Report of Rally in support of "Miss D"

by bobot - Choice Ireland Fri May 04, 2007 19:40 choiceireland at gmail dot com

that is very sad about your sister's loss. members of choice ireland spoke to miss d yesterday. she said she was very glad of the support she was recieving outside of the four courts. she said she was initially close to tears when she saw the crowd, thinking that we might be "pro-lifers".

she and her boyfriend had bought baby clothes and were ready to have their baby until they discovered the terrible news that it would not live. her choice, then, was to have an abortion. it was taken out of her hands by hospital staff who contacted her social worker and the hse who contacted the gardai.

choice ireland supports "choice". it is miss d's choice to have an abortion. we respect her decision. we also support single mothers (i am one) and all women who choose to bear children in difficult circumstances.

we would never presume to advise any individual in a personal decision. if miss d had decided that she wanted to bear and mourn for this baby, that would have been her choice, and the right one for her.

above all else, we believe that no-one - not church nor state - has the right to decide for a woman how to live her life. only she knows what is right for her.

in case anyone is confused about who or what choice ireland are, i have uploaded our founding documents here: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82358

we have called a rally tomorrow to support miss d. we will also be putting forward our position on choice. people who support a woman's right to choose will have their voices heard.

Satuday 12pm GPO
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82312

by From the IT Fri May 04, 2007 17:43

The legal arguments are laid out on page 4 of the Irish Times today. In essence the HSE had no right to impede the movement of the woman (and was told so by the Garda) but told her she could not travel. Counsel for the State is not contesting any right of movement or any rights to protect a minor - they say that her counsel must show that she was given a legal prohibition. "So why are we here?" asked her counsel. And the judge said he would not examine the constitutional issues if there was no such prohibition.

Some social worker told her she was grounded, wrote to the Garda and Passport Office and made various threats (including "the circus of the law court", which she is being subjected to) but the State is not advancing any case related to this odious behaviour. Her counsel and the State's counsel are arguing entirely unrelated cases. The end result will be (another) dismissal without any meaningful finding.

by ?? Fri May 04, 2007 17:06

there seems to be an overlap between issues of the HSE attitude to abortion and also the powers the HSE has to restrict travel, and authorise or otherwise instruct the passport office in regards to a minor in its care (which presumably do not apply only in cases of pregnant 17 year olds)
Any legally informed folks able to go further into this?
What powers does the HSE have over someone in it;s care?
Is it some through back from the days when the state could feck you away with little oversight, a bit like the industrial schools?

I'm not interested in arguing the rights or wrongs of abortion here,... cos in fairness, if this girl wins or loses, it will be hammer and nail on the details of who has what powers in care etc, which could see it all denied on a technicality.

by C Murray Fri May 04, 2007 15:20

That is a possibility, which would explain why this campaign amongst others
have argued for:

1.Free , safe and legal abortion in Ireland.
2. A state -care system that allows for the provision of services of Non-directional counselling, post
abortion counselling.
3.Regulation of rogue agencies who are giving directional biased and
non-professional information.
4.Safe spaces for women and girls to get advice.

to that can be added a look at the legislation on co-equality, an investigation of Health
service funding to rape trauma units and forensic nurses.

If the issue of liberalisation is what is bothering people than to continue to deny
the necessity of human rights to people in need is feeding right into that
because refusal to face up to the issue in any way is handing the impetus for change
right into the political system which is dedicated to reducing essential services,
increasing profiteering and universal insurance, which amounts quite simply
to a two-tier system and an abdication of state care to the individual in crisis.

Transposing the human rights of women and girls into Irish law is also a necessity.
reducing complex arguments to simple fear is a blind refusal to acknowledge
the women who have faced having to leave family, other kids and close relatives
to obtain a service in another country. That is a very isolating experience when
extended family support is most necessary.

Poland has recently attempted to change abortion laws which have refused
to acknowledge individual rights to privacy and bodily integrity.

If an abortion is needed or sought the service should be available here.
same goes for genetic counselling in the presence of illness, because
Miss 'D's mother lost an infant the same way and will speak on the
effect it had on her and her family in the court.

by Revolting Fri May 04, 2007 14:44

It is revolting that the person or people assigned to protect Ms D after she was assaulted by her mother and taken into care have, as their utmost priority, a humiliating and abusive manipulation of her liberty. A parent applying to the gardai, courts or passport office as this person / these people did would be given short shrift. Whoever decided that imprisonment was a supportive response to such an unfortunate diagnosis last Friday should be hauled before the courts to explain.

by Brid Fri May 04, 2007 12:58

HSE stopped 'd' getting a passport.
yesterday they admitted that they wanted to put her in a psych institute.

The girl does not have a passport to leave Ireland.

now, we are observing the wilfull abuse of power by a non-statutrory government
appointed body.

This will delay her right to travel even further- isn't it great to be irish?
isn't it great to watch how fucked up law becomes when it is made by men
for women?

All the NGO's and rape centres stand outside of the legislature and have not
been wholly consulted on these issues.

How low can we go , at this point I am beyond disgusted. it is now
public record and therefore an indictment in failure by sucessive legislatures.

by Brid Fri May 04, 2007 11:41

there is help , you know for both you and your sister. try S.I.D.S

this is why it is necessary to deal with issues of abortion as choice through regulation,
information to be regulated and of course the emotional reaction of someone in an
obvious grief-situation going online to talk of death in a public arena?

I suggest counselling would be appropriate- afterall, not all young pregnant women
in ireland are this girl, but proper advice and openness would prevent recurrences.

S.I.D.S- sudden infant death assoc.

by Emma Fri May 04, 2007 11:04

I full agree.

What kind of people protest in favour of killing disabled people or people who are less than perfect? Aborting the handicapped is cruel and disturbing. My sister had a fullterm, still born baby. SHe was broken hearted but she got to bury her and grieve for her and held her tiny little body after the birth and said goodbye. She doesn't have to live with the guilt of having a part in her death which is what this poor girl will have to cope with long after the HSE is finished with her and the 'pro-choicers' are finished using her to further their agenda.

Disgusting.

by J.Carax Thu May 03, 2007 21:13

x

by ? Thu May 03, 2007 20:19

Eh....there wasn't anywhere near 30 people at this event

by Jay Thu May 03, 2007 19:34

I'm suprised by the lack of comments on this issue. Anyway, I first want to point out that the State cannot prevent anyone from travelling to another State for services for termination of pregnancies. The 'travel section' of the 1992 Amendment was intended to specifically stop women from being injuncted from traveling to the UK for abortions, but granted no specific RIGHT to travel, i.e. 'D' can travel is she wants to but the HSE are under no legal obligation to, for example, pay for the costs of travel and the abortion procedure.

''This is calling for legislation to cover the "X" and "D" cases, for the repeal of the 8th amendment and for free safe and legal abortion to be made available in Ireland.''
Well an amendment can't be repealed by it's very nature. It has to be replaced or removed by referendum of the People. Legislation is definetly needed as regards the X case, I agree.

by sovietpop Thu May 03, 2007 19:04

Protesters called for free, safe, legal abortion in Ireland for women who need them. How many more women have to be subjected to the high court? Is there no end to the cruelty?