Is the CIA financing the NO campaign in Ireland ?

by Holy Ghost Father Tue Sep 30, 2008 01:05

Anthony Mcintyre comments:

"The Catholic Primate of Ireland, Cardinal Brady, speaking at the Humber Summer School in Ballina, and later on radio, outlined a major consideration behind the thinking of those ‘committed Christians’ who voted ‘no’ in the recent referendum. The European Union in their view was too secular. ‘The prevailing culture and social agenda within the EU would at least appear to be driven by the secular tradition rather than by the Christian memory and heritage of the vast majority of member states.’ Surely, if there is anything that should want to make us consider embracing the Lisbon Treaty it is that. The Cardinal is also reported to have complained of a ‘fairly widespread culture’ in Europe whereby religious matters are pushed into the private sphere. But this is precisely where they should go of their own volition. Religion as a strictly private matter is one more positive for Europe which might lead those of us with reservations about the Lisbon Treaty to hold our noses against some of those we stand shoulder to shoulder with."

http://thepensivequill.am/

by Biker Tue Sep 30, 2008 07:54

Declan Ganley is not the No Campaign. He is the ME campaign.

He has been put on a pedestal by the media as a convenient strawman to be knocked down (just as Justin Barrett was during Nice 2).

The No real No campaign was the Left (non Labour Party)

by Nil Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:15

Biker makes a good point - Ganley was the Big Money among the No-campaigning small fishes. It was the small fry leftwingers, nationalists and assorted distrusters of the Lisbon Treaty, however, who did the major work of doorstepping and leaflet dropping. Cardinal Brady has pinpointed one element of the No feeling among sections of referendum voters, namely the antipathy of Brussels establishment members to Europe's Judaeo-Christian cultural heritage. Obviously this aspect of the EU integration process was highlighted by Big Ears JB and his campaigning colleagues affiliated to Youth Defence. Many Catholics went against the wishes of the Bishops and The Irish Catholic newspaper by voting No. Even rightwing secularists are afraid of this independence of political sentiment among so many Catholics. Leftwing secularists are always overtly afraid, sometimes hysterically. The free distribution Alive catholic monthly shows an independence under the direction of its Dominican editor, Fr. Brian McKevitt OP, that disturbs the liberal, conservative and leftwing mainstream. Expect pressure subtle and not so subtle to be exerted on the producers of that publication.

There were several reasons why so many people voted No to Lisbon, and no one campaigning group can plausibly claim that their efforts in particular carried the day. Those who want to campaign against Lisbon 2 (actually some have begun campaigning already, just as a regrouping Yes campaign and its media supporters have been campaigning for the past couple of months) would do well to exercise some humility and speak carefully when dealing with a complicated and sometimes subtle electorate.

by MichaelY - No Means NO!! Tue Sep 30, 2008 13:35

Those of us who were part of the left wing NO to Lisbon campaign are following carefully the debate about the defeat of the Irish political elite on the June 12 th referendum. We are taking note of the desperate efforts coming from both European right and centre, and the local YES cabal, to push the Irish people to accept in a second referendum the original, or a slightly revamped, version of Lisbon (in itself incorporating 95% of the European Constitution).We have been restrained in our commentary so far and careful to study and understand in detail how the political elite may manage to overcome its deep crisis. The same way we studied and analysed Lisbon as early as last November, we will enter the fray when, as James Connolly said, the time is ripe. Capitalism has far too many serious problems right now and as hard as he may try Cowen won't convince anybody that the unprecedented disaster of the banks and the financial institutions is due to Lisbon being defeated!

