Construction begins at Tara, under news blackout

by DIY Tue Mar 27, 2007 14:53

Given the history of the Tara campaign I'm not sure how many would turn out for a protest, but that having been said, why not call one yourself?

Get in touch with the political parties mentioned above, and say you are organising a protest and you need help in the form of a list of media contacts and some leaflets printed, and ask them to inform their own supporters. Then pick a date and time. All the numbers of the candidates in the election should be freely available on their own literature so call them personally and ask them to come to your demo.

Then buy some padlocks and chains in a hardware store and chain yourself to one of the diggers, and ask them to join you.

Good luck.

by Sickened - The Irish Nation Tue Mar 27, 2007 16:09 taracrisis at yahoo dot ie

Who cares about what happened before? There will be years for finger-pointing. The issue is what is happening now and what can happen...

DIY is right. I'm calling for a public meeting at the Wolfe Tone statue on Stephens Green at 6.00pm on Saturday. That's the northeast corner, by Baggot St. Be there if you care.

Does anyone want to help put up posters or send emails?

by Bridie Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:59

I have been keeping my eye on the tara saga for a while and i would like to ask why the likes of Dr.Muireann ni Bhrolchain with her contacts have not managed to get an independent Archaeologist from the Uk to sign an affidavid to stop the destuction at Roestown etc,. I

by RS Tue Mar 27, 2007 20:08

Is there some rule that says "an independent archaeologist from the UK" can sign something to stop work on Irish building sites? Did I miss a meeting or wha?

by Bridie Tue Mar 27, 2007 20:17

I heard somewhere that if the person has an Irish licence and they believe a place is a National monument they then can sign an affidavid, i may be wrong,but if im correct why has no one tried it.

by JM Tue Mar 27, 2007 22:15 Rossport

I'm hugely disappointed that the wholesale destruction has now started, but I'm not surprised at the lack of media coverage. We have the same problems here in Mayo with our prospective neighbours Shell, Statoil and Marathon tearing away and slowly destroying our drinking water, and that's just for starters.

If I wasn't occupied here I'd be at Tara. It is an outrage that our history can be desecrated in front of our eyes, and is a symptom of the selfish society that has accompanied so-called success.

I hope the larger campaign around the Valley can get some real momentum going now. Action needs to be taken while there is still something there to be saved, or they'll rip the soul out of Ireland and we'll be lost to greed forever...

I'd encourage anyone who can spare some energy to get involved, because you'll never regret doing the right thing.

by Sickened - The Irish Nation Wed Mar 28, 2007 00:58

One of the activists on the savetara mailing list posted the PQ below a little further up the newswire, at http://indymedia.ie/article/81679 as a separate story with some personal comments added. It looks like a news management tactic to move this story down the ladder, and out of sight. The obvious thing was to post it on this thread. Now there's some complete hoax of a story, also about parliamentary questions, above it at http://indymedia.ie/article/81687 which moved this one down another peg.

Chun an Aire Comhshaoil, Oidreachta agus Rialtais Aitiuil:

(to the Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government:-

To ask the minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government if his attention has been drawn to the destruction and dismantling in recent weeks of sites of major archaeological significance in The Roestown area of County Meath, ahead of a full assessment being carried out as to whether they meet the criteria to be designated as national monuments as laid out in the National Monuments Act.
Reply:-

" Archaeological works at Roestown, Co Meath have been carried out in accordance with the directions I issued on 11th May 2005 , under section 14a of the NMA (2004-as amended)

No new national monuments were discovered at Roestown in the course of these archaeological works.An inspector from my dept inspected the site prior to the removal of a souterrain.The archaeological works were being carried out to the required standard. There have been a number of cases with such sites, which are relatively common in Ireland, as in this incidence, and are preserved by record.

Excavations at Roestown, including making of 3d laser images are substantially complete when final reports have been submittd to and considered by my department, I will ensure they are made publically available in the interests of extending the range and depth of
our archaeological knowledge.'

