Irish Activists on humanitarian mission to Gaza trapped by Israelis

by simon Thu Feb 07, 2008 13:46

According to the BBC it is Eygpt that is not letting them out.

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Feb 07, 2008 13:52

Courage and the best of luck Treasa and Naisrin.
Solidarity from all of us in the iawm.

Niall, pls txt them our best wishes and a speedy return

by Mike Novack Thu Feb 07, 2008 14:01

a) They are Egyptians (well one is, the other married to an Egyptian and has Egyptian residency rights)

b) They entered Gaza "illegally" from Egypt. I have "illegal" in quotes but it apparently is how they themselves described what they had done.

c) They are having problems getting back into Egypt because Egyptian authorities aren't letting them cross back over.

What does ISRAEL have to do with that? Is there some part of the story being left out?

by \. Thu Feb 07, 2008 14:24

"Is there some part of the story being left out?""

What is being left out is that TD, the post writer, is incapable of writing in an informative and neutral voice. Therefore, we have to go to other media - not indymedia - to learn what is really happening. Just read the first graph, for example!

"visited on that Golgotha by criminal Israel." whaaa!???

someone knowledgeable of the situation should write a new story and submit it to indymedia to become a feature.

by Sceptic Thu Feb 07, 2008 14:27

“Humanitarian” they may be or think they are but they are also dilettantes out for a bit of melodrama and publicity seeking. It does not matter what the pretext was – the script was written in advance and the Israelis were the bad guys.

by TD - IPSC Thu Feb 07, 2008 16:23

Ok! so I buggered it up and got my wires crossed, as the Irish Times puts it; "Treasa Ní Cheannabháin (56), her daughter Naisrin Elsafty (19) and her Egyptian niece Seham Elhotty (26) were refused entry into Egypt yesterday after they undertook a relief mission on behalf of their charity to Gaza (see Related Link). Hands up! I, erroneously assumed Israel was the villian of the piece.

Egypt, in collusion with Israel, the facilitator of weapons and munitions to Fatah a year ago, in order to attack Hamas, is now back on side, it seems, by childishly denying egress to the trio?

"visited on that Golgotha by criminal Israel." whaaa!???" : if this exact descriptive word employed by Robert Fisk in his powerful; The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East doesn't hold credibility, what word/phrase best sums up the agony/Cavalry of Palestine then?, rose garden, perhaps?.

"criminal Israel" : This is a fair description of a state, a rogue one that indulges in state murder, collective punishment, detention without trial, ethnic cleansing, to mention just a few. If its not, I'm all agitprop ears to hear otherwise.

by Denis MacEoin Thu Feb 07, 2008 19:06

Poor things. Sad too that Palestinian terrorists can't get out either. Sorry, some of them did and have just killed one Israeli and injured 11 others. But it is a disgrace the heroic martyrs were kept waiting so long before setting forth on their act of homicide. I see the trapped activists (I won't call them 'peace activists', because that's the one thing they aren't) have been visiting Palestinian hospitals. That's nice, and to be encouraged, but wouldn't it be equally nice if they spent some time in Israeli hospitals were all the really ill Palestinians are treated. It's odd that injured and sick Palestinians and their families mostly turn up in Israeli hospitals, bearing in mind how much they hate Israel. But it wouldn't occur to our activists to go near Israel, since they are only interested in demonizing Israelis, not sitting down and talking to them or praising them for their extensive humanitarian work. I have to admit that reading this made me feel bad about being Irish. Not that there's much wrong with Ireland, just that I had always thought of us as sensible people who had learned the lessons of terrorism. Or does that not count? We've blown each other up often enough, so now we plunge into the Middle East, pretending we know something about the situation, and encourage the very people who are dead set on killing their next-door neighbours and causing themselves as much harm as possible on the way.

by gav - tnc Thu Feb 07, 2008 20:25

How can you call the palestinians terrorists - they have been forced into a hopeless situation by a zionist obsession, while the rest of the world sits back and does nothing. Any act of violence carried out by a palestinian is a reaction to years of humiliation, abuse and sanctions. Any human from any other country would do the same.

