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National - Event Notice
Saturday July 04 2009
02:00 PM

All-Ireland Rally For Life

category national | rights and freedoms | event notice author Wednesday July 01, 2009 17:36author by Katy - Rally For Life Report this post to the editors

04/07/09 2pm @ Garden of Remembrance

IRELAND IS STILL ONE OF ONLY 3 EUROPEAN
COUNTRIES WHERE ABORTION IS NOT LEGAL –
HELP US TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!!

IRELAND IS STILL ONE OF ONLY 3 EUROPEAN
COUNTRIES WHERE ABORTION IS NOT LEGAL –
HELP US TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!!

Every year, millions of unborn children are aborted throughout Europe and the world. Against all odds, and because Irish people have made their pro-life views heard, Ireland remains one of the only EU countries that protects its unborn children from abortion.

Under constant pressure from the EU and the powerful pro-abortion lobby, the Irish people have maintained their pro-life ethos. But we need to act to keep it that way, and to ensure that we also speak up against the anti-life threats of euthanasia and stem cell research.

So if you take just one pro-life action this year - let this be it!

WHERE: Garden of Remembrance, DUBLIN 1, IRELAND
WHEN: SATURDAY 4TH JULY 2009
TIME: 2 PM

Related Link: http://www.rallyforlife.net
author by Mark Cpublication date Wed Jul 01, 2009 20:06Report this post to the editors

Well done for organising this. I think it will show that there are more people in favour of the Irish pro-life stance in Ireland than is sometimes given credit for.

Mark.

author by calm head - respectpublication date Wed Jul 01, 2009 20:44Report this post to the editors

Sorry I can't be in Dublin on Saturday to come out in opposition to your oddly titled 'March for Life'.

The thousands of women who are forced to travel every year or tormented by rogue pregnancy agencies that give false information do not need further harassment or intimidation by you in the form of this march.

It's great that you have time and energy for mobilisation and demonstration - please do it for the common good and take a positive approach. If you want real positive change and protection of children you could - campaign for free contraception, children's rights, proper sex education, free childcare, improvement in maternity services, better support for single mothers and low-income parents, free impartial crisis pregnancy agencies and proper regulation of crisis pregnancy agencies, and free, impartial life-long parenting advice services.

author by Pete.publication date Wed Jul 01, 2009 20:56Report this post to the editors

We just export the problem and pretend it's not an Irish problem.

Last year 4,600 women who gave Irish addresses had abortions in Britain.
A bit down on previous years but not by much.
Not counting the many women who did NOT give their home address.

Statistics:

http://www.safeandlegalinireland.ie/sl_stats.html

Quote:
"At least 123,258 women travelled from Ireland to the UK for abortions between January 1980 and December 2005.
5,585 women travelled to the UK for abortions in 2005. Women aged between 20 – 30 years represented the majority of those who travelled to Britain for abortion services in 2004."..

Out of sight out of mind...............While the rest of the world,especially the British Abortion Industry, simply laugh at our supposed "Zero" statistic.

author by Pro-lifer - nonepublication date Sat Jul 04, 2009 00:50Report this post to the editors

"the British Abortion Industry".... how appropriate! I'd underline the word 'industry'.

I wish I could be there because I would march in support.

I think it's disingenuous to present this situation as 'an uncaring Ireland hiding its problems by exporting them'. While it seems on the surface a clever argument, abortion is not just any old 'problem'. It's not as if someone was going to Amsterdam to get stones because it is not permitted here.

Abortion - apart from when it's the side-result of medical procedures to save a mother's life - is the intentional killing of an unborn human being. Irish people in majority are simply not yet ready to accept the killing of their unborn children. If one day, they so choose, it will be a sad day for Ireland. It will be a democratic decision I'll have to respect as law - but not necessarily accept, as I could continue to campaign for its overturn. We must each live according to the principles we believe in, whether or not others agree. I'm sure the pro-abortion lobby see it that way too, and that's their right.

Apart from going into all the moral and logical issues here, and accepting there are also dreadful situations where compassion is called for, the idea of us 'exporting' the problem is simply disingenuous.

No, we are not 'exporting' the problem. If someone is determined enough to travel abroad to do something immoral or wrong (in the sense of Natural Law alone even), while you might try and dissuade them, help them find another solution and so on, you ultimately can't stop them. You certainly don't have to facilitate them. And moreover you don't have to accept being accused of 'exporting' the problem because you do not wish to facilitate something you do not agree with.

What else is Ireland supposed to do, if not cave in to the pro-abortion lobby's demand for legalized abortion here? I suppose we could extend Ireland's jurdistiction and prosecute people who travel abroad for abortions upon their return. At least then Ireland couldn't be accused of 'sweeping the problem under the carpet'. Perhaps that's something to campaign for, and it has already been done in other areas of legislation. For example Britain has laws whereby people travelling abroad to abuse children can be prosecuted on their return to the UK, Ireland is trying to pass laws to allow those involved in directing gang activity abroad to be prosecuted here. It's a strange legal concept, and not one I agree with personally. It makes a kind of 'virtual jurdistiction' where people can be prosecuted on the basis of citizenship. Civil law should cover what's legal in a particular country and not what's legal for citizens of that country no matter where they are.

