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Seomra Spraoi Is back

category dublin | anti-capitalism | feature author Tuesday November 11, 2008 21:52author by Seomra Spraoi - Automonous, anti capitalist, social center project Report this post to the editors

They'd never gone away y'know

featured image
We haven't gone away, ya know

Seomra Spraoi opens new autonomous social centre.
Seomra Spraoi is back. After 10 long Seomra-less months a new home has been found, and work is underway to transform the space into a fully functioning social centre. A lot has changed since being forced from our last space. We've been pretty busy too.

Since moving out of our last address (at Mary's Abbey), we've been kept busy organising Ireland's first social centre gathering, hosted a large talk at the Dublin Anarchist Bookfair, and ran lots of fundraising gigs/quizzes. We've provided catering, kids' activities & entertainment at the Grassroots Gathering, organised a beach party, several people's kitchens & kids days. We've also restructured our working groups & learnt a lot about fire safety.


Not to mention scouring Dublin for a suitable new premises, (some of which we've added pictures below for) an experience which only compounded for us just how difficult it is to access space in our city. We've also contributed to the 2008 publication '"What's this place?" a booklet with stories from radical social centres in the United Kingdom and Ireland at http://socialcentrestories.wordpress.com/
 
In October our search came to an end when we moved into 10 Belvedere Court, just off Gardiner St., in Dublin's North inner city. This two storey building is ideal for all sorts of cultural and political activities, but we're still missing one crucial component: you!
 
The new Seomra Spraoi wants to be an active hub of positive action. As billions of our taxes are spent covering the bets of banks, it's the elderly, students, those on welfare and ordinary workers that now have to bear the brunt of recession. There never has been a time in recent years where the naked ugliness of capital has been so obviously on display. You know that's shit, but now's your chance to do something about about it.. We want it to be a space where all can develop some of the skills and tools needed to dismantle capitalism, a space and project to help take back control of our own lives, shape our own fates and that of the city we live in. We want to turn this (for now) empty building into a hub of Do It Yourself activity
Dublin needs alternatives to the exploitative, boring, melancholic reality that too often characterises life in the city. Seomra Spraoi is an open experiment in non-hierarchical organisation and another way to live, work, resist, and create right now. So if you want to organise a workshop, exhibit some art, start a revolution, screen a film, hold a talk, develop a community based-project or explore the possibilities and politics of social centres then get involved in the brand new Seomra Spraoi. It's not about waiting for things to happen, but about making them happen. Already many groups using the space are doing just that.
 
At present our new building hosts activities, meetings, & activities for Choice Ireland, Revolutionary Anarcha-feminist Group, Shell to Sea, Workers Solidarity Movement, Irish Climate Camp, & the Soupstone Kindergarten, as well as all the Seomra Spraoi Working groups. Whilst the building is a bit of a building site right now, we have two fully functional meeting spaces and we hope, with your help, to be up and running by Christmas
 
Our new building needs a serious makeover: walls to be built, others to be knocked down, a kitchen to be constructed, a café space to be opened – maybe even a garden to grow. We've held out to get a building with ground floor & wide doors & aim to make the building accessible with the addition of whellchair ramps & toilet for disabled people. To make all this happen we need to get stuck into some serious handy work and we need plenty of skills and equipment. If any of this sounds like something you could help with please get in touch at the email address below. So, whilst the building might have the look of a space under going work, we aspire to have that completed by December. Right now though we have two large meeting rooms and can host other activites so get in touch.
Seomra Spraoi is a strictly not-for-profit operation, but unfortunately the world we're in isn't.  As an anti-capitalist project we seek to separate out the financial costs of running and maintaining the building from the range of activities and project that happen within it, or that are borne out of it. We want to make the relationships between the social centre and the people, groups, and others who use/participate in the space to be as undistorted by money as possible. We don't depend on a few big donations and we neither get them nor look for them. Fundraising remains a part of our activities, a part without which the project would simply and realistically not be possible.
We organise regular fundraisers and if you can help by organising a gig, exhibition, or table quiz – or something else entirely – this is a massive contribution. The other two ways to contribute financially are through the PayPal system on our website ( www.seomraspraoi.org ) or by taking out a standing order. By setting up a standing order, for even a small amount, you help the project become more stable and effective. It might seem like a very little amount of money but it's a bit like the little fish - big fish idea. The project is part of a grassroots movement, and that is a strength we want to build upon and encourage. The project's desire to remain strong and autonomous is made real by sharing out the responsibility for making it so.
Signing up for even a small sum each month affords the project a much needed element of stability. We reckon if we can get 100 people contributing €20 a month, Seomra Spraoi's finacial future would be guaranteed – which means we could really get down to the business of making an alternative, open-to-all social space in the heart of Dublin. If you'd like to set up a satnding order contact us at seomraspraoi@gmail.com
 
