Call in from Mosney:- Deportation In Progress in Family Asylum Centre.

by calm down Wed Sep 20, 2006 16:23

No I don't get your 'point', I assumed you were asking a question.

A welcome for legal immigrants and speedy deportation for illegal immigrants has been the consistent and unchanging viewpoint of the vast majority of the electorate since long before the citizenship referendum. I have no doubt either that it is a policy which is popular with the vast majority of our legal immigrants (the overwhelming majority of the total).

Only the nutters at the two extremes of the issue (RAR and IRP) and a few of their fellow-travellers on the extreme right and left disagree with the current policies. I am willing to bet that if a Fine Gael-led coalition gets into power after the next general election (increasingly unlikely) there will be no significant change.

by Frankie Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:23

Hello Calm down,
I wonder what people would say if such a poll were carried out TODAY in 2006. The one you mentioned dates back somewhat to 2004 and peoples opinions keep changing. See how the Governments popularity keeps swinging every couple of weeks? Get my point?

by calm down Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:17

Thank you Pete for making my argument for me.

All the responses you list were made in the context of a referendum to end, not immigration, but a specific and notorious immigration-scam.

The list of alleged responses (exclusively taken from the 80% who voted for the amendment) add up to more that 100%, so there must have been considerable duplication -hardly a scientific or rigerous survey, but hardly surprising given the IT's off-centre views on immigration issues).

In any event, legal immigrants of every race creed and colour coming to Ireland are overwhelmingly of the opinion that they have received a positive and welcoming response from the indiginous population.

Two years ago the Irish Times ran a series of articles in which immigrants gave their views of Ireland and of how they had been received by Irish people. The responses were varied. Very significantly (and despite the attempts of the IT interviewer to lead the interviewees towards other answers) the division of opinion was not on lines of race but on status. Legal immigrants of every colour reported a positive response. Illegal immigrants reported otherwise. It is quite obvious that the Irish people are well clued-in to the realities and have made the distinction between people who come here legally and the scam-merchants..

Interestingly, a Nigerian immigrant who came here legally recently praised the Irish people for their welcoming attitude and decried the bogus asylum-seekers and scam-merchants who he felt had undermined the reputation of all Nigerians.

by Its magic! Tue Sep 19, 2006 18:12

Please appreciate this idea of concept.

http://scripts.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/regularvo...=2376

by curious Tue Sep 19, 2006 17:25

I stand for reality and much as I have little time for Rabbitte he was reaching for a realistic approach in contradistinction to the wooly ideas of many in Labour, SF etc who are intellectually incapable of grasping the fact that mass immigration is BAD for the Irish working class. Bad economically and bad socially - not because of the individual nature of the immigrants but because it further takes away from the quality of life in the big cities and towns. The sensible approach therefore is to impose controls on the numbers of migrant workers coming in. Just as there ought to be controls on the movement of capital.

Finally, what will happen if/when the economy no longer needs migrant labour and unemployment starts to rise? Are you banking on some Peter Pan scenario in which the working class unites together and creates a socialist revolution? We both know what is more likey to happen and if in any doubt just look at Paris last year and across the Irish Sea.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Sep 19, 2006 17:17

I am sorry I was mistaken about you curious...I thought we had agreed on a couple of points and here you go again and spoil it all. I thought we had shared some basic points...wrong I was again.
To go into the argument proper...

One, think back, pls if you can, into the history of this divided country. Think back from the time of the famine and on...think of the fact that there are more Irish of the first, second and third generation living abroad than here...why did they decide to go? Leave the land, leave their families, leave their village and get onto the ships.....our working class brothers and sisters know well, understand well, appreciate well that history of ours. And what immigration has meant for the Irish economy and Irish politics. If you can't think that much back - ask....people will tell you.
Two, in a globalised economy, in the era of the Empire, in a continent where big capital invades every nook and cranny, including culture and social relations - and these are facts we agree I hope - to argue an inverted 'labour' protectionism is to be fully in the domain of the RIGHT. These are the arguments of the extreme right in the '30s, the neocons against Latin and Irish workers today in the US, and here in our land, the arguments of some Labourites - a- la - Rabbitte...arguments which have nothing to do with the Left.
Three, the fact that such right wing ideas are beginning to take root inside the class is also a sad fact. Instead of looking at the real causes of falling relative wages (while profits increase), of deteriorating health, education and transport system, instead of looking at what Irish capital and State are doing and where the surplus goes...some working class people look and focus instead at the easiest and most vulnerable sectors of the people...they blame the immigrants.

