15 British personnel arrested by Iranians in the Persian Gulf

by Duine Sat Mar 24, 2007 13:43

Seo an nuacht is corraí ó chuaig 170 saighdiúr Éilbhéiseacha isteach i Leichtinstéin coicís ó shoin. Bíonn daoine ciotrach ag léamh léarscáileanna, an dtuigeann tú?
Agus fiche blian ó shoin, bheadh saighdiúirí Bheathnacha ag cuardadh bád ar Loch Cairlinn idir condae an Dúin is an Lú, beag beann ar teorainn idirnáisiúnta.
Is dóigh gur bheart beag é seo sa "damhsa" idir an Iaráin is an Iarthar

by Anarchy Rules Sat Mar 24, 2007 20:01

Things are hotting up between the Iranians and the crusaders.

Top Iranian General, Ali Reza Afshar has interrogated the 15 British personnel and has said that they've confessed to having been in Iranian territorial waters.

The incident happened in the Shatt al-Arab waterway which has long been disputed. In 1975 the border was defined under a treaty, however, Saddam Hussein invaded Iran five years later and nullified the treaty that defined the border. The area has been in dispute ever since. Allied crusaders still recognise the 1975 treaty.

The European Union has gotten in on the act too. 'We've' demanded the 'immediate liberation' of the British Forces.

As I've already pointed out, the usual thing is now for the Iranians to hand over the British personnel. However it may be different this time, earlier this year US forces arrested and detained five Iranian soldiers and are still holding them. The Iranians might demand the return of their personnel in a quid pro quo deal.

To complicate matters even further, it looks like the initial spin that was initially carried by the world's mainstream media, with no questions asked, is coming apart at the seams. Top commander of Iraq's territorial waters, Brig. Gen. Hakim Jassim, has told AP Television News in Basra that, "We were informed by Iraqi fishermen after they had returned from sea that there were British gunboats in an area that is out of Iraqi control."

An Iranian foreign ministry spokesperson has accused the British of "violating the sovereign boundaries" of Iran and has labelled the incursion an act of "blatant aggression."

The US has sent more navy ships into the area in a show of strength and has said that with so much military hardware in the Gulf, a small incident like this one could escalate into a dangerous confrontation. General Ali Reza Afshar has responded by saying "The United States and its allies know that if they make any mistake in their calculations ... they will not be able to control the dimensions and limit the duration of a war."

by pat c Sat Mar 24, 2007 20:08

Its a provocation all right. Another Gulf of Tonking. Ther brits always were bad at map reading. Rmember those SAS squads who used to be caught after crossiong the border in to the south due to map reading errors?

The Iranians should treat them as unlawful combatants and try them before kangaroo courts.

by Gerry Sat Mar 24, 2007 20:42

"Ther brits always were bad at map reading"
Aye Pat. They managed to find our country all right and have not been able to find their way out of part of it since.

by pat c Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:25

Unless this was an actual provocation by the British then an exchange of prisoners is likely. At present Iranian diplomats and Revolutionary Guards (tourists no doubt) are held in Iraq by the Us forces.

Surely it would make sense to exchange them for the Marines.

by Kurt Jurgens Tue Mar 27, 2007 13:23

Blair squares up to Iranians over detained British service personnel
"I hope we manage to get them to realise they have to release them.

'If not, then this will move into a different phase. At the moment, what we are trying to do is to make sure that that diplomatic initiative works.'
The British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has warned Iran that the crisis over the detained British military personnel could escalate if they are not released.

Mr Blair said the first concern of his government was the welfare of the personnel captured last Friday and getting them released as quickly as possible.

Speaking on GMTV he said: 'What we are trying to do at the moment is to pursue this through the diplomatic channels and make the Iranian government understand these people have to be released and that there is absolutely no justification whatever for holding them.'

"I hope we manage to get them to realise they have to release them.

'If not, then this will move into a different phase. At the moment, what we are trying to do is to make sure that that diplomatic initiative works.'

