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WAR will be an election issue

category dublin | anti-war / imperialism | press release author Tuesday August 08, 2006 01:49author by Sinéad Ní Bhroin on behalf of - PANAauthor email pana at eircom dot netauthor phone 087-2611597 Report this post to the editors

Press Statement
Peace & Neutrality Alliance (PANA)

In a statement issued today the Chair of the Peace & Neutrality said; "The war in the Middle East, the use of Shannon Airport in that war & the possibility of direct involvement of Irish troops in that war means that for the first time since 1914-18 Irish troops will be fighting and dying in an imperialist war. Dermot Ahern & Willie O’Dea should think long & hard before making such a commitment with Irish lives. In 2004 Jose Maria Anzar, Prime Minister of Spain, unexpectedly lost a general election to the Socialists on an anti war sentiment propelling Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero into power on foot of the Madrid bombings. Here too, war can & will become an election issue.

Ever since the decision of the current Fine Fail/PD Government to support the invasion & occupation of Iraq Ireland has not been a neutral state but an active ally of America’s new imperialism. The Irish Government is not content with having destroyed Irish Neutrality; it now proposes to send Irish soldiers as part of an "international" force to Lebanon, the purpose of which will be to fight side by side with the Zionists against the Lebanese resistance who are fighting to reclaim their own land.

The stark truth is that the current FF/PD Government has destroyed Irish Neutrality as exampled by its aiding of US foreign policy, furthering the militarization of Europe by legislative changes that will increase our participation in EU battle groups & by its support of an EU decision to cut off substantial aid to ordinary Palestinians because the US & Israel did not like that peoples democratic election results. Thanks to FF/PD policy Ireland has become nothing more than a vassal state of the US. Ironically, if our troops are sent to help Israel they will be nothing more than mercenaries. They will have gone from being an Army of Independence that fought the Black and Tans to becoming Black and Tans themselves."

Related Link: http://www.pana.ie
author by : 0************publication date Tue Aug 08, 2006 19:35Report this post to the editors

the war in Iraq became an election issue in Spain because of the bombings in Madrid.

We luckily have not been targeted by islamists so it's highly unlikely that the issue of the war in the lebanon will influence the average irish person's voting habits whenever this election is held. The economy will as always be the most important issue for the average irish man in the street.

author by anonpublication date Tue Aug 08, 2006 20:37Report this post to the editors

If and when a UN resolution and UN force is agreed upon and Irish troops partake how is any different from the previous lebanon deployment
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77782&comment_limit=0&c...62597

author by Sinéad Ní Bhroinpublication date Tue Aug 08, 2006 21:16Report this post to the editors

The statement says anti war sentiment on foot of Madrid bombings, not because of bombing. As with the rest of the world there already was a majority in Spain against the occupation of Iraq & their solders taking part in the war. Zapatero made an election pledge to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq if he got elected, & he did. Immediately post the bombings the people of Spain made the connection that if you bring war on another country then a consequence of that action is that war may come home to you.

We don't have to be targeted by 'Islamists' as was the experience in Madrid. The statement goes on to say if Irish UN peace keepers are sent out to support Israel’s occupation of Iraq, & one or more of the proposed 130 Irish solders Dermot Ahern/Willie O'Dea is prepared to supply are killed then war could very quickly become an election issue.

But anyway the central point contained within the statement is not that the attack on Lebanon is the going to make war an election issue. It is the cumulative effect of the current Governments support of US foreign policy with regard to the middle east that will in time focus peoples minds.

No-where in the statement does it say war will be a PRIMARY election issue, naturally ordinary people are immediately concerned with their own daily struggles with regard to healthcare, education, housing etc etc. However increasing numbers within Irish society have become frustrated over the last 5 years with US/Israel/EU perpetual attacks on the people of the Middle East.

For example the middle class who have on the surface benefited from the economic boom of the last number of years have the space to engage with the arguments that what Muslims throughout the world really want is….

For foreign military to withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq immediately. For Israel to take down the brutal wall, give the Palestinians back their land & end 3 generations of displacement via acts of war & horrendous human rights abuses. & for the billions upon billons America/Israel/EU have ear marked for war be diverted to promoting & implementing the reconstruction of ordinary people’s lives throughout the Middle East. Even the Islamists!

