Defeat for SP in ‘07, but where is the internal debate?

by Extrovert Introvert Mon Oct 08, 2007 18:05

It amazes me how some people on the left from their armchairs always want to make claim over organisations that they are not members of. Surely if there is internal debate it is exactly that - Internal! If you want to get involved in internal debate why not join and get active?

by Mark P Mon Oct 08, 2007 17:45

John, as so often, is not being entirely honest here.

As he is well aware, he was not expelled from the Socialist Party. Many years ago he moved to the United States and was involved with the Socialist Party's sister organisation there, a group which is now called Socialist Alternative. He was expelled from our American sister organisation, then called Labor Militant. As I said in the original blog discussion, the Irish Socialist Party is extremely reluctant to expel anybody and has not done so at all for decades.

The rest of John's post is the usual congealed mixture of dishonest complaint and bizarre stuff about "left sectarianism". I'm not interested in running through his views on either subject for the tenth or eleventh time, so I'll leave him to drone on in peace.

by john throne - Labors militant voice Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:50 loughfinn at aol dot com

I just came across this discussion recently. I see where the SP spokesperson keeps repeating that the SP allows factions and does not expel people. One of the methods of stalinism was the continued repition of lies. It is a lie that the SP allows factions. I along with five other people set up a faction in the SP and was expelled and given no right of appeal. Where is the record of factions. When the Ted Grant faction formed in the early 1990's it split rather than tolerate being in a minority. The same thinking dominated this faction. Operating as a faction was intolerable to it. They also saw and see the revolutionary organization as having to totally united and ruled from the top down by one or two people. The majority faction at that time became the CWI and when myself and five others developed difference we were expelled.

The SP keeps repeating the lie that it allows factions and does not expel people. The SP keeps repeating this lie in the hope that it will not be challenged and that it will therefore become accepted. This is part of the method of stalinism.

It is up to the members of the SP to challenge this method and these lies inside the SP or their organization will destroy itself. An internal struggle along these lines is all that will save the SP from its own destructive measures.

And by the way on the election results. Some of us long before the election were calling for a united front of left candidates. We explained that this would increase the feeling amongst the working class that there was a left alternative and in this way increase support for the idea of voting for left candidates. It would have reduced the number of people who thought that a vote for the left was a wasted vote.

We also argued for a united front of left candidates as a way to take forward the struggle for a workers' party. The SP because of its left sectarian position has damaged the working class. Both in reducing the vote that could have been won and in refusing to take the opportunity to move forward on working with other left forces to build a workers' party.

John Throne.