclude that there is no more appropriate candidate to now become president of Ireland. – Yours, etc,

MANUS O’RIORDAN, Finglas Road, Dublin 11.

by Brian Feeney - The Irish News, September 28, 2011 Thu Sep 29, 2011 09:31

Monday's Irish Times carried a letter from one Manus O'Riordan which put in a nutshell the reason both for the hypocrisy and for the consternation Martin McGuinness's candidature has caused in the Republic.

O'Riordan referred to minister Alan Shatter's remark that McGuinness is not an "appropriate" candidate because of his "exotic background" and pointed to a certain General Sean Mac Eoin who ordered the killing of 23-year-old Irish rugby player Phil Kelleher in 1920. Kelleher was an RIC man shot in the back after being captivated in conversation at a bar in Longford by none other than Kitty Kiernan, Michael Collins's fiancee. Mac Eoin later ordered the killing of two Protestants who identified the gunman. How do we know? Mac Eoin proudly recounted his exploits in his memoirs With the IRA in the Fight for Freedom.

As O'Riordan's letter points out, Alan Shatter's party, Fine Gael, was so content with Mac Eoin's "exotic background" that it nominated him for president in 1945 and again in 1959.

That was the 'good' IRA you see, so Sean Mac Eoin's background was an electoral advantage.

The reason for the consternation that the arrival of Martin McGuinness on the scene has produced is that the Republic's political class has carefully constructed a narrative about the origins of the state which denies any connection with the northern Troubles.

Indeed southern politicians and meeja are anxious to deny any links historical or otherwise with the north that could be construed as legitimising the IRA campaign since 1970.

They have been aided and abetted by a clique of historians who, according to Professor Terry Eagleton, formerly professor of English literature at Oxford, view the 1916 Rising "as an event only slightly less catastrophic than the Black Death".

No wonder they're all aghast that McGuinness might win. If he did, his victory would collapse the whole narrative house of cards so painstakingly stacked together over the past 40 years.

In an uncanny replay of the 1918 election, putting McGuinness in the Aras would legitimise the whole IRA campaign just as giving Sinn Fein an overwhelming endorsement in 1918 provided electoral ratification for the 1916 Rising.

Of course you could also say electing McGuinness is an expression of the frustration, anger and outrage the voters in the Republic feel at the established parties for plunging the state into penury. You could say that but President McGuinness and Sinn Fein would say different. They would say quite correctly that people knew who they were voting for, not least because the southern meeja keep reminding them. They kept reminding them who Gerry Adams was in February and he ended up in Louth with the third highest personal vote in the state.

Perhaps the supreme hypocrisy is repeating that McGuinness's past disqualifies him in the Republic while the same Republic's government extols his past as a necessary and desirable qualification for sharing power with unionists. This attitude was exemplified by Ruth Dudley Edwards on the BBC on Sunday when she said having unionists share power with Sinn Fein was "practical politics, nothing to do with an independent sovereign republic, an entirely different situation".

Really? So it's more acceptable for unionists who were in a lethal conflict with republicans to team up with Martin McGuinness than for politicians in the Republic who regarded the Troubles merely as an embarrassment and a hindrance to the Celtic tiger's roar?

Yes, he's OK for us because for them, if McGuinness were to win or even top the poll before being knocked out by transfers, it would not only change the way Irish people view the state but would alter the view of the state that others such as the British, for example, hold. In short the official description of Ireland presented to the world over the past 40 years would be exposed as a fraud manufactured for political expediency.

No wonder the southern establishment is horrified to find McGuinness is the man to beat. No wonder every element of the southern meeja has turned its firepower on McGuinness. A northerner redefining the state, reminding the world of the unfashionable origins of the state?

And they thought Mary McAleese was a threat 14 years ago?

by Grouchy Marx Sun Oct 02, 2011 20:51

Gay Blueshirt Mitchell becomes Eoghan Harris's candidate
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/100648

Comment transferred to 'Other Press' section, above.

by Memory Man - Media Memorialists Mon Oct 03, 2011 19:29

On Today PK (RTE Radio One) on 30 September 2011 Danny Morrison questioned Peter Murtagh, Foreign Affairs Editor of the Irish Times, about his article on 29 September 2011 relating to an alleged event that happened 25 years previously. It concerned the shooting by the IRA of IRA informer Frank Hegarty in Derry in 1986.