Asked about what he meant by a 'different phase', he said: 'We will just have to see, but what they should understand is that we cannot have a situation where our servicemen and women are seized when actually they are in Iraqi waters under a UN mandate.'

by iosaf Tue Mar 27, 2007 19:46

it would be done by a Democrat US presidency not a Republican US presidency. But before the Republican presidency did Iraq - I never really thought our "manners" had plunged to such a low level.
Blair, oh what can we say?
I've called him an antichrist - I've predicted his fall - I met with his regime tentacles a few times to discuss things - he called for my group of rts! heads to be horsewhipped for an art action which rubbed salt into the millions of squid disruption... we shopped one of his children for drunk and disorderly as tit for tat......Yet I never put him in the same dock as Bush, Aznar and Berlusconi. Of course the worldwide anti-war movement did. Most Britons themselves did. But I as I told ye - saw it differently - which is why I coined back in 2003 the semiotic formula US/K. Blair is one head of a hydra (a mythical monster of Greek culture of many heads) - the hydra of HMG and the shaper of a 21st century attempt by the british ruling class to have their own "brit hun century" (told ye before). The party which was once a movement under his surprise leadership - dropped its "dead wood" (many who hate him now celebrated his election) and his "meritocracy" & 3rd way have copper-fastened the plug on the leak of power - HMG and the ruling class of the "anglo-saxon world" perceived in the late 1960's to mid 1970's. They were dark dark years my friends. That's when Ireland got her first high level Iranian refugees. They were mostly given good jobs too - decent pay, perks, respect and not too much grafting. I don't really see a "tonkin bay" excuse to send in the marines. Brit soldiers land on the wrong beaches and cross the wrong borders all the time, especially their SAS bunch. Last place they effed up was caving in Mexico (or perhaps they didn't eff up - and someone at the last moment recalled the idea that one of the knives of megiddo had been left there)...................... relax they're safe.
The Iranian regime, both its spiritual leadership and its democratically elected government are clearly amongst the most sophisticated emergent political powerbrokers of the last decade. I've told ye all that consistently - they are very very good at the games they play - the alliances they have forged - in South America in Asia in Africa..... they are amongst the best. & they still have the west by the psychic pubes as I really liked putting it.
I genuinely don't believe at this point that a Democrat US presidency would attack Tehran in some lame revenge for the hostage crises which brought down Carter. Not that I consider them less vengeful than the neo-cons who really had to take out Sadam and his sons. I somehow think - it is somehow - somehow - convenient to have a little "military incident" at this juncture. Simply as the precedents as casus belli (reason for war) are so striking. Everyone worth the place on the list of warmonger has used such excuses. & if nothing else - I have learnt by careful observation that the Blair presidency of HMG UK and its favoured administration of the USA are not so crass. The crassness is going to leave our world stage soon - along with Dick Cheney. How much suffering and death it has caused might yet prove a useful impediment to other criminals repeating the smash and grab mistakes. Carter at end was more of a service to the US Democrats as an ex-president than as
the man whose CIA couldn't get those hostages out.

Heck! haven't we all realised on what side our bread is buttered regards Iran? Need a reminder?
"knowing which side they bread be buttered : Iran" http://72.232.163.18/article/74152 http://indymedia.ie/article/74152
"Iran / USA / Letters / God / Guantanamo / the price of Oil" http://72.232.163.18/article/75985 http://indymedia.ie/article/75985
"Chavez in Iran" http://72.232.163.18/article/77612 http://indymedia.ie/article/77612
They can have us by the psychic pubes in a moment. And the west, be it the USA or UK isn't really powerful enough to take them on and not lose a few pubes...........ouch..........should have shaved.

by Gerry Wed Mar 28, 2007 13:03

You make good sense iosaf.
Let me add my own 2 cents worth if I may.
The US and UK military are already stretched. The US especially has had to call up the National Guard to find enough personnel to maintain their grip on Iraq. And the British have had to call up their Territorials in order to bolster their forces. Neither can afford another conflict as it would stretch them beyond breaking point. Add to that the fact that the majority of their general populations (i.e. the voters) are opposed to the war in Iraq. They will hardly feel differently about a war with Iran.