(ends)

Question 605:- Tabled by Aengus O Snodaigh.

http://indymedia.ie/article/81679

by Billy idle Wed Mar 28, 2007 04:32

As JM points out - Another example of wanton cultural/environmental vandelism by this thatcherite government ably covered up/assisted by a craven pro-estaiblisment media lead by RTE and the O'Reilly press.

by W. Finnerty. Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:10

"The banks have corrupted parliaments and courts in order to achieve their seemingly invincible position."

"That is why the banks have to have dominance over the courts. They do this by firstly controlling the judges and secondly eliminating juries ..."

The above two pieces of text have been taken from the following address:
http://www.rightsandwrong.com.au/

Has anyone ever tried to find out which banks are involved in the financing of the proposed M3 toll road at present scheduled to go through the Tara / Skreen Valley? Where are they located I wonder? London? Brussels? New York? Maybe there are several banks involved, including the Bank of Ireland (for example)?

Might a small piece of "name and shame" relating to the banks who are making this project possible be in order at this stage? - before things go ANY further regarding the wholly avoidable destruction of our priceless heritage sites?

by Sickened - The Irish Nation Wed Mar 28, 2007 13:41

It is great to see that there is still widespread horror amongst the general public about what is happening. On the other hand, it is horrifying to see that the group claiming to be the campaign group is really just a political campaign group, and kept silent about the beginning of construction proper. They also let the destruction of Roestown happen without any opposition and any news report until it was over. The media didn't cover Mondays start of construction because it appears nobody told them and nobody organised a protest which the public could support.

The Tara issue, like many others, is too often seen as a simple win/lose situation, ie is the project stopped or not. But the purpose of protest is to express sentiment against something and to do just that; protest. Therefore, if there is no protest then it is a loss. If there is public outcry, the the campaign is a sucess. The Government made up their mind a long time ago to build this road on Tara, and the odds are always against anyone making them change. But they are winning, not because the M3 has not been halted, but because they are geting to demoloish Tara this silently and invisibly. 48 hours after the wholesale destruction has begun, we still don't have any pictures here of what is happening, and this is the most frightening part of all.

A fresh and open beginning is needed to organise protests. Please come to the public meeting on Saturday and help put together a grassroots network out of Dublin that can turn things around. All people, not matter what their involvement has been, should come and see what the possibilities are, before there are none left.

by Michael Canney - Campaign to Save Tara - personal capacity Wed Mar 28, 2007 17:15

As an active member of the Campaign to Save Tara (CST) I would like to clarify a few points raised in this thread.

Firstly and most impotortantly construction has not begun on the disputed section, what in fact happened on Monday was that a lot of heavy earth moving equipment was moved to a site called Lismullen. From the information available to us it appears that all the archeologists presently working in the Valley are now being moved to Lismullen. We can only speculate why this has been done but we suspect that a major burial ground has been discovered. The employment of this type of machinery is wholly imappropraite for any archgeological activity, much less the removal of corpses.

Up to now it has been very difficult for the activists on-site to keep track of the huge number of archeological digs along the 12km route. Bear in mind that they are on foot and there is only a permanent presense of three people. Now that archeological efforts are concentrated in one area, the activists are discussing how best to focus their energies and provide the public with an opportunity to show their disgust at what is happening and their support.

The CST meet weekly in Navan and have established a code of conduct, a mission statement and an agreed and democratic way of operating. For the first time, albiet very late, there is a co-ordinated and coherant group meeting up and taking collective decisions on the Tara/M3 issue. Any actions to be called over the next few weeks will be tabled and discussed at general meetings in Navan. All those willing to abide by our code of conduct are welcome to attend.

It is our intention to run a political campaign during the general election and most, but not all, of our collective energies are going into drafting campaign documentation, fundraising, organising the launch etc. We are not naive enough to think that canvassing and electioneering are automatically going to save the Valley, but we have made a collective decision that a change of government, elected with clear mandate in Meath and in some other targeted constituencies, is the best hope for a review of the route.

Every Friday at 2pm there is a roadside protest at the site of the proposed interchange below the Hill. Public support is clear and the number attending, while not massive, has remained steady over the last five weeks. Non-violent direct action is appropraite in this camapign, and well organised and co-ordinated actions will take place over the course of the next few months.

We have no interest in engaging in the kind of personalised and reactive mud-slinging that is characteristic of some of the fringe groups, and would advise indymedia readers that Tarawatch and Vincent Salafia (under any guise or author title) are not members of our campaign.