Peter Murtagh, who was then working for the Guardian newspaper, said that when he was interviewing Hegarty’s family in 1986, Republicans arrived and 'suppressed' his interview. He alleges he was taken outside by two 'heavies' to meet Martin McGuinness who asked him not to pursue the story. Read it here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0929/1....html

Author and former Sinn Fein Press Officer Danny Morrison took issues with Murtagh in a heated telephone phone call late on 29 September 2011. Both joined Pat Kenny on Today PK the following morning. Morrison asked Murtagh why he did not write his sensational story in the Guardian in 1986. In his telephone call with Murtagh Morrison compared Murtagh's story with one by ex-Irish Times (now Independent) journalist Kevin Myers, in which Myers also wrote of an event many years later, concerning Gerry Adams. This comparison seemed to upset Murtagh.

Listen to the AUDIO here.

'Why didn't you write it then?': Danny Morrison debates Peter Murtagh of the Irish Times on Martin McGuinness 2.02 Mb

by Gearóid O Loingsigh Tue Oct 04, 2011 03:11

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this debate, but I am no longer in your time zone and to be honest possibly I am of a different planet (that is that I am on planet earth). Definition of republican, someone who believes in a republic rather than administers a puppet state in the north. To paraphrase that ludicrous US series Doooh.

Get a life.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:35

..but it sounds more inverse-Tarrantino to me. All standing in a circle pointing the finger of 'real' republican at themselves as everyone else is a traitor to the pure creed, which remains usefully undefined.

More like a recipe for dictatorship in republican cloak. A bludgeon for those who oppose your preconcieved utopian vagaries. Tautological and circular definition, at best.

I have a life, ta, and for all the milage I never got more distant from Earth than jet-altitude.

Try a little elaboration of your '..someone who believes in a republic...', if you want others who have an understanding of the historical origins of the term(rather than a self-chosen politburo)to give you any credence. And if you're reduced to insult, do try and leaven with a trace of intelligence. For all anyone knows you may think CJH and his brat Bert were the republicans they claimed. Not very conducive to clarity. But then perhaps the simplicity of a warm trigger is what you mean. After all, anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with your 20-20 telescopic vision is relegated to 'puppet' dismissal. Handy for you in your hammock, but fails to address the issues as sure as Gaybo Mitchell's tar-brush.

by Redundant Republican Wed Oct 05, 2011 22:33

I cant work Marty out. He wants to be President of the free state. He now calls militant republicans traitors. He once believed that the cutting edge of the IRA would end British rule. It is suggested that Marty is a Brit spy with the codename "fisherman". The Belfast leadership of the republican movement was controlled by the British. Was/Is Marty an agent? Was he o/c of northern command and an MI5 operative ? If it is a fact that Marty has worked for the Brits, that he handed the provos and all weapons over to the enemy, that he becomes free state president-he will deserve the MBE that Lizzie will award him when the time is right for both of them.

by Joe - None Wed Oct 05, 2011 23:17

It's ironic that, north of the border he's seen as a British spy who sold out the IRA, while in the south he's condemned for never having left

them. It seems he can't win. Except that he might.

by Observer Fri Oct 07, 2011 13:25

If all that Redundant Republican wrote was true the political establishment down south would welcome Martin McGuinness with open arms. Since they do not, quite the opposite, it implies that it is not true and is disinformation.

by Redundant Republican Fri Oct 07, 2011 15:10

Marty claims to be a republican in the tradition of 1916. The proclamation from which he justified the war. The republic is 32 county, no border, no stormont, no leinster house and no 26county free state president. What part of republican does he not understand?

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Fri Oct 07, 2011 15:16

So will you be ruling your republic from Cashel, Croghan, Ard Mhacha or Tara?

by Redundant Republican Fri Oct 07, 2011 16:16

Marty wants everything both ways. Impose british rule in the six counties and proclaim a new republic in the free state. Implement cuts to health,education and social welfare in the six counties and oppose all budget cuts in the free state. All things to all people. Adore your false god, Marty will never lead us into any republic.

by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite party Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:33

..given the neo-unionist media hysteria he's raised.

But then if we ever do get more republican government than the present expedient bend-with-the-breezers, your rants would drive most of us out.

Run yourself, see how many votes the people give you. Or are you running already as Gabby Mitchell, you seem to echo his bitter hatred?