Resistance to Injustice is Good -- not "Authoritarianism"!

national | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis

Sunday August 09, 2009 02:12

by Diarmuid Breatnach - Dublin Basque Solidarity Committee

Dublin basque Solidarity Committee reply to a Seomra Spraoi supporter

The Seomra Spraoi collective refused DIBC permission to use their space citing two political reasons for the refusal. The DIBC wrote to Seomra protesting the refusal and, a month later without reply, posted the letter on Indymedia, where it generated some comment, including one from Mark in which he attacked the publicising of the issue and made a number of allegations against the DIBC.

Mark, of Seomra Spraoi but writing in a personal capacity, commented on the Dublin basque Solidarity Committee’s letter to Seomra Spraoi, in which we responded to the letter laying out Seomra’s reasons for denying us the use of their space for a basque Festival. A month after Seomra’s receipt of that letter, DIBC had posted it on Indymedia; Mark’s comments appeared on July 16. Due to pressure of business and personal commitments, we have not been able to get a response back until now.

What characterised Mark’s reply above all, despite its length, was a refusal to address the two political reasons given by Seomra for their denial to the DIBC. Also at issue was the manner in which Seomra made their final decision without giving DIBC an opportunity to reply to objections, despite a previous undertaking to allow that. In the absence of addressing those issues, Mark’s reply employs unsubstantiated allegations and even an attempt at personalising the issues.

Mark accuses us of “myth-making on public fora”and later of “muck-raking”, “half-baked allegations” and “innuendo” but does not tell us what “myths”, “half-baked allegations” or “innuendo” he thinks we have been making. He refers to a “smear of not being ‘working class enough’” but it was not the DIBC that made any reference whatsoever to that but one or two other commentators on Indymedia.

Mark states that “several groups ... have not been given the go-ahead to use the space” but that “none have been as vitriolic in response” as have we and also accuses us of “having a rant”. If by “having a vitriolic rant”, Mark means stoutly combatting the reasons given for our refusal and the lack of opportunity to answer our accusers, protesting our exclusion and pointing out the incongruence of the decision and the dangers for the future direction of Seomra, then fine, but we would deem all that well within legitimate action in the face of injustice and everything said by us as having been within the limits of legitimate political criticism.

For example, accusing Seomra of “allying itself with repression” was justified, in our view, by reason of its objective actions and the reasons it gave for them. The Spanish and French states are repressing the basque people because of their wish for self-determination, also denying them space, also alleging that progressive movements are allied to ETA and using that to justify repression. Saying that “a cancer is now eating away at Seomra, the cancer of injustice,” is also entirely justified. Or can people believe that Seomra can act unjustly against one individual or groups without that injustice gradually corrupting one’s organisation?

To have this out in public discussion is no doubt uncomfortable for Seomra but that is the traditional recourse of those who have been dealt with unjustly by those who have more power. What would DIBSC be hoping for from going public? What do most people hope for in such situations? Either the rectification of the injustice or the dissemination of information about the lack of justice to all other people of goodwill – what else?

Mark accuses us of bieng “disingenuous” when replying to another “to ask Seomra Spraoi what the ‘fuss’ is about” when he says that clearly our intention was to create a fuss. But if one is going to attack an organisation about something said in correspondence, it would be wise to read the whole of the corresondence in question. Anyone who does so can see that it was an Indymedia commentator who first said he didn’t understand what all the fuss was about, given that all that DIBSC asked for was a space to put on their festival and to give information about basque culture and their struggle. Our comment suggested s/he take that up with Seomra.

Later again, Mark misrepresents what I had written months earlier in a personal capacity in an article for Red Banner (which I later posted to Indymedia with the permission of both publications) “Why Can’t the Irish Left See the Basques?” I didn’t say that I felt “that the DBSC is isolated and doesn’t receive the support from the radical left it deserves”. What I said, in summary, was that the basque struggle (not the DIBSC) doesn’t receive the support it deserves from the Irish revolutionary (non-Republican) socialist movement (including the anarchists). The article noted that support comes mainly from the Republican movement and also looked at the history of solidarity from revolutionary socialists to movements for self-determination elsewhere in the world in the context of the struggle in the basque Country.

