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Report back from Gluaiseacht Anti Shell actions in London

category international | rights, freedoms and repression | feature author Tuesday March 18, 2008 21:48author by Fergal - Gluaiseachtauthor email gluaiseacht at gmail dot com Report this post to the editors

Gluaiseacht travellers home from succesful trip to London.

featured image
On the move!

Gluaiseacht members along with Shell to Sea campaigners, friends and British supporters took part in 3 different actions over the weekend of St Patrick in London. Here is a summary of their story!

Having started at Ennis in County Clare at 11am on Friday the 14th picking up people along the way a full coach load of bewildered people arrived on Rampart street home of the The Rampart Social Center. It is soon to be evicted so we felt lucky to be there.



Having found a place to set up our various air beds and sleeping mats some put the head down for a few hours kip while most went out and about looking to do some site seeing, watch the rugby or catch up with friends or relations in London town.

The rest of the Day was made up of cooking food the masses and having planning meetings for the weekends actions.

THE ACTIONS

Having assembled at the given point on Sunday morning for our part in the Parade it was decided to keep our banners folded for the first few minutes until the parade got underway as he had received warning that organisers weren't happy with protesters in their parade and may ask police to confiscate political banners.

After about 5 mins of walking we unveiled the banners and began singing songs and passing out leaflets to the crowds. We were well received for the most part and the songs streaming out from our many megaphones seemed to lift the crowd on what was a wet and cold london day.

Just as the parade was near its end police did indeed try to take out banners but we were too fast for them. The were quoting the new SOCPA laws which prevent any protest at all within a mile of any point around Westminster Parliament building.

We had heard that Enda kenny and John Gormley were to make speeches at Ken Livingston's St Patrick's party in Trafalgar square later so we headed on up there. As we arrived Mr Gormley was making his speech. We were unable to get near to the stage so instead unveiled ours pipeline and banners at the top end of the square and some members of our group spoke on the mega phone to the assembled crowd about why they were there.

Wet but satisfied we made our way back home to the Rampart.

The SHELL HQ

The following morning we headed over to Waterloo home of Shell in London. The pipe was unwrapped again and presented at the Door of Shell by representatives of the different sections within our group. John from Mayo protesting the coercion of the local community, Bro Anthony from Limerick protesting the Robbery Irish natural resources and Laura from Italy protesting Shells record of crimes and against humanity and the environment world wide. Despite calls for a representative to receive the pipe om Shells behalf none were forthcoming. Then the party started and musicians and mobile sound system cranked out the tunes and the crowd danced Irish jigs outside the building. This helped to keep us warm and our spirits up.

Watch RTE footage here http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0317/corrib.html

The SHELL INVESTORS MEETING

This meeting was one for Shell to sell themselves to potential investors. We decided to remind these investors that it would be unwise to receive stolen property or to become accessories to worldwide human and environmental degradation. With this in mind we went off to The London Tower bridge hotel where the meeting was to take place. The group repeated the earlier performance of music and dancing while parading the pipeline out side the hotel and around the assembled police. Having found the conference room where the meeting was taking place members of the group advised any potential investors of the record of shell worldwide and asked police to arrest those inside for there murderous activities.

With that we all piled onto the bus again to head for home exhausted but exhilarated at the same time.

Related Link: http://www.gluaiseacht.ie

Unveiling the banner having got underway.
Unveiling the banner having got underway.

Bringing the pipeline to Shell
Bringing the pipeline to Shell

marching around Shell hq with the pipeline
marching around Shell hq with the pipeline

Trafalgar square (while John Gormley was speaking)
Trafalgar square (while John Gormley was speaking)

author by Scully - Gluaiseachtpublication date Tue Mar 18, 2008 17:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

More pics

banner drop at Waterloo
banner drop at Waterloo

Dances with Wolves
Dances with Wolves

Musicians
Musicians

loving it
loving it

Whats your poison ?
Whats your poison ?

author by Fergal - Gluaiseachtpublication date Tue Mar 18, 2008 17:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

more pics

Mobile sound system
Mobile sound system

Shy photo Cop number 5466
Shy photo Cop number 5466

Mayo Folks outside Shell HQ
Mayo Folks outside Shell HQ

sHELL
sHELL

The Journey's End (proof we actually were in London)
The Journey's End (proof we actually were in London)

author by Fergal - Gluaiseachtpublication date Tue Mar 18, 2008 17:36author email gluaiseacht at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

more

at the hilton
at the hilton

hilton
hilton

marching to the Hilton
marching to the Hilton

Music
Music

panorama
panorama

author by Fergal - Gluaiseachtpublication date Tue Mar 18, 2008 17:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

m

St Patrick arrives to drive the snakes out!
St Patrick arrives to drive the snakes out!

take it back
take it back

waiting
waiting

author by krossie - wsm personal capacitypublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Looks brilliant especially the pipe - well done looks like a fine series of actions!

author by JJpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 13:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Wonderful stuff!
Congratulations to all involved.

author by lulupublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 13:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Brilliant - that pipe is a grand piece of work - well done all! Stop the gas robbery!

author by Chrissiepublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 13:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The London Police (Metropolitan) sure could teach those Gardai on duty in Mayo a few things about professional policing of non-violent demonstrations: restraint, humour, good manners, lack of violence, and respect for the rights of the individual.

author by Alanpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 15:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The network of people who participated on these actions did an amazing job. Diverse people and affinity groups co-operated with great energy on actions which highlighted the cause to people in London and elsewhere who are unexposed to what the Irish government have allowed to happen in Mayo. I heard positive comments, encouragement, cheering and clapping along the entire route of the St. Patrick's Day parade. A lot of spectators will not have known what is happening in Mayo but were definitely curious what all the cheering was about. It was excellent to witness the level of communication, encouragement, synergy that existed between all who participated and to see people really looking out for one another.

author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 15:59author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

This weekend of protest started outside the Dáil on Friday evening and we went there in spite of the complete absence of 'reprsentatives of the people'. We'd be catching up with some of them later, but in the meantime they sent out some of their humourless minions to bark inane proscriptions and be a minor irritant.

Pipeline outside the Dáil.
Pipeline outside the Dáil.

Martin sending a message - read the t-shirt!
Martin sending a message - read the t-shirt!

Dáil - wide shot.
Dáil - wide shot.

Unambiguous messages from uncomprising campaigners.
Unambiguous messages from uncomprising campaigners.

They've been saying this for a long time - and still the government won't listen.
They've been saying this for a long time - and still the government won't listen.

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 16:19author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

While we were in Dublin we paid brief visits to other buildings that shelter the culpable - the Department of Marine and Natural Resources, and of course, that other enemy HQ, Corrib House. The Gardai followed us from the Dáil and back again. Maybe they find us fascinating.

This Erris man is graphically representing a community condemned to death by Shell. May it never come to pass.
This Erris man is graphically representing a community condemned to death by Shell. May it never come to pass.

Pat explaining the Great Gas Robbery to Dublin's young citizenry.
Pat explaining the Great Gas Robbery to Dublin's young citizenry.

Outside the Dept. of Marine. Would they like to have a pipeline this close?
Outside the Dept. of Marine. Would they like to have a pipeline this close?

$h€ll's Corrib House. Yes Garda, there's something dodgy going on there.
$h€ll's Corrib House. Yes Garda, there's something dodgy going on there.

This enemy facility is somewhere in Wales. We couldn't help ourselves.
This enemy facility is somewhere in Wales. We couldn't help ourselves.