It is to the honour of the Left, the RAR, the IPSC and the anti-war movement in this country, small and weak as we are, that we are not going to fall prey to this bull. So, curious, sort your ideas out. If you read carefully my message above, you will get a good view of where I and our comrades of the Left stand. The key question is - where do you belong sunshine?

by curious Tue Sep 19, 2006 16:35

Interesting that you should use the IBEC "Oh the economy needs them" line to justify mass immigration by workers from the accession states. It is a valid argument if you are a gombeen employer but hardly a valid argument for someone of the left? And certainly not one that would get you much of a hearing from the majority of working class people, particualrly those who are losing out through displacement, falling relative wages (all vindicated by CSO last week) and the worsening of conditions, including the destruction of union membership.

by pete - and repeat Tue Sep 19, 2006 16:02

"there is no question that the vast majority of Irish people welcome our new legal immigrants (the overwhelming majority)."

RTÉ Exit Poll

by calm down Tue Sep 19, 2006 15:57

McDowell never said that asylum-seekers were coming here in 'floods' or any suchlike. Due to McDowell imposing sensible controls at points of entry, a reform of the process for determining right to asylum (by fast-tracking applicants from the countries which were the source of most abusers of the system), and *'displacement'' , the number of asylum-seekers, particularly from the aforesaid sources, has fallen dramatically.

This is all around good news for the indiginous population, and, even more so, for our very welcome legal immigrants from the EU and beyond.

The lessons learned from other countries tell us that there is nothing that promotes inter-communal ill-feeling and fosters racism more than uncontrolled and illegal immigration - such as the late unlamented 'Irish baby scam'. The only people who profit from immigration scams and illegality are the tiny groups of nutters at the opposing extremes of the immigration debate who each in their own way use the ensuing mess as justification for their unrepresentative views.

there is no question that the vast majority of Irish people welcome our new legal immigrants (the overwhelming majority). There is also no question either that the vast majority also believe that asylum-cheats and other illegals (thankfully, now a miny minority) should be deported asap.

As for multi-culturalism, assimilation etc. - Ireland is a liberal democracy. It shares a distinctive value-system with the other liberal democracies. That value-system is not (as some people mistakenly believe) 'anything goes'. Our value system, influenced by the Judeo-Christian ethic, and the 'enlightenment', puts a high value on freedom of expression, is liberal in the area of sexual and private morality, and asserts the autonomy and equality of women. While we welcome diversity of cultural expression, if your social preferences are for female genital mutilation, bride-burning, forced arranged marriages, and the like, or if you think you are entitled to visit or threaten violence on people who slight your religion, you should really go elsewhere. In fact, we might even 'persecute' you if you perpetrate some of these practices.

*By 'displacement' I mean that the new legal immigrants have displaced the incentive to employ illegal immigrants.

by fraud Tue Sep 19, 2006 15:39

We have people like you saying they are stealing our jobs

please stop saying things i did not say, maybe this is your opinion, i dont know but it is not mine, can you point out where exactly i said any such thing?

As far as scammers and fraud go please support your allegation that it is all from Korea. This is quite simply incorrect, it is actually well known that Nigeria is a fraudsters paradise

please again point out where i said that all nigerians are fraudsters??

you are very good at arguing a point that noone actually mentions to support your arguement

less of the straw man approach please and stop calling everyone who argues with your points rascist and stupid

by The Truth Tue Sep 19, 2006 15:28

Since bah you are so knowledgable perhaps you could tell us how many immigrants are on the dole? Considering immigrants, by and large, are excluded from receiving the dole how could the vast majority be on the dole? Of course they aren't. We have people like you saying they are stealing our jobs and then you come on saying that they are all on the dole, it is the same old racist bollox, and your not a racist, give us a break.

And as for Nigeria being the fraud capital of the world, anybody with a bit of knowledge of the net knows that the vast majority of the email frauds actually come from Korea, but of course people lacking in even basic knowledge can keep on posting shite. Nigeria has a corrupt government, that is true but to suggest that all Nigerians are fraudsters is nothing than pure unadulturated racism.

by omg - FRAUD SQUAD Tue Sep 19, 2006 15:06

So, curious, if our guests were to a s s i m i l a t e with our people and values on the issue of fraud, what would you reckon the figure would be?

They allready do

Nigeria is the fraud capital of the world, or didnt you know that??

by bah Tue Sep 19, 2006 15:01

proving how idiotic you people really are

Indeed if you disagree then just call people names.