We believe a clear set of strategic aims and a strategy for attaining them is the way forward, and would encourage those who are interested in getting involved in a broady based, democratic group with a range of tactics and strategies to come to our meetings at the Newgrange Hotel, Navan on Sundays at 2pm.

by Bridie Wed Mar 28, 2007 17:27

I have a question for the Group called CST ,why with there contacts did they not get an Independant archaeologist to sign an affidavit months ago,surely the good Dr has contacts..

by Michael Canney - CST-personal capacity Wed Mar 28, 2007 17:57

There is a really simple and bizarre answer to that...

Nobody with any academic standing in the country, will have anything to do with a legal case or affadavit that is in any way related to Vincent Salafia.

Now that seems odd I know, but you would need to understand the level of loathing and distrust the various Carrickmines and Tara cases have created. Many feel that Carrickmines, in particular, was the wrong case at the wrong time over the wrong site. And some would argue that it actually set in motion a train of events that allowed the M3 to happen (the abolition of Duchas). But nobody could or can tell VS he is wrong. That's the way it has always been.

On another point, just because an expert says something is a National Monument does not make it so, and you have to wonder do any of the discoveries along the route actually constitute National Monuments as defined by the legislation. If there was at least some ambiguity you would think that some ambitious young expert would be willing to step forward - afterall this could make their career.

Finally, the critical mistake at the outset with Tara was that the case became the campaign. When this happened too much faith and energy was put into legal matters and the barrister took over. Our focus through canvassing and leafleting is to actually give the people of Meath a chance to make their voices heard.

There is room for legal challanges and so on and some other parties are exploring various legal options. But they cannot and will not become the focus of a resurgent campaign.

by W. Finnerty. Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:12

"Powerful interests are in a search-and-grab mode for ready loot and political control."

"These recent events headline the fact that a swarm of financial deal-makers are right now fanned out across the United States, making the pitch to local and state officials, and especially sub-agencies of all kinds (transportation, water, museums, parks, and social services facilities), that the only salvation for revenue-short governments, is to sell off public works to private interests. The momentum for this campaign, comes from the fact that the financial system is in an end-phase of speculative blowout. ."

The above two pieces of text come from the "Executive Intelligence Review" report (dated December 8th 2006) at the following address:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/site_packages/eco....html

However, and allowing for our own M3 and other PPP situations, it's not just the United States (is it?) that's being very badly affected and mislead by PPP (Public Private Partnership), or "Plunder Plunder Plunder" schemes, as more and more people are coming to view them?

More general information on the several forms of corruption connected with PPP "deals" can be found via the following link:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Corruption%2C+PPP%...earch

by C Murray Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:26

That is a libellous statement- if 'sickened' would reveal themselves, I would
appreciate it.

I have written on Tara for close on two years- and that is all I have done or claimed to do
and I do not appreciate slurs on what I do. I also know where the insults are coming
from- as do most of the grassroots environmental movement in this country.

Every piece of info pertaining to Tara is important and part of the public
record- including the files/socumentation/ and legislation that some of
us retain in the offices of our solicitors .

Information about Tara and other issues relating to Environment is
relayed through services such as indymedia. Though some
people would think that the issue is based on 'ownership'.

by huh? Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:25

Chris. You're making false claims. It has not been 2 years. Your posted on Tue Oct 17, 2006

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/savetara/message/992

And I'm willing to bet you're still a member

You're also making a fool of yourself, since the SIB has nothing directly to do with Tara. You clearly don't understand the legislation at all. Incinerators, waste plants, power stations, etc are relevant...but not roads, and certainly not Roestown.

by Sickened - The Irish Nation Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:31

Michael. I see you were in the paper recently as one of the people protecting Roestown. What happened? Why is it gone now? Why was nobody informed that it was being dismantled? Why was there no report to Indymedia by CST? And now that construction is under way, why is there again no report here?

by Vincent Salafia - TaraWatch Thu Mar 29, 2007 15:04

In December 2006 TaraWatch, Tara Solidarity Vigil and Save Tara Skryne Valley Group joined together to form Campaign to Save Tara (CST). http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80140