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 16:43author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Big respect to our London friends and campaigning colleagues in Shell to Sea from all around Britain. They were the special ingredient in our weekend road trip of protest and celebration of defiance. Thank you to the Ramparts collective and Rising Tide, and all others who gave us a London St. Patrick's Day to remember! No marks however to the Metropolitan Polite, who sneakily diverted us from passing the reviewing stand. Minister John Gormless and Inda Kinny leader of the no-opposition have sank to new levels of cowardice - sheltering behind 'anti-terrorism' (well really they're anti-protest) laws. Their ears are far too delicate to be exposed to our opinions; such are the taboos of corporate demockery.

Would you get a viewing porthole on an Irish site hoarding? Would you f*@k!
Would you get a viewing porthole on an Irish site hoarding? Would you f*@k!

Ramparts. Getting ready for the parade.
Ramparts. Getting ready for the parade.

Look sharp! The parade's about to start!
Look sharp! The parade's about to start!

On the parade. That man with the brown envelope looks made for Dáil Eireann.
On the parade. That man with the brown envelope looks made for Dáil Eireann.

Outside the British National Gallery. Gormless was addressing the party at Trafalgar Sq. at the time of taking.
Outside the British National Gallery. Gormless was addressing the party at Trafalgar Sq. at the time of taking.

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 17:14author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

We got a very positive reception from the parade watchers, some of whom were already familiar with the Corrib Gas Swindle. St. Patrick's Day is a very important social occasion for the Irish in London, and many there would immediately understand what's going on - after all they too were betrayed in their time by a ruling class at home too greedy and too lazy to apply themselves to the deep structural problems of the Irish capitalist economy. All flavours of the Establishment in Ireland have prioritised family and/or faction over the common good for far too long - that's one of the reasons behind the Irish Diaspora. There are others too, but as Peadar O'Donnell put it, it could have been a different million who left in the first half of the 20th Century. We got lumped with the finest gobshites fee-paying boarding schools could produce. Belmullet National School died so that Clongowes Wood could live. The Great Gas Robbery owes something to that elite contempt for the people.

Trafalgar Sq. again. Re-configure the project and re-negotiate the deal!
Trafalgar Sq. again. Re-configure the project and re-negotiate the deal!

Erris Farmer - endangered species thanks to $h€ll.
Erris Farmer - endangered species thanks to $h€ll.

St. Patrick says, 'BEGONE CORPORATE SNAKES!'
St. Patrick says, 'BEGONE CORPORATE SNAKES!'

$h€ll HQ. Would they like a raw gas pipeline that close to them?
$h€ll HQ. Would they like a raw gas pipeline that close to them?

$h€ll should bloody well celebrate St. Patrick's Day - Ireland's their corporate life-saver. Where else would give away their oil and gas?
$h€ll should bloody well celebrate St. Patrick's Day - Ireland's their corporate life-saver. Where else would give away their oil and gas?

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 17:32author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

$h€ll's London HQ looks somewhat drab when compared to the flashier corporate and public buildings in London. I suppose when you're a corporation for whom corruption and mass murder can be acceptable business practices you don't want to be too conspicuous. It's still a bloody big building, though, but we will bring it low before all struggle is done.

Well-travelled banner. Seen a lot, that banner.
Well-travelled banner. Seen a lot, that banner.

I'm feeling blue over what $h€ll do...
I'm feeling blue over what $h€ll do...

They won't let us in. Some pipelines are more acceptable to $h€ll than others.
They won't let us in. Some pipelines are more acceptable to $h€ll than others.

Panorama shot of the pipeline.
Panorama shot of the pipeline.

They might spruce up this ugly-ass building when the Great Gas Robbery kicks in. Somehow I doubt it.
They might spruce up this ugly-ass building when the Great Gas Robbery kicks in. Somehow I doubt it.

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 17:54author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

It is probably true that protests like this won't save Erris from destruction or halt the Great Gas Robbery, but there's value in doing these things - the public in London get to know what some of their nastiest corporate residents get up to, and $h€ll can't conduct their bloody and corrupt business in an anonymous fashion. They annoy us - we annoy them. We will dog their steps forever if needs be.

The number plate says it all. $h€ll and friends will try to rob the Irish people to the tune of €600 billion. And rising.
The number plate says it all. $h€ll and friends will try to rob the Irish people to the tune of €600 billion. And rising.

Music. Will it charm the $h€ll snakes?
Music. Will it charm the $h€ll snakes?

That banner again. It knows neither tiredness nor fear.
That banner again. It knows neither tiredness nor fear.

All scenarios in the shot glasses somehow reminded us of the Gardaí at Bellanaboy.
All scenarios in the shot glasses somehow reminded us of the Gardaí at Bellanaboy.

Mná cróga Iorrais. That's the only pipeline they'll ever let get close to them!
Mná cróga Iorrais. That's the only pipeline they'll ever let get close to them!

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 18:18author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Big thanks to Gluaiseacht for organising this superlative road trip to the Lairs of the Beasts. Never before have I spent such a concentrated weekend in London, and the fifteen-plus hours I spent sleeping when I got home was no price to pay at all. The weekend injected new energy into the campaign, and we made new connections as we reinforced those that already existed. It was a delight to meet our London comrades, and their generosity of time and spirit will be honoured and remembered for years to come.

London Rising Tide brought a troubadour of solidarity and radical tidings.
London Rising Tide brought a troubadour of solidarity and radical tidings.

A real Erris Exile telling it like it is.
A real Erris Exile telling it like it is.

Group photo outside enemy HQ.
Group photo outside enemy HQ.

The Robbery is being orchestrated in that building behind us.
The Robbery is being orchestrated in that building behind us.

This was outside the hotel where the $h€ll investors' meeting was happening. So much swankier than that large corporate dump down the road.
This was outside the hotel where the $h€ll investors' meeting was happening. So much swankier than that large corporate dump down the road.

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Simonpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 18:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Very happy to have been able to attend and support this weekend in London. Thanks to all involved for organising it, what a great bunch of people. Plenty of photo's on here already, but I'll add a few more anyway.
These are from the parade and demo on Sunday:

Preparations in the assembly area
Preparations in the assembly area

A colourful character
A colourful character

A message
A message

The banner on Piccadilly
The banner on Piccadilly

Demo outside the National Portrait Gallery, Trafalgar Square
Demo outside the National Portrait Gallery, Trafalgar Square

author by Conor Creganpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 18:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

.

dscf5347.jpg

garda_review_4.jpg

dscf5258.jpg

dscf5257.jpg

dscf5260.jpg

author by Conor Creganpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 18:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

.

dscf0820.jpg

bbbb.jpg

dscf5259mmmmmmmmmmmmm.jpg

dscf5308.jpg

dscf5351.jpg

author by Simonpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 18:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Monday morning on the South Bank

shell170308_1_023.jpg

They don't want the pipe.  I wonder why?
They don't want the pipe. I wonder why?

shell170308_1_068.jpg

"Cleaner city air".  Doesn't matter in Mayo then?
"Cleaner city air". Doesn't matter in Mayo then?

