Jean Marie Le Pen to visit UCD

by Free Speech For The Dumb Thu Jan 17, 2008 14:33

I am a student in UCD and I'm looking forward to an interesting evening at UCD.

Jean Marie Le Pen is odious but I believe the best way to defeat right wing extremists (and left wing extremists) is to allow people to hear what the ludicrous thing they have to say and to respond in the only way rational people can - by laughing him out of the lecture hall.

I have no doubt that a bunch of extremists will turn up uninvited waving banners with hammers and sickles and drowning out any chance that well adjusted sane people can enjoy an intellectual discussion.

The restrictions which prevented Fred Phelps from coming to UCD are equally ridiculous.

Fred Phelps like Jean Marie Le Pen is a comically stupid ignorant piece of slime but however offensive and abominable a person is they have a right to be heard.

by Tom Sean Thu Jan 17, 2008 15:35

Not gonna happen i. will be baffled if he gets anywhere near a stage. Prepare to be shocked liberal!

by no Thu Jan 17, 2008 16:59

Fred Phelps was never gonna come it was just publicity stunt like this

by Free Speech For The Dumb Thu Jan 17, 2008 17:07

what are you going to do?

by No platform Thu Jan 17, 2008 17:46

Yup, you do seem pretty dumb. A classic example of the vanity of self-styled 'liberals' - they really like to believe that Le Pen will be sent packing because a few posh students make 'killer' points against him in a debating theatre. Let's be honest - for you the issue is not Le Pen's right to speak, but your right to hear him. What happens as a result is no concern of yours. Fascists always use these opportunities for recruitment and organisation so they can reach a critical mass and go out bashing the usual targets - foreigners, blacks, gays, whoever it might be. You don't have to worry about that so instead you spend your time denouncing the people who organise to challenge fascism and racism

by Joe Thu Jan 17, 2008 17:47

It's back to the same old Fascist extremism again. The fanatical Left will not allow anyone they don't agree with to speak. What's new?

I also doubt Le Pen will be allowed speak and that will be a victory for who? Not for the freedom to speak.

by Law Soc Thu Jan 17, 2008 18:40

It really is the wrong time of year to be cultivating notoriety in order to get laid- in my day
the law dudes used just join drama to get women- now they want to be seen as big
and bad and unafraid of pinkos- o well.
Has anyone contacted the Law Soc?
checked out who is chairing?
asked them if self-publicity is more important than providing substantial debate?
is the chair affiliated to a political party and if so-which one?
style over substance is a PD failing and it looks good on the racist CV to provoke
through ignorance.
Free speech my right eye- they will be organising 'love ulster' marches next...

by Another Liberal Fri Jan 18, 2008 00:04

...but he does not have the right to a platform. We all know what his views are and they should be opposed, on the streets, around the campus and in the theatre. Being a university student, the reprehensible being who invited Le Pen to speak here has no excuse of naivety and should be held accountable for his or her actions. This man has a very dangerous agendum which led to horrors in Europe seventy years ago. Remember that Europe was the home of the Enlightenment and the most developed part of the world at this time. Whoever tendered this invitation to Le Pen should retract it publicly, perform some public atonement (maybe a month's voluntary work with asylum seekers) and vow not to play with fire again.

by Free Speech For The Dumb Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:46

The UCD library has copies of Mein Kampf.
Easons and Waterstones and Hodges Figgis sell copies of Hitler's book.
You can read facist polemics and watch nazi videos on the internet.
Why don't you organise a campaign of book burnings and computer destruction?

by Sartre's Pipe - Existentialism and Socialism Fri Jan 18, 2008 15:36

"The UCD library has copies of Mein Kampf.
Easons and Waterstones and Hodges Figgis sell copies of Hitler's book."

The difference is there is no one hanging around the politics section in H/F waiting to recruit anyone who picks up a copy of MK.

by not angry Sat Jan 19, 2008 01:06

I'm just not going to get worked up about Le Pen's invite to address the Law Soc. I'm a bit cynical and guess that some people wanted him to come to Ireland and speak against the Lisbon Treaty so that opposition to it could then be tarred with his racist brush by the proponents of the treaty.

It's a bit like critics of modern art being tarred with a Nazi brush because in the 1930s the Nazis organised an exhibition in Berlin of what they called "entartete Kunst" (de-artified art). This kind of logic is as flawed as saying that vegetarians are prone to Nazism because Hitler was a vegetarian. George Bernard Shaw was vegetarian too, so was Mahatma Gandhi.