Mark then seeks to create some kind of disunity in the DBSC Committee by pointing out that I am “one person doing all the talking on their behalf”. There were three Basques and myself at our first meeting with the Seomra Entertainments Committee and at least one of them spoke eloquently, despite English being his third language, of their experience of such “liberated spaces”as Seomra, and of how they wished to use the space and contribute to it in future. The ploy of trying to discredit or at least “wedge” the representation of a group, so often used by those in power, is transparent perhaps but no less distasteful for all that. However, it is nevertheless ironic that Mark should invite other members of the DIBSC to comment on how they feel about their exclusion, when to date Seomra has not replied to our letter (in their posession for over a month before we went public) nor indeed have any Seomra supporters publicly justified our exclusion since.

Mark makes the point that Seomra does not wish to be seen as a service and looks for participation. That never figured among the reasons given for the exclusion of DIBSC from Seomra but, as it happens, some of the Basques did offer to become involved in Seomra and to help out and I myself have put in hours of physical work on a number of occasions with the new building (and had volunteered for more).

Mark also asks DIBSC to “approach (Seomra Spraoi) in an attitude of solidarity”, accuses us of not being open to “dialogue and conversation” or “open honest communication and mutual respect” and of engaging in a “dialogue of the deaf”. The DIBSC did approach Seomra in an attitude of solidarity, open honest communication and mutual respect. We complied with all the various forms of application required of us and were in contact with Seomra on this matter for about two months before the refusal and nearly three months before we learned of the refusal. It is not us who practiced the deaf ear.

The salient facts are worth re-examination, since much energy is being spent in avoiding them, which were because of
(a) DIBSC support of self-determination for the basque Country and
(b) some of the collective decided (without any justification whatsoever) that there was some kind of connection between DIBSC and the armed group ETA).
The matter of the “less than professional manner of communications, in terms of times of responses, etc.” to which Mark is “willing to put (his) hands up” is of course of much less importance and, in any case, was never about being “professional” but about treating people decently.

Of course “no group can demand to use the space as a right” but surely all groups that are progressive and non-authoritarian have the right to expect that they will be treated equitably and that they will not be refused on spurious grounds? From a legal standpoint, of course Seomra are “under no obligation to do anything for anyone” but where then do principles such as supporting social action, protest, solidarity and opposing censorship come in?

Although we thank Mark for his “sincerely wish(ing) DBSC all the best”, he has accused our Committee (or possibly just me) has of authoritarianism and of loud opinion. No evidence of “authoritarianism” has been produced, only that we did not quietly accept our exclusion and slink away – an interesting interpretation of “authoritarianism” from a Seomra Spraoi active supporter. We in the DIBSC come from a number of traditions of proud struggle for rights and many of our supporters are aware of a long human history of resistance to injustice in the world. Therefore we make no apology for being “loud” in our opinion and in our opposition to this injustice too, although regretfully it has been perpetrated by an organisation from which we would have hoped for something much better.

Please note that we are busy and that we reserve the right not to continue this correspondence with anyone who does not address the central issues or who engages in unprincipled tactics.

Diarmuid Breatnach, Coordinator,
Dublin basque Solidarity Committee.

save preference

Comments (31 of 31)

Jump To Comment:

republican movement -

by Blue bells

Sun Aug 09, 2009 05:13

''The article noted that support comes mainly from the Republican movement''...

ha ha ha, thats probably why, I would'nt go near modern Irelands republican/natioanlist folks. Any ''dissidents'' involved in the Basque solidarity campaign?

SS - Seomra Spraoi

by Padraig

Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:49

Very insightful reply from the DIBC which hits on all the major political points. It is worth nothing that none of the allegations made against the DIBC have been substantiated.

At the end of the day, people will judge the exclusion of the DIBC, and possibly other progressives who will seek to use the facilities in the future, as nothing but pure sectarianism.

to Padraig

by Conor

Sun Aug 09, 2009 13:11

''At the end of the day, people will judge the exclusion of the DIBC, and possibly other progressives who will seek to use the facilities in the future, as nothing but pure sectarianism''

I dont see it as sectarian, you choose to see it that way.