Listen, I meant immigrants that have been accepted, my bad, but you show your attitude by name calling and accusing somebody who disagrees with you IS A RASCIST

Of course if you dont agree YOU ARE RASCIST

NAHNAHDENAHNA

ffs grow up

by The Truth Tue Sep 19, 2006 13:51

Once again the moronic racists post utter diatribe. Bah asylum seekers are not allowed to work, it is ILLEGAL for them to work. Of course if you even had the slightest knowledge around this issue you would know that, instead we have nothing but the most idiotic racist crap coming from you. Stunning posts from all the anti immigrants, proving how idiotic you people really are.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Sep 19, 2006 13:16

A kind soul who is following our debate, curious, just e-mailed me a recent article in the Irish Times (Sept 14th) . Read carefully please the relevant part of it:

"It is somewhat ironic then that this week should also have seen us initiated into the mysteries of Operation Gull, designed to target social welfare fraud committed by foreign nationals. It was reported by this newspaper that (unnamed) sources close to the investigation were "staggered" by the level of abuses uncovered.

And the amounts of money involved in these shocking crimes? Over the two years of Operation Gull, it is estimated at €6.6 million. Certainly a substantial sum, but what was not mentioned was that it represents something less than one percent of the €800 million total fraud within the social welfare system for the same period. This of course is fraud perpetrated entirely by Irish people.

While it is always valid to highlight fraud, whoever commits it, it will be interesting to see how the current attention on foreigners in this regard will play into the wider political agenda."

So, curious, if our guests were to a s s i m i l a t e with our people and values on the issue of fraud, what would you reckon the figure would be?

by bah Tue Sep 19, 2006 13:13

And, finally, is the issue of the tens of thousands of Irish illegals in the US related to what we're talking about here?

NO because they assimulate, unlike africaaners or whatever else strolls through Irelands doors, the vast majority do not work as they do not speak the language and are a drain on the states resources

you got proof that the majority of asylum seekers work, id be happy to see it.

But most of all DUE PROCESS must be applied, you people want to let every single person with a sob story in to ireland to create the banana republic, because that is where it will go.

Assimulation michael without it the creation of ghettos where people speak a foreign language, feel isolated and therefore withdraw further from the society, before you know it you have jihad nuts roaming around Ireland

No affinity to Ireland
No Loyalty to Ireland
No respect for Irish culture and traditions

Their kids are brought up to speak a foreign language, NO ASSIMULATION michael

It creates massive massive issues in the future

Its the reason other countries have RIOTS michael
To let Ireland down the same path is stupid and shortsited

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:53

Well well - how great it is to clarify things one by one....it seems we are both against western/Christian/ white colonialism - both in its historical form (see above) as well as, I presume, its more modern variant : see Palestine, see Afghanistan and Iraq, see Costa Blanca and Costa Brava and the Algarve and Crete and Santorini....and parts of Prague and the Black Sea coast of Bulgaria.

Now to the sustainability issue...which goes hand in hand with the argument of assimilation. Or does it? Do we agree that while the EU talks of 'free movement of people and capital', the emphasis is clearly on the latter. New markets in the new entrants, new markets in Bulgaria and Rumania and, especially, Turkey for capital and goods. People, particularly working people moving west....not so clear!!

Sustainability...pls clarify. Are we talking of housing, jobs, land, health, education,. transport, welfare or what? Everything I read so far shows that incoming labour benefits the economy greatly and there is huge space for more...and why not allow workers awaiting for decision to work? Why imprison them in hostels with a few € a day...? Are you happy, curious, with the transparency of the process put in place by McD?

And, finally, is the issue of the tens of thousands of Irish illegals in the US related to what we're talking about here? Or are we going to argue exemption and the like?

by curious Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:34

You see there you go. You assume that I would defend western colonialists. I don't. No more than I defend people who come here on false pretences as asylum seekers. If some -one is genuinely fleeing repression - and I know people from African countries who are - then they should be allowed stay. If they are not - and again I know of people are certainly not - then they should be deported. Your problem is you beleive that everyone claiming asylum or otherwise finds their way here should be allowed stay. That is not sustainable.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:30

Like the French whites did in Algeria, Tunisia and Marocco, the Portuguese whites in Angola and Mozambique, the Dutch whites in South Africa, the Italian whites in Ethiopia and Somalia and the Brit whites in Kenya and Uganda...as well as the Russian whites in Estonia and Latvia as much as in Chechnya and Uzbekistan......is that what you mean by 'respecting local cultures'? Not to mention that other magnificent respect of local people by the Zionist State in Palestine......