My feeling is that the government is trying to show some modicum of compassion by turning a blind eye, but does not wish to facilitate this action further against the wishes of the majority of the electorate. So accusing them of 'exporting' the problem could simply have the reverse effect as well.

author by Tompublication date Sun Jul 05, 2009 02:11Report this post to the editors

The rally was a great success - the sun shone and thousands of people, young and old, turned out in support of the unborn. Looking forward to next year's rally in Belfast!

author by Ericpublication date Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:24Report this post to the editors

I have heard about your march today, I'm realy upset that I didn't come, maybe next time, but I very happy that people want to defend unborn kids.

author by marximuspublication date Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:02Report this post to the editors

Pro-Life groups are gas. their defence of the "life" itself seems to end at birth. they never seem to give a shit about the babies of Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else for that matter. What about the 30,000+ kids who die from easily preventable diseases in the the third world every day. strange bedfellows too - the catholic church, which has done more to ruin the lives of tens of thousands of children than any other institution.

There was also that case down the country recently where a mother who was abusing her kids, went to court to get an injunction against social services taking the kids into care. The report stated that her children where always cold and hungry and where often left alone while the mother went to the pub. The mother eventually admitted to gross neglect and to forcing her eldest son to have sex with her. Guess who put up the money to (successfully) get the injunction..... Mina Bean Ui Chroibin, prominant anti-abortionist. She has been a member/supporter of a long list of far-right anti-abortion catholic nutter groups which make the Taliban look like softies.

Related Link: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mother-from-hel....html
author by someone said to mepublication date Sun Jul 05, 2009 15:49Report this post to the editors

Try looking for a rented flat if you have a small child, especially as a single parent. It's then that you find out what all these pro-life folks think of children.

author by Pro-liferpublication date Sun Jul 05, 2009 17:02Report this post to the editors

Nice try Marximus.

Not all pro-lifers fit neatly into the category you describe as only caring about life up to the point of birth. I think you are generalizing from a section of the so-called "gun-totin' religious right" that support politicians like Bush.

I am trying to protest about ALL the killing. To me, the religious far-right and 'liberal' left have both got it wrong. Follow their policies and it seems at the end of the day someone dies all the same. On one side it'll be Iraqi and Afghani kids who bite the dust, murdered under a hail of bullets or cluster bombs. On the other it'll be unborn children who don't get a few years' shot at life, murdered in the womb by a variety of techniques just as horrible as being blown up by a cluster bomb. In short, bad news all round.

I hold that ALL life is sacred. I am against the death penalty for the same reason. Yet the death penalty is effectively what is being advocated for some unfortunate human beings who arrive along at an inconvenient moment or in an unpleasant manner (e.g rape) through no fault of their own.

For the same reason I am vociferously against loonies who shoot doctors involved in performing abortions, or bombing the clinics. I can understand the loonies' frustration at a system that illogically permits the killing of fellow humans, but the problem is hardly going to be solved by killing even more people. Instead it means becoming as bad as the very thing you protest.

+ "strange bedfellows too - the catholic church, which has done more to ruin the lives of tens of thousands of children than any other institution"

Not all pro-lifers are Catholic. There are many protestant, Jewish, Orthodox and other denomination and no-denomination pro-lifers, and abortion would probably be already slapped into the so-called UN Charter of Human Rights were it not for the on-going opposition of Islamic countries.

There's no excuse for the child abuse or cover up perpetrated by the various Christian churches (including but not exclusively Catholic) but I suppose you've included in your estimates above the work of people like Mother Teresa (to name just one) who has salvaged the lives and dignities of thousands upon thousands of children who were regarded as little more than trash by the society in which they lived. I've met some of them in person and it is hard to believe the transformation she - and her fellow nuns - wrought in their lives. There are Christian missionaries all over the world working hard on behalf of poor people and children, trying to stop them from being commercially or sexually exploited, standing up for them. And occasionally losing their lives as a result.

And you have also included in your calculations that secular state-run orphanages in former Soviet block countries that are almost a by-word for neglect and cruelty.

"Someone said to me" - I am sad to hear that you - or someone who told you - had such bad experiences finding a flat on the basis of being a single parent. I presume that when you - or they - were refused, it was explained to them that it was on religious grounds and that the person refusing was a pro-lifer?

For what it's worth, may I make two observations - if you - or your friend - has been turned down on this basis, remember you're in good company. Mary - mother of Jesus - was effectively a single mother too for a while. I think the Gospel makes it clear compassion is called for.

But anyway, apart from that, in spite of all the difficulties involved, it is a lot easier to be single parent now than 30 or 40 years ago. Though there's stll room for improvement, we've come a long way.

1) there's far less (or almost none) stigma attached to being a single parent these days
2) there is a lot of state help - rent allowance, social welfare payments etc., that make it possible to survive; if not grandly, at least adequately.
3) Lone parents can still do some part-time work without affecting their social welfare payments.
4) Social welfare payments for a lone parent with one child (including rent allowance etc.,) can approach 1,000E a month. Not a lot with today's prices, but almost as much as some working people earn after tax. You can check these figures on the Department of Social Welfare website (obviously they are only an approximation)

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW4/Pages/s5.aspx#5.4

That's a pretty good system, especially when you compare what's on offer in other countries.