Iran is a lot more stable than Iraq was and the Iranian people are a lot more likely to stand behind their government, unlike a large number of Iraqis were. Therefore a war with Iraq would be extremely bloody and given their relations with countries around the world, especially the Middle East, any type of move against them would have an adversely negative effect politically.

Tony-boy is just going to have to grin and bear it. And eventually give in to a prisoner exchange. His buddy George has enough on his plate so I doubt he will be making waves either. The fact that neither of there lovely men are making serious threats of military intervantion unless the prisoners are returned speaks volumes.

Finally, have you noticed Isreal has been very quiet on this? In the past they would have used any and every excuse to have a go at the Iranians. Not now. I guess they realise that you don't s**t on your own front door step. Well at least not if your neighbour is likely to rub your nose in it.

by A10 Wed Mar 28, 2007 13:03

Since the Iranians were acting illegally in open waters.The allies should snatch a dozen of theirs and interrogate them as well.If the British are jailed or tortured the Iranians get the same.Big into eyes for eyes down there.

by pat c Wed Mar 28, 2007 13:09

Well talking of eye for an eye, maybe they are being duckboarded or having dogs set on them. Maybe the Iranians are treating them as illegal combatants, What do you think? The US have already seized Iranians in Iraq. A swap would seem to be the sensible solution.

by MichaelY - iawm Wed Mar 28, 2007 13:10

A 10
Good to see you back again with your simple solutions.
Of course, you forget that the occupation forces in Iraq have already seized 10 Iranians - with a variety of accusations. Some were working in the Iranian Embassy - others in a Consulate. A couple were traders. They are still being kept in various dungeons with no charges, no trial....
So.

by A10 Wed Mar 28, 2007 14:32

Well life is simple,if you make itso.BTW did you see the Gaurdian today???The British were 1.5 kms within Iraqui waters.Surely thats true as the Gaurdian never lies?????

by iosaf says invade Iran! but only when we've shaved the - psychic pubes! Wed Mar 28, 2007 16:42

They've issued satelite photos to prove it. I wonder did they come from the system "skynet" they launched from ESA on March 12th? Bilateral relations have just been cut between HMG UK and the Islamic republic of Tehran.This means that little corner of Mount Merrion which has been Iranian for such a long time - won't be talking to the bit of UK around the corner. If the diplomats from the 2 states now without official relations pass each other on the road they will eschew glances. The woman who gurgles for HMG on this diplomatic government level (Miss Beckett) covering the crises just after spitting her fury at Zimbabwe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6501555.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6503211.stm
This reminds me of an incident which occured in the late last century on the island of Ireland. A squad of Irish soldiers for some reason were patrolling a county border near the town of Cavan. It was just after dawn, and the sleepy tacitun drumlin hills were just springing their first daisies to the gentle dew drawn mist. All of a sudden, without forewarning or presentiments - the sharp-eyed Irish soldiers perceived the bobbing up and down of little bobbles on berets - a sight which would have filled lesser men with terror. Inthose days Irish women didn't serve in the regular forces security of our county borders.
But not our lads who without a hitch of indecision showed the excellence of their training in silhouette recogntion & knew the bobbing bobbles for what they were - a platoon of brit hun squaddies. After some tense negotiations between the 2 officers in charge facilitated by the Irish officer's fluent English it was agreed that the Irish platoon had crossed the border of Cavan. At this point - something wonderful happened. That Irish officer cried in a voice which would curdle the ears of any saxon - "you're not supposed to be in this country anyway".

Yesterday it was reported that Pope Ratzinger had declared last Sunday that Hell is a reality and certainty for those who refuse God's love. He also declared it to be eternal. The sort of dimension where your psychic pubes get pulled 24/7. I don't want you to have your psychic pubes pulled without having a chance at least to read what the splendidly capable Iranians have to say about the nautical miles which seperate Iraqi waters from Iranian waters, Cavan from Armagh.
here's their state news site where you'll read quicker than almost anyone else in Europe or the anglo-saxon language news world of how the tippy toppy game playing Iranians are going to release the female brit soldier soon. :-
http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-24/07032869551829...7.htm