Surely a more accurate name?
Surely a more accurate name?

author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 18:49author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

One of the great strengths of the Shell to Sea campaign is the enormous international solidarity it has enjoyed. There have been many activists from Britain and further afield who've put in massive time and put their bodies on the line to defeat the iniquitous Corrib Gas project. It gives the lie to the $h€ll/government spin that this is some obscure dispute between factions of Mayo peasants. If people in London can see plainly what the Irish establishment contrive to ignore, then the latter is surely afflicted with either a defective or selective sense of vision. Business rule will beggar us all in the end as the planet's dwindling energy resources are stolen from citizens to give to shareholders. Shell to Sea will stand alongside all who would block the progress of this Robbery. If we give into corrupt criminals in the here-and-now, Ireland's and the world's children will inherit a maimed planet and a blighted future. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If we succeed now then heroic remedies will not be neccessary.

Can fund managers read? That's what we've come to find out, among other things.
Can fund managers read? That's what we've come to find out, among other things.

They're lucky we're not giving them the full nine kilometres!
They're lucky we're not giving them the full nine kilometres!

Some Londoners giving us a hand. Solidarity from everywhere - it's great.
Some Londoners giving us a hand. Solidarity from everywhere - it's great.

Up close and a bit more personal. For the benefit of the selectively blind.
Up close and a bit more personal. For the benefit of the selectively blind.

This test is for fund managers' hearing, and also to see if they appreciate culture over money.
This test is for fund managers' hearing, and also to see if they appreciate culture over money.

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Ray - Cork Shell to Seapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 19:09author email corkshelltosea at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

We left London tired but elated, a packed schedule of actions successfully completed, and with our campaigning zeal redoubled we returned to the Ould Sod. Even if $h€ll relocate their corporate HQ to Mars Shell to Sea will start its own space programme. We'll keep on defying the corrupt, the greedy and the violent who intend to rob and poison us all. Come and join us in this struggle - not only will you halt the destruction of Erris and halt the Great Gas Robbery, you'll have the world of fun confronting unaccountable Power with unambiguous Truth and vital Defiance. Come take your turn on the stage of history!

End of mission group photo. FANK YOU LAHNDAHN!!!
End of mission group photo. FANK YOU LAHNDAHN!!!

Impromptu banner display in Limerick city while waiting to go back to Cork. We really can't help ourselves.
Impromptu banner display in Limerick city while waiting to go back to Cork. We really can't help ourselves.

Related Link: http://www.corribsos.com
author by Ciaron O'Reilly - London Catholic Workerpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 19:42author address London, Englandauthor phone Report this post to the editors

It was a real privilege and joy to spend three daze with this crew.

The vibe was great, the visuals were spectacular (great pipeline, wonderful st. patrick's kit whipped up on short notice), meeting facilitation by the "rising tide" woman brilliant, the humour was constant.

Good mix of folks from all over Ireland, quite a few london irish (guy from Ramparts collective, fella who played the farmer and some older Mayo folks who have been living here for years) all enjoyed being back amongst the tribe. Well worth the cold I picked up on the parade.

I was heading down to the Catholic Worker cafe in Dalston on Tuesday morning to discover Mary from Mayo has been living on our block for years...we spotted each other at Monday's demo....so a basis for a lot of more solidarity action in the imperial city. As I'm sure the bus bonding experience for the 50 or so will contribute to a basis of growing trust and experience for the Rossport campaign and many others in the future.

The london cops are very professional...you're not going to get that amateur night "robocop" spontaneity...but they can go form 0-100 on the agro scale when the orders come down the line. The laws they used on us at the end of Sunday's parade are extremely authoritarian. For a humourous background on these laws...check out Mark Thomas dvd http://www.markthomasinfo.com/

Congratulations to all those who put the work in and made the journey.

Related Link: http://www.londoncatholicworker.org
author by Simonpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 20:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Monday afternoon, London Bridge Hilton Hotel

Shareholders denied entry
Shareholders denied entry

shell170308_2_035.jpg

shell170308_2_050.jpg

You are surrounded!
You are surrounded!

shell170308_2_072.jpg

author by Simonpublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 20:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

London Bridge Hilton, part 2

Lineup
Lineup

Cheers!
Cheers!

shell170308_2_093.jpg

shell170308_2_096.jpg

author by winifred - shelltoseapublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 22:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

i hope he is in san francisco i guess i should have brought him to new york disappointed win

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Wed Mar 19, 2008 23:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Thanks a million to all involved.

Ar scáth a chéile ...

author by Cathalpublication date Thu Mar 20, 2008 08:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well done lads. looks like a brilliant weekend.

Related Link: http://www.mayogasinfo.com
author by Mark O'Connor - Glu rock babiespublication date Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Good to see the fundraiser money was well spent! Looks like I missed a good one...

Will forward this link onto the rockers in Limerick.

The 'Ould Main Drag' in London never saw the like of ye lot gettin off the bus!

Rock on,
Love,
M

author by Chrissiepublication date Thu Mar 20, 2008 13:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We'll never give up for Rossport & Erris's people & environment! Love & solidarity to all who made the brilliant weekend's actions possible. Viva Rossport!!!

author by JTpublication date Thu Mar 20, 2008 14:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

MacE are you claiming that the board of Kilcommon GAA were unaware of the fact that their group applied for funding?
If that was the case, why have they not issued a statement to that effect, I think it is time MacE stops trying to make excuses for the fact most people are no longer bothered about the protests.

author by billy idlepublication date Thu Mar 20, 2008 22:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Most of the processing of the gas with repect to Kinsale occured at Sea.

Processing of raw gas via a pipeline running through an unstable blanket bog next to a majour source of drinking water is very different to what occured with the Kinsale field

PS - Channel 4 news recently uncovered yet more evidence of appalling safety standards on facilties run by Shell in the North Sea. Simlar standards led to the deaths of a number of workers on a rig run by Shell off Scoland in 2005.

author by frustratedpublication date Thu Mar 20, 2008 22:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Years into a campaign, people jailed, fined, beaten, criminalised; books written and published, acres of newspaper articles, television programmes, internet sites, radio shows, leaflets, people standing on rooftops, street corners, visiting South America, South Africa, South Dublin...

And we still have people camparing what Shell want to in Mayo with Kinsale.

Kinsale is the industry standard. Nobody would have the slightest problem if they refined the gas from Corrib the same way they refine the gas from Kinsale, at sea.

Shell to Sea, get it?

If they had chosen to do it the way they do it at Kinsale this campaign would be a lot different, if it existed at all.

author by dohpublication date Thu Mar 20, 2008 23:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Processing of raw gas via a pipeline running through an unstable blanket bog next to a majour source of drinking water is very different to what occured with the Kinsale field"
what has blanket bog to do with seafood?
and to further confuse things we get "Nobody would have the slightest problem if they refined the gas from Corrib the same way they refine the gas from Kinsale, at sea"
what about our natural resource giveaway, I thought we wanted that back?

author by billy idlepublication date Thu Mar 20, 2008 23:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Check out what Shell refineries and connected activities have done to inshore waters in places as diverse as the Niger Delta, Russian Far East, Alaska etc.

author by Ok Billypublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 08:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

billy idle said "Check out what Shell refineries and connected activities have done to inshore waters in places as diverse as the Niger Delta, Russian Far East, Alaska etc."
Thank you billy for that, can you tell us more, or at least post links to this support that claim that gas refineries in those places have impacted on the local seafood,(or is this more scare stories without facts?)

author by billy idlepublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 13:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Check out the Feb 07 of National Geographic, the WWF Russia website,
Royal Dutch Shell. com etc. etc.

author by Ok Billypublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 16:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Done all that, still nothing comparable to Erris project, maybe its me, can you post a direct link so as to make it easy for me.
OR was I right that you are trying to bluff?
It is the likes of Billy who gives S2S a bad name, making claims which are unfounded., his claim that the dumping of mud into a bay in shakilin is comparable to what is proposed for Erris is a joke.
That mud is from a area where a harbour is been built, nothing to do with emmisions from a gas refinery.
Please cite an example where a gas refinery has had an impact on local seafood!

author by billy idlepublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 16:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I hope your just pretending to be stupid - If you can't see the common thread between these projects I've outlined then you should really go back and finish your junior cert. Eithier way your not worth any adults time arguing with. My pet Lab would get it quicker

PS - Given that the refinery hasn't even been built yet and already the nearby Lake Carrowmore has been polluted by Aluminium discharges originating from the Bellanaboy site, one shudders to think what will happen when the start discharging waste -officially- into Broadhaven Bay SAC. Sadly yet another case of Deja vu when it comes to this companies record around the world.