You have some curious sense of history my friend....

And an Irish person buying property in Spain or Bulgaria or Dubai expecting profit and pleasure - is that the same process to a Lithuanian or a Libyan coming here to work and earn a living or an Iranian or a Nigerian fleeing from terror and looking for refuge? Curious sense of politics and process....

by Curious Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:19

If people do not wish to adapt to the country they decide to come to live in then they shouldn't come to it in the first place. End of. You would be exactly the type of person to whinge about "white" people going to live in Africa and refusing to take any notice of the local culture.

by MichaelY - iawm Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:16

Reading some of the racist and xenophobic stuff in this thread makes me absolutely sick. Here we are, congratulating ourselves for welcoming some of the most disreputable characters in the KClub this week - feeling proud and pretty that blood money is coming in and spending millions in disgusting ads about it. An Ireland of the Welcomes - indeed!!

And some nice people here having gone through the debate re: multiculturalism v integration have now introduced a new horrific concept: a s s i m i l a t i o n (mis-spelt in its original form but that's only a reflection of the mindset of the ranter). How does one expect an African or Asian or East European to assimilate? And to what may one ask? What are the specific parameters of assimilation? What specific characteristics of our proud nation would the person have to adopt for us to consider that the assimilation has been successful?

Would he or she have to dress in a particular way? Eat specific food? Shop in the consumer crazy malls? Go to Ratzinger's church three times a week? Think Bertie is a socialist? Think drinking Guinness is good for u? What exactly? Read the Indo or the Herald and believe what he/she reads? Think that arrogant spoofer Myers is a genius?

And if they don't assimilate - send them back!! 10 out of 10! I am sure that incredible Minister of Injustice is listening and taking notes. To follow.

by curious Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:13

No-one is disputing that the place is a kip. The question is should we be picking up the tab?

by truth Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:57

Ireland is not the dumping ground of African poor

Tis about time you looked closer to home and looked after IRISH poor

All immigrants MUST go through DUE PROCESS

If they fail they must be rejected, we cannot have carte blanche situation

if they come to our shores and are accepted they must try to assimulate
Non assimulaters must be deported

FULL STOP

by The truth Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:22

Some posters on this thread are suffering severe intellectual problems. We have one person saying how can they prove they have undergone FGM. Hmm let me see, how about getting a doctor to take a look at the mutilated woman. We also have miriam calling Nigeria a democratic country and persisting in ignoring all the evidence. Miriam quite clearly has her head in the sand and will only listen to Nigerian government false propaganda and ignoring everybody else, be they NGO's, The World Health Organisation, The US State department report, etc, etc, etc. Miriam you truely are blind to what you don't want to hear and instead expect us to blindly believe the Nigerian government who are constantly criticised for their anti democratic and brutal nature. What next from you, you are going to talk about a Nigerian soap opera and tell us that it prove's Nigeria is a safe place, utter nonsense. Our own Government does not even recognise Nigeria as a safe country, only you.

by chris murray - unmans Mon Sep 18, 2006 21:02

or female genital mutilation, is a cultural and religious hangover from a patriarchial belief that
a woman should not have an erection ( clitoral) . It is prevalent in some societies and often perpetrate it on their daughters so that they will be perceived as fitting in-a cultural normative.

It has a political base also and a base in the act of possession, in that women often infibulated, were forceably 'opened' on their wedding night, it has repurcussions for the birthing process and causes trauma, thus verifying it is a matter of a qualifyed trauma counsellor. also victims of botched genital mutilation would walk in a certain way- given that often the 'operation' are carrie dout with bits of glas or rusty knives.

I suppose not being able to read too much on the issue that You should request that a victim of FGM would address the issue, but I imagine that it would be difficult.

by The unbelieveables Mon Sep 18, 2006 20:27

What about America?? Thats not a corrupt state too? The fact is that we cannot afford to take in all of the worlds poor. You are in the extreme nonsence when you lie about instances where all Nigerians coming here are supposedly all genuine asylum seekers. They're not all real cases. Even if they were, there would only be a certain amount we would be able to admit anyway. Your nonsence about fgm repeated threads, as seen before, says nothing about an asylum seeker being real or bogus. How's an asylum seeker going to prove that they suffered from fgm?

by Chris Murray - The Unmanageables Mon Sep 18, 2006 19:47

Tanaiste and Minister for Justice , Equality and Law reform is back off his hols.
He has secured government Approval for the Immigration, Residence and
Protection Bill 2006.

