Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008 (Update)

by Interested but tired Wed Jun 18, 2008 18:45

Tried to have a go reading the bill but my eyes and brain are too tired after work to digest the usual convoluted english
Can someone briefly summarise what this bill means for those of us who like a drink?

by Bazooka Joe Thu Jun 19, 2008 00:36

There is a great need to do something about the excessive drinking which is the source of so much crime, disorder, rape, assault, vandalism and the waste of much public money, especially in our hospitals and police/court services but this Bill is not what is needed. It does not go far enough but it may well be all we can expect from a government so heavily influenced by the drinks industry who make massive profits from selling alcohol to our tens of thousands of alcoholics and others who, 'drink responsibly'.

* Alcohol will now be less visible in supermarkets (not in areas to which children have access).

* Off-sales of alcohol will be restricted to the period between 10.30a.m. and 10.00 p.m.

* 'Early Houses' will have to comply with normal opening hours

*Theatres/venues must adhere to general opening hours without exception

* Wine retailer’s will require a District Court certificate

* Opening hours 'extensions' will now require CCTV installation on the premesis seeking the 'extension' (Mostly Night Clubs)

* Gardai will have more powers to oppose such 'extensions' and licences

* Fines for selling alcohol to children are to be increased slightly

* Gardai have the power to sieze the liquid drug from anyone drinking in a public place where they deem a breach of the peace may occur.

* The promotion of 'special offers' of cheap drink will be banned

* Gardai may enter private property where drinking is occuring and where they suspect it may cause a breach of the peace.

Yes, this last one is the cruncher. Gardai can now use the excuse that they believed underage drinking was taking place or that drinking by adults was taking place that might lead to a breach of the peace, in order to enter any property. If you fail to hand over the alcohol when asked by a Garda, or if you fail to give you name address and age when requested by a Garda you may receive a fine of up to €500 on summary conviction.

Apart from some cosmetic changes this Bill does nothing to alleviate the alcohol scourge. The Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008 is a Bill that strengthens the powers of the Gardai and further erodes civil liberties. You see, alcohol is a very useful means and excuse for social control.

by Bazooka Joe Thu Jun 19, 2008 00:53

Under the amendments proposed in this Bill, Gardai may enter private property in relation to people in possesion of intoxicating substances (including alcohol,and using the excuse of alcohol) but not a place used as a private dwelling.

by Wondering Thu Jun 19, 2008 09:31

Does this bill provide for a compulsory warning of any kind on the bottles, cans, etcetera, which clearly states that alcohol is a mind-altering drug, and that a significant percentage of those who choose to use it become physically and psychologically addicted in ways that can be extremely dangerous for themselves and others?

If not, why not?

After all, alcohol causes far more deaths, and far more suffering, than all the prescribed drugs put together which have similar "mind-altering" capabilities -- such as, for example, librium, valium, several kinds of sleeping tablets, and so on.

They all very rightly carry clear warnings - so why not alcohol?

Related link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Librium%2C+Valium%...earch

by Phier Thu Jun 19, 2008 14:29

I'm told this summary is the info that was sent to the gardai:

Sale of alcohol

*Wine off-licences, which may be obtained at present directly from the Revenue Commissioners, will in future require a District Court certificate.

*The grounds on which objection may be made to the grant of a District Court certificate for any off-licence will be extended to include consideration of the needs of the neighbourhood and the adequacy of the existing number of off-licences in the area.

*Off-sales of alcohol will be permitted only between 10.30 a.m. and 10.00 p.m. (12.30 p.m. to 10.00 p.m. on Sundays).

*Provisions permitting early morning opening of public houses in the vicinity of fairs and markets will be repealed.

*In future, alcohol products must be displayed and sold in supermarkets, convenience stores, etc. in a specified area which is structurally separated from the rest of the premises or, where such separation is not possible, alcohol products must be displayed and sold from behind a counter (this will not affect specialist off-licences or duty free shops).

*Test purchasing of alcohol products will be permitted and it will apply both to on-licences and off-licences; appropriate safeguards for the protection of the young people concerned will be required.

Extended opening hours

*The public order ground on which the Gardai may object to the grant of a special exemption order by the District Court, or its duration, is being strengthened.

*In future, the District Court may not grant any such order unless the premises concerned comply fully with fire safety standards.