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 17:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors


'Done all that, still nothing comparable to Erris project, ...'

That's the point, Billy!!

A 'beachhead refinery 9km inland; sited in a bog within the catchment of a regional water supply; a proposed raw gas pipeline running through an area of proven instability; a 'planning and regulatory process' not so much split as fragmented ... of course there's nothing comparable, Billy.

No other country would consign its citizenry to the corporate will having ceded any bargaining power through servility, sycophancy or plain brown envelope self-serving.

That's a very short precis of why you can't find anything comparable, Billy.

author by Ok Billy&Maurapublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 18:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Let me try getting my head around this, Billy "idle" says those examples are comparable, while Maura says there isn't a comparable refinery on the planet.
I think Billy idle should either post a link to show where emissions from a gas refinery has impacted on seafood, or stop making up stories.
I dare you to post a link BILLY!

Ps. maybe his "pet lab" could explain to him that grownups should not make up tall tales just to feel important!
PPs. maura the Dooncarton Landslide Committee Kilcommon are not as worried as you are about Shell, they took the shilling!

author by Chrissiepublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 19:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If you need more, there's also Shell's record on human rights & environment in Nigeria's Ogoniland, the deaths of the Ogoni 9, Amnesty International's file on Shell, the new contracts being discussed for Iraqi oil by certain oil companies....& taking Shell's money is not the same as supporting them.

author by Pretend Erris Grant Getterspublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 21:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It turns the Dooncartan landslide committee didn't have the money paid into the committee's bank account- instead the cheque went straight to Mayo County Council. And some members of the committee found out about this grant from Shell to Mayo County Council after it had all been arranged. Strange, no?

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Fri Mar 21, 2008 22:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just one quibble with Pretend post - would amend 'some' to 'most'.

Typical of $hell global bagman behaviour.

author by Eamonn O'Coilea'ins - Republic of Irelandpublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 01:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well I was reading and seen the gonbeens ??? so read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning and sea how dangerous it is to have your seefood taited with toxions. One of the many poisonous heavey metals in raw gas is mercury, we do not want poison in our childrens fish & chips. by the way you sound like john eagen just like your other names that you have wrote down in the past yrs,

author by Educatorpublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 07:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ah Ed is back with more misinformation.
Here are some interesting "facts" on mercury and seafood.

"Mercury levels in yellowfin tuna caught off the coast of Hawaii have not changed in 27 years, despite a considerable increase in atmospheric mercury during this time, according to a new study. The findings suggest that the high levels of mercury that have been found in tuna and other ocean fish may not be coming from pollution, but from natural sources."

“People have assumed that the high mercury in fish must be from pollution,” says Franois Morel, Ph.D., a professor of geochemistry at Princeton University and an author of the study. “We have about tripled the mercury in the atmosphere, and therefore it should be tripled in the ocean, right? But maybe mercury that occurs in fish is a natural thing, and it may have been there all along.”

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/MediaAlerts/2....html

And as an American I'm sure Ed requires evidence which would stand up to scrutiny in their Superior Court!
As a example see:

"Mercury Decision: 'Virtually All' Mercury In Ocean Fish Is 'From Natural Sources'
The Judge ruled that "there is no dispute that most of the methylmercury in the ocean exists completely independently of human activity." Dr. Francois Morel, a noted Princeton University environmental scientist, testified that the percentage of mercury in tuna that originates from human sources "is either zero or 1.5 per cent."

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline.../3033

I can provide lots more if Ed needs convincing!

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 08:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Would it be possible to provide the current mercury levels in fish species in Broadhaven Bay Educator ... (would it Gogarty!).

It isn't possible because no detailed study designed to provide such information has ever been undertaken.

Quotes from the US Supreme Court are therefore largely irrelevant.

author by Gogartypublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

FYI, a contract has been agreed between Shell and a fishing vessel to begin work on a comprehensive baseline survey of Broadhaven bay and its surrounds, beginning Summer 2008, and will be complete before production commences in 2009.
Maybe Then Maura will have sufficient data to compare and contrast with published scientific facts!

And before you get carried away with The pristine environment off mayo's coast, have a look at a map of the most polluted oceans on the planet at http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=ocean-impact-map

And here is a close up of the mayo coats as it stands now, is the corrib project responsible for this? http://www.sciam.com/media/inline/1E412D01-B7BB-FA8D-B0...1.jpg

Here is a sample of what has been discovered.
"The map offers a guide to the most impacted areas, not surprisingly located where the most human activities occur, such as in waters adjacent to cities on the coasts of the North Sea, Mediterranean, Persian Gulf and South China Sea as well as off North America's eastern seaboard, among others. Yet, the map is crude, Halpern says. "Aquaculture, recreational fishing, sediment input from rivers that are being blocked by dams, atmospheric pollution—we know these are problems or potential problems and we wanted to include them but we just couldn't find the data," he notes. "Our results are almost certainly conservative."" (not a mention of gas refinery discharges!).

author by billy idlepublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

They didn't mention problems with Pthalate, PCB bioaccmulation in coastal waters which has been proven to be a problem right round the world. Because it weasn't mentioned in the summary does that mean it doesn't exist despite acres of scientific literature published on the subject??.

This is what happens when muppets whose view of the world is shaped by their own gombeen mentality. Stick to the tabloids son!!

author by Gogartypublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 19:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why is it that when one claim from S2S is shown to be incorrect, they relentlessly move to try scare people with a different angle.
No comment on why the "pristine" waters off the mayo coast, are now shown to be some of the most contaminated on the planet.

I suppose it is a bit like the aluminum in our (Carrowmore) drinking water, it must be because of Shell, but when levels of the metal in drinking water in other parts of the county were announced we had silence from S2S, here is an example "and highlighted that aluminum levels in the water supply in Westport were eight times above standard levels. Similarly, supplies in Mulranny and Shrule also contained excessive amounts of this metal, http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&tas...id=40
Who was to blame for that?

So Billy/S2S can we please have a logical debate, not the usual hype!
Is the map wrong, is the ocean off our coast polluted, if so why? these are the questions you should be asking, because everytime we hear a scare story from S2S which proves to be fiction it is your campaign which suffers.
A case of the boy who cried wolf!

author by soundmigrationpublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 20:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ok i'm no self declared scientist but

while its possible that mercury levels in the atmosphere have no relationship to those in the sea, but seems very very unlikely. if the mercury is released directly to the atmoshpere then it is immediatedly apparent, but its absorbsion by (sea) water would take substantially longer, and given the slow movement and accumulation of mercury through the food chain it easy to predict an considerable difference between air and tuna mercury levels.