It was announced on 6th september 2006.

The details are in http://www.justice.ie
(Press release dated 6th August 2006)

by Miriam O' Keefe - Miriam Mon Sep 18, 2006 19:28

An Independent Nigerian perspective.
Perhaps the following Social Study undertaken by a Nigerian national may help to throw some additional light on the subject as to why Ireland has become a most favored destination. This particular study was done some time ago and the numbers of Nigerian asylum seekers arriving here since then would in the meantime have also increased significantly.

http://www.africamigration.com/archive_01/j_komolafe_se...g.htm

Might I also suggest that anybody wishing to understand some wider truth about Nigerian affairs should tune in occasionally to Sky Channel 148 BEN TV
For example every Sunday evening starting 18:00 hours, there is usually a special program broadcast directly from Ireland celebrating Nigerian people residing here.
For all those who have an appreciation of African music and art, it a must!
BEN is a commercial Nigerian TV station, free from any Govt interference. The weekly show which is broadcast from Ireland on Sunday evenings is entitled “Happy as Larry” and appears sponsored mainly by a Money Transfer company, which guarantees same day delivery of funds anywhere in Nigeria.
As a fan of African music I tune in on many occasions and while the station frequently examines current affairs issues of concern to Nigerians, at no time have I ever heard the issues of political persecution, or female genital mutilation ever being raised.
Yet according to certain individuals on this site, both the Nigerian Govt and Nigerian people in their home country constantly behave in the most brutal ways towards each other. I believe this to be either a misinformed opinion or a slanderous attack upon a democratic nation of 130 million people.

by The Truth Mon Sep 18, 2006 18:38

There are NGO's in the countries you can ask, not the state that is accused. I have never heard anything more ridiculous than what you spouted. It is idiotic in the extreme. What do you think they would say? Yes we admit to torturing him and jailing his family, get real. The Nigerian State is one of the most corrupt in the world and you expect us to take you seriously?

by LaLa Mon Sep 18, 2006 18:19

"fleeing persecution from a State we should ask that State whether it is true or not" :

Yes we should definitely start there. It makes sense to start there, the people in question might well be convicted criminals or face charges in their original country and if so will tell any sort of lie to get to residency in Ireland.

It is up to the authorities here to investigate their story and decide on a rational basis on whether to let them stay or not.

This idea that we should allow anyone in with a half baked tale of persecution is not what the population here wants.

by The Truth Mon Sep 18, 2006 18:06

This is ridiculous, we have Miriam using a state propaganda sheet to back her up ignoring amnesty international and the US State department reports. Next she will be quoting Pravda to tell us how great the USSR was.

We then have La La living in La La land, according to this particular poster if somebody claims they are fleeing persecution from a State we should ask that State whether it is true or not. Great idea LaLa however even a child would know that no State would admit to persecuting somebody. Why would they? a State always tries to cover up it's failings and devious undertakings.

by d'other Mon Sep 18, 2006 17:58

Fair play for the work on this. Its not too clear here however if there was a deportation or people were simply held in preparation of a future one. Some clarifaction on this would be good. As this story currently reads, the Indy readership including me are left to believe there was a deportation when this may not have been the case. This lack of clarity does little for the anti-deportation argument or Indy either.

by LaLa Mon Sep 18, 2006 17:57

From Miriam's link :

"the only plausible explanation is that those seeking asylum are lazy and not prepared to reach out for a living in the country. In fact, it may not be out of place to state that the permissive asylum conditions of some countries have served as encouragement for this kind of situation"

The sincerity of a lot of people seeking asylum here is in serious question. If they say they are not wellcome in their countries of origin then the authorities have an obligation to find out why and if their motives are in doubt to get rid.

by Gaz B -(A)- - wsm (pers cap) Mon Sep 18, 2006 17:54

The Tide paper is a state run paper and was established by decree. "The Editorial Policy, therefore, tends to support every issue that would be of interest to the government ". Government appointees sit on its editorial groups etc..hardly objective

by Page Mon Sep 18, 2006 17:51

Interesting article.

http://www.tribune.ie/login.tvt?_scope=TribuneFTF&id=75...BCAT=

by Miriam O'Keefe Mon Sep 18, 2006 17:36

An interesting Nigerian perspective on Ireland’s Asylum System.