To Conor

Sun Aug 09, 2009 13:20

Seomra Spraoi have given their reasons as being political. It is sectarian.

–adjective

narrowly confined or devoted to a particular sect.

narrowly confined or limited in interest, purpose, scope, etc.

Sun Aug 09, 2009 17:06

With all due respect Padraig, the word 'sectarian' is prettty extreeme. You chose to explain your version of sectarianism in no less than two lines, its more complicated than that now. Relax a bit.

Sun Aug 09, 2009 17:37

Political sectarianism is extreme and it is a simple concept. Only two lines are sufficient explanation of what it is.

Sadly, SS do not seem to make the connection between progressives, but instead focus on what they consider the differences.

fair

by francis hughes

Sun Aug 09, 2009 20:30

I am one of those commentators on the last thread on this subject, i was and am still very dissapointed that this group was not allowed use of the facility. In the mean time though i have talked to people associated with Seomra Spraoi and I beleive that some of them particularly the ones who work hard there regularly feel they 'owe' no group anything. I see their point that people should not take it for granted etc etc. but i feel that both sides have hardened in their positions and its come down to pride and ego. Surely both the Basque group and the Seomra can come up with some sort of an arrangement. If they dont than i am growing more to the conclusion that the place is more a hangout for people with certain lifestyle images and not a space for serious politics. If thats the case, ok, we still need that type of space but they shouldnt claim it to be revolutionary.

reply to francis

by no one

Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:04

''If they dont than i am growing more to the conclusion that the place is more a hangout for people with certain lifestyle images and not a space for serious politics''

I wrote out a long response to this idiotic comment, but there is no point. You, francis, obviously dont know what your talking about.

truth hurt, much?

by anraoi

Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:51

"a hangout for people with certain lifestyle "

Hmmm.

"Idiotic"

Hmmm.

Gimme Constructive Space

by garrotte

Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:21

Author
Why Diarmuid are you targeting only one individual. Seomra Spraoi is a collective. The decision was made by a collective not an individual.

Your “a cancer is now eating away at Seomra, the cancer of injustice,” is a bizarre remark indeed. I was involved in seomra spraoi, its a volunteers organisation run by human beings, plus limited resources of people and time = pragmatic decisions over idealistic ones.
The Basque situation has two stands for me. One, resisting cultural hegemony form the Spanish State (especially under the butcher franco), and other creating a Basque state.

In its nationistic stuggle Dublin Basque Solidarity Committee should expect little co-operation form libertarian centres etc...... contradicts with NO Borders No Nations ideology.

The Basque stuggle against the Spanish state to preserve its culture is a struggle for all progressive movements. I would be in favor of letting Dublin Basque Solidarity Committee use seomra spraoi for this reasons, however not being involved or contributing to running the collective (work) so did not take part in the decision making. People who put in the effort of running this project had the right to reject the Dublin Basque Solidarity Committee. They put the work in, and there is a limit to how much time people can put in before burn out....etc.

Sepomra Spraoi is an important project for people to met up, and is one of many strands needed to build up more activist networks. Like all human being projects it runs the risk of falling in to life styleism, losing direction etc... That is why constructive agitation is needed. Diarmuids style of agitation is destructive. I sympathize with Basque committee not being allowed to use the space but burning bridges not the way to go.

Seomra Spraoi or what ever branding you what to use for seomra centres has opened up and taught a lot of people about grassroots organisations for the few years its being around, long may social centres continue:

Below is a link to video produced by RAG about Galway Social Space and Seorma Spraoi.:

http://www.vimeo.com/4607329

Caption: Video Id: 4607329 Type: Vimeo
Embedded video Vimeo

Re: garrotte

by Séamus

Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:49

Why Diarmuid are you targeting only one individual. Seomra Spraoi is a collective. The decision was made by a collective not an individual.

You must have missed the original thread on this issue, garrotte. A letter was addressed from the DBSC to the Seomra Spraoi collective. It can be read here: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/93124

The piece above is in reply to one person in that original thread, who responded to the posting of the letter with a vective against the DBSC and Diarmuid.