Left opponents of Le Pen's visit are playing into the hands of the organisers who calculated on the publicity. They should conserve their energy for a nationwide leaflet campaign on the treaty. This referendum is best fought at voters' doorsteps.

by ex IUS Sat Jan 19, 2008 09:34

You have a right to picket the buffoon Le Pen because you have a right to freely express your views. You don't have a right to disrupt the proceedings because Le Pen has a similar a right to express his. The irony is that many of the very small number of people who would disrupt rather than protest hold exactly the same views on the European issue as le Pen.

Better still, if you don't like Le Pen and what he or any other group stands for, just ignore him. If you do you will be denying him the publicity which he and his left-wing clones crave. After all he has nothing else, his vote (along with that of the extreme left) vrtually collapsed in the recent French elections.

I know of no one who is less likely to have an influence on the Irish electorate than Le Pen. It would be a huge pity if some left-wing juveniles caused a rumpus which gave publicity to an otherwise irrelevant event which would otherwise pass almost unnoticed.

Best still, if you object to the creation of a European superstate, further encroachment on our freedoms by unelected eurocrats, and the further expansion of the EU, just go quietly into the polling booth and vote 'no' That is the only protest that counts.

by again Sat Jan 19, 2008 15:28

Should withdraw the invite- has UCD gone so bad now that facists blowing hot air
on National Chauvinism comprises debate.

I Blame the corporates who sponsor the schools and the chair of the Law Soc
who did not make Oxford or Irving, and has to garner negative and hollow publicity
somehow- what a sad little crew- it was once a wonderful society-

by ucd student Sun Jan 20, 2008 18:03

I heard the law society are having a debate to see if they should allow le pen to come or not and let the students vote on it. Seems fair to let the student body decide if they want to hear him or not.

by anti-fascist Mon Jan 21, 2008 13:37

If the students are allowed to decide then Le Pen might well be allowed to speak and impressionable people might be taken in by his extremist views. It is up to us to prevent that from happening.

by w. Mon Jan 21, 2008 15:10

The anti-fascist side shouldnt get too rabid or moralistic about this, we're not trying to save some students from themselves. It is a matter of principle that fascists should not be provided with a platform to spread their ideas of course, but this event should be stopped because it is part of a process of recognising and normalising the far-right across europe rather than to spare the poor students ears.

The oxford union was shut down by a few hundred militants recently, Le Pen ought to be afforded the same welcome.

by Forphuckssake Mon Jan 21, 2008 15:26

If the students are allowed to decide then Le Pen might well be allowed to speak and impressionable people might be taken in by his extremist views. It is up to us to prevent that from happening.

let's rephrase that statement

If the students are allowed to decide then ANTI-FASCISTS might well be allowed to speak and impressionable people might be taken in by their extremist views. It is up to us to prevent that from happening.

OR

If the students are allowed to decide then CHOMSKY might well be allowed to speak and impressionable people might be taken in by his extremist views. It is up to us to prevent that from happening.

OR

If the students are allowed to decide then William Rodriguez might well be allowed to speak and impressionable people might be taken in by his extremist views. It is up to us to prevent that from happening.

OR

If the students are allowed to decide then Ed Horgan might well be allowed to speak and impressionable people might be taken in by his extremist views. It is up to us to prevent that from happening

Would you ever take a good LONG look in the mirror, try to see if the person looking back at you is the person you claim to against. Eventually all extremists come to resemble those the claim to be against, it seems.

Let me know when you decide to start burning books you disagree with. I need a good laugh

Protest all you want, but preventing others from speaking IS Fascist

by reality Mon Jan 21, 2008 15:47

This guy is not Justin Barrett he goes around with about 20 bodyguards who are all ex-French foreign legion paratroopers, I think AFA are in for a big shock.

by Choirboy Mon Jan 21, 2008 16:00

The rugger bugger antifascists are a pain in the butt. Why don't they do something melodic like applying to sing in the youthful Ballymun Gospel Choir mentioned on another thread?

by ex IUS Mon Jan 21, 2008 19:08

Le Pen isn't a "fascist" in the strict sense of having a coherent political philosophy - even within the loose embrace of authoritarian syndicatilism that is referred to as fascism. Nor is it his aim, insofar as I am aware, to overthrow the institutions of France.

Le Pen is an old-fashioned racist nationalist. Nothing more. He is also a buffoon and a spent force. He is no more threat to the institutions of France (or anywhere else) than the idiots of the extreme left who perversely need him as a pretext for their own (self-imagined) relevance. The happy truth is that both the FN and the juveniles who would provide Le Pen with the oxygen of publicity by trying to disrupt his little show have already been consigned to the dustbin of history by the electorate. Leave them there.