The debate in this thread, however, both amusing and tragic that it is, requires a short response:
(1) Ganley and Libertas were not and will not be "the leaders" of the NO campaign. Despite the huge amounts spent, and the space provided to them by both electronic and print media, their two main platform planks of tax and the Commissioner issues were, at best, marginal in the people making up their mind on Lisbon.
(2) Every poll and our very extensive door-to-door experience right across the 32 Counties showed that European militarisation, the further erosion of Irish neutrality already in its death knell given the 1.5 million US soldiers who have passed through Shannon on the way and back from the killing fields, the threat on Trade Union rights following the three European Court of Justice decisions, the further erosion of EU democracy and, above all, the total distrust of politicians by our young, women and working class people were the main factors of the NO vote. Coupled with the horrific arrogance shown by the FF/FG/Labour/Green cabal, the Bishops, IBEC and their friends.
(3) Ganley/Libertas and COIR played a role no doubt. But it was the coalescence of a whole array of political forces, across classes but with a significant focus in working class, farmer and fishing communities, that won the day. And it is that array that now says NO MEANS NO!! LISBON IS DEAD!!
Finally, the points made above in the debate that Ganley is being pushed around as a bullyboy are correct. The man has just asked for Georgia to join NATO and has not had a word to say about European militarisation or the help provided by the EU to Israel. The media have pumped him up because he is part of the elite - CIA or no CIA!! But to listen to a variety of MEPS attack Ganley when they themselves have consistently refused to account for their income and expenditure takes the biscuit.

We, from our part, have to continue our struggle for a democatic, demilitarised and social Europe. It's half time in the match and we are 1-0 ahead. Both teams are now in their dressing rooms and you can hear the fans and the trainers shouting their heart out. We are ahead and we intend to stay there. Let them come. And we know that our best defence is our offensive capacity. Ganley or no Ganley!

by Roger Cole - Peace & Neutrality Alliance Tue Sep 30, 2008 16:15 pana at eircom dot net 17 Castle Street, Dalkey

The Lisbon Treaty is dead. PANA and CAECU intend to give it a "funeral" on Wednesday 15th of October at 6.00pm outside government buildings, Merrion Street, Dublin 2. All those who would like to come along and give it the send off it deserves are welcome to come along.

The Irish political elite have tried to destroy virtually every last vestage of Irish Independence, Irish Democracy and Irish Neutrality over the last few decades and to integrate this state into the US/EU/NATO military structures in order to ensure Ireland's full and active participation in the resource wars of the 21st century. Wars in which the defeat of the US/EU/NATO axis is the only and absolutely inevitable outcome.
Since 1996 PANA has campaigned acively against this process and since 2004 has done so in conjunction with the Campaign Against the EU Constitution. With their neo-liberal, militarist world now crumbling before them we might not just be seeing the death of the Lisbon Treaty, but the whole vicious, nasty militarist world which they so love. We should not forget that their great leader for most of last 10 years, Mr. Bertie Ahern, not only strongly advocated the treaty but also called President Bush a "great President" and backed his wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to the hilt by destroying Irish Neutrality.
So if you are coming along on the 15th, think of this "funeral" as not just a funeral for the Lisbon treaty, but a symbol for the eventual end of the whole lot of these corrupt, neo-liberal, militarists that have brought the world so close to disaster. All those who voted no should be proud of their vote. It was a rare breath of sanity in a world dominated by warmongers. See you there.

by Jolly Red Giant - Socialist Party/CWI Tue Sep 30, 2008 21:47

The current economic meltdown is certainly going to undermine any efforts to restage a vote here - and is likely to have the European capitalist classes scurrying back behind their own national borders to try and protect themselves from the consequences - the last thing they will be worried about is try to plug the Lisbon Treaty into a very shaky ediface.

by Valentine - www.onzezeg.be Wed Oct 01, 2008 00:24

Hello all
I am so glad to have your comments
I am sorry if some things were not correct regarding the real No Means No Campaigners whom should have all the credits...

I was aware of it because we met in Amsterdam and Attac met them in Germany but I was basing my focus on the smearing campâign of Cohl Bendit
I knew him as a leader of the 1968 revolt and am very very disappoited

I would like to have some links of the Irish campaigning websites so we can add them.

In Europe we feel the pressure of the elite is to Isolate the Irish no vote and to do as if nothing happenend ...
They won with Holland and France, what will happen now?

In the back rooms of EU Brussel I hear poeple say the game is over.....

Die Linke in Germany put a complaint in the constitutional court
and for the moment the president of the BRD Parliament cannot sign the traitee

In Belgium they have to vote a law in between our 9 parliaments... wich might give us a chance also to go to court with a complaint as we intend to do...