Just as someone walks onto a bus strapped with explosives, killing themselves and all the passengers seems barbaric, political sanctions and starving people of food and medi-care is equally barbaric, but unfortunatly this pathethic act doesn't grab the news headlines!

Any one that highlights the palestinian deserves praise. - coinngh suas leis an dea-obair!

"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and War is the terrorism of the rich."

by Babs Thu Feb 07, 2008 23:54

Gav , Zionism is and was the national liberation Movement of the Jewish People

It has existed for 2000 years ever since the Romans destroyed the Jewish homeland

Jew have prayed 3 times a day every day for 2000 years for the restoration of their nation
[work out the maths of that ]

If that is an obsession -a love for a Homeland , what is wrong with that ?

Funny thing though the Jews never became permanent refugees and never asked the world to keep them for ever .
Jews actually died and their num bers decreased over the years -there were only 16 million when the Germans started their systemaic murders so over 1/3 of the world s Jews were murdered in the Holocaust
.--that IS strange as the 500,000 Arabs displaced in 1948 due to a war they brought on themselves never die so they still get UN handouts paid for by you and me .

They grow and grow in numbers and the Arab countries keep them in penury .

However in Gaza they seem to have loads of Mercs and Villas and look well fed when they take to the steets .
Have you ever seen pictures of the starving victims iof the Germans in WW2 -they could hardly walk ,never mind make a video and go off and murder people with a suicide bomb .

Get Real , Gav -never let your in depth prejudices get in the way of the facts !

by Radio Head Tonight - No Fri Feb 08, 2008 01:42

I heard this interview with this woman on the Matt Cooper Radio show talking from the Gaza -Rafah Crossing to Egypt. Amidst the Bedlam of screaming and shouting and calling out of people all around she gave a ten minute talk to Irish radio Today FM.
She said about the Palestinian people in her very words being the most peaceful, quietest people most hospitable people to meet. She came to help them, she says.

She Said This is all Israel’s fault That the trapped people can not get any help to their families in Gaza.
This is what she said, at the Gaza Rafah Crossing tonight and a thousands of people in Ireland will tell you too that she said exactly that.

Now I read “T.D.” of the IPSC speaking in Solidarity with the Palestinian people, I am to suppose by the letters that follow the Name he has solidarity with Palestinian peopls :

"Hands up! I, erroneously assumed Israel was the villian of the piece."

TD ISPC, are you saying that this woman does not know who has trapped her in Gaza?
Are you claiming that she is wrong, it is the Egypt side who denies her the passage to her home in Egypt . I presumed you are accepting this. You are right, she is wrong.

Is this what you are saying is the ISPC decided on this womans interview tonight at Gaza Rafah crossing ? ISPC is decided that She is wrong, she is trapped by her own Egypt government in the Gaza strip and not by Israeli sieges or blockades.
The contradiction is so very difficult to ignore if that is your case between the woman at the Gaza Egypt Border and the ISPC Solidairty decision.

by babs indeed Fri Feb 08, 2008 09:32

Babs

Zionism has not been around for 2000 years, Regardless of your own beleifs Zionism as a political movement was founded in the late 19th century. There was until then and there continues to be strongly held beleifs within conservative Judaism that Jews are forbidden by God to have a state.

Zionsim was until 1991 classed as a racsit idiology by the UN and only declassified when israel refused to enter the Madrid peace talk until it was declassified as racist.

People everywhere are fully entitled to have their own political views but dont paint false pictures of this.

Your figures are also wrong, in 1948 750,000 Palestinians were evicted from their lands, a fact acknowledged by Israel.

No one denies the tragic history of the Jewish people but do not confuse Jwiesh traditions with Zionism.

How then do you explain anti-Zionist Jews living in Israel?

by Sceptic Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:38

"Zionsim was until 1991 classed as a racsit idiology by the UN "

It wasn't. There was a motion passed as a result of a head count vote in the General Assembly 1974. It passed with an alliance of communist block, Arab and third world states. It had no importance except to demean the forum that passed it and make the Assembly look irrepressible. For it to be invoked here as a debating point is a sign of prejudice.

by Eggball Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:57

Presumably, Sceptic thinks opinions from eastern Europe, Arab states and Third World countries don't count, which rather reinforces their point.