Why so sensitive?

by Bixente Lizarazu

Mon Aug 10, 2009 13:07

"The piece above is in reply to one person in that original thread, who responded to the posting of the letter with a vective against the DBSC and Diarmuid."

Not affiliated to Seomra Spraoi or the DSBC myself, but it seems one side of this argument has a very thin skin indeed - having dished out some very harsh criticism of the Seomra Spraoi group, they don't like it when they get a strong response. I've just read over Mark's comment and I don't see anything "personalised" about it. He just gave a firm response to a very, very harsh attack on his group. If you want to dish it out, prepare yourself to take it.

At least Five strands in the Basque struggle.

by Diarmuid Breatnach - Dublin Irish Basque Solidarity Committee

Mon Aug 10, 2009 16:55

One commentator thinks we should be prepared to take criticism if we dish it out. Indeed, but then let it be political, factual and address the main issues -- it wasn't and didn't.

To another commentator, Garrotte: we did indeed address our correspondence to the Seomra collective. Then, in the absence of a reply or dialogue, we went public with it. The individual to whom we replied posted his comment as a Seomra supporter, albeit in a personal capacity, hence our refutation of what he was saying.

The comment about Seomra being "a volunteer organisation ...plus limited resources of people and time" and “avoiding burnout” is hardly relevant, with respect. We sought a time-space not being used by anyone else, would have staffed it ourselves and of course prepared and cleared up afterwards. Originally Seomra told us they wished to also put two of their members on duty that evening -- that was their choice and of course we accepted.

Garrotte is correct that the "Basque struggle has two strands …. One, resisting cultural hegemony from the Spanish State” (but also from the French state, within which two of the seven Basque provinces are situated) and the “other, creating a Basque state”.

But there is a third: anti-repression. Demonstrations are regularly banned and attacked. The Basque movement has seen two newspapers closed down (the editors of one have just been charged with terrorism two years after their original arrest and torture) as well as a radio station. Four political parties have been banned, as have two youth organisations. Centres have been raided and sometimes closed. There are over 765 political prisoners, scattered over French and Spanish territory, most of them far from their relatives. Their sentences have been increased and their remission cut and they are often in dangerous and overly restrictive conditions; some are seriously and even terminally ill. Now the police are harassing weekly vigils and welcome home ceremonies, also raiding centres, pubs and even houses to take down pictures of the prisoners. The state tactics of abductions, torture and assassination of the 1980s have re-surfaced. Allegations of torture in custody are widespread and have been condemned by a number of international organisations.

There is also a fourth strand: social justice. The pro-independence Basque Left movement seeks a society organised socially and economically to benefit all. Their unions LAB and ELA, despite opposition from the Spanish unions UGT and Comisiones Obreras and from state and media, recently carried out a fairly successful one-day general strike.

And there is also a fifth strand: the environmental one; for example, there is active resistance to a High-Speed Train from France passing through the northern and southern Basque provinces on its way to Spain. Some years ago, the Basque movement also closed down a nuclear power station at Lemoiz, not far from Bilbao.

Perhaps Garrotte is right to think that the national self-determination strand should not get support from Seomra supporters but in the past many anarchists, anarcho-syndicalists and libertarians such as Louise Michel and Jim Larkin, for example, have supported such struggles. However, opposition to that strand does not imply, as Garrotte notes, that the DIBSC could not have been facilitated on the other strands.

Garrotte and a few others have criticised us for making this public (e.g. “Diarmuid's style of agitation is destructive”) but what choice did we have? To accept the injustice and go quietly away? Remember, we complied with every request from Seomra and then were refused while being denied the opportunity to reply to the objections against us.

Long may social centres continue, indeed, but on a basis of justice, solidarity and fair play!

Free speech

by Eddie

Mon Aug 10, 2009 18:28

I have noticed from the Seomra website that the seomra hold spanish language classes, Is it not possible to learn the Irish or basque language in this centre if not why not, cultural and languge diversity is something that defeats ignorance and stupidity.

talk about ignorance...