“We have about tripled the mercury in the atmosphere, and therefore it should be tripled in the ocean, right? "

Thats a fairly basic crude assumption on behalf of our credible scientist.... He is setting out to prove a linear relationship when even a novice like myself can see that that assumption wouldnt last cursury consideration. Having set that as a strawman to disprove and then 'disprove' it is piss poor 'science'

personally i would give much credence to a ruling by an appointee of the state. Especially a judge who accept someone stating as fact something a baldfacedly nonsense as " ...the percentage of mercury in tuna that originates from human sources "is either zero or 1.5 per cent." .....either zero or 1.5per cent. just how is such a 'fact ' possible

glad i'm not up in front of that judge for anything...

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 20:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Time to call time on the trolls, even though their trolling is grist to our mill - it means we're still rattling their cage!

I would like to once again thank the organisers of the trip to London and all who took part in any way.

Saro-Wiwa's words:

The Lone Protestor

The lone protestor is a voice
inconvenient to the gilded ears
of policy makers in the rarified air
of marble halls in London and Rotterdam
To be muzzled with money, guns or both
Or shut in prison where silence locks doors
and windows day and night and throws
away the key into history's incinerator.

We are not alone and we outdo you trolls - and your paymasters - in competence and commitment and we will see you in Hell for your nasty, grubby, cheap subversion of what is right.

author by Educator!publication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 20:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

soundmigration,
You don't need to be a scientist to discover fact from fiction, that is why we have scientists, so they can do the research and number crunching and inform laypeople of the facts.
If you aspire to become a credible researcher, let alone a scientist, maybe you should start with the basics.

Here is the courts judgment in full, it explains how and why it reached the verdict it did http://www.fishscam.com/downloads/060512_mercury_decisi...n.pdf (happy reading).
You might want to carefully read the part (pages 61-85) where it was shown that when a fish which was held by a museum from"1880" was tested, it contained as much mercury as fish caught today! explain that?

author by billy idlepublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 21:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Gogarty claims that Erris inshore waters are "the most contaminated in the planet".

Why don't you actually read the study you quoted which mentions the Med, Yellow Sea, parts of the North Sea etc. Nowhere does it mention the west coast of ireland. I'm sorry but amaterish interpretations of a very low resolution map do not cut it!!.

author by Gogartypublication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 21:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Maybe if Billy had saved the thumbnail picture from that site to his computer, and zoomed in on it, he could have clearly seen the map in detail!
Try that, and if you cant clearly see the map let me know and I will post an enlarged picture.

author by .publication date Sat Mar 22, 2008 22:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

is this clear enough?

darker red,= more polluted
darker red,= more polluted

author by Cockeney sparrapublication date Sun Mar 23, 2008 02:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Nothing to do with Gluaiseacht, but on the same day as the action at the Shell HQ, a number of Shell petrol stations in London found that their pumps had been D-locked together.

This simple, peaceful and effective tactic shuts down the petrol station until the locks can be removed with a hacksaw.

D locks are freely available in bike shops in Ireland, and anyone with a few minutes to spare, a hooded top and a push bike would be able to emulate this action.

394271.jpg

394272.jpg

394273.jpg

394274.jpg

394275.jpg

author by concernedpublication date Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

from looking at that map i wonder is the fish caught in that area now are safe to eat, how could the northwest coast of ireland become so polluted.
there are no industuries or major cities, so where did it come from.
it will be intresting to see the results of the basline study.

author by Maura Harrington - S2S; Davitt Leaguepublication date Sun Mar 23, 2008 14:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Isn't this soooo dreadful 'concerned'!!!

Only one thing to do really since 'concerned' is sooo concerned - no industries, no cities and the place is soooo polluted - hang the bogtrotters and build a petrochemical complex.

Is that your best shot 'concerned'?!

author by maura advisorpublication date Sun Mar 23, 2008 15:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Maybe this would be an interesting fact for the local papers to cover, they have carried the "pristine waters" story for years, so I'm sure they would be interested to know the true facts, don't you agree Maura?
Maura can claim some of the credit for this fact been made known.
I will email the link to all local media, and see if any are interested in covering the story.
I will keep you informed.

author by billy idlepublication date Sun Mar 23, 2008 16:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It is a map of human impacts including fishing effort. Of course the waters off the West coast are the most heavily fished since they are the most productive in the EU. Hense the presence of huge Dutch, French and Spanish factory ships(indeed another example of irish governments giving away another valuable natural resource). These ships are doing huge damge to deep water reefs in the rockall basin through bottom trawling and ghost fishing . That is what that map is showing. It has noting to do with pollution. The trolls on here have shot themselves in the foot again. Whose borrowed the braincell today folks???

author by billy idlepublication date Sun Mar 23, 2008 17:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The individual who posted the map purporting to be of pollution in and around the BI should be aware that it is highly illegal to copy the product of some ones elses research and reproduce it in another context with a false title(blatently in this case). Your sailing close to the wind sonny!!

PS - This is what happens when gombeens like gogarty and his buddies stray into an area where their dearth of knowledge or understanding is so massive it ends up exposing them for the empty vessels they are. Stick to the stuff you know lads ie cock and bull!!

author by Chrissiepublication date Sun Mar 23, 2008 19:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Satellite photos show huge plankton 'blooms' off the N Mayo coast, probably the reason for cetacean visits.

author by Gogartypublication date Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well Bily claims "It is a map of human impacts including fishing effort. Of course the waters off the West coast are the most heavily fished since they are the most productive in the EU."

see: http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/87FB3436-8A22-437C-99...a.pdf

Fishing Activity:

The waters around Ireland are some of the most productive

fishing grounds in the world. In 2004, an estimated 1.5 million

tonnes of fish (worth €1.4 Billion) were landed from these

waters by the international fishing fleets, mainly from Spain,

France, UK, Norway, Holland and Ireland. The main fish species

caught are mackerel, horse mackerel, blue whiting, herring, cod,

whiting, haddock, saithe, hake, megrim, monkfish plaice, sole and

Nephrops.

The map shows some of the fishing vessel activity in the

waters around Ireland in 2004. The data is derived from Irish

Naval Sightings of fishing vessel activity and provide a good

indication of the relative level and areas of fishing within Irelands

EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone). The purple dots are Spanish

vessels; the yellow dots are French vessels; the blue dots are UK

vessels and the green dots are Irish vessels

effort.jpg

author by Gogartypublication date Mon Mar 24, 2008 13:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Here is how they know where the fishing boats are fishing:
Vessel Monitoring System (VMS)
The Fisheries Monitoring Centre at Naval Base Haulbowline, is the designated National centre with responsibility for satellite monitoring of all fishing activity in Irish EFL and all Irish fishing vessels operating around the world.
http://www.military.ie/naval/specialists/fmc/index.htm

So, now you see that Billy's claim that the "pollution Map" above is a map of fishing activates, is clearly wrong.

author by Fearbolg - S2Spublication date Mon Mar 24, 2008 16:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors


I had a look at the sciam.com website as Mr. Gogarty advised, and I was struck by the amazing technical detail of Mr Biello's findings.