On the other hand, isn't it funny the way Israel's apologists DO count the UN article upon which Israel likes to base its legal existence, since that was also an address of the General Assembly? Well, at least the parts of it which suit their stripe. Naturally, we can dispense with the bit about the rights of the indigenous inhabitants, can't we?

by TD Fri Feb 08, 2008 14:39

Now that the three have been allowed to exit Gaza, now is not the time for finger-wagging but to acknowledge the chutzpah of these feisty women in entering Gaza and their humanitarian concerns for a people under vicious Israeli siege, however, Minister for Foreign Affairs, Dermot Ahern, hypocritically indulges as he's of the view that Ms Ní Cheannabháin bears "personal responsibility" for her plight" .

Chutzpah? : According to yesterday's Irish Independent : The three women had crossed from Egypt to Gaza last Thursday. Having been refused entry initially at the Egyptian side of Rafah, they hired a taxi driver to take them across the border illegally. Wearing niquabs -- full length black robes with just a slit for their eyes -- the women pretended to be the family of the taxi driver as they made their way through the border. They carried suitcases containing the €7,700 collected by the Galway-Palestinian Children's Fund. In Gaza, they met up with contacts and met a number of ministers from the Hamas government. They spent the rest of their time visiting hospitals and orphanages and distributing the money". (see link)

Hypocritical? : Ireland along with the EU and US colludes with rogue state Israel in the pauperization and destruction of Palestine in the witholding of aid and turning a blind eye to part two of the Euromed ageeement which states that Israel must comply with international and humanitarian law for the agreement to be operative.

Apologies, once again for garbling the original posting; Egypt, of course, was responsible for denying an exit to the three and not Israel.

Treasa Ní Cheannabháin (56) and her daughter, Naisrin Elsafty (19), waiting to cross back into Egypt yesterday (photo/caption: The Irish Times)

by anon Fri Feb 08, 2008 14:52

can you tell me please what source you have to say that eygpt is in collusion with isreal in this situation.i think you need to put your hands up again

by Sceptic Fri Feb 08, 2008 16:38

Eggball it depends on your criteria of the validity of opinion. The 1974 resolution was principally the work of non-democratic regimes. So it was the opinion of the various communist party cliques, various Baathist regimes and people like Idi Amin which were being polled. Had the people of Poland for example been able to choose their own Government they would not have supported a prejudicial policy like that.
In the 1970s and 1980s the Assembly was by-passed and made irrelevant by its becoming an anti western and anti Israeli playground for despots of various types. That was not the case in the early days of the 1940s. Policy formation had to shift to the Security Council as a result. Otherwise policy would effectively be made in the Kremlin with the role of the west being that of paymaster for the entire anti western circus. Even very well disposed liberal figures like the US Ambassador and former Democrat senator Pat Moynahan became very disenchanted with it. The Assembly can act as a sort of Parliament of world opinion but it very seldom does. Usually it acts as a plaything of regimes like that of Sudan for example.

by Radio Head Fri Feb 08, 2008 21:29

TD ISPC

You seem to be treating what is heppening at the border on a case by case basis. "Egypt is responsible for not letting this one through but Israel is responsible for not letting those ones through."

The siege of Gaza is not a case by case siege. It is a blanket of blockade on the entire strip. The purpose of it is to serve the Israeli punishment against the People for choosing Hamas to lead. Egypt is diplomatically and economically bound to obey the Israeli and American handlers. They cannot let this border function normally without taking the complete melting down of it's dependence on the Israeli American alliance. If it could be allowed to function then it would be the case that all people would come and go with their papers only to show to the border guards on the Egypt and Palestinian side.
TD ISPC, it is to the shame of the Egypt side that they do the will of those who are opposed to the Arab brothers and sisters in Gaza and that occasionally it is seen that they make a mistake with trapping a Westerner in there too.
But It is the blame that goes to the siegemakers who impose this terrible deed against a citizen population to bring a political outcome, or terrorism, should I simply put it , as that is the official definition of terrorism.
I dont think you are right to make any difference between who gets through the Siege as being one fault or the other. It is all the fault of the siege and those who will not lift it , No discrimination between any cases needed.