by itchy? - (appending data to last comment) Wed Mar 28, 2007 17:03

"Iran has already provided the geographical coordinates of the detention to the British government and has sufficient evidence, including GPS navigator systems, to indicate the penetration of British military personnel 0.5 km deep into Iranian waters," the embassy in London said.
Britain's deputy chief of defence staff, Vice Admiral Charles Style confirmed that his government had been given a second set of coordinates by Iran about the detentions that were in Iranian waters. But Styles also presented different British coordinates to claim that the British naval personnel were arrested 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi waters. The Iranian Embassy said that the two governments have been closely examining and discussing the case on a daily basis due to "its sensitive security aspects." "We are confident that Iranian and British governments are capable of resolving this security case through their close contacts and cooperation in which would prevent the reoccurrence of such incidents in the area," it said. The statement also reassured that as the investigation continued "all British marines and sailors are in good health and condition and they enjoy welfare and Iranian hospitality."...............ouch you have me by the psychic pubic hair!...........
"We understand the anxiety of their families, but they must be assured that they are in safe hands and have a better life than the risky mission in the Persian Gulf waters," it said.
The embassy also added that the legal and technical issue had "no links to any other issues" and warned that unfounded speculation and provocative rhetoric can only be "counterproductive."

By the way the Iranian government is at the 19th Arab League summit in the Saudi capital.
The two-day summit, opening Wednesday, is scheduled to discuss crises in Lebanon, Iraq, and Palestine. Iran's nuclear program will also be among topics to be reviewed by the participants in the summit. Leaders and senior officials from 23 Arab and Islamic states as well as United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, Secretary General of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu and EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana are taking part in the two-day summit. Foreign ministers of China, Russia and India are also attending the summit. Libya is the only Arab state that is not participating in the summit. Arab League. & your favourite "man" Hugo Chavez has sent his team who were allowed on to the Arab League last year after their pals the Iranians suggested it made sense. Now without boring ye all too much & being indulgent - I really would like to know if the location data floating around Admiralty House in London and FM Tehran (& just in case you're very slow - a good bit of Dublin 4 & hinterlands) shows us in any useful sense the limitations or capabilities of the Skynet system troubleshooting period . That's coz I read Hansard - & a good deal of my fellow Irish men and women on the other side of the border of bobbing bobbles - paid for that system through their ill spent taxes. I hope this works up to an exchange of letters between Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad & Tony Blair soon. As I've always insisted if ye could pronounce Dr. Mahoud's name easier - he'd be a household name. olé mahmou!
"knowing which side thy bread be buttered : Iran" http://indymedia.ie/article/74152
"Iran / USA / Letters / God / Guantanamo / the price of Oil" http://indymedia.ie/article/75985
"Chavez in Iran" http://indymedia.ie/article/77612

by iosaf Tue May 29, 2007 11:50

& so I think a quick refresh of the "British Marine Iranian Revolutionary Guard Hostage" crises and its solution ( as I wrote back then sometimes a powerless enemy is the best diplomat) could be worthwhile today. It wasn't that long ago that a group of British marines engaged in espionage got to facilitate all sorts of squeeks between London and Tehran and as I pointed out at the time count how many prisoners each side was holding. At some stage the need for Iranian & Syrian involvement in the stability of Iraq (if that even meant their political victory) would need to become a publically acknowledged agenda. & so yesterday for the first time since the US hostage crises which saw Jimmy Carter lose his presidency and the CIA fail in a rescue mission within Iran - the 2 states have talked to each face to face.

This to be quite honest with everyone - one of the most visible steps you're going to see on the long road to ending the war in Iraq. & the state that looks very likely as being declared the winner when this whole farce ends is still the same state which was my "tipster's favourite" all along. As I've always insisted if ye could pronounce Dr. Mahoud's name easier - he'd be a household name. Iran has moved into the multipolar 21st century with astounding skill.

"knowing which side thy bread be buttered : Iran" http://indymedia.ie/article/74152
"Iran / USA / Letters / God / Guantanamo / the price of Oil" http://indymedia.ie/article/75985
"Chavez in Iran" http://indymedia.ie/article/77612

The English Guardian reports on the USA & Iran meeting in Iraq yesterday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2090070,00.html