Will war be THE election issue? No. Will war be AN election issue? Quite possibly.

author by Sinéad Ní Bhroinpublication date Tue Aug 08, 2006 21:29Report this post to the editors

I would argue that what we see today in Lebanon (& Afghanistan, & Iraq & what we may see tomorrow in Syria & Iran) is the fruition of the neo-cons new imperialism. & this new imperialism is what changes everything.

author by anonpublication date Tue Aug 08, 2006 21:54Report this post to the editors

I know that PANA is most interested in the broader story of Irish neutrality, NATO and EU battlegroups,
so I know it would be very sure of its knowledge when it says

" for the first time since 1914-18 Irish troops will be fighting and dying in an imperialist war."

You went right back to 1914, I still would like PANA to educate me to how if this forthcoming UN force is imperlistic (doing US/EU/Israel bidding) how the previous Irish UN force was not.

author by caligulapublication date Tue Aug 08, 2006 23:18Report this post to the editors

It seems crystal clear that the "immediate ceasefire",yet to come,and the proposed "UN mandate" have been drawn up at the behest of US and Israel to further the U.S. Middle East policy and its so-called War on Terror.This latter term is a euphemism for the U.S.to continually wage war throughout regions of the world for control of diminishing resources.The occupation of countries for the purpose of promoting your own National Self-Interest is Imperialism.The exact nature of the lies you tell in order to achieve this is irrelevant.The Middle East agenda of the U.S. needs a local,well-armed bully,and Israel is it.Any U.N. force operating under a U.S.-Israeli "mandate",therefore,would be aiding imperialism.Irish troops should not be part of such a "quisling"force.

author by Chris Murray - The Unmanageablespublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:42Report this post to the editors


The Irish Government seems steadfast in it's Support for the U.S/U.K sponsored
'Road-Map' of which this war is a symptom. Almost a month of War and reports
this morning say that it will continue.Meanwhile some government minister
will open the Dublin Horse Show today :- as Gogarty said "Whores will be Busy"
(though they pulled the poem when they realised what the first lines amounted to).

The Irish Government is making us complicit in the US/UK war machine
by it's silent complicity in that war. There is alot of scmoozing going on at the
horse-racing fectivals and the show-jumping .

btw: Sinead:-) we think its an election issue too.

author by Roger Cole - Peace & Neutrality Alliancepublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:26author email pana at eircom dot netReport this post to the editors

Irish neutrality was only a policy unlike Malta and Austria where
it is enshrined in law. In February 2003 the FF/PD Government
voted out a Sinn Fein Constitutional Amendment to enshrine it in our Constitution supported by the Green Party, the Labour Party and several independents.
The FF/PD Government then went on to terminate the policy
by allowing US planes to use Shannon airport, as the Hague Convention of 1907 clearly states, a state which wishes to be regarded as neutral cannot allow its territory to be used by belligerents in a war. Ireland in fact became an ally of the US/UK/Israeli alliance, as the invasion, conquest and occupation of Iraq took place to consolidate US/Israeli military domination of the Middle East. It is an Imperalist war.
The invasion and massive bombing of Lebanon was carried out by the US/UK/Israeli military for the same reason. The capturing of a few Israeli soldiers was not a justifiable reason for the war on Lebanon. It is an Imperialist war.
The FF/Pd are now proposing to send Irish troops to Lebanon when it it is absolutely clear that the role of such an "international' force as envisaged by the US/UK is to fight side by side with the Zionists.
On previous UN missions in Lebanon that was not the case.
It therefore will mean that for the first time since 1914 Irish soldiers will be part of an Imperialist army. If this happens war and the use of Shannon and Irish troops in that war will be an election issue. How big an issue it will be depends on if this happens, and how well the broader anti-war movement works together to make it an issue.
If of course I am wrong and the "international" force helps the people of Lebanon to drive out the invading Israeli army then of course we should support it. However absolutely nobody, including our Government seems to be proposing this option.
War is totally linked with our economic situation as can be seen from the increase in oil prices, which would be happening anyway because of growing demand and limited supply, but war accelerates the rise and our government by supporting war is sharing the responsiblity. We need a new government that would restore Irish neutrality and stop the use of Shannon in the Imperialist war in Iraq or any any other imperialist war.