I hope I will be able to pick up your action and make a funeral ceremony in Brussels too...
Keep in touch if you like by
info@onzezeg.be

by Valentine - www.onzezeg.be Wed Oct 01, 2008 00:28

Hello all
I am so glad to have your comments
I am sorry if some things were not correct regarding the real No Means No Campaigners whom should have all the credits...

I was aware of it because we met in Amsterdam and Attac met them in Germany but I was basing my focus on the smearing campâign of Cohl Bendit
I knew him as a leader of the 1968 revolt and am very very disappoited

I would like to have some links of the Irish campaigning websites so we can add them.

In Europe we feel the pressure of the elite is to Isolate the Irish no vote and to do as if nothing happenend ...
They won with Holland and France, what will happen now?

In the back rooms of EU Brussel I hear poeple say the game is over.....

Die Linke in Germany put a complaint in the constitutional court
and for the moment the president of the BRD Parliament cannot sign the traitee

In Belgium they have to vote a law in between our 9 parliaments... wich might give us a chance also to go to court with a complaint as we intend to do...

I hope I will be able to pick up your action and make a funeral ceremony in Brussels too...
Keep in touch if you like by
info@onzezeg.be

by Santos Wed Oct 01, 2008 09:37

This is a terrible piece.
Ganley and Libertas did not represent the vast majority of 'no' voters. He spread lies and created chaos. His links to US neo-cons are beyond doubt. The extent to which he is trying to peddle their agenda, now across Europe, is disturbing to say the least.
He is putting together a rag-tag crue of racists and europhobes (remember he always claims he is pro-European) to run a pan-European election campaign.
In this context, I think it is absolutely 100% correct that elected European politicians (please give up on the technocrat hyperbole) are concerned.
Dany Cohn-Bendit has his current mandate from Germany, where he was born, so where your poor research turned up that he is leader of the French Greens is head scratching (although he is likely to run in France again next year).
Sinn Féin led an effective campaign and have been realistic and constructive since. I hope that it is they and the rest of the left represent those who voted no for an actual reason. The idea that Coir and Libertas are a majority force in Irish politics should send a shiver down any sane person's spine.

by David - none Wed Oct 01, 2008 19:48

The reality is that the No vote was a mixed bag from far left to far right, a general disconnect between our political establishment and the people, dissatisfaction at a declining economic situation, an unease at the way society is rapidly changing owing to large scale immigration without any coherent debate as to its merits and demerits, and a general feeling that we have surrendered too much sovereignty to Brussels.

The people are rightly questioning the direction of current Irish society.

David

by wondering Thu Oct 02, 2008 06:37

You say: "The people are rightly questioning the direction of current Irish society." I'd say an increasing number of them are mystified by rapid sociological and technical changes, David, but they leave it at that and muddle through from day to day. The Lisbon referendum was actively challenged by small groups and individuals ranging from the far left to the far right (and how many in between?); but it is speculative trying to determine what amount of influence all the leafleting, canvassing and letter writing had on how people voted.

Before formal canvassing and leafleting begins again sometime before next summer it would be useful for people with a reasoned 'take' on Irish and EU society to start drawing up lists of questions they might prompt that fickle and amorphous electorate to start considering. Greek philosophers like Plato and Socrates believed in the intellectual power of questions, especially questions coming from the individual person. Some questions may be answered by new questions before thought-out answers are finally arrived at. Prompting public questioning during the coming months could be a creative role for canvassers, leafleters and letter writers. As Socrates might have put it, the unexamined national and international life is not worth living.

by Valentine - www.onzezeg.be Thu Oct 02, 2008 14:55

De Standaard (belgium) reports that yesterday, at a
conference of the European Policy Center,
Jean-Luc Dehaene, former Belgian Prime Minister,
declared that the Irish government should simply
ratify the Lisbon Treaty without a referendum
before the EU elections, as the legal ground on
which Ireland has to hold a referendum is
disputable. Dehaene is quoted as saying: "whoever
thinks that a vote in parliament is less
democratic then a referendum has a lifelong
problem with democracy". By proposing this,
Dehaene aims to prevent the EU elections turning
into a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty which
could lead to shifting party loyalties.

Zie http://standaard.typepad.com/rondom_schuman/2008/10/fin....html

I am sorry for my country.
He is the problem with a revenue of millions bij INBEV 3 miljon Euro per year I believ e