Mon Aug 10, 2009 21:29

It is possible to learn the Irish, Basque or any other language, just come and teach it... I presume you can teach these languages if your here suggesting Seomra should teach it. It not easy to find teachers who will teach for free in Dublin you know.

There is a relative utility to learning Spanish & almost none to either Gaeilge or Euskera.

by brutal cynical nationalist splitting hair type

Mon Aug 10, 2009 22:31

It's wonderful to learn that Seomrai Spraoi offers classes in the second most spoken language on the planet especially considering most people availing of those classes would speak and write English. Before wondering why there are no classes in Mandarin Chinese to help people learn about worker struggles and campaigns for human rights in PRC as in South and Central America, I reckon you'd have to be well hairy in the ears and nostrils to think there is any comparison to be made with the utility of either gaeilge or euskera. Neither Irish nor Basque culture is defined anymore nor has been for a very long time through linguistic values. Can anyone put an exact date on when either the Irish or the island or the Basques of the whole effing Euskal Herria spoke in Gaeilge and Euskera at home and then traded and educated their young in it?

quite.
sin é.
hori soinutxo as the vast majority of Basque nationalists needed 30 years of PNV education or a wad of night classes to understand.

It's like it really made be giggle earlier to read how one of the Basques who accompanied Diarmuid spoke "articulately in his third language". Oh yes. Quite. gan ahmras. So he learnt Euskera after Spanish and before English then? How's his Gaeilge getting on?

Ah sure...

by I LOVE SEOMRA SPRAOI

Tue Aug 11, 2009 01:22

Seomra Spraoi is still the best place in the city, and maybe even in the country. Three cheers for the hard-working volunteer collective!

To Diarmuid

by Collie

Tue Aug 11, 2009 02:05

Hey Diarmuid, well done to you and your group for creating a tension that is not needed, or wanted. Why you chose to post this on Indymedia is far beyond me and none of your silly reasons will be sufficient.

So again, well done to the spiteful Basque group. You have not put me off the beutiful space that is seomra spraoi, you have simply isolated yourselves as some negative, spiteful and revengful group (in my opinion of course) and ruined your image. I never even knew your group existed, now I know, I will stay clear of any involvment with people like you.

You have tried, and maybe succeded to damage the image of seomra spraoi, the only place like it in Ireland, well done, thats just what we need, and also, you have damaged your own image.

Your stupid, foolish games have only had negative affects, pure and simple.

Get on with it Diarmuid will ye, and cop on.

seomraspraoiuser

by Seomra spraoi user

Tue Aug 11, 2009 02:40

This is what your man, Durmuid said in his last rant. Listen man, grow up. Your as bad a narky child....... ''Seomra has aligned itself with the oppressors of the Basque people, the French and Spanish states'' - When did the collective take up this position? Its new to me. You see, I thought they didn't support oppresion, but maybe the collective changed its attitude?!?

I also read that he, personally, went onto the seomraspraoi facebook page and added the link to his rambling post on the sites calender. Why?

DBSC, yous have made some good points, but why here? Why cause the hasstle.
I think you all need to have a sit down and think about what direction YOUR group is going. Did you ever hear of the child not getting his/her way...

By the way, is there more than one person in this DBSC

Who's to blame?

Tue Aug 11, 2009 13:03

I think people have lost sight of the whole thing. The injustice is that Seomra Spraoi refused admittance to the Dublin Basque Solidarity Group for politically sectarian reasons, and for connecting the Basque Solidarity Group to ETA (!) something the Spanish state has done in relation to any organisation which seeks the self-determination of the Basque people or any organisation for that matter which promotes Basque political, social and cultural rights. That is not only childish, but also very sinister.

The injustice is not the fact that Seomra Spraoi are being criticised, rightly in my honest opinion but for the totally unjust and plain wrong reasons given for barring the Basque Solidarity Group.

The Basque Solidarity Group did the right thing by going public after Seomra Spraoi refusing to reply in private correspondence.

Either way, Seomra Spraoi has been shown up for what it is.