by TD Sun Feb 10, 2008 14:23

Galway-Palestinian Solidarity Campaign activist and humanitarian,Treasa Ni Cheannabhain, will continue to be held until the Gaza border re-opens to international traffic in a few days or possibly a week's time. Last night , speaking to RTÉ News, she said once that happens, the Egyptian authorities have told her she can go the border, present her passport to be stamped and then gain legal entry into Egypt. Treasa also confirmed that she would not be appearing before a military court despite her initial fears. It's to be welcomed that the Egyptians should only make her, in infantile fashion, jump through a few circus hoops rather than break her legs as Egypt's Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit threatened, a few days ago, to do to Palestinians crossing from Gaza into Egypt.

Babs/Mike Novak : Can't understand the jesuitical nit-picking, in the virulent form that the world now knows Zionism, it began in the late 1800’s as a nationalist movement among European Jews who hoped to escape from centuries of persecution, pogroms and expulsions in Europe. At the Basel Conference, in 1897, Zionists decided to create a Jewish national state in Palestine. Since Jews constituted a small minority in Palestine, implanting a Jewish majority state would by definition require the displacement of the non-Jewish majority population. Even though a Jewish delegation to Palestine from Vienna reported back that “the bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man,” the Zionist movement preferred to claim that “Palestine was a land without a people for a people without a land.” This slogan was openly racist in denying the significance, rights, or even the existence of the Palestinian people. As both of you may be aware, many Jews reject Israel and Zionism; one group, for instance, Neturei Karta (Jews United Against Zionism) states that “Zionism has spent the past century strategically dispossessing the Palestinian people. It has ignored their just claims and subjected them to persecution, torture and death. Torah Jews the world over are shocked and pained at this short-lived dogma of irreligiosity and cruelty. Thousands of Torah scholars and saints have condemned this movement from its inception. The so called “State of Israel” stands rejected on religious grounds by the Torah. Its monstrous insensitivity to the laws of basic decency and fairness appall all men be they Jewish or not.”

* “It is not as though there was a Palestinian people… and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them, they did not exist” (Golda Meir, 1969).

* "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." (Founding PM, David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, addressing the Israeli General Staff).

* “We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border … both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly” (Theodore Herzl, 1895)

* "[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs.” (Israeli PM, Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset)

* “[The Palestinians are...] Cockroaches in a glass jar” (Rafael Eytan, Israeli Chief of Staff)

Sceptic : In 1975, the United Nations General Assembly passed resolution 3379 which “determined that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.” The resolution was revoked 16 years later, after heavy U.S. blackmailing pressure.

In regard to your jibe at the "anti western circus" (the UN General Assembly). In June and August 1980, The UN Security Council declared Israel’s annexation of Jerusalem ‘null and void’ under international law. In December 1981, the UN Security Council declared Israel’s annexation of the Syrian Golan Heights ‘null and void’ under international law. On 9 August 1990, the UN Security Council declared Iraq’s annexation of Kuwait ‘null and void’ under international law. For the third declaration – but not for the first two - the West would insist on the strict application of ‘international law,’ perish the thought that Islam and communities worldwide entertain the notion that there is one 'rule of hypocrisy for the Israelis, and quite a different one for non-Israelis and that the UN Security Council is now the clawless cat's paw and facilitator of US imperial policy which rubber stamped the US/UK led sanctions against Iraq prior to the 2003 attack and which were instrumental, according to the UNICEF, for the deaths of over a half-a-million Iraqi children ("a price worth paying," according to Madeline Albright, Clinton's US Secretary of State).