*A new statutory requirement to have a CCTV system in place in premises availing of special exemption orders for events to which the public are admitted are taking place, i.e. nightclubs and late bars, is being
introduced.

*In future, premises with theatre licences may only remain open after normal closing times if a special exemption order has been obtained from the District Court.

Public order

*New powers will permit a member of the Garda Síochána to seize any bottle or container which is in the possession of a person who appears to be under the age of 18 and which the member suspects, with reasonable cause, contains alcohol which has been consumed, is being consumed, or intended to be consumed, by a person under 18 years in a place other than a place used as a private dwelling.

*New powers will permit the seizure of bottles and containers containing alcohol where there is a reasonable apprehension of public disorder and which may be used to require a person to leave the place
concerned in a peaceable and orderly manner. Alcohol promotions and discount sales

The Bill provides for the making of detailed regulations in future to prohibit or restrict advertising or promoting the sale or supply of alcohol at a reduced price or free of charge on the purchase of any quantity of intoxicating liquor or of any other product or service. Regulations may also be made which will prohibit events or activities which are intended or likely to encourage excessive consumption of alcohol.

Penalties and sanctions

Certain fines in the Licensing Acts 1833 to 2004 and fines under the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 are being increased (Schedules 1 and 2). In addition, a minimum closure period of two days will apply in the case of convictions for certain offences under the Licensing Acts.

by D9 Reader Mon Jun 23, 2008 23:57

Gardai already flout laws on entering Private Dwellings.

I've heard first hand reports of Gardai in Dublin calling to houses where Parties were held and instead of asking people politely to turn music down have burst into the house and /or put foot in door threatening to arrest occupiers if they didn't gain entrance to have a look what was going on. These incidents were not in so-called rough parts of the city either.

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Tue Jun 24, 2008 17:49

It lloks like we are going to rely on legislation and enforcement yet again to keep manners on our alcohol focused people.

Somehow, we appear to have the predisposition in Ireland to BLAME.....BLAME THE DRINKS COMPANIES, BLAME THE PUBLICANS, BLAME EMOTIONAL DISORDERS, BLAME BOREDOM.

I recall an old Judge utter words of wisdom circa the 1930's to a young wife. Be careful and avoid providing temptation for the maid. When I lived in Zimbabwe in the 1990's, I kept this in mind, because temptation for staff to steal was huge....and the cost was their job and no reference.

The previous writer mentioned about Gardai doing housecalls to party locations and things getting out of hand. We must not condone violence by a Garda force but we must consider their frustration and temptation being called out to these parties.

Education as young as possible ought to be a priority. Children are like sponges and if they are enlightened about sensible drinking, how to choose wines with food to slow alcohol effect, to see raw hardship caused by alcholic parents in the contexts of their families and the possibility of care for children; what being without money is like, when either parent is sozzled into an unknown space, and children and animals hunger. Generation after generation, drink has cast its cloak over individuals and caused major harm to the person but also others. There are the people who drive their cars under the influence of drink and drugs; there are people who have taken alcohol and caused train accidents; the saddest event I recall, that involved lives, perhaps in our terms not valuable lives, was in Zimbabwe. It was a Sunday and the site was up and running like every other day. The crane driver was from the UK......the crane collapsed, offices were completely decimated but worse the impace hit through the hoarding onto a four lane street and yes people died.....it is said that the drink culture of ex-pat Zimbabwe contributed to this awful accident.

How do we effect a sense of Code of Conduct? We have become the 'massive passive' viz a viz our TV stations and programmes - those sit coms that hit every emotional tragedy but without an cognitive effect. I don't relish to segmentation via media choice and cost that we are taking on board. 'Massive passive' is an indictment surely that we ought to be using education to target and surpass.

Well done to the Drink companies and their sites drinkaware; meas.ie;p but we need more conscience work. We need to feel empathetic to the degree that we choose not to drive the car while drunk or make sensible plans; we need to think about the cost to children of parents being drunkards and irresponsible; we need the retail trade to improve their moral conscious. I live in Dublin 4 and what I find remarkable is that shops have re-arranged their supply of alcohol to all prominents places, and use every inch of available space to stock it. It appears to me if you took account of their stocks....you would find a substantial decrease in the allocation to food stocks. Why must the drink be to the front of Tesco stores as well as the usual locations and why are we selling 10 cans for the price of 6 of very cheap beer.