We engaged in a series of protests in the New Year which brought the campaign back to life, got a lot of media attention and brought work to a halt. http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80437

Then Michael Canney, a Green Party activist, arrived and began spreading dissent, and succeeded in dividing the group again. TaraWatch withdrew and as expected a Labour Party Community Councillor for Maynooth joined and is now a spokesperson. Now, as stated above, the primary focus of the CST is to raise money to distribute thousands of leaflets in Meath, which will promote the Green Party/Labour Party agenda and get people elected in Meath and other parts of the country. The primary focus is not protecting sites, as has been clearly shown by the lack of monitoring and protesting at sites.

TaraWatch withdrew from Campaign to Save Tara to focus on a few specific tasks that did not have the support of the group, ie making legal complaints. We also felt, and still do, that the group was hijacked by a Green Party/ Labour Party agenda, being fostered by party activists. We have a council of 18 members, and an active mailing list of 775 members and have for the last few weeks been focused on raising money to get a professional archaeological report done, which can be used in an EU complaint and if done in time will help all Opposition parties in their campaign efforts on the Tara issue.

Carrickmines was occurring while the planning process for the M3 was under way. But why didn't Michael participate in that? Why didn't Michael join the Save Tara Skryne Valley group in 2003? Why does he come along now and divert the whole campaign into an election vechicle? At Carrickmines we got a Supreme Court injunction on a piece of wall at Carrickmines that was a lot less spectacular than the one at Roestown. But, although there has been a legal team standing by, solicitors letters sent on behalf of a litigant, and a good case to be run, lawyers have been prevented from doing their jobs at Roestown and Tara because of lack of expert testimony. So now you have, to use Michael's words, the bizzare situation where you have a potential expert refusing to give an affidavit, and running a political campaign instead. if the contents of Indymedia post http://www.indymedia.ie/article/81529 were sworn to in Court, Roetown would still be there today, and the M3 would be stopped dead.

Michael can criticise Carrickmines all he likes, but the reality of that campaign is that it was won, after two Supreme Court victories and a six month occupation. The third Carrickmines case, against section 8 of the Act established a constitutional duty to protect heritage, for the first time in irish history, which was the perfect argument to be made in a full scale attack on the full National Monuments Act in the Tara case.

The Government had to draft new legislation to complete the M50. That legislation was challenged in full by my case over Tara, and could have succeeded except for the fact that the supporting affidavits given by experts were flawed, and did not make the fundamental argument that certain sites were national monuments. In fairness to the experts, they were willing to testify in court that the sites were national monuments, but the judge would not allow oral evidence. Anyone who knows Judge Thomas Smyth his appointment to the case was fatal. The entire debacle was very embarassing for the experts and myself, and no doubt makes any expert reluctant to proceed on that road again. A Supreme Court appeal would have sealed the fate of the National Monuments Act and Tara, and I withdrew on the understanding that An Taisce and others were preparing a fresh case. In other words, there was a broader legal strategy inplace, that people like Michael have no idea about. This has not materialised, and it may now be too late. But there is till time for the EU to take action and that is the primary focus of TaraWatch at the moment.

The flaw in Michael's whole argument is that too much emphasis was placed on the legal case in the Tara campaign, and that is why it lost momentum. I resigned from the Save Tara Skryne Valley group in 2004 to undertake my case alone, and shield group members from liability. I left behind a very active group, which over the course of the next 9 months proceeded to implode, culminating in the resignation of Muireann Ni Bhrolchain. To be honest, I don't know why that happened, because I wasn't there. But I understand a lot of it had to do with personality conflicts. An injunction could have saved Roestown and still can save Tara. Not considering and supporting that option is folly.

As we sit here today, there is no protesting going on over Tara. That is the result of the misguided strategy of CST. The only way it can be reversed is if a broader Tara network is set up, that allows room for all strategies; legal, political and activist and so on, to occur simultaneously. Nobody running CST has any campaign experience, and members that do are currently under attack within the group by Michael Canney. So, how long before CST goes the way of STSV?