He's able to inform us that the 'least affected' areas of the planet are "shallow seas with muck at the bottom". If you don't believe me go to

the address provided by Mr. Gogarty on one of his previous postings and have a laugh. I now begin to see why these guys are called

trolls. They troll through everything to try to find any small crumb of comfort which might justify their position, even to the extent of quoting

a man who apparently swims in "shallow seas with muck at the bottom"

Actually it's not far away from a useful definition of a troll, Mr. Gogarty included:

"A shallow mind with muck as its output"

author by Soundmigrationpublication date Mon Mar 24, 2008 17:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So Shell have now hired the guns of Rick Berman.......morer on him and his goons below but re comments from Educator

Ok here we go

Just to get on the path of being a credible researcher, I took a look at the website that your ‘scientific’ report is published on. The main site Fish Scam, kinda looked abit weird straight away, and obviously is not a independent site, or neutral either. It’s a front for the capitalist leaders of the food industry..

I quote
“MercuryFacts.org is a project of the, dedicated to promoting personal responsibility and protecting consumer choices.
A growing cabal of environmental activist groups, public health researchers, and government bureaucrats are using junk science to needlessly frighten Americans about the fish they eat. This scam has very little public opposition, but we're here to set the record straight.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Increasingly we have seen the language of grassroots activity being co-opted by corporations attempting to masquerade as genuine “ nonprofit coalition”(s). Particularly widespread in the US, the practice is increasingly being used in Western Europe. This groups are fraudsters, and capitalists ideologues.

FishScam.com is one of the many projects of Rick Berman's Center for Consumer Freedom, a front group for the restaurant, alcohol and tobacco industries. FishScam.com argues that the safe level of mercury in fish is the EPA's Base Dose Lower Limit (BDLL) not the "reference dose." The reference dose is calculated on the lowest dosage of mercury that may cause nerve damage and is set at one-tenth of the BDLL to account for variables such as body size and allow a margin of safety. Where groups campaigning for stricter limits, testing and advice on mercury in fish have set web-based calulators based on the reference dose, FishSCam.org's equivalent calculator is based on the BDLL.

The director of food policy at the nonprofit Consumers Union, Jean Halloran, told Village Voice that FishScam's campaign was irresponsible. "What Berman is essentially saying is that there's no need to have a margin of error. It's really extraordinary and extremely irresponsible. Many people have educated themselves about this issue, but I'm concerned that less-educated women who don't realize he is industry-funded will take his advice."

The Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) (formerly called the "Guest Choice Network") is a front group for the restaurant, alcohol and tobacco industries. It runs media campaigns which oppose the efforts of scientists, doctors, health advocates, environmentalists and groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving, calling them "the Nanny Culture -- the growing fraternity of food cops, health care enforcers, anti-meat activists, and meddling bureaucrats who 'know what's best for you.' "

In a May 11, 2002 San Francisco Chronicle article, CCF spokesman John Doyle responded to questions about nationwide radio ads put out by the group. He said the ads were meant to attract people to their website and "draw attention to our enemies: just about every consumer and environmental group, chef, legislator or doctor who raises objections to things like pesticide use, genetic engineering of crops or antibiotic use in beef and poultry." ......................

In a 1999 interview with the Chain Leader, a trade publication for restaurant chains, Berman boasted that he attacks activists more aggressively than other lobbyists. "We always have a knife in our teeth," he said. Since activists "drive consumer behavior on meat, alcohol, fat, sugar, tobacco and caffeine," his strategy is "to shoot the messenger. ... We've got to attack their credibility as spokespersons."
In November 2001, the Guest Choice Network launched a separate web site, ActivistCash.com, which purports to expose the "hidden funding" of various activist groups that support animal rights, food safety and smoking prevention. In January 2002 the Guest Choice Network renamed itself the Center for Consumer Freedom.

So educator we aren’t fooled by your ‘independent science’

we are on to ya!!!!!

_____________________________________________________________________

So who is Rick Berman.....A capitalist activist!!!!!

Richard B. (Rick) Berman is a former labor management attorney and restaurant industry executive who currently works as a lobbyist for the food, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. He is the sole owner of Berman & Co., which sponsors many front groups that defend his corporate clients' interests by attacking their critics, allowing his paying clients to remain out of public view.

He is the President, Executive Director and Director of the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF). CCF's 2005 IRS return states that Berman works 23 hours a week for the group for which he is paid $18,000. [1] In spite of its name, was more concerned about industry than the consumer. He is also the Executive Director and President of both the Employment Policies Institute Foundation and the American Beverage Institute. [2]

According to a July 31, 2006, profile of Berman in USA Today, his company has 28 employees and takes in $10 million dollars a year, but "only Berman and his bookkeeper wife" know how much of the $10 million ends up in their own pockets. At the same time in a 1999 interview with the Chain Leader, a trade publication for restaurant chains, Berman explained the focus of his lobbying efforts, which mirror his non-profit groups' activities. "In effect, our work is restricted to and focused on issues that affect shareholder value," he said. "These big issues include labor costs as they relate to health insurance and the minimum wage."

Berman & Co. lobbies for companies such as Cracker Barrel, Hooters, International House of Pancakes, Olive Garden, Outback Steakhouse, Red Lobster, Steak & Ale, TGI Friday's, Uno's Restaurants, and Wendy's. It also operates a network of several front groups, web sites, and think tanks that work to keep wages low for restaurants and to block legislation on food safety, secondhand cigarette smoke, and drunk driving.

As a private company, Berman & Co. is not required to disclose its finances. However, two of its front groups - the Center for Consumer Freedom and the Employment Policies Institute Foundation - are registered as tax-exempt nonprofit organizations, and they are required to disclose some financial information to the Internal Revenue Service which is publicly available by inspecting their IRS Form 990s.

Although Berman refuses to disclose the identity of its anonymous funders, the following companies have been linked to Berman & Co. in news reports and other public documents:

* American Restaurant Group, Inc.
* Anheuser-Busch
* Arby's
* Brinker International, Inc.
* Burger King
* Carson Restaurants Worldwide
* Chili's
* Chi-Chi's
* Cracker Barrel
* El Torito
* Empire State Restaurant and Tavern Association
* Hard Rock Café
* Hooters of America, Inc.
* Houston's Restaurants, Inc.
* International House of Pancakes
* Jack-in-the-Box
* KKR Enterprises, Inc.
* Luby's, Inc.
* Marie Callender Pie Shops, Inc.
* Marriott Corp.
* Metromedia Restaurant Group
* Olive Garden
* Outback Steakhouse, Inc.
* Panda Management Company, Inc.
* Perkins Family Restaurants, L.P.
* Philip Morris
* Rare Hospitality International
* Red Lobster
* Shoney's, Inc.
* Sizzler
* Steak & Ale
* TGI Friday's
* Uno Restaurant Corp.
* Vicorp Restaurants, Inc.
* Wendy's

[edit]
Contact Information

The Center for Consumer Freedom, ActivistCash.com, the Employment Policies Institute and the American Beverage Institute all share office space with Berman & Co., at the following address:

Berman & Co.
1775 Pennsylvania Ave. NW, Suite 1200
Washington, DC 20006
Phone: (202) 463-7110
FAX: (202) 463-7107
Email: rberman@new-reality.com
Website: http://www.bermanco.com/

Berman Websites:

* http://www.abionline.org
* http://www.activistcash.com
* http://www.consumerfreedom.com
* http://www.cspinot.org
* http://www.epionline.org
* http://www.guestchoice.com
* http://www.livingwage.com
* http://www.minimumwage.com
* http://www.bermanco.com
* http://mercuryfacts.org
* http://www.unionfacts.org

i wonder if Educator is in the pay of this lobbyist, or maybe is one his/herself, or just is a bit wet behind the ears.... i'll let readers decide!!!!

awaiting a response Educator

Related Link: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_Consumer_Freedom
author by G/Epublication date Mon Mar 24, 2008 22:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Fearbolg - S2S Said "I had a look at the sciam.com website as Mr. Gogarty advised, and I was struck by the amazing technical detail of Mr Biello's findings."