The very idea that Le Pen should be censored because he might 'mislead' some poor souls is tosh. The proof of the pudding is that he lost his metaphorical deposit in the recent elections, as did the rag-bag of Trots and Commies on the other extreme. Ditto here. Democratic electorates are a canny lot. They saw the form of the whole damn lot and quietly made up their collective minds accordingly.

Make the only protest that matters. Go to the ballot box and quietly vote "no", and leave "Le Buffoon" slink back to France unnoticed.

by lessonslearned Tue Jan 22, 2008 15:47

in first place I do agree with w's comment: it is not about saving stupid students.
Not to give a platform to fascists is nothing else than mere crime prevention!
There can be no serious doubt that FN and Le Pen are part of a "modernized" european right-wing movement. This is in fact not only "old-school" anti-immigrant and racist it is in fact the latest attempt of facism. You will find this scum throughout whole of Europe and they are connected and they are to be fought everywhere and anytime.

So again the parole must be: no pasaran!

by observer Tue Jan 22, 2008 16:19

You are living in a 1930s time warp (and a mytholgised one at that given that the only existing socialist state at the time the USSR enjoyed far from hostile relations with Hitler and Mussolini).

Apart from that you are being sucked into an obvious ploy by the Europhiles to portray the No campaign as a bunch of ultra right (le Pen) and ultra Left (SWP) extremists.

The No constituency was a majority in Nice I and can be again but not if the agenda is let be set by the REAL right (ie the Irish Times/FF/De Rossa and all the other Europhiles) and its ultra leftist glove puppets.

by martin Tue Jan 22, 2008 16:40

there was an old exprsession n the 1930s - no free speech for fascists.
this is still relevant. the law society should be ashamed of themseves. martin

by Democrat Tue Jan 22, 2008 17:32

The Irish Times and the rest of the EU Empire loyalists must be very pleased with the decision of the UCD Law society to invite Le Pen to Ireland. They started the whole campaign to invite him over with the sole purpose of seeking to promote a McCarthite smear campaign against the No campaign. It never would have happened if Gageby was still the editor. It is just an indication of how a once great paper has been reduced to a right wing imperialist rag.
The reality is the French and the Dutch people have already voted No to the EU Constitution, and all that has happened is that it has been renamed the Lisbon treaty to prevent people from voting again. It is the advocates of the treaty who are the real people who are opposed to democracy. With all their money and with the support of the corporate media they could win it. But if they do, the they are creating an Empire built on sand that will wash away as the economic crisis deepens. It is their policies and values that then give rise the the likes of Le Pen. The best way of rejecting Le Pen and his politics is to vote No. It will force the EU elite to come back to the people and agree a Europe based on the Laken Declaration.

by ex IUS Tue Jan 22, 2008 19:05

I'm for free speach for all Trots, fascists, commies, and racists. There is no evidence, given the results of recent elections in France and Ireland, that allowing them spout their nonsense has any effect whatsoever on the electorate other than convince it not to vote for any of them.

In fact, the principle of free-speech for everyone has been throughly vindicated by the empirical outcomes.

The attempted use of the 1930s as an analogy for the present is rubbish. What the early decades of the last century show is something else entirely than what the extreme left likes to imply. Those years taught us that if democrats compromse their principles by allying with marxists or fascists the weeds of the extreme left and right will colonize the moral void vacated by democracy. Democrats cannot ally with either marxist or fascist. If they do they risk acting as midwife to a Lenin or Hitler. There is no common ground.

Disrupting Le Pen will only give him the oxygen of publicity. The only act which will effect the outcome of the referendum is what you do quietly and anonymously in the ballot-box.

Vote no to prevent the EU becoming a socialist super-state hell-hole run by statist eurocrats.

by Free Speech For The Dumb Thu Jan 24, 2008 14:57

Looking forward to an eventful evening?
Jean Marie Le Pen has been invited to UCD to speak to the Law Society in relation to the upcoming Lisbon Treaty

Monsieur Le Pen is a highly controversial figure who arouses hot emotions.

The Law Society are aware that various individuals and groups are aghast that at the proposed visit.

Therefore in the interests of fairness a debate will be held tonight in the Arts Block where it will be debated whether he should be made welcome or not.
I love an open debate as no doubt all who attend do too.

I always believe that a mature and open exchange of views is the bedrock of democracy.

All are welcome to voice their opinion on Monsieur Le Pen.

Should be fun!

Do come along!

:-)

by Withdraw the invite Thu Jan 24, 2008 15:06

If you desire debate then get someone who can debate and not hide behind his image,
his political history and his right-wing tendencies.

