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Anti-Semitic "anti-war protest" in Cork

category cork | rights and freedoms | news report author Monday August 14, 2006 13:29author by Paul McAndrewauthor email paul at queer dot ie Report this post to the editors

Anti-Semitic "anti-war protest" in Cork
There were children's shoes wired to the Synagogue in Cork, yesterday, presumeably in protest against Israel's horrific attack on Lebanon.

While it is absolutely neccessary to oppose Israel's U.S. backed war of terror, synagogues are not an appropriate target for protest.
It intimidates Jewish communities and also feeds into the myth that anti-Zionism and opposition to Israeli policies and atrocities is anti-Semitism.
Please write to newspapers and call radio shows, as an anti-war activist, condemming this anti-Semitic, racist incident.

author by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Irelandpublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 13:42Report this post to the editors

I fully agree that this anti-Semite action should be disowned by the anti-war movement. Certainly, Anti-War Ireland has no time for disgraceful incidents such as this and I know of no anti-war activist who would support it. Our issue is with the brutal actions of the Israeli state and not with the Jewish people. It is utterly wrong to assume that all Jews support Zionism or/and the murderous assault on the Palestinian and Lebanese people.

I suspect that this gesture is the work of one person and I can state as a fact that anti-war activists reject the anti-Semitic views that underlie the incident.

author by Skeptic...publication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 13:43author address EnnisReport this post to the editors

I agree that a synagogue is not the right place, Israel is a country, and Judaism is a religion, one has an army and nuclear weapons and embassies the other is a belief system. I'll skip the bit where I comment on the Lebanon bombardment, because what I really want to comment on is the lack of details in your report.
Are you talking about ONE pair of shoes? Ten pairs of shoes?
Was there a message? Was there fake blood? Writing?
You say "presumably" in protest.... is it not clear? Why do you interpret it as a protest? I'm questioning your journalistic standards here, not your politics.

I have found pairs of shoes tied around the top of my fence... on it's own I wouldn't call it a protest, just kids messing about. have you never seen shoes hanging from phone lines? Is it a protest against eircom?
Our local priest finds stuff dumped in his garden, same as I do... but it's more likely people with feck all consideration for their neighbour than with a grudge...

I'd want a bit more corroberation before I go jumping to conclusions. Might just be that some Cork kid had his shoes taken by bigger kids that hung them up... Or is there something else that you didn't mention that would convince anyone otherwise? If there was, then there is a case for showing solidarity with the Cork Jewish community to stave off a knee jerk anti-Jewish backlash... if not, then don't play Chicken-Little...

author by Fintan Lane - AWIpublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 13:46Report this post to the editors

I know Paul and I have no doubt that he is telling the truth. I still suspect, however, that this incident was the work of one misguided individual.

author by ali la pointepublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 13:53Report this post to the editors

I know there are one or two sad characters in Cork of this goosestepping ilk. This sounds like just the sort of thing they would do.

author by Skeptic...publication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 13:54Report this post to the editors

I'm not saying he's being untruthful... I'm just saying that from the short report he wrote, one might conclude that he's misinterpretting events. It might be that he did see something that is obviously anti-semitic, but he just didn't describe it properly... or if all he saw is one pair of kids shoes... (he doesn't say lots, several, or whatever) then it might not be anything to get alarmed about.

Like I said, I'm not arguing politics or denying the Holocaust, just asking for better clarity. I tried ringing the Synagogue myself to ask what happened, and express solidarity, but I'm having problems with my phone.
If you or Paul have a minute to find out, or post better details, then I'd be happier.

author by Paul McAndrewpublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 14:04author email paul at queer dot ieReport this post to the editors

A good friend of mine saw the shoes, yesterday and tried to remove them, but they were firmly attatched with wire and a padlock, and he couldn't get them off. There were about a dozen of them.
-Paul

author by Pat OSullivan. - Cork Alliance Against Warpublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 14:13Report this post to the editors

The Anti War movement - and the various organisations who fight for Palestenian rights in this country - have always been meticulous in distinguishing between their condemnation of the actrocities of the Israeli state and Zionist ideology on the one hand, and fact that Zionism is not representative of the Jewish people of the world.