Actually, Mr. Biello is a journalist with Scientific American http://www.sciam.com/ and had nothing to do with the creation of the map.
The map is the work of The National Center for Ecological Analysis and Synthesis (NCEAS), http://www.nceas.ucsb.edu/ the team which compiled the "map" consisted of :
Benjamin S. Halpern,1 Shaun Walbridge,1* Kimberly A. Selkoe,1,2* Carrie V. Kappel,1 Fiorenza Micheli,3 Caterina D'Agrosa,4 John F. Bruno,5 Kenneth S. Casey,6 Colin Ebert,1 Helen E. Fox,7 Rod Fujita,8 Dennis Heinemann,9 Hunter S. Lenihan,10 Elizabeth M. P. Madin,11 Matthew T. Perry,1 Elizabeth R. Selig,6,12 Mark Spalding,13 Robert Steneck,14 Reg Watson15 http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/319/5865/948...#RFN1 .
If you follow the link above you can read in detail how the map was created.

As for our budding researcher "Soundmigration" where he states " I took a look at the website that your ‘scientific’ report is published on".(Shoot the messenger syndrome)

If you have a problem with that website, then you can read the same facts on many others, which you might find more "respectable",.

Here are just a few to get you started:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12798779/ : MSNBC

The judge also found that the mercury levels in the companies' tuna were not high enough to require labels. In addition, he ruled that virtually all the mercury in canned tuna was naturally occurring, exempting them from the warning.

http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/oceanography-book/...n.htm: Dept of oceanography at Texas A&M University,

Superior Court Judge Robert L. Dondero finds methylmercury levels in ocean fish “virtually natural in origin,” and mercury alarm scientists have “credibility problems.” Finds study underlying EPA’s mercury RfD confounded, unreliable and without “statistically significant relationship.”-Center for Science and Public Policy web page on Mercury.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/43547.php : Medical news today

Ruling
Dondero wrote that he made his decision "after hearing extensive expert testimony from both sides and evaluating the persuasiveness and credibility of several peer-reviewed studies" (Cone, Los Angeles Times, 5/13). Dondero also wrote that "the very fact that a warning sign would be posted in stores for a healthy product that the federal government encourages people to eat makes the sign misleading." In addition, he ruled that Proposition 65 requirements do not apply to canned tuna because most of the methylmercury found in tuna exists from natural sources,

If none of those sites are satisfactory, you can go to the Superior Court of California, County of San Francisco own website and see documentation on the entire case. http://www.sftc.org/Scripts/Magic94/mgrqispi94.dll

author by Soundmigrationpublication date Mon Mar 24, 2008 23:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So a judge decides to side with corporations rather than common good and peoples health, what a shocker ....i'm not sure what your piont is.

also you havent addressed any of the ethical issues surrounding the continuing use of front organsiation claiming to be 'consumer groups' when they are just covers for profiteers. Bit like trolls on threads like these really

author by Catherine Parsons - Nonepublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 01:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This thread started as a report on the Gluaiseacht-organised trip to London to symbolically 'return the pipeline to Shell'.

It has been - successfully, to a degree - trolled to somewhere else.

Let's return both the thread and the pipeline to where both belong.

RPS, paid by Shell to come up with a pipeline route, in accordance with the Government facilitator (since 1987) Peter Cassells, have yet failed to so do.

In the interim, Shell proceeds to build the bones of a refinery at Bellanaboy ... and the big oil guys are queuing up ...

Where is/are the proposed connecting pipeline/s going to go???

author by Gogartypublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 09:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"also you havent addressed any of the ethical issues surrounding the continuing use of front organsiation claiming to be 'consumer groups' when they are just covers for profiteers"

If you believe there is "ethical" issues with sites like the one you refer to, then why don't you highlight it, (a new thread maybe?),
Catherine is correct when she says this thread has deviated from its original purpose, but that was because of the false claims of a few who tried to scare the uninformed reader.
Now to take this thread back to where it started, is there anybody here who actually believes Shell wont acquire a route for their pipeline?
Shell wants to run this pipeline to its refinery without having to lay it through Sruwaddacon bay, and they are willing to spend massive amounts to buy landowners consent, but if they fail to get consent they WILL run this pipe up through Sruwaddacon bay, make no mistake about that.
The fact that a green minister will sign a consent to allow this will just add salt to the wounds of opponents.
Walking around London with a toy pipe wont make one bit of a difference!

author by Fearbolg - S2Spublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 14:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Neither will walking around Rossport expecting to con the people for a second time.

author by Fearbolg - S2Spublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 14:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors


By the way, isn't it sad and pathetic to see how splenetic and spiteful these Shell apologists are. Not alone is Gogarty advocating that

the pipeline route be bought at any cost, he want to see 'salt in the wounds' of opponents.

Sad business. Sad man.

author by Gogartypublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 17:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I am neither advocating that the pipeline route be bought at any cost, or see 'salt in the wounds' of opponents.
I am simply saying that I believe a pipeline route is inevitable, and protests will not change that fact.

author by Oliver St.Johnpublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 18:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why should people not stand up to Shell again like they did in 2005?

Why should a Green Party minister not refuse to sign consents to destroy a Special Area of Conservation? (talk about signing your political death warrant...)

Why should Irish people act as guinea pigs for a scheme that won't benefit Ireland?

author by Fearbolg - S2Spublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 18:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors


And this is exactly what I'm interested in. What exactly are you advocating? You've come on here touting a miserable little map that looks

like an omelete with ketchup spilt on it, without offering a meaningful suggestion or a positive comment. I've long been fascinated by

the apologists who come on here because I genuinely have never seen them offer anything to this argument but spite and negativity.

So what do you advocate? In Shell to Sea we have a very easily understood position: we have grave concerns about the Health and

Safety and Environmental implications that this project carries for Erris people, and we resent and oppose the continued giveaway of our

Natural Resourses to Shell et al. We have well researched and articulated arguments around these two issues, none of which I have

ever seen successfully challenged here, or indeed in the wider Media. You guys, on the other hand, appear to be an assorted collection

of ill-informed bar-stool orators who consider it an achievement to demean the people of Erris and insult and ridicule certain individuals

in that community. So maybe you, Gogarty, can break the mould and actually tell us exactly what you hope to achieve by contributing to

this thread. We'd all love to know.

author by Gogartypublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 21:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Fearbolg said "We have well researched and articulated arguments around these two issues, none of which I have ever seen successfully challenged here, or indeed in the wider Media."

This is the problem S2S has, the lack of well researched and articulated arguments.
Summarise your arguments for us, and then look at them and consider if you have facts to support them!