 
But of course, the most important thing to do is to GET DOWN AND GET INVOLVED WITH THE NEW SEOMRA SPRAOI
 
We're still busy getting the building in ship-shape, but we'll publicise regular opening hours as soon as we can. In the meantime, however, we want to enable anyone who wants to check the place out and think up plans and projects to fill it with, and turn it into a thriving social centre and a real alternative in Dublin. Just email us at seomraspraoi@gmail.com, and keep an eye on our website ( www.seomraspraoi.org ) and our MySpace (www.myspace.com/seomraspraoi )  and of course Indymedia.ie for news of upcoming events.

Seomra Spraoi Aims and Principles. Below these are principles that are in the process of being discussed and agreed

Aims

To create self-managed, autonomous social spaces in
Dublin. The purposes for which are to:-

Provide safe, positive space, enabling people to be informed about and empowered through engagement in struggles for a more just, equitable & sustainable society.
Provide resources for, and facilitate the needs of activists and campaign groups, enabling them to meet, discuss, plan, create links, recuperate, strengthen, consolidate, re-energise, and develop new ideas.
Provide an environment in which people can access, create, play, and enjoy, music, art, theatre, film, poetry, etc; exploring and integrating ideas of creativity with activism.
Demonstrate and promote viable alternatives to the profit-making, hierarchical power structures and social relations of capitalism - based on grassroots direct democracy, co-operation, consensus, non-profit, social justice and environmental sustainability
To promote and support people having democratic control of their lives and the world around them, their workplace, communities etc.

Principles

< Autonomy and self-management >
Seomra Spraoi aims to run independently of local authority, government, church, business, or other controlling body. It is managed collectively by the people who use it.

< Openness and inclusion >
Seomra Spraoi seeks to be open and inclusive, providing a space that is welcoming to everyone irrespective of age, race, ethnic background, gender, class, sexuality and ability. We encourage - and aim to provide equal access to - participation in Seomra Spraoi.

< Horizontal (non-hierarchical) organising >
Seomra Spraoi believes in organising without leaders or bosses, and in everyone having an equal say. When power is shared equally in a group, it can be more effective and sustainable - as well as empowering - for all involved.

< Collective decision making >
We reach decisions by consensus, as far as practically possible. Consensus decision-making is about trying to find common ground and solutions that are acceptable to all. This attempts to ensure that everyone's opinions, ideas and concerns in Seomra Spraoi are taken into account.

< Co-operation and mutual aid >
In a world dominated by competition and conflict, we believe that working together, sharing knowledge, skills and resources, and helping each other out, builds strong communities and networks of support and friendship.

< Not for profit >
Seomra Spraoi is a not for-profit collective. Fixed bikes, food and drinks, information, books, internet access and meeting space are available either for free or in return for donations. We strive to make our activities genuinely affordable - and accessible - to all.

< Environmental Sustainability >
In an effort to minimise the ecological damage we cause, Seomra Spraoi tries to reuse/recycle as much as possible. From reused furniture, bike and computer parts to recycling our rubbish, an ecologically sustainable outlook is fundamental to Seomra Spraoi.

Principles currently being disscussed

All that happens at Seomra Spraoi is made possible by people freely giving their time and sharing the work of organising a social centre. With no wages or bosses involved, it's a
different kind of work. People contribute what and when they can. We work together to our collective goals, and on our own terms.

Seomra Spraoi is anti authoritarian, opposing the perpetual waste and exploitation generated by today's capitalist system and proposing one where everyone has a say in decisions that affect their lives in a spirit of mutual aid rather than competition. We support the people who struggle alongside us for real democracy everywhere.

Direct action means refusing to be a spectator, or waiting for someone else to do it for us. It is about taking back control of our lives and realising our potential to bring about change.