Egypt's Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit

by Mary Kelly Sun Feb 10, 2008 19:53

to Treasa, Naisrin,and family. Thanks for stepping outside of the safety of Galway to bring solidarity to the tormented and suffering Palestinians in Gaza.

by Alan Mon Feb 11, 2008 17:37

On link, there is an Audio Slideshow by Guardian newpaper reporter, Peter Beaumont, on the Gaza breakout.

by Mr. Man Tue Feb 12, 2008 18:23

I agree that Naisrin and Treasa should be applauded for their humanitarian effort. However, I am perplexed why the money had to go through Hamas? Helping to save lives is great but for me there is too much moral abiguity here. No matter how people try to revise what terrorism and ethnic cleansing means, Hamas is bad news. To support a faction that has a principal aim of eradication of a religious group, which does so by targeting civilians almost exlusively, in my eyes is wrong. I am sure they were very trustworthy, nice people that they dealt with etc. but surely the funds could be channeled through a neutral party?

@gac/babs indeed - Zionism is multi-faceted. Is HAS existed for thousands of years. To claim otherwise would require the most closed minded, brief and incomplete research ever. Zionism as a political movement is more recent.
Zionism is a racist ideology depending on your viewpoint. If you view Jewish people as a race, then it is racist. If you view it as a religion, then it is dicriminatory. But this is much like thinking as heaven for christians. Pretty much every religion has some OMG discrimination in it.

"How then do you explain anti-Zionist Jews living in Israel?" . I do not understand what your point is. Please elaborate.

"There was until then and there continues to be strongly held beleifs within conservative Judaism that Jews are forbidden by God to have a state" - Yes, i'm sure there is. There are many views. There is no Jewish religion central authority. I really hope you read a good book before you make comments along these lines. This viewpoint, while not being of the POPULAR CONSENSUS of zionism, is not even the POPULAR CONSENSUS of anti zionism. The correct popular (unpopular) view is the "State of Israel” as it stands now and its timing of conception is rejected on religious grounds by the Torah, not that the state of Israel should never exist. Not that it was forbidden by god. To use viewpoints such as these argumentatively is the equivalent of arguing that Ireland wants to seperate from the EU and sail to Jamaica to chill out because some stoner in Cavan thinks it would be funny.

I echo others on this forum in thinking that more people need to start referencing statements that they make.

Oh, and whatever differences in viewpoint we may have, at least we aren't these guys - http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Israel

I did have a good laugh though!!

by redjade Tue Feb 12, 2008 20:35

Palestinians Ask U.S. To Intervene in Suits Over Terrorist Attacks
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...world

The State Department is considering supporting the Palestinian Authority in its quest to avoid paying hundreds of millions of dollars in judgments won by American victims of Palestinian terrorist attacks in Israel, according to Palestinian officials and defense lawyers involved in the cases.

U.S. officials insist that no decision has been made regarding the complex litigation, which could force the Bush administration to choose between supporting compensation for victims of terrorism and bolstering the Palestinian government as the United States presses for a breakthrough in Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.

[....]

"There has been a rethinking in the State Department that I wholeheartedly welcome," said Afif Safieh, head of mission in Washington for the Palestine Liberation Organization. He said the lawsuits were "politically and ideologically motivated to drive the Palestinian Authority into bankruptcy."

Victims, who will meet with top State and Justice Department officials tomorrow, said that a U.S. intervention with the courts would make a mockery of the administration's fight against terrorism.

more at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...world

by john - none Wed Feb 13, 2008 01:06

" Testimony in Israeli courts has connected senior Palestinian leaders -- such as the late Yasser Arafat -- to specific terrorist attacks involved in the lawsuits"

Imagine if Guatemalans were to start chasing the US for Reagans terrorist deeds. Imagine if people in places like Vietnam or Iraq started looking at the liability of America for massacres like Mai Lai. Atrocities in Iraq. torture in Abu Ghraib, Guantanemo etc..
The US would be gone in a week.