Given the love of the Environment........what about an incentive for young people to return all the bottles to the shops with a refund the day after.....this would mean the shops would have extra work if they target blitz sales.

We all need to examine why we drink. There must be reason I believe. I believe it because as a person with anxiety I have to take barbituates under prescription.

I wrote an article on Indymedia several months ago about this topic. The name is

'People and Shortcomings........It could be anxiety or too much drink.......it could be social anxiety'

Finally.....our Accident and Emergency Departments, Neurology, Psyhiatry and other areas over the long term are the main beneficiaries of people who cannot control their intake of drink. How can we legislate to make people cogniscent of such wastage of medical services.....? It isn't working. Surely, therefore others arrangements can be made, like charges for wasted time to the drinker....i.e. hospital and Justice. Just think of MSRA and then think of a busy night in A&E.....we leave ourselves open and others particularly more vulnerable than say the drinkers to bacteria.......(Also, people vomiting on the streets - this ought to be cleaned up by the Pubs and then it might encourage them to serve too much drinks.

Last but not least. Pubs need to get more comfort into them. The old dog as you find in English pubs might be a good start.....also it would suggest illegal drugs are not being sold or dealt in the pubs......

Michelle Clarke
Jonathan Swift 'Give Vision to the Visionless'

by Jack Russell - Social Justice and Ethics Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:38

Michelle, as always your article on the Liquor intoxication Act was academic and well informed. By the way, welcome back to Indymedia. Your absence was missed by every Jack Russell from West Belfast to Clonakilty.

JR - I was walking home from Leeson Street the other night and the Spar shop there I have not been in for over two years. Before it was shop that catered for homes and flats with an array of foods, fruit and groceries sold there. I could not believe my eyes Michelle........it was no longer the old fashioned grocery shop but more an off licence promoting all types of alcohol, including the cheapest deals. I asked the manager what has changed around here and he told me - they sell Euros5 to 6,500 alcohol every weekend. The reason being the market is there because the Eastern European lads working on the building sites and living in the area. All this will change Jack Russell because the Big R has arrived in Ireland and D4 will be bought for a six pack in two years time.

Yesterday Mary Coughlan, Tanaiste, was playing the Bodhran - I wish she would keep playing it and leave us all alone. Biffo scratched the pay-rise so this means making accommodations hence the reduction in alcohol sales. According to Michael Ring, Fine Gael, in the Dail, he said in his Westport accent - it is easier getting a line of coke in a pub in Castlebar; this will all change now because the big R is back.

The most obvious pointer to bad times ahead is when you hear a rumour that Christy Moore is writing another song. This one is supposed to be called 'Not the Flight of the Earls' but the 'Flight of the Ministers, TD's, Planners, Developers, Tribunals - I believe they are using McElvaddy's yacht off the coast of Lough Swilly......

Jack Russell

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Thu Jun 26, 2008 17:56

Jack Russell - you have caught my attention. You are right this Old Celtic pussy cat might be just about to experience the 2nd flight since the flight of the Earls in the 1600's.......

This would not suit the suppliers of Alcohol like Diageo.....just as it will not suit the publicans, the entertainment industry, the new elite drinkers of vino and all the others who can source the bargains and buy in bulk. The pople who could be most caught out are the Revenue. We forget too easy just what drink tax revenues are about. First they tend to be a constant in a recession because taxes always can be raised and there are the people who will never forgo the habit or addiction.

Ireland has a culture for drink but also the History is strong. The Guinness story is always worth reading. They gave employment, they provided social housing and the first Creche, They introduced philantropy, much in the same way as Aldi will engage in, if they get planning for apartments. The wheel of history goes round and round.

Now Mr. Russell, what can be done to stop the new affluent move to places like Holland or Switzerland and forsake the hand that fed them - a question of person honour arises here and loyalty to one's country. There will always be the constants and often these provide hospital wings, funds for charities, university buildings etc. This is the positive and has to be nurtured while at the same time ensuring funding and provision is maintained for the vulnerable members of society and with particular emphasis on our children and giving them opportunities.

We need Innovation. We need to foster that change is okay, and we need a healthy attitude towards food, alcohol, and when serious addictions arise, assist people to deal with them, to seek help and eventually conquer the problem.