Some useful links
Ireland's first Social Center Gathering  - http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86848
Hidden History of social centres in Ireland   http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87044
What's this place?  http://socialcentrestories.wordpress.com/

Links to some of the groups and links that use the space. Check out what they get up to!
RAG. http://ragdublin.blogspot.com/
WSM http://www.wsm.ie
Shell to Sea http://www.corribsos.com
Choice Ireland http://choiceireland.blogspot.com/
Revolt video http://revoltvideo.blogspot.com/

Thanks to Michael R for making the montage used at the top.

10 Belvedere Court, off Gardiner St, Nth Inner City
10 Belvedere Court, off Gardiner St, Nth Inner City

Seomra Spraoi at the Anarchist Bookfair
Seomra Spraoi at the Anarchist Bookfair

Peoples Kitchen feed the masses at the Grassroots Gathering
Peoples Kitchen feed the masses at the Grassroots Gathering

Seomra Spraoi  host a 'Kids day' at The Shed
Seomra Spraoi host a 'Kids day' at The Shed

author by Seomra Spraoipublication date Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

some shots of the work far by the seomra collective, some more to do..

Patching up the roof
Patching up the roof

Back garden in the new Seomra
Back garden in the new Seomra

Getting the flor cleaned up
Getting the flor cleaned up

Team effort, getting the walls painted up
Team effort, getting the walls painted up

looking good, one of the large rooms in seomra spraoi
looking good, one of the large rooms in seomra spraoi

author by wry-fipublication date Tue Nov 11, 2008 13:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I like that last photo with the CEO's swivel chair. Now all the Vice President of the Seomra Spraoi Anti-Corporation needs are some plush matching leather sofas and armchairs and a smartly dressed personal secretary. You could try scrounging a walnut desk from one of those bank investment managers they ought to sack for the financial crisis.

Good work done, so best of luck to all concerned, including the kiddies' playgroup.

author by moderate anarchistpublication date Tue Nov 11, 2008 15:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Seomra’s last centre in Mary’s Abbey was closed by the Fire Authority for infringements of fire safety regulations following a complaint about a late night drinking party on the premises . As the indymedia report at the time said

“The Fire Authority were, supportive & apologetic, but ultimately had no choice but to close us down.”

Following the closure the collective reported that they were conducting an in-depth analysis of fire safety issues .Hopefully lessons have been learnt . Users of the new centre need to be assured that the premises are safe and in line with safety regulations.

author by Seomra Spraoipublication date Tue Nov 11, 2008 15:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

.

Recent  improv round at Seomra 'Table Quiz' fundraiser
Recent improv round at Seomra 'Table Quiz' fundraiser

Activity and fun for all at the recent Seomra Kids day at the Shed
Activity and fun for all at the recent Seomra Kids day at the Shed

Dj workshops for the under 5's in the Shed
Dj workshops for the under 5's in the Shed

Audio visual workshop at recent hallowen dinner in new Seomra
Audio visual workshop at recent hallowen dinner in new Seomra

The revolution wont wash itself!!
The revolution wont wash itself!!

author by dpublication date Tue Nov 11, 2008 20:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

a few weeks back but gives you a sense of the space

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/89344
author by Fire Sergeantpublication date Tue Nov 11, 2008 21:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Seomra’s last centre in Mary’s Abbey was closed by the Fire Authority for infringements of fire safety regulations following a complaint about a late night drinking party on the premises . As the indymedia report at the time said

“The Fire Authority were, supportive & apologetic, but ultimately had no choice but to close us down.”

Following the closure the collective reported that they were conducting an in-depth analysis of fire safety issues .Hopefully lessons have been learnt . Users of the new centre need to be assured that the premises are safe and in line with safety regulations."

No offence, but the way you put this across it seems like it was just some sort of routine fire check after a noise complaint, where as I think anyone with a bit of common sense and cop on who were to look at the report below and the event in question can see that there was definately an underlying political motivation behind the closing down, considering the amount of Gardai involved alone.
That said, its good to point out that Seomra Spraoi do take these things seriously, they've been taken into account and that we now have a new Seomra (almost) up and running.

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/85312
author by Supporterpublication date Wed Nov 12, 2008 15:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Fair play to all involved for gettin teh Seomra back up and running
Looking forward to checking out the new space..

author by Antainepublication date Wed Nov 12, 2008 17:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi Hi,

Can someone give me a brief overview of what seomra spraoi actually is??
Who runs it and who does it cater for?

Go raibh míle maith agat
Antaine

author by gavpublication date Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

conas thú antaine - tá tuilleadh eolas ar an nasc myspace thíos ansin. slán agus beannacht.