Given the widely reported statistics indicating that almost half of those killed in the attacks on Lebanon have been children, the symbolism of the use "children shoes" on the Synagogue wall would not have been lost on those who carried out this action. This is almost certainly the work of those who wish to pursue a racist agenda and in doing so attempt to damage the work of genuine anti war activists. Must be condemmed.

Well done to Paul for higligthing.

author by Chris Murray - The Unmanageablespublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 14:31Report this post to the editors



I have seen three or four posts , ( possibly more) which are , if not
anti-semitic( btw: semitic people include arabs) at the very least the
language has been ill-thought out, divise and incendiary.

Two of those comments were from a represenatative organisation that
should know better.

One of the problems with media -led wars and this is-
is that it is easier to manipulate the feelings of the readership and create
contexts for managing-or understanding the situation at a national level.
It's called manipulation.

Anti -war as we have stated in the action on Hiroshima commeroration
is the ability to stand above vested interests and in solidarity with the
victims of war- which include the jewish people, as well as the Palestinian,
Lebanese and other victims of beligerence.

Using the language of hatred, is not anti-war, it increases the divisions and
muddies the water. The language chosen to headline the issue of war
has to be careful and unemotive.

btw: just saw this so - as the Unmanageables are comprised of individuals
in many organisations I do not seek to represent their views.

author by redjadepublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 15:18Report this post to the editors

'I have seen three or four posts , ( possibly more) which are , if not
anti-semitic( btw: semitic people include arabs) at the very least the
language has been ill-thought out, divise and incendiary.
'

Chris, did you report these posts? or did you let them stand?

You, like anyone else, can report a post or comment on indymedia.ie that may be considered to be anti-semetic/anti-jewish etc.

Read the Editorial Guidelines for help
http://indymedia.ie/editorial

As one editor among others, I can say without a doubt or reservation that this indymedia is one of the least tolerant and most aggressively against anti-semetic/anti-jewish posts.

go read the crap that is posted and quickly hidden everyday from this site at
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-ireland...swire

The edit crew are all volunteers, we can't read everything posted on indymedia.ie, so we depend of readers (like you) to spot the violations and report them. We dont get them all - but i think we get most of them.

see somethign that violated the edit guidelines? click this lil icon.
see somethign that violated the edit guidelines? click this lil icon.

author by skeptic 2publication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 15:30Report this post to the editors

How do you attach shoes with "wire and a padlock" ? And now it's not an eyewitness report it's " a friend of mine saw them"

author by Chris Murray - The Unmanageablespublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 15:56Report this post to the editors



Since the outbreak of the war on 12/07/06. There have been numerous posts
justifiably angered at the visual imagery of war and the language has been
reactionary. Using the 'lil icon' , people can report , what they would consider
anti-semitic, racist etc.

I have done this on some stories , Including : 'Seig Heil Israel.' and objected to
incendiary language in others.

This is what we do (as contributors)-
some comments stay there to provoke discussion. some are removed.

The comment about the language of hatred and indy was based on the experience
which all regular contributors have of being capable of seeing something
that can be interpreted as facistic or incendiary- and reporting it.

This is the allusion in the comment regarding Indy's immunity from
anti-semitism and for the most part the crap has been removed.

And: there will be some crap during a war that is convulsing western society.

or * I can't be bothered anymore*

author by de Gaulpublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 16:16Report this post to the editors

There are people out there who will try to depoliticise the entire situation - including terrorists and the likes of the idiots responsible for attacks on Jews. Some of these peope may be just stupid, some of them may be being egged on by intelligence agents, some may be agents themselves, some may be racits/anti-semites. We must reject them all clearly and loudly.

author by Original Skepticpublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 16:32Report this post to the editors

I'm back. Thanks for the clarification Paul. I managed to get through to someone and they confirmed that there was an isolated incident. It sounds like somebody fairly daft alright, attempting to protest the Israeli government by putting footwear on an Irish Synagogue is very disjointed thinking. I don't think the Jewish community are shaking in their boots but it's good to let them know that other parts of society also care what happens to them. Sorry for being skeptical, but hope you took it as constructive criticism.

author by Hugh Harkin - IPSCpublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 19:53Report this post to the editors

The Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign deplores this ignorant and despicable act of vandalism.