Lisbon is too serious an issue to be relegated to a pantomine of utter crap.
There are political and fiscal issues involved in Lisbon , that directly effect the next generation
of Kids. Le Pen is out of context and farty.

by no Thu Jan 24, 2008 15:16

There is no demand for him to come as you have tried to say, if he does come he should be invited by a group of his allies campaigning for a no vote and not by publicity seeking students. I see no invite by such a group therefore he should not come.

by . Thu Jan 24, 2008 15:25

"Should be fun!"

THERE IS NOTHING FUN ABOUT FASCISM YOU INSENSITIVE MAN

by Anti-Treaty Irregular Thu Jan 24, 2008 15:26

I oppose the Lisbon Treaty because I believe it is a slippery slope that undermines our national independence and weakens our democracy. I have no time for a buffoon like Monsieur Le Pen or his mirror image ultra left crackpots here in Ireland.
However UCD Law Soc are welcome to invite who they like.I have no desire to be within sniffing distance of a piece of slime like Monsieur Le Pen so I will not attend any function he is speaking at should he come to Ireland.
Hopefully he has the good sense to stay away.

If you are like me and you despise him and everything he stands for then simply ignore him.

The Irish people are not fools.
If they are addressed presented with sound reasoned arguments they will no doubt be convinced as I am of the uselessness of the Lisbon Treaty.

UCD Law Soc are welcome to do what they like.

It doesn't phase me in the slightest.

by ex IUS Thu Jan 24, 2008 17:42

By and By.

There is nothing funny about left-wing extremism either.

In the last century the entire bunch of commies, fascists, trots, nazis, maoists, and falangists amassed between them a body count of possibly 100 million. Which of the lot was the worst is a toss-up, and a rather academic question.

So, if we are to be really really SENSITIVE (and consistent) we should deny free-speech to the entire lot.

However, I believe that we would be even more consistent (and consistent with our belief in the principles of liberal democracy - the political creed of the vast majority of Europeans) if we give the entire ugly bunch every opportunity to condemn themselves out of their own mouths.

In fact, we liberal democrats (and I am sure that 'by', being a SENSITIVE person wishes to be counted among those of the LD persuasion) should apply two golden principles:

1. We should defend the right of M. Le Pen to speak freely without fear of intimidation or violence, and
2. We should defend the right of those who oppose him, (including those from the equally odious extreme left) to peacefully express their opposition to his views and to the decision of the UCDLS to provide him with a platform.

I will be quietly going to the polling booth where I shall quietly vote 'No'. If enough of you join me, we will carry the day.

Disrupting Le Pen will do absolutely nothing to defeat this referendum. It will only give him publicity.

by class rep Tue Jan 29, 2008 16:04

Thursday nights LawSoc debate saw a large majority in favour of Le Pen speaking on the Lisbon treaty

last night was embarassing as the Union Council in UCD defeated a motion to stop Le Pen coming to UCD, proposed by Mary O'Flynn and seconded by Dan O'Neill . Ciaran Weafer spoke on the motion also. There was a huge vote against the motion which then to a walkout by O'Flynn, Cogavin and Weafer, how they must despair at the youth of UCDSU.

The left is dead and going to get worse in UCD looking at the candidates for Sabbat, 2 labour party members who are ashamed of the word socialist are going forward along with the usual KBC careerist hacks.

by observer Tue Jan 29, 2008 17:15

You will be aware of course that Le Pen has said that he is not coming here anyway! Does not want to be used by the Europhile right and "left" to attack the No campaign. All we need now is for similar modesty on the part of the ultra leftists who are setting up No front groups to promote their various sects.

by Class wept Tue Jan 29, 2008 17:50

The Left may be dead but I'm sure everyone will be glad to see that Pierce Farrell lives, judging by the post above the last one - quaint that he thinks nobody will know who it is if he doesn't post under his real name with his habitual unpleasant little barbs. Yet again the question must be asked - who has ever supported anything you've done, Pierce? Any of your grand proposals been taken up by the masses? What's that you say, no? How odd!

by class rep Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:35

indeed the left is dead in UCD..................no progressive candidates, no student activism

President
The front runner is a guy who hates politics and the other guy is a FFer who wanted to impose health fees

Dep President
Labour lite candidate Dan O'Neill or mark farrelly or hackette O'Connor

Education
another soft labour Geraghty or usi eastern area (KBCer) Lynam.......ooh the choices

Welfare
you have the culchie gah candidate, the YFGer/debating, the B&Ler or the Green. hope no women have issues in the coming year

Ents
who cares but a KBCer looking to extend the B&L franchise for another year of money making