Hmmm.....

by Joseph Loughnane - NUIG Wed Feb 13, 2008 01:15

Fair play to Treasa and her daughter, they did their best to help whoever they could. Concerning Israel, just beause you suffer mass murder and racism at the hands of a maniacal regime bent on your race's destruction, that does not give you the right to do the exact same to a group of people who are helpless to fight back against you, much like ye were when you had Hitler on your backs. This is what the Israeli ambassador to Ireland said when he came to NUIG, "the Palestinians are stealing our water", ffs, you bastards are stealing their land and their lives, all 4000 of them.

by Babs Wed Feb 13, 2008 22:05

Joseph you are so young and impressionable

- what the Arabs NOW want they could have had and more ,anytime from the

1920s onwards --lousy corrupt leaders took them up a blind ally - Hitlers friend Mufti Husseeini

and Arafart in particular --even as late as 2000 they could have learnt from our own

Gerry Adams and Martin Mc G that there is a time to give up fighting and come in from the cold .

Arafart could have done that in Camp David and or Taba in 2000/2001 instead of re starting the

useless Intifada --by now there would have been an Arab functioning State with open borders

and in time the Arabs would PEACEFULLY have won the battle of the bedroom

in Israel / Palestine just as in the North the Proddies will be overtaken in a generation or two .

Joseph do try to think out side the box and without your built in prejudices

obscuring your obvious intellect

by Joseph - NUIG Thu Feb 14, 2008 00:33

Babs, I don't think seeing first hand, the dead bodies of young Palestinian kids can be classed as merely impressionable? I mean is there a need for you to assume I'm young and then write in a condescending manner? So many men, Ariel Sharon,Ehud Barak are lauded as champions in their homeland and for what, for the massacre of innocent people, all being Palestinian. When the West want a region to be reliant open them they injure a leg so they have to lean on the West for support, they did this to Africa and South Asia and for the Middle East they played their best card, they picked a spot in the centre of Arab territory to put Israel, therefore ensuring non-stop violence, whereby the only ones who can clean up the mess are the West, but will they do it? No. Will they do it if Mr. Arafat had agreed to their solution, maybe, just as long as their shoulder is still propping up the region, maybe you should look through the smoke that the fat cats in the West blow into your eyes and see for yourself that there will never be a solution, only when the West decides.

by Babs Thu Feb 14, 2008 22:24

Joseph muddled thinking again -and NOT factual . It is easy to throw out words like massacres etc but it does not help if you do not face the facts .
No one people has the title deeds to martyrdom .
The Arabs started a war on 30 Nov 1947 the day after the UN vote on Palestine being divided into Arab and Jewish states. That is the nub of the problem . They have NOT stopped that war yet .

If you had lived thorugh the 1970 s 1980s 1900s and up to the present you will have seen the mangled bodies of Israelis in countless bus bombings before the Arabs perfected the suicide bombing martyrdom technique of today . Thank heavnes that Security Fence has resulted in only TWO bombers being successful in the past 14 months -many other efforts were made .
And what has gone on since the Israelis took they own peopl eout of Gaza in 2005 ? Constant rocket attacks each day on Israel it self . Yes any dead body is a calamity but .no one people has the sole right to martyrdom . The Arabs demand to have the right to live anywhere and everywhere where they want Israel West Bank ,Ireland , Pagan UK , dreaded satanic USA etc etc but do NOt want Jews to live in the West Bank, Gaza Jordan , or Saudi , etc etc

Get REAL - but dont get Is REAL

by sylvia - none Wed Feb 27, 2008 16:46 sylvia_m at hotmail dot co dot uk UK

Oh dear Babs, so the Israeli's should be lionized for pulling their people out of Gaza in 2005?
Almost as soon as the last man had left the territory, the Israelis began low flying "exercises"
right across Gaza. Sometimes so low AND breaking the sound barrier that pregnant Palestinian
women sponaneously miscarried. Children of course were petrified. This, together with the complete lockdown of the Gaza
territory, which meant - amonst other severe privations - it had no wood with which to construct
coffins and the "targeted" asassinations of senior Hamas leaders - which unfortunately just
happened to include women and children on many occaisions.
The last 60 years have been Hell on earth for the Palestinian people primarily due to the actions
of the Israelis.
I am 67 and have watched this unfolding story every day of my adult life.