The IPSC opposes racism in all its forms, including anti-Semitism. In our campaign for the rights of the Palestinian people we have many Jewish allies in Ireland, Israel and around the world, and we emphasise that this campaign has no place for demonisation of the Jewish community in Ireland.

We sincerely hope that this act will prove to have been an isolated incident rather than a harbinger of a racist blight that can in no way assist the cause of the Palestinian people.

Related Link: http://www.ipsc.ie
author by hmmmmmmmmmmm iosafpublication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 20:10Report this post to the editors

protesters threw shoes behind the police line into the courtyard of the Embassy.

I mentioned that as a "thought provoking" protest idea in a comment which I also (if i remember off the top of my head) declared "public opinion" exercises as being more valuable to us in this anti-war protest cycle than boycotts.
I observed that Ireland doesn't do enough trade with Israel and that many Israeli products in Ireland are actually Palestinian made (or grown).

I didn't mean by that comment to provoke a symbolic action against Cork's synagogue- I am very consistent in my dislike of 2 words "islamofascist" (used by Bush this last week) and "zionazi" & have written more about judaism on this website than anyother contributor, a religion I am very familiar with. But in comparison with previous incidents at synagogues in Ireland, this doesn't seem too serious. Let us remember when the jewish museum in Portobello Dublin got tagged up. That led to our own condemnation & I remember "noise hacker" photographing the yellow star of david ona blue background graffiti which he kept at the top of his previous "the writing is on the wall" series.

The core of us in indymedia ireland know there is always a danger that anti-semitism (understood as anti-jewishness) gets mixed up with anti-Israeli warfare or the apartheid state. & quite a few of us have identified careless and casual use of language and historical comparison as playing an important part.

In that same protest in Madrid where the shoes were thrown at the Israeli embassy, the police also had to keep seperated the 2 general factions assembled.
on the left (as the cops looked at it - & on the right as the Israelis saw it) were "us lot" flying palestinian flags, the lebanese flag, the 2nd spanish republican flag & as I noted posters produced the IAWM linked european block with the swastika pursuing that very lame "zionazi" thing.
On the other side of the police cordon were madrid's neo-nazi far right crew standing on the left as the Israelis in the embassy would have seem them. They didn't print up the same poster all over Europe, they have less money to play with then RBB... But they did bring along their very own swastika flags and also some franco era flags. Quite odd symbolism - franco's flag and the 2nd republic's flag & leftie and fascist swastikas all united to say rude things to the Israelis.

I can't tell you which side the "far right" or the "far left" threw the childrens' shoes at the Madrid embassy.

I just said a week ago that it was very thought provoking & something similar occuring in Cork seems to have provoked good thoughts from the crew.
:-)
I believe and advise everyone - that now the public opinion thing has been done as regards Lebanon, we still have the Palestinians to remember & Olmert's Knesset war post mortem to watch.
It's time though for us to push for a proper Irish UN involvement in the reconstruction of Lebanese infrastructure- before winter. They need water, electricity, houses &..............shoes.

author by skeptic2publication date Mon Aug 14, 2006 20:49Report this post to the editors

And apologies to PMcA if he feels they're needed for doubting his word. I still wonder though how you "chain shoes with a wire and padlock". How would you get the wire onto the padlock in a way that would be easy to get off? How do you get the shoes onto the wire in a way that wouldn't be easy to get off?

Zionazi and islamofascist aren't as unsupportable as some of you make out though. The Zionist ideal of a "homeland" for a self-identified pure (matrlineally descended) people and the early Zionist collaboration with the Nazis, the snatch squads whisking away political enemies to be held in tiny coffin-like dungeons covered in their own faeces, beaten, electrocuted and the massive prison camps (estimates of 10,000 prisoners) , the "punishment raids" on entire civilian populations lays them open quite clearly to charges of being similar to the Nazis.

Islamofascist is a bit weaker, but also has some backing. The ideal of a centralised state (with a religious as opposed to secular) leadership which perceives its influence extending to the morals of its citizens (and the concommitant demand that the citizens perceive themselves in relation to the state purely in terms of its single, dominant ideology (a strain of Islamic religion), the torture and abuse of "deviants" from this central pure-culture, again this lays Islamic theocracies open fairly to the description.