Tara belongs to everyone, and so should the campaign. If we can save the campaign, we can save Tara. TaraWatch is happy to work in partnership with any group concerned about Tara. We formally propose that a Tara Network be established. We offer the use of the hilloftara.info domain name for this end, which can have links to all relevant groups and information, and is not dominated by any one group or agenda.

by Michael Martin Thu Mar 29, 2007 17:51

Shame on Ireland's archaeological community for not fighting for the preservation of Tara! But the NRA is the biggest employer of archaeologists here in Ireland. These guys didn't rush to the aid of Tara in the hour of need because they were afraid of not getting a piece of this NRA cake. In other words, they sold Tara and their souls for a fistful of Euros. But is it really such a surprise seeing our top-notch archaeologists acting like a bunch of spineless rats, when the whole country is run by traitors, con-artists and political parasites, such as Tricky Dickie Roche, Minister AGAINST the Environment?!?!
Shame on our archaeologists and other "experts" for selling out Tara!

by NRA plants Thu Mar 29, 2007 18:13

Ye know the NRA couldn't have better plants than our pals Vincent and Michael. That's right. Have a swipe at what amounts to unity and at the like of Mr Newman and Mr Fenwick. Congrats guys. Glad to have you on our side. Tricky Dicke must love ye

by Vincent Salafia - TaraWatch Thu Mar 29, 2007 18:30

Hello 'NRA Plant'. Having completely separate campaign groups working at odds is hardly unity. I suggest you reread the above post which is a call for unity, amongst those willing to continue to work for Tara. Michael Martin is entitled to be disappointed, like most of us, that there was no case made for Roestown, due to the lack of expert support. I'd imagine the NRA are indeed very happy with that outcome, and the lack of publicity and protest over the destruction happening today. It sounds like you are indeed in agreement with them. Do you have anything intelligent to offer instead of juvenile slurs?

by Bridie Thu Mar 29, 2007 18:33

So the CST are smearing Vincent & Michael as NRA moles,its a shame they don't spend time in getting World attention and also sort out an Independent Archaeologist from the UK or anywhere else to help.All we hear from the good Dr and her co-horts is Vincent this Vincent that.It appears to me that they are using Tara for there own political gains.I have never met this Vincent chap or know him ,but from the sounds of it he cares,unlike people who have the contacts to stop this destruction.

by NRA plants Thu Mar 29, 2007 19:00

well howya there bridie. Im not a member of any group - just someone who wants this bloody road asap. But that Vincent guy is the best ad for the NRA and you're not so bad yerself i'd say

by Michael Martin Thu Mar 29, 2007 19:18 Wicklowwolf at yahoo dot com Co. Wicklow

I am one of the people involved with the various factions fighting for the preservation of Tara. I have also been involved with the Carrickmines campaign, where I met Vincent Salafia. Speaking from my own experience of campaigning with Vincent Salafia for the preservation of Carrickmines and Tara I am utterly dismayed and horrified about the venom thrown at the man by some people. Examine your own campaign track records first before throwing mud at others! Vincent Salafia has done more for the protection of
our archaeological heritage from government-orchestrated vandalism, then all these self-appointed Tara spokespeople combined
who frequently come on Indymedia and other message boards attacking him ! am sure the likes of Dick Roche must be rubbing their dirty hands in delight, grinning like little boys on Bar Mitzvah, when they see people claiming to campaign for the protection of Tara trying to attack the man who has sacrificed and done more for this noble cause than anybody else!
Glad to have you around, Vincent. And as long as you are involved with this campaign
there is hope that we might turn this whole thing around after all! Keep up the good work, mate, and rest assured
that there are people involved with Tara who do appreciate all you have done so far!

by helena Thu Mar 29, 2007 21:22

a little questionez for Michael Martin- 'The Wicklow Wolf"

what has Bar Mitzvah to do with Dick Roche's dirty little hands?

am very curious as to the allusion to the jewish coming of age within the context
of the Tara issue- it seems a rather silly and tangental observation.

Shalom.

[it seems to me that he may be a little old for that particular
ceremony?]

by Mick Egan - Navan Fri Mar 30, 2007 01:33

STOP STOP STOP!!