Along the canal be it morning or night, you meet those who sit on benches, who sleep out, who go to hostels. Any money they appear to receive they buy alcohol....more alcohol. If they beg.....they buy alcohol. Let us not forget that these people don't leave Ireland, their patch or halt their begging or drinking. If this is the case and given that you never know what anyone receives when they beg......the money is spent on drink, possibly cheap, but then no necessarily so, it can be a nagon of spirits.....so this means that these people in fact contribute a large sum of their weekly allocation of money to revenue......we do not pay sufficient heed to this.......

Quotation
George Santanya
'There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval'

by Phier Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:38

This recent post from chewy@bodytonic will explain this issue, and
give you his email to contact him for further details of the GUTN
campaign and any public demonstrations on the matter.

Looks like theatre licences are gone as of August or September 1st.
This means no more post 2.30 boozing, maybe half an hours drink up time though.

but as Jimmy B says:

Now for the positive thing he told me. There is another Bill due to be
publsihed before the end of the year, a piece of codifying legislation
on the 'Sale and Consumption of Alcohol' which will offer greater
scope to provide for staggered closing hours. So the war may not be
over just yet!! This piece of legislation will obviously reform an
original Act. I have someone from the Department of the Justice going
to call me back in a while so I will bring ye up to speed when I speak
with them.

and then he said

Real theatres can get a licence to sell alcohol without a pub licence.
They can sell alcohol for a half an hour before the performance and a
half an hour after the performance. Nightclub owners were applying for
Theatre licences so they would not have to go for these monthly
special exemption orders which have to be applied for in the district
court. Also under the Theatre Licence nighclub owners are allowed sell
alcohol until 3.30 and have patrons on the premises until 4am.

Now what they have done is they have removed the loop hole for clubs
and venues to apply for Theatre licences, therefore meaning that these
venues will again have to head down to the district court on a monthly
basis to apply for special exemption orders to allow them open until
2.30 on Friday and Saturday and 1 am on Sunday, which is the way the
law is now. There is a half an hour drinking up time on top so all
clubs are allowed have patrons on the premises until 3, and presumably
play music until 3.

He said that this Bill is likely to come into effect from 1 August or
1 September. They are not sure yet.

Then on the Bill that will be published in the Autumn on the 'Sale and
Consumption of Alcohol' he said that they are going to introduce a
night club permit in this piece of legislation which will be applied
for on a yearly basis. This will obviously be the next opportunity
that we might have to have some sense brought back into the opening
hours of late night venues.

Finally, we are planning a public debate for next Monday evening at
7.30 on the issue of Night Club Opening Hours in Number 4 Dame Lane.
We have confirmed speakers from Give Us the Night, Irish Nightclub
Industry Association, and Robbie Fox, owner of Renards. We are hoping
that we can get some politicains to attend but none have confirmed
yet.

And Finally finally, GUTN are meeting with the INIA today to discuss a
protest outside the Dail next week. So spread the word.

(if anyone from here wants to join in the campagn, mail me
thatchewyguy(at)gmail.com

by Phier Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:44

Follow the related link to see what was said in the Dáil the other day on the matter, expand the Dermot Ahern quote and further responses.

More correspondence...

Thanks for your response, although the speech doesn't actually mention
the area I am concerned with, namely nightclub./ theatre licenses.
I am sure you are extremely busy so was hoping you could provide me
with an email address of someone in your party I could liaise with
regularly to voice my concerns with and who can keep me informed of
the parties stance on these issues.

I am hoping someone will raise the issue of staggered closing AND
Sunday opening again at the next stage of the bill. I appreciate the
theatre licence loop hole needs to be tied up but at present this loop
hole is the only way workers can stay out past 1am on their night off.
The bills failure to provide proper legislation for night clubs
(which still are not recognised as a legal entity and operate under
criteria from the Public Dance Hall Act of 1935) is a huge oversight
in my opinion. A new specific nightclub licence is required, hopefully
one which will allow staggered closing.

I see many politicians are coming round to the idea too after reading
your response and seeing Deputy Flanagan raising the issue of
staggered closing in the last debate. We are hoping you can make your
feelings known to the Justice Minister and committee members at the
next stage in the bill.

From what I can gather this is very late in the game to be trying to
amend a bill, I am aware however that another bill is due later in the
year on the 'Sale and Consumption of Alcohol' so if we fail at this
point, I, campaigning with a group called Give Us the Night shall be
stepping up our lobbying and public awareness and we are hoping your
party will support some if not all of our goals publicly.