So, I think they're both useful enough terms as shorthand for all of the above. Trying to suppress the terms doesn't make it any clearer. If you want to make sure that secular, liberal people that live in Israel are not conflated with foaming-at-the-mouth-Zionists then publicise the long opposition to Zionism within Israel, the activities of Anarchists Agains the Wall, Gush Shalom, Mordechai Vanuunu etc. Similarly to show that not everyone that lives in Iran wants us to wear veils describe the student protest movement within Iran, the resurgence of calls for democracy, the twists of fate that led the last Ayatollah to power etc.

Denial of what we all know to be true doesn't help anything.

author by Williampublication date Tue Aug 15, 2006 01:08author address Seattle, USAReport this post to the editors

In certain sense this is quite simple. The core of the problem is the US--NOT Israel. If you are not focusing on the US --it's global economic and military strategy--you will fail. I suppose this might be hard to take for some since Ireland and the EU are definitely linked as "good cop" partners to the global and miltary strategy of the US. Anti-semitism is the socialism of fools--and Nazis. Israel and the so-called "Jewish lobby" as the puppet masters of the US is another version of the politics of fools. Noam Chomsky touched on the folly of this type of politics in a recent debate with James Petras.

Take this approach (focus on US Imperialism--yes, that's what it is) and the dead-end ranting about "blood-thirsty Israel " will be put to an end.

author by CBpublication date Tue Aug 15, 2006 16:05Report this post to the editors

The SWP's uncritical support for Hamas and Hezbollah at the Lebanon march recently and Boyd Barret shouting for intifada are stupid and senseless. All right thinking people deplore the treatment of the Palestinians and carpet bombing of the Lebanon but supporting right wing outfits like the two afforementioned that carry out terrorist bombing on ordinary Israeli workers should be condemned unequivicably.

author by Michael Martin - Heathen Libertarian Forumpublication date Tue Aug 15, 2006 18:00author email WG_Wotan at yahoo dot comReport this post to the editors

And where is the EVIDENCE demonstrating beyond any doubt that whoever placed or attached the shoes on the synagogue had anti-semitism, the current war, or any political agenda whatsoever, on his/her mind? All I can see here, provided the story is based on fact at all, is yet another sad incident of littering our streets and countryside with household trash.
Maybe the next time somebody throws an empty coke or Budweiser can over my boundary hedge, I may just turn this into a political sobstory as well!

Michael Martin

author by pat cpublication date Tue Aug 15, 2006 18:18Report this post to the editors

I can accept that whoever did this might not subjectively have intended it as an Anti-Semitic act; but the objective reality is that an attack on a Synagogue in this fashion is undoubtedly Anti-Semitic. If a Catholic Church was attacked after a Republican bombing would you say the action was Anti-Catholic or Anti-Republican?

author by Bryanpublication date Tue Aug 15, 2006 20:02Report this post to the editors

Big deal if people were out protesting outside the synagogue. People are entitled to protest (as part of their democratic right). Its a free country. We protest outside the U.S embassy too, so what is there new about protesting outside another building?? Did they damage the synagogue? No. Then whats wrong?

author by skeptic2publication date Tue Aug 15, 2006 21:43Report this post to the editors

If you want to protest the actions of the Israeli state then go protest outside the building that officially represents the Israeli state. A synagogue has no intrinsic link to the Israeli state and probably serves the religious needs of people that are citizens of the Irish state. Protesting outside a synagogue clearly anti-semitic as it conflates a religion with a state. Is it possible that you're just a straight up nazi? (In any event it'd be worth leftwing Cork activists checking up on the local boneheads and making sure they don't raise their ugly little heads above the parapet).

author by Bryanpublication date Tue Aug 15, 2006 22:34Report this post to the editors

Thank you for your lovely compliment. Just regarding Israel, its amazing how some are so obvious in their comments, when they let it slip, about the true secret aim of campaigning for financial and diplomatic support for Israel from within various western countries (America, britain, Ireland...) and who have the neck to draw double standards between this and the fact that a terrorist state (Israel) is allowed to murder over a thousand civillians with Impunity from the Western world.

author by skpetic2publication date Wed Aug 16, 2006 01:11Report this post to the editors