A Nigerian friend of mine with whom I worked with for a number of years sent me the attached link below to a Newspaper Article.
It provides a worthwhile insight into how most decent Nigerian people now view the general denigration of their country and of their fellow countrymen, by the few.
It makes worthwhile reading for those who may tend to believe that Ireland’s asylum system is either unfair or biased.

http://www.thetidenews.com/article.aspx?qrDate=07/19/20...image

by The Truth Mon Sep 18, 2006 17:32

First of all the UNHCR has also attacked our asylum system for not allowing asylum seekers to work and for also lacking any transparency, facts you ommitted from your post. Also just because it is better than other EU countries, it doesn't mean that it is a good system. It is completely lacking in transparency, the cases are accepted at random, and decisions are still not published despite several court rulings.

Also your figures of acceptance are only at the first interview, the acceptance rate at the 2nd stage is over 30% and more are accepted at humanitarian. Facts that you also have ommitted.

Also it is completely false to suggest that all refused asylum seekers are still here. It is complete nonsense. The gardai figure for illegal immigrants in Ireland is around 6,000 (these include people who have never claimed asylum). They have publicly stated that most asylum seekers who don't get deported leave the country. Far more asylum seekers leave the country voluntarily rather than through deportation. Facts again which you have ommitted.

As for the highest volume being from Nigeria, Nigeria is the biggest African country containg over 20% of the African people. It is also a completely unsafe country and is attacked each year in both the Amnesty International annual report and by the US State departments yearly review. It has appaling human rights records, regularly jails opposition politicians, has extra judicial killings and also has an FGM rate, according to the WHO of at least 50% of the female population, although the WHO also warns that this figure could be more than 60%. It is no wonder that people flee for their lives from this country. Facts, of course, which you have completely ommitted.

by Lassie Mon Sep 18, 2006 17:05

Miriam,
I agree with what you said not because I'll agree for the sake of agreeing but because those facts surrounding the myths and truths about our asylum system were proven time and time again by our Government. A good point, why don't the RAR just say that our asylum system should be a means of attracting all of the worlds poor, whenever they decide to come here? Honesty is a good man's trade.

by Miriam O'Keefe Mon Sep 18, 2006 16:54

In future I suggest that people should check their facts more thoroughly before submitting misleading statements concerning this country’s poor record on asylum seekers.

(1) Since the late ‘90’s, Ireland according to available UNHCR statistics, has received approx.75,000 applications for asylum to-date. Prior to that period, the annual number of asylum applications lodged in Ireland could usually be measured in the hundreds.

(2) During that same period and as measured by the UN on a per capita basis, total asylum applications submitted in the Republic were one of the highest in the EU.(about 3 X times more than asylum applications (on a per capita basis) lodged in any of the big 5 i.e. France, Germ, Italy Spain, or UK.)

(3) Fewer than 10% of the total 75,000 asylum applications submitted here during this period were found subsequently to be genuine, based upon UNHCR guidance and best practices.

(4) Almost one third of total applications (21,375) have been submitted by one single national group (Nigerian nationals).

(5) The Irish asylum system was praised as being one the fairest and as a model for other EU countries by the UNHCR itself.

(6) But the bottom line is that even despite the fact that (approx 80%) of all asylum applications submitted in Ireland were eventually judged to have been without foundation, less than 5% of all failed asylum seekers have ever been deported from this country. Most remain here anyway usually on some other basis.

What is RAR’s policy for the Irish asylum system? Should it simply become a de facto resettlement package for the entire worlds most needy and impoverished peoples, then why not state this openly and honestly perhaps on RAR’s own site. After the appropriate tax costing etc have been calculated, perhaps it may prove to be an overwhelmingly popular vote catcher in the next Gen election.
Why single out and pour scorn upon our elected minister responsible for the administration of our asylum system that has already been applauded for its fairness and integrity by the UNHCR. itself.

http://www.justice.ie/80256E01003A02CF/vWeb/pcJUSQ6D6ER3-en

by Reporter Mon Sep 18, 2006 15:33

"given the level of false alarms in the past, if this is an actual deportation?"

There have indeed been false alarms in the past .There have also been numerous unreported deportations.

Late friday night individuals where taken without notice from Mosney to undisclosed destination.

Mosney houses many Irish citizens who`s parents have yet to be granted leave to stay or right to work .

If not deported on the night a deportation would seem imminent .