Related Link: http://www.myspace.com/seomraspraoi
author by dunkpublication date Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

congrats, long may you exist and keep bringing more smiles to dublin

doc made in last stage of seomra spraoi project, Submitted as a group college assignment for TV Production course in Coláiste Dhúlaigh

Caption: Embedded video Youtube Video


author by Antainepublication date Thu Nov 13, 2008 14:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Dia duit,

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Gav. Feicfidh mé ar sin nuair a beidh mé abhaile. Níl cead agam a féiceáil é san obair.

Le meas
Antaine

author by db spraoipublication date Sun Nov 16, 2008 17:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"We're having a work day in Seomra Spraoi this Tuesday, the 18th.
There's plenty to be done with the new building before regular and
open events can start taking place, so come and lend a hand.

If you possess any skills or tools, please bring them, but if not,
there'll still be lots of jobs to do.
We'll be there from midday. The address is 10 Belvedere Court, just
north of Mountjoy Square. Map here: http://www.seomraspraoi.org

If you have better things to be doing of a weekday afternoon, we're
hoping to have another work day next weekend, so keep your ears pealed
if you're interested."

Related Link: http://www.seomraspraoi.org
author by anarkittypublication date Sun Nov 16, 2008 19:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

hey seomra spraoi hedz :) just want 2 thank those of u who attended the grassroots gathering in cork this past weekend 4 bringing us ur lovely energy :) xx

author by Ariel Silverapublication date Mon Nov 17, 2008 19:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sorry everyone, but would you mind letting the rest of us know what you're saying there?

It's not very inclusive to start on in Irish, considering that many of us dirty foreigners use the site every day.

Kind regards,

Ariel Silvera

author by redjadepublication date Mon Nov 17, 2008 20:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Great to see all the activity behind the latest incarnation of Seomra Spraoi.

Here in Budapest Hungary we had Közért as something fo a small social centre - but the people involved in the InfoShop, FreeShop and Radical Cinema nights have decided to move to the new site of Tűzraktér. Which is in the centre of the city and has easier access for all. Even if we have less space in some respects, the public access and the surrounding buzz of creativity of the surrounding artist communes, trendy artsy fartsy pub, dance hall, etc etc will make it a better location, IMHO.

check out:
Budapest FreeShop & InfoShop Moves to Tűzraktér
http://lmv.hu/node/3250

Tűzraktér - Independent Cultural Centre
http://tuzrakter.hu

Budapest's InfoShop/FreeShop/Rad Cinema No longer at Közért, now at the new T&#369;zraktér on Heged&#369; utca
Budapest's InfoShop/FreeShop/Rad Cinema No longer at Közért, now at the new Tűzraktér on Hegedű utca

Related Link: http://LMV.hu/redjade
author by Mark Cpublication date Mon Nov 17, 2008 20:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ariel,

Firstly, Antaine asked a question in English and said "Thank you very much" before signing off.

Next, Gav said that "you can find lots of information about Seomra Spraoi on their myspace page."

Then, Antaine said "thanks a lot, I'll have a look at it when I get home. I'm not allowed to do so in work."

I think that is all.

Mark Conroy.

author by Ariel Silverapublication date Tue Nov 18, 2008 01:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thank you very much, Mark!

author by Not Irishpublication date Tue Nov 18, 2008 08:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

but that doesn't mean we can't learn to read a cúpla focal. What's stopping you learning?

author by Ariel Silverapublication date Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

God forbid that you make accomodations for people who come from different cultures, no? Who may want to take part in the open political discussions of Indymedia, no?

On top of all the other requirements us foreigners face in Irish soil, such as competing unfairly with other Irish people for jobs and housing (and then be accused of stealing Irish jobs!), now we have to learn the language too?

Yes, of course, it's always us foreigners who don't want to integrate. I am sorry if I don't have the time or inclination to learn Irish. It's a beautiful language, but it is not practical for me to learn when I need other skills to survive which require my time, as a non-European trans person living in Europe.

I guess what I'm saying is that it is rude, in the current context of Ireland, to just start off in Irish when there are many of us involved in Irish civil society who do not come from an Irish background.

author by rí dubhpublication date Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ta bron (agus piosa beag fearg) orm leis an duine sin - ni cheapaim gur tuigeann se/si stair an teanga. Da mbeadh muideanna in ar chonai i tir eile, i Europ, ni duirtfidh se/si aon rud faoin teanga diffruil, glacfaidh se/si leis an cultuir diffruil agus deanfaidh se/si an obair chun cupla focal a fhoglaim. Cen fath nach bhfuil muideanna abalta caint as Gaeilge? An bhfuil tu as an USA, Ariel?