I thought you were a crazy anti-semitic nazi nut. Now I see you're just a crazy anti-semitic nut. No space for you people on the left or on the protests against the massacre of civilians by Israel. Bye bye now. Here's to a long-lasting Israel that prospers within the pre-1967 boundaries and stops attacking its neighbours.

author by iosaf the noble as I've said before with the wisdom of Hiram - less the cruelty of Solomon.:.publication date Wed Aug 16, 2006 15:36Report this post to the editors

1) we don't have a photo.
2) we don't have any group admitting the action.
3) we have third party statement that the synagogue itself called it an incident.

thus :-
we have all presumed that the shoes on the synagogue are "anti the Israeli war on Lebanon".

but equally ............
* we could presume that the shoes are what they often are:- a symbol of the Shoah and holocaust. At more than one camp which still remains open to visitors, piles of shoes may be seen.

* we have absolutely no reason to discount the possiblity that a member of the synagogues community put the shoes there just as much as a member of the anti-war group or a member of the far right. There is no evidence to point in any direction or discount any other.

_____________________________________________________

as for protesting places of worship : it is a nasty business which brings out racists. If people have forgotten what happened during the afghan hunger strike - another example : In late 2004 barcelona was shocked at daily and nightly noise protests by residents promptly backed up by racist groups at a small mosque. The Mosque occupied a shop under a block of flats, it was rented legally. The council had licensed it for public worship. But the residents objected - to muslims being downstairs, to the "noise" of prayers at midnight and dawm to "all of it". The situation resulted in a very tense & shocking stand-off. Finally the council moved the muslims on providing them with a prefab in a carpark. But before that they neighbours had banged their pots and pans and hurled verbal abuse as the muslims tried to pray. At one stage the muslim community moved to pray in the open air in front of the council. The racists brought plackards saying various nasty things including "remember march 11". As if somehow those at prayer might be representative of the group of terrorists who had done Madrid.
[ this is a link to how it ended http://barcelona.indymedia.org/newswire/display/133642/...x.php ]

If you use that language you play into the hands of those with whom you really do not want to give oxygen. Israel for some Israelis woulbe best be a "jewish state" But it is not. & therein lies the mystery of its apartheid nature. Likewise Israel for some Israelis ought be the home of all jews. But it is not. Which is why there is a synagogue in Cork. Because some corkonians did not want to go live in Israel or serve in the IDF.

But at end a story of shoes is told and retold and discussed according to our interpretive bias.

author by Eugene Kiernanpublication date Wed Aug 16, 2006 19:36Report this post to the editors

For those unwilling to accept the truth, I will lay it out here- Israel is a jewish state and this jewish state is murdering children-again!
Peoples problem should not be with several pairs of shoes but with the murderous Israeli jackboots walking over the Palestinian and Lebanese dead.
The famous saying is "never again" yet Israeli butchers are murdering innocents "again".
Do not hide behind a religious smokescreen- a crime is a crime is a crime!

author by Never Againpublication date Wed Aug 16, 2006 20:03Report this post to the editors

It is clearly ridiculous to blame the Isreali population for the actions of its government.
It is even more so to blame all members of a religion for the actions carried out by a few members of it.

Even accepting the twisted logic of those pseudo anti-semites the numbers don't add up

There are just over 5 million Jews living in Isreal
There are 15 million in the world

How can the majority be tainted with the actions of (using your logic) the minority over which they exercise no control.

author by ZioNastypublication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:23Report this post to the editors

Over 90% of theIsraeli population backed the illegal action in Lebanon. Even the so-called "left-wing" and intellectuals backed the line that this was a fight for Israels "survival"/liberation of hostages/pretext-du-jour. Yeah right!? As Israeli is financially bankrupt and stays afloat only because of donations from the Americans and Jewish diaspora, hardly surprising then that there would be protests against Israels illegal actions like blowing up hundreds and perhaps thousands of civilians. Its not like fund-raisers for Zionism have plaques on their walls stating their activities and no doubt they go to the synagogue as hypocrytical Christians go to beat their breasts and tell themselvs how good/right they are. I didn't hear Irish Zionists complaining when Paisley & Co. were blockading Catholic chrurches and schools in the North. Curiously silent werent you. But of course the victims then werent Jewish were they?