Any further news on situation will be posted .

by ideasman Mon Sep 18, 2006 14:25

Who pays the cost to get ride of these unwanted people ? Am guessing the State.
Would be a good idea to get settled immigrants to foot the bill for deportations where the state is out of pocket.

by The Truth Mon Sep 18, 2006 14:24

Yes 1992 was a massive year for asylum numbers, get a grip on yourself Cara and don't post until you know what you are talking about. McDowell refuses to debate with groups because he is consistently found to be lying. And also there is no such thing as a bogus asylum seeker it is a term used to create hatred, a failed asylum seeker is someone who's application was turned down due to the narrow definitions of the Geneva convention about who should get protection. There is no point debating people like you, people who are absolutely clueless, who do no research and just regurgitate McDowell's press statements as if they were any way true. There are plenty of sheep around like you.

by Cara B Mon Sep 18, 2006 14:10

"The numbers of asylum seekers coming here drops every year"

What about the number of asylum seekers who have been coming here in total since 1992? I don't believe what McDowell says all the time either, because even he is failing to do the job that any Minister for Justice should be doing.

"He also consistently refuses to have public debates with anti-deportation activists"

Maybe theres a reason for this. Perhaps theres no use in arguing with a group who calls for an amnesty for all asylum seekers, even if they are bogus asylum seekers.

by Caoimhe - Residents Against Racism (pers cap) Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:22

'ireland needs to tighten up on immigration, we are far to soft and are becoming a magnet, our border controls are a joke'

Actually hmmz, Ireland had a tiny number of asylum seekers both last year and this year ( in fact 2000-2002 were the only years that we had significant numbers of people seeking refuge here, and even then that was small at 10,000 per year), in comparision to the rest of Europe. In 2005, a total of 263,210 people sought asylum in Europe. 4,320 (1.64%) of these sought asylum in Ireland while 7,770 sought asylum in Cyprus and 5,440 in Poland.

The numbers of asylum seekers coming here drops every year. Considering the thousands of migrant workerswe need to come here every year just to keep our fat economy ticking oiver nicley for us ( presumably you dont want them to stop coming or else crash, there goes the economy), the number of asylum seekers is coming here is tiny. Asylum seekers make up a tiny proportion of overall immigration into Ireland.

Try not to believe the crap that McDowell puts out in the media about there being 'floods' of people coming here. Its simply not true. Notice that he never actually uses the figures to back himself up. He also consistently refuses to have public debates with anti-deportation activists. Why do u think that is?

by hmmz Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:14

Its more than likely that these ones had applied for asylum in a different country also and as such under the new EU rules where sent back to the origional point of entry to have their applications dealt with there.

ireland needs to tighten up on immigration, we are far to soft and are becoming a magnet, our border controls are a joke

the vast majority here say let them all in, but the harsh truth is that Ireland neithier has the infrastructure or resourches to deal with a large amount of immigration, we are a small nation and we are allready groaning under the strain. Unless you provide answers to deal with the lack of social resourches currntly availible to Irish poor, then you waste my time, having a let em all in approach is just blatently absurd

As it is Irish poor can barely get accomodation, where do people propose to house all these immigrants? the state services are allready under massive pressures

thank god the government is finally waking up

by Madam K Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:00

The whereabouts of Asylum. seekers taken from Mosney are still as yet to be confirmed.At this stage it cannot be confirmed that their was a deportation on the night. If not then these individual will be currently held in custody awaiting deportation .

Furher undates will be posted .

by Michael Martin Sun Sep 17, 2006 13:27

Mosney used to be a holiday centre for Irish families. With the refugees gone now, let's hope the centre will be reopened very soon for all the people to enjoy once more!

by chris murray - the unmanageables Sat Sep 16, 2006 22:49

The right-wing government in France did it in the morning, after the men had gone to work.
The ghetto fires were affecting their vote majority.

The link to the mass eviction in France is at the end of this article.

(attached as comment to this link):- http://www.indymedia.ie/article/72995.

In Ireland, people are detained in facilities for processing through the
asylum system. everyone has seen the documentaries on TG4, etc. This centre
has a lot of women and children.

Mr Mc Dowell is garnering his position as a'leader', after the opposition allowed
him to defuse the Laffoy judgement, introduce draconian sex-laws and
ask a female leader of his party to' step aside' before the next election.
sure waking women and kids at 10.30pm at night and deporting
is like taking candy from a baby after all that.