Yes Shell seems to have got a great deal on this gas find, and I agree that Ireland could/should have received more benefit from its own resources, but I suspect the issue of the "giveaway" is a bit of a red herring for the S2S group.
Answer me one question, If Ireland had got a fair deal (tax+royalties) from this find, would it ever have been possible for S2S group to have agreed with a refinery at bellanaboy,
If it was done properly/safely and in consultation with the locals?

author by MacEpublication date Tue Mar 25, 2008 22:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If things were done "properly/safely", Shell to Sea would never have been born. Until they're done "properly/safely", Shell to Sea will most likely keep going

Related Link: http://www.publicinquiry.ie
author by Gogartypublication date Sat Mar 29, 2008 08:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It is assuring to see that Shell seems to have chosen the safest route for the onshore pipeline, Sruwaddaccon Bay.
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86918&comment_limit=0&c...24485

author by billy idlepublication date Sat Mar 29, 2008 08:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Yeah its great isn'nt that Shell are being given carte blanche to destroy an important SAC.Appears such designations aren't worth the paper their written on in Ireland when the big boys get greedy. How is this the safer option?? The pipeline will still be running very near houses at the head of the bay and will be exposed to the powerfull current which has a signficant scouring affect between Rossport and glengad. Given this companys safety record only a the usual shower would argue that this is anything approaching safe.

PS - My arguement about you so callend map of pollution still stands. You still haven't explained why you miss-labelled it. Indeed you ended up in you bluster and nonsense actually proving my arguement. The quality of trolls on here really gets worse by the day.

author by Gogartypublication date Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Billy is back, and still unconvinced by facts.
He says "The pipeline will still be running very near houses at the head of the bay and will be exposed to the powerfull current which has a signficant scouring affect between Rossport and glengad."
The landowners whose houses are at the head of the bay, have given their consent for the pipeline to transverse their lands, if you have a problem with those people having the freedom to decide that they don't have a problem with the pipe, then that is another story.
Further up the bay the pipe will be kept to one side or the other so as to ensure there is maximum distance from any dwelling houses, and WILL comply with safety distance criteria for such pipes!.
And his worry about the " powerful current which has a significant scouring affect between Rossport and Glengad" will be overcome by the fact the pipe will be buried 4 meters below the seabed the entire length of Sruwaddaccon Bay, it will be encased in concrete which is designed to protect the pipe from any corrosive/abrasive effects!.
Finally his rant "PS - My arguement about you so callend map of pollution still stands. You still haven't explained why you miss-labelled it."
I don't believe I "mislabeled" the map, if you go to the site http://www.sciam.com/media/inline/1E412D01-B7BB-FA8D-B0...1.jpg you will see by the legends accompanying the maps, it clearly states that the higher the impacts, the darker the color!
S2S's claim that these waters are "Pristine" is where the mislabeling occurs, Pristine by definition means "Remaining in a pure state; uncorrupted by civilization." http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pristine .
So Maybe Billy too should try some genuine researce before commenting!.

author by Wpublication date Sat Mar 29, 2008 14:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The landowners whose houses are at the head of the bay, have given their consent for the pipeline to transverse their lands..."

Can I ask if you are 100 per cent certain of this?

Are these people aware of the danger they will be in?

" if you have a problem with those people having the freedom to decide that they don't have a problem with the pipe, then that is another story."

Do you have a problem with the fact that those who DO have a problem with the production pipeline face the threat of imprisonment, like the Rossport Five?

Are you sure that people can reach a rational judgment when they have to bear in mind spending a few months in Cloverhill if they don't fall into line?

author by Gogartypublication date Sat Mar 29, 2008 16:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Can I ask if you are 100 per cent certain of this?"
If you look at the alternative pipeline routes, you will see all 3 begin on the same track (agreed with landowners) until it gets to the pier.
"Are these people aware of the danger they will be in?"
Oh yes S2S has them well informed.
"Do you have a problem with the fact that those who DO have a problem with the production pipeline face the threat of imprisonment, like the Rossport Five?"
That is not going to happen, Shell will NOT use CPO's this time, that is a fact!

"Are you sure that people can reach a rational judgment when they have to bear in mind spending a few months in Cloverhill if they don't fall into line?"
See answer above!

author by winifred - shell to sea publication date Tue Apr 01, 2008 01:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

process gas at sea using the twister method this would provide gas safer and cleaner for Ireland also claim 50% profit to fund social and community services Eire deserves nothing less than the best d v this will be enforced inform yourself on twister

author by Gogartypublication date Tue Apr 01, 2008 08:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"process gas at sea using the twister"

Even if the Twister was used on this project you would still need a refinery to remove the impurities form the Raw gas.
The twister doesn't process gas!
The Twister only removes the hydrates ( a solid compound containing water molecules), It would not remove any of the other impurities.
Yes it "may" eliminate the use of methanol if it is/was suitable for this project, but the emissions to air and water would be similar to what is proposed without the twister.
Shell insisted at the EPA oral hearing in Belmullet that the hydrate levels in the Corrib gas was too low for the twister to be employed, S2S had three weeks to counter this argument during the hearings, but didn't even try.
Even at this late stage (refinery built, complete with methanol stills/facilities) S2S still hasn't produced any evidence to show that the twister is suitable for this project.
Almost everyone in the Erris area knows that this project will be completed, regardless of any protests, and as has been seen in recent weeks waiting for A green minister to don his Superman outfit and save the day, is futile.
S2S's Ace card was the on-shore section of pipeline, but if you look out into Sruwaddacon Bay in the coming weeks, you will realise that is where the pipe is going.
And all the consent they need is from the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries Mary Coughlan, (FF).

author by wwpublication date Tue Apr 01, 2008 15:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"If it was done properly/safely and in consultation with the locals?"
An admission, surely, that none of the above applied. Whose side is this guy on?

author by m.m.mccarronpublication date Wed Apr 02, 2008 09:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thank you so much for a wonderful selection and text. The Return of the Pipe was very well-timed with loads of good poster use and thanks to Ciaron of Catholic Worker for being there. Very proud of the quality of the actions- in fact four for the price of one! Managers, Investors, States and the Public.

author by billy idlepublication date Wed Apr 02, 2008 15:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Gogarty doesn't appear to have given the BS he continues to emit. A large number of houses line the narrow straits between Glengad and Rossport, exactly where Shell wants to stick there pipe. These houses are well within the danger zone despite what some with obvious agendas would have us believe. The vast majority of local affected oppose Shells plans, there signatures are their for all to see if one visits the StS trailer. This route also adjoins two public roads including one that leads to the local primary school a short distance away.

Cutting and pasting Shell's views on twister technology hardly counts as a credible arguement and once again you attempt to mis-inform people on what transpired at the EPA oral hearing.

PS - Why do you cling to the lie that the maps you posted here show marine pollution only and not as stated on the authors web-site "human impacts", which includes fishing effort, oil and gas development etc.? As i stated before mislabelling other peoples work is a serious copyright infringment.

author by Gogartypublication date Wed Apr 02, 2008 20:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"PS - Why do you cling to the lie that the maps you posted here show marine pollution only"
I don't think I used the word "only"!
Why do S2S cling to the fantasy that this area is "pristine"?
And "As I stated before mislabelling other peoples work is a serious copyright infringment.".
If Billy had taken the time to follow the links I provided he would have discovered exactly how the scientists arrived at their conclusions.

author by winifred - shell to seapublication date Fri Apr 04, 2008 18:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

to all who defend our environment the continued efforts and commitment never ceases to amaze me in our long standing battle against shells noxious presence in mayo a big thanks to benedictin monk fr anthony for joining and supporting us may many more clergy follow his courageous footsteps in this global issue-protect our precious eco system keep planet healthy for present and future generations may god bless ireland with a new leader who will insist on best practice to preserve the beauty and fragility of erris

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