Seomra

by Peter mc kenna

Tue Aug 11, 2009 13:10

Can anyone from seomra answer this letter or are you all deprived of common decency, there should be no place in the city for discrimination it's not 1950's alabama we live in there will be no toleration of this in modern day Ireland .

Tiresome hysteria

Tue Aug 11, 2009 14:34

"Can anyone from seomra answer this letter or are you all deprived of common decency, there should be no place in the city for discrimination it's not 1950's alabama we live in there will be no toleration of this in modern day Ireland ."

Somebody from the Seomra Spraoi group already replied to the criticism of their actions - this appeared to enrage the spokesman for the Basque group, hence this article. I don't think they are obliged to spend all their time writing lengthy responses, I'm sure they all have other things to be doing in their lives. I've gone along to a few events in Seomra Spraoi myself but I've never helped out with the mundane organisational work to keep the place running so I'd be very hesitant to demand that they make themselves available to answer hostile attacks - I'd say you should be hesitant too.

And can you explain exactly what the "discrimination" is - a group of volunteers who keep a social centre running with their own time and energy decided not to give that space to a particular group - this is not quite the same as black people being told to get to the back of the bus - you may not agree with their decision but if you're going to rant and rave like a hysteric then nobody is going to take you seriously.

Hysterical is right

Tue Aug 11, 2009 15:10

The only ones who are going hysterical seem to be those defending Seomra Spraoi's decision and how people dare question their 'collective'!

get over it!

by whatever! - not now

Tue Aug 11, 2009 15:30

This thread is bizarre and, given the forum, that's saying something.
When the above poster used the line " you may not agree with their decision but if you're going to rant and rave like a hysteric then nobody is going to take you seriously", did he or she not see any irony in it at all?
Whatever point was to be made (and I have no doubt there was a point somewhere) can everyone get over it and concentrate on something that is going to make a difference to this mad world we live in?

To Padraig

Tue Aug 11, 2009 16:29

''The only ones who are going hysterical seem to be those defending Seomra Spraoi's decision and how people dare question their 'collective'!''

You can question the collective Im sure, but why here. If you want to question them go to their open meetings or email them. Its quite pointless doing it on Indymedia

Why not?

by To Conor

Tue Aug 11, 2009 16:39

Why not here?

I've attempted to contact SS through email on something completely unrelated but didn't get a reply.

to Why not?

Tue Aug 11, 2009 18:45

This is not the seomra sproai website. It is a media outlet

Gaeilge is the 200th language with native speakers, Euskera is 256

by language learner

Tue Aug 11, 2009 21:11

Hence, leaving aside English and Spanish which is taught at the Seomra Spraoi, shouldn't there be a fair and non-partisan waiting list of other languages?

Someone earlier wondered why Basque isn't taught. Probably because only 632,000 native speakers exist in all of Euskal Herria which as we know (yawn yawn) stretches from Navarra to Southern France and is home to over 4 million people who do not speak Basque .

Jayzhsus they don't even say gora gora or dance the little gigs or wear the effing berets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_numbe...akers

if anyone wants to give the Basques solidarity then the first thing they do is stop listening to ETA apologists, giving them space or paying any heed to their warped half century old - anachronistic shite

No irony

Wed Aug 12, 2009 15:57

"When the above poster used the line " you may not agree with their decision but if you're going to rant and rave like a hysteric then nobody is going to take you seriously", did he or she not see any irony in it at all?"

No, I didn't. You might need to explain your understanding of the word "irony", it doesn't match mine anyway. When somebody compared the behaviour of Seomra Spraoi in this matter to racist segregation in the southern states of the USA, it was indeed time to accuse them of ranting and raving like a hysteric. Nothing ironic about this at all - just a common-sense statement that you need to calm down, stop ranting and develop a sense of proportion if you want people to take you seriously.