I for one don't mind paying social welfare taxes to support single parents. It's a far better option than having parents-to-be stressed that they can't afford to support a baby and choosing abortion. I consider it money well-spent if it helps children to live, parents to cope and reduces the number of abortions. It has to be a proportionate and reasonable level of support though: it wouldn't be fair to expect the working population to sustain the non-working population in a style of life above their own, though I think that's rarely the case anyway.

In short, 'money' & 'stigma' are no longer very valid grounds on which to pursue abortion.

And I have had both friends and family in this situation, so yes, I have had some personal experience of it.

author by Pro-liferpublication date Sun Jul 05, 2009 17:36Report this post to the editors

I should add for what it's worth that I personally have marched in protest against the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, the invasion of Lebanon. Not once or twice, but numerous times. I did this precisely because I believe in the sanctity of human life and that these for-profit wars are an evil thing.

Nor were all these marches a piece of cake. While the Gardai marshalling most of the marches couldn't have been nicer, those at Shannon airport when Dubya arrived in 2003 were an altogether different proposition: while I didn't see anyone being manhandled or anything like that, there was a general atmosphere of intimidation and angry aggressiveness. They took enough photos of us to fill dozens of family albums, enough film footage to make a few Hollywood blockbusters and rode their horses along in the middle of us to make sure no-one stepped out of line. For a generally law-abiding citizen like myself it was an eye-opener and showed me what standing up for your beliefs might cost you.

But at one march the contradictions of the pro-abortion position were brought home to me: we had finished our anti-war march and were hoarse from shouting in protest at the madness being inflicted around the world in the name of 'democracy' (yeah, right) and the lives lost as a result. We were wrapping up by the time we arrived at the GPO on O'Connell St.

Dublin city centre always seems to have a few protests going on any weekend, and that Saturday there was a small group praying the rosary with placards against abortion. One marcher commented to me with disgust 'look - the religious right. How ironic they should be here the same time as us' (or to that effect). I thought for while, wondering how to answer this narrow world view, so said "well, I suppose we're all here for the same reason at the end of the day - to try and stop people getting killed"

My fellow marcher unfortunately didn't see my point at all and quickly disagreed. So I let it drop, it wasn't the time or place for discord or fighting, we had had a good march, it'd have undone some of that good. The rest could be left for another day.

author by Tommypublication date Sun Jul 05, 2009 23:16Report this post to the editors

That last post by Pro-Lifer is interesting, in that he tried to discuss with a fellow anti-war marcher the link he saw between marching against the Iraq war and marching in an anti-abortion parade.

I recall that the anti-war protestor, Fr. Daniel Berrigan SJ, along with Rev. Jesse Jackson (a civil rights campaigner) wrote for a pamphlet in the USA making a similar connection. Of all the civil rights and anti-Vietnam War campaigners in America during the period c. 1960-1980 these two individuals stood out when the abortion rights movement became stridently active during the late 60s into the 80s. As activists on the left they dissented from the feminist consensus on the abortion issue. I doubt whether in Europe they have had many counterparts.

author by Corkboipublication date Tue Jul 07, 2009 23:39Report this post to the editors

I have read some of the above comments.People seem to diss the Pro Life Movement as Roman Catholic.

Which I feel is very untrue.Across every country you will find groups of people who oppose abortion.

From Greek Orthodox Monks in Greece.Jews in Israel.Buddhists in Thailand.Protestants in the UK.

While America pro Life marches are as multi cultural as they are muti faith.

I find the hardest thing about Abortion is people can now have their foetus examined for diseases such as Spina Bifida and Down Syndrome.
Since working on a voluntary basis with disabled kids.I simply couldn't see how anyone could find that child just as rewarding as a child fit and healthy.

I was not always Pro Life and not being Catholic.Sometimes I found the Pro Life Movement here a but tough.

With decades of the Rosaries etc,But it the spirit of tolerance and the fact I accept I live in a country where most people at least claim to be Catholic.I got over my concerns and joined the movement.

I don't hate girls who have an abortion.Sometimes they are demonised too much.But nor do I fall for its a hard decision for everyone.

I like the adds on the radio about crisis pregnancies where girls say I am still goin to go to college.I am still going to travel etc.
Having a baby is not the end of the world.

My friend is a single mother.As she said herself one day,Having two parents is easier on the child and easier on the Parents but if she could go back in time and think before she got pregnant she still would do it.Her child has brought her joy and tears.Like any child does to any parent.

author by anonpublication date Fri Jul 10, 2009 01:30Report this post to the editors

funny enough I agree with you!

Of course a child can be the best thing ever for a person and the child! That is why I am pro-choice.
Yay! if you want to have the kid! All the better!

But I can tell you, as a rape victim, that if any piece of scum tried to force me to give birth, i would either kill myself or commit murder. I would honestly rather die. I take precautions, have coil fitted but you never know. No way in hell could I go through that.

Hence, I support choice, not force.

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