I'm sad (and a little bit angry) with this person - I dont think he/she understands the history of the language. If we lived in another country, in Europe, he/she wouldnt say anything about the different language, he/she would accept the different culture and would do the work to learn a few words. Why are we not able to speak in Irish? Are you from the USA, Ariel?

author by Amazedpublication date Tue Nov 18, 2008 13:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Only in Ireland would leftists complain about the indigenous people posting in their indigenous language rather than the language of the colonisers.

What language do you think "Seomra Spraoi" is by the way?

author by Antainepublication date Tue Nov 18, 2008 13:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi Ariel,

Apologies. I try write as often as I can in Irish (Im only a learner myself). I do it without thinking sometimes.
I understand your point though so pardon my ignorance and please accept my apology

Antaine

author by Ariel Silverapublication date Tue Nov 18, 2008 19:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

With two patronising statements above, let's do this. First, the nice stuff:

Antaine: Thanks, and I'm glad you understand my point.

To the rest:

Let's start with your stupid assumptions. First of all, I am not from the United States. Why should that matter? If you must know, I am from Argentina.

Second, the assumption that I don't know anything about the history of the language. I know plenty, plenty about Irish history, and Irish society as it stands today, having studied it and lived in it for almost a decade. Thank you for invalidating all of that.

Third, I am not a coloniser. Yes, Ireland has a history of oppression, yes the Irish language was suppressed by the English. But let's face facts, shall we? Ireland is no longer under the yoke of colonial rule. And Ireland is full, FULL, of foreigners now, many of us are activists.

I commend that there is such a huge effort to keep the language alive. I did NOT ask that it isn't spoken. Only that it is translated. Let me give you an example:

Oftentimes I am with a group of people and there will be a fellow Spanish or Italian speaker. I may converse with them in Spanish or Italian. However, if I see someone who doesn't speak those languages and they join the conversation, we switch back and translate what was just said. This is common courtesy.

Being a migrant in Ireland (and I'm in a position of relative privilege holding EU citizenship but still), there are many barriers for me in Irish society. Barriers of networking, of nationality and ethnicity. I am not allowed to vote, since I'm not Irish. I'm allowed less privileges when it comes to University fees. Hell, me and my parents have often faced blatant discrimination when going for jobs. And all of us, all three, are perfectly fluent in English.

In Ireland, when talking about ethnicity, I will not accept that I am oppressing the Irish by asking, simply, for a translation. Not when I'm an immigrant who is opressed in other ways, by Irish people, who are the majority. The Irish can no longer see themselves as an oppressed minority in their own country, not when Irish society oppresses so many in the basis of ethnicity (and I'm not going to get into areas of gender, class, etc, but these also count).

What I'm trying to highlight here is this. Indymedia is an activist site, an international network of sites, rather. And the point is to INclude people in activism, not EXclude them. I believe there is a need to realise that when you write in Irish, with no translation, you are excluding people. And it's rude, and very alienating to those of us who have spent a long, long time trying to integrate in Ireland, only to see the goalposts keep shifting.

I am not demanding people don't speak Irish, this is putting words in my mouth. But I don't think I'm being irrational in my request. Is there a reason why one should not provide a translation?

author by db spraoipublication date Tue Nov 18, 2008 22:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Some pretty nice digression there guys.. but now back to your scheduled programming:

There's still lots more work to be done in Seomra Spraoi, so we're calling two more work days this week, on Thursday 20th and Sunday 23rd, from midday to 6pm. Again there'll be lots of tasks for the experienced and inexperienced alike, but we'd like to put a special call out for people with skills (carpentry, gutters/drains, electrics, etc) and tools to come down, as there's a couple of larger projects that will require a few people with specialised knowledge.

Related Link: http://www.seomraspraoi.org/
author by Consensus seekerpublication date Wed Nov 19, 2008 19:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ariel a chara,

Since your native language is not English, perhaps you don't realise how your original post came across.

To me (and obviously to some others) it DID sound like "Don't speak Irish".

You didn't say "Could you please translate that for the benefit of those of us who don't speak Irish?" Instead, you aggressively challenged the person who spoke in their country's native language--almost accusing them of deliberately excluding you, which I'm sure was not the point.