You fools are rapidly loosing the F**king plot. Pursue you different agendas if you must but stop this utter waste of time and energy bickering. Dick Roche et all are laughing heartly.
Vincent/Bridie if you know something is going on tell people about it - dont complain because they haven't informed you that they know. Share information - privately, preferably dont broadcast to the world.
And yes no one will have anything to do with any legal campaign in which Mr. Salafia is involved - surely that does not need explanation to rational sensible people.
Mr Salafia's actions over Carrickmines put Tara in this position - BECAUSE OF CARRICKMINES THE LEGISLATION WAS CHANGED AND THAT WAS ENTIRELY DUE TO MR. SALAFIA. This is simple fact and I challenge him to refute it.

by W. Finnerty. Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:44

The quotes below come from the report titled "Felix Rohatyn's PPP Swindles: The Mussolini Model for Infrastructure".

"The major players in the buy-out schemes for government infrastructure internationally, are part of a small circle of banks, funds, and principal construction operations, including Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Bros., Lazard, and especially the leader of the pack, Macquarie Bank/Macquarie Infrastructure Group, based in Australia, but originating in London. Macquarie often partners with another big player, the Cintra Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte S.A., of Spain."

I am wondering if any of the above named companies are involved in the planned Tara M3 toll road project?

"The chief thief is Felix Rohatyn, longtime Lazard, and now Lehman Brothers banker."

Assuming Mr Rohatyn is involved, I wonder if there might be any point in trying to contact him? Who knows, he might not be all that bothered if the planned new toll rood took a slightly different route, even if he is a thief?

"In party politics terms, Rohatyn pushes his anti-nation plans on the Democratic side, and his Republican counterpart is George Shultz, former Secretary of State. For example, the two of them appeared together in 2004, at an Oct. 9 conference on, 'The Privatization of National Security,' held at Middlebury College, and sponsored by Shultz's Princeton Project on National Security. The two plugged the desirability of privatizing government defence functions. Their common trait is that they are both against the very system of sovereign nation-states. They are the 'Economic Hit Men' of the popular book of that title, by John Perkins (Confessions of an Economic Hit Man)."

"Their common trait is that they are both against the very system of sovereign nation-states." - might this comment (from the paragraph just above) provide a clue as to why Bunreacht na hEireann (the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland) is being undermined by legislation of recent years which many believe is unconstitutional, and much of which appears to have the fingerprints of Minister for Justice Michael McDowell TD all over it?

"In turn, the pedigree of this network goes back continuously, to some of the very same financial circles involved in the 1930s fascist 'corporatist' economics in Europe behind Hitler and Mussolini, called at the time, 'synarchist.'

When you sup with the devil use a long spoon?

Better still, don't sup with the devil at all?

All of the above quotes came from the following address:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/site_packages/eco....html

by Iona Green - The Future of Ireland Tue Apr 03, 2007 00:44 seatofthehighkings9 at yahoo dot ie

and ill be there to support Tara
~~~~LETS DO IT~~~~~

by dado Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:27

I can't believe V Salafia's arrogance. He blames the archaeology experts for having fatal flaws in their affadavits as the reason his action failed. Wrong! It was his party, he is the so-called 'American Trained Lawyer' and self styled legal eco crusader and has to shoulder responsibility for managing the case. The experts, unlike him, the man of straw, had something to lose by going to court and were genuine in their efforts to oppose the road. If there were omissions in their affadavits then they should have had direction on what the affadavits should contain. There were plenty of other flaws in VS case aside from the ones he'd have us believe cost him the case. Make no mistake his whole legal case was a shambles and was torn apart by the NRA and the State. It was a no contest in legal terms and almost laughed out of court in the end. Its no good blaming others Vincent for the failure - the experts, the judge etc come clean - it was YOU YOU YOU

by Tara-Jane O'Brien Mon Aug 20, 2007 13:19 tjnichol at hotmail dot co dot uk

I have been reading various bits of information, and cannot fathom if the protesting is still in full swing.

Therefore, I, along with a car full of friends will be driving up to Tara on the 25th August.
Calling all people who wish to continue and join the protest against the building of this ridiculous road - Saturday, 25th, lets make our voices count!

by Shane Mon Aug 20, 2007 13:44

Good stuff tara-jane.. Protesting still in full swing. Bring your wellies.
See you up there!