This is the sort of issue that motivates young people nowadays, that
may not be right, but I guess its the world we live in. Having a big
party such as yourselves backing progressive ideas such as staggered
closing goes along way. Even Charlie Flanagan mentioning staggered
closing, in all honestly probably earned him many kudos from the young
electorate.

Just to reiterate our aims briefly:
The introduction of a specific nightclub licence
Staggered closing
The recognition of Sunday the same as every other night of the week.

Thanks agian.
Eoin Gill

SPEECH BY PAT RABBITTE TD
In Debate on Second Stage of Intoxicating Liquor Bill
Labour Party Spokesperson on the Justice
Tuesday, 24 June 2008

RABBITTE SCEPTICAL ABOUT VALUE OF INTOXICATING LIQUOR BILL

I confess to being a sceptic on this Bill. It is designed as an
interim high profile response to the public disorder resulting from
binge drinking on our streets and public places. It is true that
public disorder and anti-social behaviour are worse now than ever
before. It is probably true that alcohol abuse is a major contributing
factor to this phenomenon. Is more legislation the answer and is this
legislation, in particular, warranted? A more considered Sale of
Alcohol Bill is promised and perhaps it may have been wiser to await
its production.

Easy access to the purchase of alcohol, the proliferation of off
licences and below cost selling probably do all contribute to
drunkenness amongst teenagers and young people. And yet the reality
may be that if people, young or old, want alcohol they will get it. Is
there any evidence that the prohibitive cost of alcohol in certain
fashionable establishments has led to diminished consumption? We don't
appear to be able to enforce the laws we already have, will we be able
to enforce new and additional laws? There are new powers in this Bill
"to move on" drunken youths from a public place – is this markedly
different from the existing powers to deal with disorderly loitering?

It makes good sense to tackle the proliferation of establishments that
can sell drink for off premises consumption. Although I am at a total
loss to understand how closing "early morning" houses will contain
drunkenness and disorder amongst young people who generally do not
frequent these establishments. However the pattern of recent years
seems to have been that every Tom, Dick and Harry has been authorised
to sell alcohol from every forecourt and every premises with a roof.
There is a suspicion that some very unsavoury characters took
advantage of the simple procedure to get a licence over the last
decade. The renewal of authorisation seems to have been pretty much
automatic unless very grave breaches of the law were established. Yet
we know that some of these establishments have been selling to
under-aged persons and Residents Associations and others know that
public disorder in adjacent public spaces can be related directly to
such and such an off-licence. I don't know what will be the practical
impact of requiring the District Courts to give such permissions in
the future but at least it permits some evidence to be heard as to the
track record, conduct and character of the licensee.

The personal and social consequences of excessive alcohol consumption
are horrific and if anyone doubts the accuracy of that description
they should read the recently published report, "Alcohol Related Harm
in Ireland". My scepticism derives not from any denial of the harm
done by abuse of alcohol but rather from an absence of conviction that
this malaise in our society can be addressed by the enactment of more
legislation. Of course there should be more rigorous regulation of the
sale of alcohol and more rigorous enforcement of these regulations. I
can see no logical reason for example why persons under 21 should not
be able to purchase alcohol in off licences. There ought to be
traceability capable of being enforced so that the small number of
regular offenders who supply alcohol to under-aged persons can be shut
down. If it is true that there was lack of clarity about Garda powers
to confiscate drink from youths in certain circumstances then it is
right, within limits, that the Gardai should have such powers.

Having said all of that, the sickness in our society where very young
people drink to get drunk is more difficult to address. Why do persons
at such a young age feel the need to join the binge drinking
merry-go-around? Is the drink culture so all pervasive in our society
that young people regard it as a necessary rite of passage? What blame
attaches to adults if this is the case? We have a very innovative and
creative section of the advertising industry devoted to coming up with
ever more imaginative ways to attract young people to a more glamorous
lifestyle necessarily involving one brand of alcohol or another. And
what about parental responsibility? Are parents too preoccupied in the
pub or too busy boasting about property prices in the golf club that
they have no knowledge of the binge drinking habits of their
offspring? As the excellent new ads say "when they are drinking they
don't notice that I am drinking". Are older siblings purchasing
alcohol for their younger family members doing it without the
knowledge of their parents? If the law disapproves but parents
approve, who wins out? Cheating the law, presenting phoney ID,
representing oneself as ones older sibling are all deemed great fun.
The cumulative effect of all this is to confer approval on conduct
that is considered normal behaviour in our society when the opposite
should be the case. The notion that this can be policed is I think
very doubtful if parents and sellers of alcohol conspire to make it
appear normal.