I think this would be considered offensive in most countries, particularly those with a history of colonial language oppression.

It's a sensitive subject here. And part of successful immigration--and integration--is learning to recognise the sensitive subjects in your new country, and to treat them with the appropriate sensitivity.

Maybe next time. Mmkay?

author by Paul Baynes - Syriapublication date Sun Dec 07, 2008 03:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Aointaím le rí dubh, agas a chuid fhearg. Níl aon fadhb le píosa beag as Gaeilge. Níl cómhrá é, mar atá i sampla Ariel. Is alt é.

Ach tuigim cad atá le rá ag Ariel. Is deacar a bheith le daoine atá ag caint teanga aisteach.

Ach ar aon nós, maith sibhse i Seomra Spraoi.

author by regpublication date Sun Dec 07, 2008 16:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"I am not allowed to vote, since I'm not Irish. "

Everyone who is resident in the state is allowed to vote in the local elections, which elect city and county councils.

Anyone who is a citizen of the European Union is allowed to vote in the European Parliament Elections.

The elections are next June, you can pick up a registration form from a post office or download one from your local authority website. You need to register as soon as possible if you want to vote, as the register is finalised in February.

author by redjadepublication date Sun Dec 07, 2008 23:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Three MP3 interviews, not more than 4 mins each - the first is in hungarian, the next two in english....

MP3: FreeShop and InfoShop Interviews
http://lmv.hu/node/3330

If you find your path coming through central europe - drop by!

dsc_9524sm.jpg

author by Ariel Silverapublication date Mon Dec 08, 2008 14:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Oh, seriously, you guys are awesome. I looooove all the negative comments from people who disagree with me from a totally knee-jerk point of view.

"You don't know the history of the language!"
"You don't know the history of the Irish people!"
"You don't understand Irish society!"
"You haven't integrated enough!"

Thank you for treating me like a responsible adult whose opinions may merit discussions rather than knee-jerk reactions. Thank you for not contributing to 'otherising' me in the basis that I am foreign. And thank you for not contributing to the persistent ignorance that Irish people, even many on the left, have about immigrant issues. Cheers!

Here's some advice to you guys. Talk to any of your relatives who had to move to Britain or the US or elsewhere, and ask them what it's like to integrate into a culture that treats you as an 'other' all the goddamn time. Just shut up and listen, you may just learn something.

To: Reg:

I cannot vote in the Dail, nor on referendums. Yes, I can vote in local and EU elections. I don't know where that passes as full voting rights, but not where I come from. And I know this isn't a particularly Irish issue, I am just highlighting it so you can see that despite a decade of living in Ireland, I don't have now, nor will I ever have, equal voting rights as an Irish person.

author by kexilee.publication date Mon Dec 08, 2008 19:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Imagine if some activists were speaking a few sentences in Guarani on Argentina IMC, and someone from Ireland started giving out to them, saying that they should write only in Spanish for the benefit of visitors/immigrants to the country who can only speak Spanish. Would you defend the indigenous activists right to converse in their own language? I imagine you would. You should.

Instead of barking about being excluded - you could have easily asked in a nice and friendly manner if anyone could provide a translation, that you were interested in hearing what people had to say. Anyone who speaks Irish will happily speak English as well. Instead you got a bee in your bonnet immediately and took offence, and people kicked back against that (and rightly so). In fact, your attitide to people posting in Irish possibly excluded you more than a mere difference of language ever would.

Nobody disrespected you as a person or an immigrant by speaking in their own language, but you disrespected them with your high horse attitude and portraying yourself as some kind of victim, when nobody was out to exclude you in the first place. Get over it, there's another living language here, and people will speak it sometimes to each other not to exclude immigrants, but because they enjoy keeping it alive, it gives them identity, a respect for each other.

Do you think Seomra Spraoi is inclusive (place is open to all, etc), or exclusive - just because of their name??

(A friend of mine went to beginner/refresher Irish courses run by Conradh na Gaeilge, she was the only Irish person there! I dont think its beyond the means of anyone who's been here for ten years to give one hour a week for ten weeks to enjoy some simple terms and phrases.)

author by Conor. M - Think Tank, Swordspublication date Fri Dec 19, 2008 18:34author email liberalconormurphy at ymail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ariel Silvera,
I'm sure anyone here will be happy to translate to Bearla (English). Don't be so aggressive.... Seomrai Spraoi, Go raibh maith agat!

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