Council ban on animal circuses another milestone in campaign to end cruelty to circus animals

by Justin Morahan Sun Apr 06, 2008 22:46

You deserve great credit for championing a worthy cause on behalf of dumb animals.

Because of the fact that so many of us unthinkingly enjoyed the animal acts of the circus in our childhood, the cause has not been so popular. You deserve all the more credit for that.

by jo & tom Sat Apr 12, 2008 22:20

Coming from a circus person and an animal trainer, it's in our best interest to have animals healthy and happy. If animals should not be on Circus's then the next step will be Zoo's, Horse jumping, racing; where the poor beast is pushed to the limit by whip, and in some cases broken limbs and have been put down while people put bets on in the bookies, plus there are many more sports and hobbies that involve and use animals for people's enjoyment .The dog shows, where dogs are made jump through hoops and go through obstacles; where sheepdogs are made work all day, can anyone tell me whether all these creatures are content with their lives?? Also, I'd like to know how many of you who made a comment about "animals on circus's been" wrong eat animals?? Speaking personally, I have bought animals not because i wanted them, but because they were poorly kept and obviously in need of a caring owner. As a final thought I believe that there are a lot of organisations (including private) that should be investigated instead of focusing only on the public
shows like the circus

by modern Ireland Sat Apr 12, 2008 23:45

Tigers are graceful wild animals, degrading them for human entertainment by cracking a whip is not right, Britain banned animal circuses 20 years ago.

by Catlady Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:52

"focusing only on the public shows like the circus"

Animal Rights activists focus on on a huge variety of issues, not just the circus. Put "Animal rights" into the indymedia search and you will have a better idea of what we do.

To answer your question as regards meat eating, anyone claiming to be an animal rights activist is vegetarian at the very least, if not vegan like most of us.

"the next step will be Zoo's, Horse jumping, racing; where the poor beast is pushed to the limit by whip, and in some cases broken limbs and have been put down while people put bets on in the bookies, plus there are many more sports and hobbies that involve and use animals for people's enjoyment .The dog shows, where dogs are made jump through hoops and go through obstacles; where sheepdogs are made work all day, can anyone tell me whether all these creatures are content with their lives?? "

I very much doubt they are (although some dogs certainly enjoy agility excercises and it can be a great way for dog and owner to bond and get excercise). Which is why the people behind campaigns such as this one also campaign against horse racing, vivisection, zoos and so on and so on.

To imply that it is morally acceptable to exploit animals in circuses simply becaus other forms of exploitation are also widespread is the equivalent to arguing that it is morally acceptable to exploit children in sweat shops, simply because other forms of exploitation also exist. This is clearly ridiculous. All exploitation mist be stamped out, including animal circuses.

by Homer Sun Apr 13, 2008 14:01

Its interesting that Circus Watch Ireland - CWI are running a campaign to get wild animals banned from the circus and in Fingal the motion for a ban was proposed by Clare Daly - Socialist Party - Committee for a Workers' International - CWI and in Cork by Mick Barry Socialist Party - CWI.....

by jo & tom Sun Apr 13, 2008 14:04

Putting "children in sweat shops" into the arguement?! THAT is clearly ridiculous!! An animal will show if it is mistreated or exploited very clearly, it hasn't the ability to lie, you can tell by the condition of the animal. Any animal I have trained has been in top condition and has enjoyed working going through their paces for treats, also as you stated in your comment about the dogs; they get their excercise and enjoyment out of the mutual respect we have for each other!To finish I'd like to state the cruelest of all which YOU will never stop, is the slaughter of poultry, cattle and the like almost waiting on death row, not to mention the appaling conditions they suffer before they are butchered, don't you think people should focus more on this abomination?

by Catlady Mon Apr 14, 2008 13:35

Jo & Tom,

You state that my choice of analogy is ridiculous but fail to explain why. I await this explanation with baited breath, although I suspect it will follow the usual speciesist logic of the oppressor.

Perhaps if I choose another it will be more to your liking... To state that expoliting animals for profit through entertainment is morally acceotable because, as you say, slaughterhouses exist, is the equivalent of stating that, for example, it is morally acceptable to eat meat because, say, vivisection exists.

The point of my argument is unaltered by the choice of analogy. The exploitation of more vulnerable individuals for the sole benefit of the opporessor is ethically indefensible. This applies to human rights issues and non-human rights issues alike.

My reference to certain dogs enjoying agility excercises with their human companions was (clearly I feel) meant in the context of a fun activity with no intention to exploit the dog, similar to throwing a stick for other dogs who enjoy that particular wat of playing. This is a far cry from the world of the circus where wild animals such as tigers, elephants and so on are forced to perform ridiculous and often dangerous stunts, spend the majority of their time travelling in small wagons, and never get to behave in the way that nature intended them to.

As for an animals physical condition being an indication of contentment, this is a popular misconception often perpetuated by thise who profit from their exploitation. I live next door to a beautiful young dog, in his prime, shining with health. He is obviously well fed. However, he spends 23 out of every 24 hours on the end of a short chain and is beaten by his owner. I have witnessed him being thumped on the head with a stick. (Before you start shouting about why i do nothing about this, I can tell you that I have done my best in reporting the incidents and am closely monitoring the situation, as the laws in this country are totally inadequate as regards protecting non-humans). Although physically in excellent condition, I fail to see how this animal could possible be described as "happy", given his unfortunate circumstances.

Circus animals may look fine in the ring (and I can assure you that many do not look fine at all) but this is no indication that they lead fulfilling lives. Behind the scenes their stereotypical behaviour patterns, such as rocking from side to side, indicate their levels of boredom, frustration and stress. Elephants in the wild live up to 60 years old - in captivity the average lifespan is closer to 20. They are a perfect illustration of all that is wrong with the circus industry, as it is impossible, even with the best of intentions, to provide them with adequate excercise, and foot problems inevitably develop. Check out the evidence for yourself on captiveanimals.org or www.irishcircuses.org

To answer your final question, I think that people should focus on all exploitation issues, including both the circus animals' plight, and the issues surrounding the exploitation of animals for food. As I have said, I am vegan. Presumably, from your clear outrage at the food industry's exploitation of animals, you are too? do you take action on any of the issues?

I do have difficulty with your classifying food production as the "cruellest of all" however. How can one decide which is cruellest? The keeping of hens in cages so small they cannot move? The deliberate burning, maiming and poisoning of dogs in labs? The practice of ripping the skins off live cats for their fur? The confinement of wild animals for their entire lives on fur farms or in circuses? The savage beating of baby chimps in a circus a la Mary Chipperfield? (I'd like to hear your explanation of how a circus who abused their animals so badly was so successful - hardly by parading sick or terrified looking animals in the ring - further evidence that your argument of animals looking well meaning they are well treated and enjoy a fulfilling existance is erroneous).

The list is far too long, and the suffering far to serious an issue to be reduced to inane statements of the type "this is worse than that".. All of this suffering is unnecessary, regardless of species, class, colour, age, gender or sexual orientation. It should all be stamped out, with no exception.

"I'd like to state the cruelest of all which YOU will never stop, is the ...."

I do not pretend to be the saviour of the world, but I do what I can to relieve suffering and to promote awareness of the sufferings rights of all animlas, both human and non-human. Simply by being vegan I have reduced the number of individuals who undergo the horrific treatment you mention. By campaigning for animals rights in a variety of ways, I help bring attention to the issues involved, which does lead to positive outcomes, such as the decision made by Cork Co. Council.:-) So no I won't be able to change the world, but I can and do change the world for as many individuals as I can.