author by hmmzpublication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:02Report this post to the editors

Curiously silent werent you. But of course the victims then werent Jewish were they?

want to take that concept? didnt see the Irish doing anything to stop the slaughter of Jews when they were almost wiped out eithier mate, in fact the republicans were applauding hitler, in fact come to think of it dont think i have ever seen a positive comment about Jews on this site, funny that, jews are the evil of the world, responsible for everything, someone else used to talk like that....hmmzzzz

A Dublin newspaper, commenting in 1850, pointed out that Baron Lionel de Rothschild and his family had "contributed during the Irish famine of 1847 ... a sum far beyond the joint contributions of the Devonshires, and Herefords, Lansdownes, Fitzwilliams and Herberts, who annually drew so many times that amount from their Irish estates."
OMG a jew saving the Irish....the irony of it..

It is estimated that Ireland accepted as few as 30 Jewish refugees before and during World War II.
JASUS the goodness of it all....

Under the sensitive headline "Hitler Speaking Hebrew", Brendan Hughes, former IRA chief in Belfast in the 1970s, recently wrote about how he had driven a busload of protestors down to the capital for an anti-Israeli demonstration "at the request of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Committee".

Nice friends the self-styled "peace activists" of Ireland's pro-Palestinian movement have made for themselves there. And little wonder if Ireland's dwindling Jewish community noting the IRA's own contribution to human rights under the leadership of men like Hughes are given pause for thought

author by ZioNastypublication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:03Report this post to the editors

"The 1841 census of Ireland revealed a population of 10,897,449. This figure includes the correction factor established by that year's official partial recount. When, between 1779 and 1841, the U.S. population increased by 640 percent, and England's is estimated to have increased, despite massive emigration to its colonies, by 100 percent, it is generally accepted that Ireland's population increase was 172% 10. The average annual component of this 172% increase is x in the formula (1+ x)62 = 1 + 172%; thus 0.0163, or 1.63%. Accepting that this 1.63% rate of annual population increase continued until mid-1846 (one human gestation after the late-1845 beginning of removal of Ireland's food), the 1846 population was 11,815,011.
Assuming that rate continued, the population in 1851, absent the starvation, would have been approximately 12,809,841. However; the 1851 census recorded a population of 6,552,385; thus there was a "disappearance" of 6,257,456."

The victims of the Irish holocaust shared the same cause of death as the majority of Jews and millions of others deliberately starved and worked to death by the Germans and their allies a century later. Whatever Rotschild gave to help them it was a drop in the ocean. By the way there were collections in India and elsewhere in the world who contributed more than BdR.

Meanwhile back in the third millenium Israel has butchered hundreds and probably thousands of Lebanese civilians while the world stood by and watched much in the same way it did in the 1840s.

Surely its about time we collectively learned from history?

As for your remarks attributing the decline in the Jewish population to the Republican movement they are scurrilous, without foundation and unworthy of comment.

Related Link: http://www.irishholocaust.org/
author by Ali H.publication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:14Report this post to the editors

Sorry to rain on your parade but the money wasn't Rothschilds. He was a banker and arranged a commercial loan of £10M to the British.

He also financed wars like the Crimean war, and colonial expansion by the Austro-Hungarian empire. A true philanthropist if ever there was one.

Related Link: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=445&le...ter=R
author by OMGWTFpublication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:18Report this post to the editors

As for your remarks attributing the decline in the Jewish population to the Republican movement they are scurrilous, without foundation and unworthy of comment.

INDEED, no, no attributing more association methinks was the point of the above persons comment and they are 100% correct

Related Link: http://www.phoblacht.net/speak.html
author by so wrongpublication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:31Report this post to the editors

Sorry to rain on your parade but the money wasn't Rothschilds. He was a banker and arranged a commercial loan of £10M to the British
You have no idea what you are on about!!