Whereas I hold no brief for publicans or off-licences, we should not
underestimate the impact of some of the impositions in the Bill. If
you manage a convenience store, there is nothing convenient about
being required to queue for a second time to purchase your bottle of
wine. Nor is it insignificant for the small trader to be required to
reconfigure his mixed trading premises so that alcohol sales are not
just separated from other sales but that a barrier is erected thus
requiring dedicated staff. What relationship exists between "early
houses" and rampaging youths entirely escapes me. I have a very high
regard for the accessible and practical insights in the report
expertly prepared by Dr Gordon Holmes and his committee but I can
discover no argument that justifies this latter recommendation.

ENDS CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY

"Eoin Gill"
Sent by: thatchewyguy@gmail.com

24/06/2008 18:20 To eamon.gilmore@oir.ie
cc

Subject urgent: The Intoxicating Liquor act

Dear Mr Gilmore,
I am writing to you as a labour voter, constituent and neighbour, to
voice my disappointment with the proposed act mentioned above and to
ask of Labours stance on it.
While I fully agree that the licensing laws in this country need
amending I firmly believe this is the wrong way of going about it.

Blanket close of 2.30am Monday- Saturday
In my opinion it is far from the solution required and will in fact
only serve to increase public order offenses by piling everyone out
onto the street at the same time.
This will lead to an increase in pressure on all public services, not
least the Gardaí and ambulances who will have an inevitable 2.45am
rush as thousands of people flood the streets in search of too few
taxis.

This bill has generated massive concern amongst voters, here is a
quote from a girl on the Electric Picnic forum which hightlights just
one issue.

What Chewy says about them rushing it through in a day is a concern.
On the whole I'll feel a lot less safe being turfed out on the streets
at the same time as everyone else, mainly cos the 39N is not a pretty
sight even when it's quiet but packed it can get a bit scary. Having
to queue for the f-ing thing cos there is not enough room for us all
would be hell on earth.

Stuff like this just makes me wonder is it worth my while moving back
after my year in Manchester.

Blanket closing of all venues at 1am on a Sunday.
Most importantly for me and I believe for Labour is the threat of a
1am close on Sundays. You may not be aware that Sunday night out is
the most popular night out for those who spend their Friday and
Saturday night serving the public in bars and restaurants. Not to
mention shift workers such as nurses. Why should these people be
denied their night out?
Also personally and for a number of other people I know, Closing down
night clubs early on a Sunday will cause a great loss of income. I
promote a club night on this night, that mainly serves the service
industry and at the moment it is my main source of income.

To me the bill does not add up to common sense and I would also see
this as the perfect time to argue the case for staggered closing times
and the implication of a specific nightclub license.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Eoin Gill

by Phier Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:45

Some fairly basic examples of emails you could use as a template to
send to your local TDs and the committee members:

To whom it may concern,
I am contacting you with regard to the aforementioned bill. I'm very
concerned by its contents and feel that it is retrogressive both in
terms of public safety and civil liberty.
With regard to public safety, the withdrawal of late/theatre licenses
is extremely short-sighted, and not in the best interests of the
public nor those who seek to ensure their safety - the gardai,
ambulance services etc. Failure to stagger closing times will lead to
large numbers of people exiting licensed premises simultaneously with
predictable negative results.
With regard to civil liberty, I feel that the government's attempt to
intervene in this aspect of its electorate's social lives is excessive
- particularly with regard to 1am closing on Sunday night/ Monday
morning. Sunday is a well known 'industry' night for those who work in
the nation's clubs and pubs serving Irish citizens Monday-Saturday. As
someone who previously worked in the service industry, I am perturbed
by the attempt to curtail licensing hours in this way.
Yours,

To whom it may concern
From my understanding, this bill is due its second commitee stage any day now.
I urge all of you to rethink certain aspects of this bill. In
particular the forced closure of licensed premises at 1am on Sundays.
Why should Sundays be treated differently to any other day? In modern
Ireland there are many who do not work Monday to Friday 9-5.
Sunday night out has traditionally been a big night out for those in
the catering and service industry who spend their weekend serving you
in the pubs and restaurants you frequent.
Why should these workers be denied the same freedoms as everyone else? As you?