Creating leadership is about the politics of perception and Mr Mc Dowell
wants to be perceived as no- nonsense......

by matt Sat Sep 16, 2006 21:56

Your blind faith in the system stands as an example to us all tony. If only we were all like you I'm sure the world would be a much better place...
I believe every deportation is a mistake and I'm not talking about the extradition of criminals here. But even if you don't believe this how can you have so much faith in a system that until recently refused to publish the reasons for ANY of it's decisions(and now only publishes the ones it chooses to), a system that is completely unaccountable to the public? Surely you'd like to have some facts you could back your argument up with....I know I'd sure like it if you had. But you don't. You're talking from somewhere located a bit lower down than your mouth.
The fact is that the problem with most of these 'failed' asylum seekers is not that they are criminals or bogus (whatever that means)...it's that the system is extremely racist, it's that they're not 'us',theyre the evil THEM...it's that the government like to spin fairytales where they are the wizard of oz going to keep us safe from the evil Bogus asylum seeker whereas they are really just sad old men for the most part pulling strings behind a curtain and enjoying a lovley pay packet... it's that it's not politically correct for a first world rich country to let people from poor mostly third world countries come and enjoy how the 'first world' gets to live....after all if the rich countries suddenly had to accept that they were rich BECAUSE third world countries aren't where would it end....why we might have to make reparations for all the exploitation...we might have to let them have a say in how the IMF and the World Bank operated (and might insist that these institutions base their policies on economics instead of political ideology)....we might have to accept that we aren't better than them....that they don't actually deserve to live in abject poverty, that they're not all criminals and fakers and frauds but are actually pretty much the same as ourselves...we might even have to put an end to exploitaion of cheap labour and stop supporting dictators that happen to be friendly to us (while shooting and torturing and abusing the people they are responsible for)......we here in Ireland might even have to( cover your ears children) take a stand against America....oh but not's get ahead of ourselves...it is after all much easier to pull the wool nice and snugly down over your eyes and pretend that it's not children and mothers and fathers and ordinary men and women that are being dragged from our country but horrible criminals who are really out to get you....oh yes stand up and be proud of the GNIB and the lovely mister mcdowell who are there to protect us . Where would we be without them? Good work indeed

by Noise Hacker Sat Sep 16, 2006 20:24

.

Lithuanian-Luganda-Mandarin-Marathi-Mongolian-Nepali-Pahari-Pashto-Patwa-Polish-Portuguese-Punjabi

Romanian-Russian-Serbo Croat-Sign Language-Sindhi-Singalese-Slovak-Somali-Spanish-Swahili-Sylheti-Swedish

Tagalog-Tamil-Telugu-Thai-Tigrinya-Turkish-Twi-Urdu-Vietnamese-Visayan-Woloff-Yoruba

Politicians Use Immigrants As Scapegoats – DON’T BUY THEIR BULLSHIT

/// IF YOU’RE NOT ANGRY, YOUR’RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION ///

by Noise Hacker Sat Sep 16, 2006 20:19

.

Everyone is Welcome in Ireland

No Borders – No Nations. No Human is Illegal – For the Free Movement of People.

Afgan-Albanian-Amharic-Arabic-Armenian-Ashante-Bengali-Berber-Bravenesse-Bulgarian-Cantonese-Creo

Czech-Danish-Dari-Dutch-Fante-Farsi-French-GA-German-Greek-Gujarati-Hakka

Hebrew-Hindi-Hungarian-Japanese-Italian-Kicongo-Korean-Kirundi-Kurdish-Dutchi-Lingala

by wilbert Sat Sep 16, 2006 17:58

what were the irish during the famine?
fakers? criminals? bogus?
nope, economic migrants.
who cares if these people will suffer because of hunger or torture when the go back? Shouldn't matter a damn.

by Tony Sat Sep 16, 2006 13:43

anyone who the state is deporting has absolutely no case and they fully deserve to be deported, fact, t too many doo gooders as usual, the genuine refugees are a victim of these bogus aslyum seekers

by Joe Moore Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:46 mapuche at eircom dot net 087-2994796

What happened last night and early this morning is reminiscent of events in Centrel Europe in the '30s and '40s. People rounded up to be forceably deported. The basis on which people are selected, their nationality and skin colour.
It is now time for all anti-racists to unite and oppose all deportations and campaign to defeat the forthcoming Immigration Bill.
The current government is pursuing policies akin to those of Isreal and apartheid South Africa.

by Reporter - . Sat Sep 16, 2006 01:08

There is a people carrier and a bunch of cops.
They have located the holding centre where the people are being held in the airport.
The raid began at 10.30pm. No confirmation if children have been removed, but
the deportation would have disturbed sleeping kids. There are Gardai everywhere.
The flight will go out late, as they like to do it 'under cover of darkness'.

Photos coming.