In the original subscription list of the British Association for the Relief of Famine, preserved in the National Library in Dublin, Queen Victoria heads the list with a gift of £2,000 followed by the Jewish financier Baron Lionel de Rothschild's £1,000. A Dublin newspaper, commenting in 1850 on the Baron's generosity, made the point that he and his family had contributed during the Irish famine of 1847 ... a sum far beyond the joint contributions of the Devonshires, and Herefords, Lansdownes, Fitzwilliams and Herberts, who annually drew so many times that amount from their Irish estates.' In 1880 when a new appeal for help for Ireland was directed at America, the Irish Relief Fund and the Irish Famine Fund was liberally supported by American Jews.

The point was that the ROthchilds --ALL of them combined contributed more than all of the landowners in Ireland combined---some familiar names there even today

author by choctawpublication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:46Report this post to the editors

Large sums of money were donated by charities; Calcutta is credited with making the first donation of £14,000. The money was raised by Irish soldiers serving there and Irish people employed by the East India Company. Pope Pius IX sent funds, Queen Victoria personally gave the modern day equivalent of €70,000, while the Choctaw Indians famously sent $710 and grain, an act of generosity still remembered to this day, and publicly commemorated by President Mary Robinson in the 1990s. Lord Rothschild donated more than every other English aristocrat combined, although he had not the financial interests in Ireland that many others had. Nevertheless, charitable donations could not solve the scale of the problem.

Dont ever forget the Choctaw indians, now get back on topic please

author by Ali H.publication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:57Report this post to the editors

that Rothschild and his bank made a nice fee on his £10M.

I'm sure people would be more impressed if he had donated his/banks fee rather than a paltry £1000.

The contributions from native Americans and others who had very little to give are much more impressive as those who gave them had little if anything to give in the first place.

BTW read your link and didn't see any evidence of the IRA/Republicans ethnically cleansing Irish Jews!

"And we know just how easy it can be to inflict such genocide when there are so many prepared to turn a blind eye. Nazi Germany went as far as it did because of blind eyes and cowardly silence. Do not let on you are unaware of what is happening. The spectre of Israeli racism is massacring the Palestinians. Do no give your children cause to condemn you for your indifference. Speak out and demand the end to the Israeli occupation of Palestine now."

author by omgpublication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 13:27Report this post to the editors

BTW read your link and didn't see any evidence of the IRA/Republicans ethnically cleansing Irish Jews

Ali, the person was pointing out the link of brendan hughes through his own writing to the ***peace movement*** IPSC, a contradiction if ever there was one

brendan hughes was the IRA commander in Belfast and overlorded over such things as:

the IRA's Belfast Brigade planted 22 bombs in the city center of Belfast, launching them near simultaneously in the early afternoon of what became known as ‘Bloody Friday’.

a peacefull fellow to be sure and a person the IPSC must be proud of

basically any peace movement associating themselves with such people are laughable, dont think anyone could seriously disagree

author by Hmmmmnowwhat'saboutthisthenpublication date Thu Aug 17, 2006 13:51Report this post to the editors

Nope, your argument doesn't stand up. The IPSC doesn't describe itself as a pacifist organisation, and most Palestinian solidarity activists believe it's legitimate to use force against the Israeli occupation forces (although not against civilians).

As far as Brendan Hughes is concerned, the clear majority of the Irish people voted for an agreement that would put his former comrades in the IRA, Martin McGuinness prominent among them, into the government of Northern Ireland. So if we can forgive and forget to that extent, we can certainly let Brendan Hughes drive a bus down to Dublin. So far as I am aware, Hughes is opposed to any return to armed struggle by republicans (although he's very critical of the Adams leadership).

The GFA, which was hailed around the world as a model for conflict resolution, acknowledges that the IRA campaign was politically motivated, and gave early release to all IRA prisoners. This doesn't meant that we can't look back at the actions of the IRA and criticise or condemn them (and Bloody Friday would certainly be an example), but I'm afraid you won't get far trying to expose the IPSC as hypocrites because the Dark volunteered to drive a bus instead of a Quaker pacifist.

And don't get me started about all the terrorists from Irgun and Stern who have served in Israeli governments - the atrocities committed by those groups after WWII put the Provos in the shade.

author by liffeypublication date Fri Sep 08, 2006 23:06Report this post to the editors

'There were children's shoes wired to the Synagogue in Cork, yesterday, presumeably in protest against Israel's horrific attack on Lebanon'

Sorry to disappoint but shoes tied to a railing like shoes over telephone wires usually means drugs on sale.

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