I along with many others call for a specific nightclub licence,
extended opening hours, sequential closing and the treatment of Sunday
as any other.
Yours faithfully

by Phier Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:48

Note: Charlie Flanagan and the rest of the FGers on that list have come out in support and FG will be championing the issue of later Sunday closing and staggered closing at commitee stage (7th July), so maybe offer him thanks and tell him you appreciate his progressive attitude and you will be an FGer for life if he gets it sorted!
Pat Rabbite and Brian O shea of Labour, can definitly do with a push, I know from Gilmore that they think blanket close of 2.30 is stupid so encourage them to stand up and tell the commitee this and to stand up for the workers his party represents by allowing those in the service industry/ shift workers to have a Sunday night out. Tell him you will be Labour till you die if he does!

I dont think anyone has got a response form anyone in FF yet, I will be doing a specific mail for them, basically telling them that this issue is very important to the young electorate and that his counterparts in FG have come out in support of our actions which are based on common sense and that FFs failure to respond will only alienate them amongst young voters like myself and the 22thousand others who signed the Give Us The Night petition.

This is promising, as I said, I think the second commitee stage is on 7th July so if we get crackin now we just might see some good results.

Other addresses to check out:
gareth.crowe@oireachtas.ie : a councillor representing the more progressive FFer Barry Andrews, I have met him and he definitly sees the light, encourage him to raise the issue with his party, to make sure they are all aware of the outcomes.

eamon.gilmore@oir.ie head of labour, could do with clarifying their position, i pushed the worker angle with him and told him it would mean loss of income for me if Sundays closed down early.

http://thomasbyrne.blogspot.com/
he of committee fame, his blog hasnt mentioned this issue though, I will be asking him why in an email.

by Jack Russell - Social Justice and Ethics Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:13

I went for a walk last night Michelle through Baggot Street and to my honour I met a former great GAA footballer who is now a journalist and TV punter, Pat Spillane. I praised Pat for his article, some time ago, about 'Raw Anger and the loss of young lives due to homicides and car crashes and suicide'. Pat told me, in his more than 20 years teaching career, he lost 4 students to suicide. Out of the blue, I was amazed that Pat told me he browses through the Indymedia site and he enjoyed and enjoys your articles on mental health, suicide awareness and your recent one on the laws of Intoxicating liquor. Just to let you - keep up the good work.

Jack Russell

by Tea Total Sun Jun 29, 2008 13:59

"Alcohol consumption in the Irish population has increased by 17% over the past 11 years, from 11.5 litres per adult in 1995 to 13.4 litres in 2006. This rise in consumption has led to increases in alcohol-related harm and disease, and has resulted in more than 1,775 deaths. This, in turn, has created escalating pressures on our health and hospital services. " (From http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/art...shtml )

Related link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Alcohol+related+de...earch

by Phier Sun Jun 29, 2008 14:19

In case you haven't seen the event page...

by Michelle Clarke - Social Justice and Ethics Sun Jun 29, 2008 16:56

I agree about the Intoxicating Liquor Bill proposed. It appears rash and ill thought out.

Why change? Above all what is the problem regarding the Theatre......surely this sets the example of making an occasion of supporting our Stage Performances. It is not as if you can keep standing up and going for drinks......there still remains a system of regulation backed up my good manners.

Yes, sequential closing times are sensible....for all concerned.

But juggling and shortening of hours is hardly going to ensure that people drink less or a less reckless in their decisions to drive. This is about Attitudes....and attitudes that are not so easily swayed.

Phier, you mention the Public Dance Hall Act and it takes me back to stories told about my Grandfather, written up a book. He was then a Vice Chairman of the Senate and a Kings Counsel. I have read some of the senate papers at that time and one thing strikes me.......hard work, commitment and experience yielded from times of political instability and a time when Ireland and Dublin in particular was the major Red Light area in Europe - areas like the Monto reveal harrowing descriptions of prostitution driven by occupyinbg armed forces and the Black and Tans. So what I am trying to say is that people drafting this legislation had raw courage and pretty damning life experience. The 1932 Eucharistic conference was the visibility factor about a new pure Ireland.

Why have we got this Bill going through the Dail?

Who wants to achieve and what?

