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Indymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.
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news report
Wednesday July 24, 2002 14:53
by Pat C
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Comments (22 of 22)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22If you actually do believe in a better world for all, would it not be a good idea not to refer to people on the other side as scum. No matter how much you may resent their opinions, these people are not Ariel Sharon.
Does that make me a Zionist?
Does that mean I should also be eligible for 'Death'?
Well done, IMC_ie moderation - this certainly sounds like one case where intervention was necessary!
Schalom, BP
My comments were in response to yet more zionist spam. In the body of my comment I pointed out that the "IDF" had just murdered civilians.
Why did you remove my comments yet leave on comments which supported the Israeli murder of children?
Your censorship is blatantly unjustified and pro zionist.
I think it is reasonable to refer to zionists as scum. They want to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians.
I do not support suicide bombings but I do believe that any adult settler in the occupied territories is a legitimate target. Remember they are all armed.
This is my opinion. If you do not like it & wish to delete it then theres a lot of zionist stuff you should also remove.
You still haven't said why my comments were removed yet this site is full of racist pro-zionist nonsense.
It is little wonder that the pro-Zionists who spend their time cluttering up this and many other sites with their propaganda are so active, seeing as every newspaper today has pictures of a month old baby murdered in the Israeli rocket attack.
Who do some posters think that opposing racist attacks on Palestinians is somehow racist 'against Jews'?
Maybe some people think the term 'scum' was over the top, but I can't see how. Pat is quite rightly angry about what has happened and is expressing this. It seems to me that some people think it is OK to use words like that in speech but not to write them. Anyway there is much worse langauge used on this site most of the time.
On a practical note, does anyone know if any protests are planned in Ireland about this attack, at the Israeli Embassy or anywhere?
from the editorial guidelines - and don't blame us for zionist spamming see -
http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=8099&start=70
Why don't you remove racist abusive pro-zionist comments?
Will you answer this question?
You found it very easy to remove my comment.
It seems different rules are applied to different people by the rulers of indymedia.
I take the description muppet as a copliment. I've always modelled myself on oscar the grouch.
I think it is allowable to support the actions of the Palestinian resistance without having the term archair added.
i don't just relax in my armchair; I am an active member of afa & other groups.
I think indymedia is being discredited a lot worse by letting on articles which justify the murder of arab children.
But I understand why whoever did - death to zionists - is all that is needed to label us anti semetic and pro killing - which I don't think we are - we are doing our best here you know and I think If you go back thru the newswires you will find Blisset all over the posting of articles and features that are basically anti zionist - zionist spam is good for people in measured doses as it reflects a reality - we can't catch it all - but death to anybody in my book is bullshit - last thing needed in Middle east is more death threats - esp from Irish spectators - even if they are afa
and you too can be one - editorial changes month per month and I don't even know most of these people even though involved - here's where you start saying that we are hijacked
your'e right I am simultaneously a member of FF , FG , SWP, SP, SF , GREENS and ame a hijacker/ruler of thm all ;-)
I realise you are not the person i should be arguing with. I also guess i could have been more careful with the title of my comment. but i was very annoyed at the murder of children at the time.
I still think though my comment shouldn't have been removed when other stuff is left on.
Maybe I will get involved iin indymedia & become a ruler of the world!
Pat - if you believe that there are comments similar in form/language to your "death to Zionists", please bring them to our attention by providing a link.
As has beeen said on numerous occasions here, Indymedia is not a haven of free speech on the Web - it's about an alternative approach to news. The Internet itself enables you to set up as many "death to Zionist" sites as you like.
An interesting comment from one of the IMC global volunteers:
"So, we basically have this romantic notion of free speech, and the reality that free speech doesn't mean ilanything with out a distribution system. A large part of what indymedia does is act as a distribution system. It's not a distribution system of whatever people want to post, or even representing every view regarding political topics. It is a distribution system who's goal is "to further the self-determination of people under-represented in media production and content, and to luminate and analyse local and global issues that impact ecosystems, communities and individuals." "
It is also a common policy of many Indymedia local sites to protect their newswires against abuse in the form racist and discriminatory postings. This is to promote an atmosphere of freedom and respect. I fully defend unrestricted free speech of any nature, racist or otherwise, but that doesn't mean that Indymedia should be its home.
One more thing Pat - if you want to sign up to the mailing lists the link is http://www.indymedia.ie/about/get_involved.html
Pat as the member of the editorial commitee who removed your comment I feel I should respond.
It's amazing what we have in the space of a week is getting accused of publishing anti Israeli and now Pro Zionist propaganda.
Pat read the editorial guidelines the title of your comment was an absolute breach of guidelines. It may amaze you to discover that we also remove comments that are equally abusive but from the other point of view, you don't seem them because they're gone.
Pat your comment called for killing and murder.
It's similar to this, another comment removed from the same article:
Not Finished
by Roo Wed, Jul 24 2002, 12:37pm
chugger18@hotmail.com
What a pity Hitler didnt finish what he started, then we wouldnt have this mess.
Which is expressing a similar sentiment to yours, it's gone as well.
The Zionist Propaganda you claim we favour usually stops short of outright demands for enthic cleansing, and if it does we remove it. If there is examples of this that you feel we've missed join the editorial list and point them out.
Please don't spam up our newswire with your whinging. As for your comments about "getting involved with Indymedia and becoming a ruler of the world". Please leap on board, we've an opening for the Dicator of Greenland.
Aidan
-One of the IMC Ireland Volunteers-
Aidan I don't believe it is appropriate to liken my comment to that of a nazi.
I realise the heading "death to zionists" was over the top but my central point is that Palestinians have a right to fight back.
Oh, btw. i don't consider comments pointing out that your rules are applied selectively to be whinging or spamming.
I support the concept of Indymedia, and I don't believe that racist comments re Arabs or Jews contribute to a just solution of the problems of the middle east region. I would like to ask Aidan one question, I recall recently a comment from a Zionist supporter calling the Palestinian people "animals", is that less worse than calling all Israelis "scum", I don't think that comment was deleted.
Pat, taking these two comments standing alone
1. Death to all Zionist.
2. Hitler was right.
They express the same sentiment.
Therefore your comment was hidden. The body of your text is irrevelant when the title has such an abusive and hate filled tone. If you want to write a piece about the right for Palestinians to defend themselves, I suggest next time you stop short of demanding wholesale slaughter and ethnic cleansing. Which is what I take "Death to all Zionists" to mean. To me that says you condone genocide. Whether the body of your message then goes on to discuss the right for Palestinian self defense, the title is so objectional the comment can't remain. Do you understand?
And Pat it is whinging and it is spamming, we have mailing lists set up to discuss these things.
http://www.indymedia.ie/about/mailinglists.html
Des. Re read the thread, Pat C's comment was hidden because of his "Death to Zionists" title. Not because of the "scum" comment. or "animals" Again if you see something objectable on the site contact us. Indymedia editorial staff are volunteers who check the site in their spare time, and it is concievable that we'll miss something.
http://www.indymedia.ie/about/contact.html