Tell us Padraig, since you don't consider that statement about 50's Alabama to be hysterical, do you think that the Seomra Spraoi collective belongs in the same category as George Wallace? This whole argument is turning into a complete farce

Long live the diversity of languages!

by Diarmuid Breatnach - Dublin Irish Basque Committee

Fri Aug 14, 2009 13:57

With friends like that Seomra won't need enemies (and we are not enemies but we are very much opposed to those actions). I refer to the "my centre, right or wrong" chorus and the other one attacking the cultural rights of Irish and Euskara speakers. The ignorance displayed there was astonishing but to take a few of the points: Inconveniently for Eurocentrists, Mandarin and Hindi/Urdu are actually the languags with the most native speakers world-wide, Spanish is third and English fourth. Euskara (Basque) and Irish are a long way down the list with about a million and over 1.5 million respectively (Source: Wikepedia, not exactly a Basque publicity organ). Oh, wouldn't it be a wonderful world if all other languages disappeared and left us with English and Spanish? Then they could fight it out and the winner could force all others to speak only theirs. Is a language's value to be determined by the number of people who speak it? Or to put it another way, by the military and economic might of its heartland? And once a language has attained dominance are all others within its sphere to crumble and die?

If that writer had read our letter he would have seen that the DIBSC takes no position on ETA and, indeed, supporters of the Committee hold a variety of views on that organisation. However, it is true to say that ETA is a symptom of the problem and not the problem itself, which is the denial by two states of self-determination to a people of whom the majority wish to have it. Wherever there is oppression there tends also to be resistance and that takes many forms, some of which some people agree with and others which they may not.

It does seem that all that can usefully be said in this correspondence has now been said and that comments are tending towards repetition or diverging from the issues.

When Biarritz & Biscay spoke Basque... back in the days of yore.

Fri Aug 14, 2009 17:54

A language may be spoken or read or written or heard. Hindu and Urdu are extraordinary in their extension not least because we still consider mutually incomprehensible spoken dialects to be part of one hetrogenous linguistic category when grammar, orthography & lexical variation are considered by the people paid to worry about that sort of thing. Isn't it odd though that the people paid to worry about the kind of thing can read & write Hindu and Urdu and huge percentages of the mutually incomprehensible speakers may not?

Imperialism and convenient categorisation also comes to bear on the status of Mandarin whose mutual comprehension is based solely on the millenial imposition of common scripts the traditional or orthodox and simplified hanyu / pongyong pinyin. There are over 60 languages accepted by the PRC as being spoken in their vast state.

No speaker of any minority langauge should as no person confined to the languages of English and Spanish alone ought consider that the most spoken languages are simply the result of imperialism or that their status as such belies any peculiar cultural benefit. Nor had we better assign geographical relevance to the current placements of any language.

As an anarchist and a linguist of good conscience, I refuse to see any reason why the next generations of Europeans are taught Chinese and Arabic and Urdu and Hindi in primary schools. I can really not see it would do them any harm. Likewise I refuse to accept ideas of nationhood based on the promotion of one language especially when such a nationhood has advanced not one iota of its destiny towards self-determination for the simple inability of many to define where the place is.

There are it appears some words and expressions you just can't translate from langauges like Gaeilge, Euskera, Castillian, English, Catalan to each other as simply as an insult to the mythical rogue greyhound in the wood worrying the last sweet milking cow can bounce around the blogosphere of animal activism. we do not understand the north korean because we are weak and do not strive to accept wisdom production quotas

I reckon amongst the words and phrases lost in such translation somewhere in the vastness of Basque nationalism are included : permanent, unequivocal, sorry and most worrying of all a precise definition of where Euskal Herria begins and where it ends. The little maps in the illustrations always wreck my head. I'd want an exact boundary you know so we can see the exclaves and inclaves.

Surely no supporter of the place precise or imprecise would insist that everyone there speak Euskera? That would be silly and extreme and unpopular abroad.

So why don't we see all the other little bits of their autonomous indentity? Without the three little letters and the constant statement of the drearily obvious - there is a problem which includes the Spanish and French states. Then we could get to solutions this side of Nostradamus (who translates very badly by the way to horrible millenial consequences).

Number of comments per page

Upcoming Events

New Events

Other Press

User Preferences

Feeds

Blog Feeds

Anti-Empire

Human Rights in Ireland

Lockdown Skeptics

Voltaire Network

Resistance to Injustice is Good -- not "Authoritarianism"!

Comments (31 of 31)