Reduced hours to Nightclubs is about what? Is it to reduce motor accidents, suicide attempts, regulation by state authorities? I recall been a teenager once, able to drive, able to take responsibility or not, or even drive recklessly by car with questionable suicide thoughts. I remember others like me at that time. My attitude because my parents were doctors and who were frequently called out to awful accidents was to choose not to drink but others with my views would just drink. Here we at psychology and take responsibility.

The match is on today. Did anyone see the advert prior to it and no doubt during it.? Yes, a member of the silent epidemic of ever increasing brain injured people. The brave man admitted to drinking and driving and asked people to understand the price he had to pay. This man, like me, has ABI, known as the Silent Epidemic or as the person who without choice will act drunk for the remainder of their days. This is not fun but this is worth understanding.

It is not the hours......it is the content and it is the attitudes formed. I believe in days of lore, that the old City pubs were theatres. If this is so, those people of yore excerised their own wisdom. They knew perhaps that people had little money and the pub for a few drinks with theirs friends......and an in situ play created business.

There was a tiime, pre accident, when I worked in Corporate Finance in London. All were alert fror the secretive dawn raids that would yield the bank huge money or losses. Every Friday, all members of staff, joined for a little gathering and two magnums of Dom Perignon were opened and served.......this becomes an event to aid participation and consolidarity.

Post accident, I was in speech therapy, with aphasia and then it was about reading. Concentration was appalling still is and impacts on comprehension every day of the week. I could not watch TV (now the only factor is that I cannot remember it). Then one day, I thought about writing down each programme I watched, typing it into the computer, including it in the diary I have to keep. This proved sound. It made me realise that I could use my pre-accident memories and link to current to issues when I want write..;....it becomes okay to leave the vacuum.

Back to Alcohol......excessive amounts
Yes......we drink more but does anyone ask what really kickstarted the market. In my days of the 1970s, as closing time came, drink after drink would line the counter......

Well we have Corporate Giants and we have Globalisation, the order of the day in the 1980's. The whispers swept the market and the hungry bankers were there to tap same. I made a note from watching a TV programme a number of years ago and I listened to the plans made to get the age group out there. A worldwide corporate, no longer relied on its own marketeers, employed top notch lawyers with their experience in licensing, to source the best markets in the UK. What a move? Towns like Northampton had a face lift. The cinema had gone out of fashion but as people know, these tended to be wide open spaces, central and ideal for the youth market backed up with the new alcohol 'breezers' or whatever they are called.

What about reintroducing cinemas and selling alcohol.........we need distraction techniques, not taking away service jobs or young peoples' right to participate and enjoy themselves.

A well known lawyer once advised, if ever in court, say little.........I add to this is there too much spurious legislation used to update what is suffice.

Michelle Clarke
Quotation St. Francis of Assisi
'Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible'

I must mention the young mother, aged 31, with a little boy, who is waiting over 5 months for rehabilitation at the NRH. She two strokes nd I now believe it is complicated by MRSA. This is what is important. Ireland ranks near the bottom in Europe for treatment and rehabilitation for brain injury. Why are people not looking to this?

by Phier Thu Jul 03, 2008 17:00

In case you want to mail politicians directly and not have to read all the debates, here's the relevent information from the 25th and 26th along with who said it, their party, and their email address:

http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~phier/talks.doc

(included a bit of their discussion on advertising, i.e. what they really should be controling, not opening hours - might help to use their words to encourage them towards your way of thinking)

If you want ideas for more detail in your email, this might help:

http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~phier/licensing.doc

Also, debates on the 1st and 2nd have been added to the timeline:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp.../document1.htm

Similar summaries to follow.

by NonDrinkerLearnerDriver Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:22

Curious How dempsey put off reducing the blood alcohol level for two years (a factor which relates strongly with road accidents) while putting off the road 100,000 learner drivers (a factor which does not relate strongly with road accidents)

It seems to me that learner drivers are a handy scapegoat and a nice little earner, whilst tackling the real issues by taking on the drinks companies and spending money on improving roads (other than through certain lands in tara of course!), advertisers etc is not really in the interests of people like dempsey. Everything this guy touches turns to shit.

get drink off the roads NOW. Ban advertising of drink. Much stronger underage drinking fines for the supplier. Education programmes from early age. Meet the parents drink awareness programmes in schools. There's lots to be done. Drink costs our tottering health service a huge amount each year. Drinks companies should have to pay a health subsidy for their "externalities" on the community. I HATE what alcohol has done to our country.