Related Link: http://www.pana.ie
author by all incorrectpublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:29Report this post to the editors

It therefore will mean that for the first time since 1914 Irish soldiers will be part of an Imperialist army.

err all your **facts** are arseways pal...

Suggest you educate yourself on where Irish soldiers have fought and who they have fought with under UN mandates

author by Isaacpublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:44Report this post to the editors

The UN are imperialist. Don't be under the illusion that Irish soldiers are somehow 'better' for the people of Lebabon. UN soldier sent to Lebanon will be doing Imperialism's job, ie disarming Hebollah or any other militia group formed. If UN solders were in Ireland in 1916-23 they would have disarmed ICA, Volunteers, attacked the unions, etc, etc. Who are the UN? They are a collection of Capitalist states. Do you think Bertie Ahern transforms his politics when getting on a plane to Brussells? The Anti-War movement in this country is being led by a bunch of electoralists with illusions in capitalist democracy. The election is months and months away. Why are you focusing attention on the election that will be held next summer!! Why are we going on a march in Dundalk? Dermot Ahern will not be pursuaded to change his policies by a march in his town. Capitalist politicians are not for changing. If you want a march have it in Dublin or have a series of them in main towns (incl Drogheda and Dundalk of course). Roger Cole is a member of the Labour Party. His 'comrades' in Israel have been slaughtering innocent civilians for weeks now. His 'comrades' in Britain and Germany don't want a ceasefire. They want a "new middle east". Labour cllr Aidan Culhane went to the media during the week to attack and calumny anti-war protesters. Roger Cole has not got any credibility. (ps- Roger, 100,000 people didn't attend Feb15 protest because of you despite what you think)

author by Roger Cole - Peace & Neutrality Alliancepublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 13:11author email pana at eircom dot netReport this post to the editors

Irish neutrality was only a policy unlike Malta and Austria where
it is enshrined in law. In February 2003 the FF/PD Government
voted out a Sinn Fein Constitutional Amendment to enshrine it in our Constitution supported by the Green Party, the Labour Party and several independents.
The FF/PD Government then went on to terminate the policy
by allowing US planes to use Shannon airport, as the Hague Convention of 1907 clearly states, a state which wishes to be regarded as neutral cannot allow its territory to be used by belligerents in a war. Ireland in fact became an ally of the US/UK/Israeli alliance, as the invasion, conquest and occupation of Iraq took place to consolidate US/Israeli military domination of the Middle East. It is an Imperalist war.
The invasion and massive bombing of Lebanon was carried out by the US/UK/Israeli military for the same reason. The capturing of a few Israeli soldiers was not a justifiable reason for the war on Lebanon. It is an Imperialist war.
The FF/Pd are now proposing to send Irish troops to Lebanon when it it is absolutely clear that the role of such an "international' force as envisaged by the US/UK is to fight side by side with the Zionists.
On previous UN missions in Lebanon that was not the case.
It therefore will mean that for the first time since 1914 Irish soldiers will be part of an Imperialist army. If this happens war and the use of Shannon and Irish troops in that war will be an election issue. How big an issue it will be depends on if this happens, and how well the broader anti-war movement works together to make it an issue.
If of course I am wrong and the "international" force helps the people of Lebanon to drive out the invading Israeli army then of course we should support it. However absolutely nobody, including our Government seems to be proposing this option.
War is totally linked with our economic situation as can be seen from the increase in oil prices, which would be happening anyway because of growing demand and limited supply, but war accelerates the rise and our government by supporting war is sharing the responsiblity. We need a new government that would restore Irish neutrality and stop the use of Shannon in the Imperialist war in Iraq or any any other imperialist war.

Related Link: http://www.pana.ie
author by o yespublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 13:33Report this post to the editors

It allready is !!!!

Related Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2305204,0....html
author by MichaelY - iawmpublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 14:08Report this post to the editors

Isaac's message above is a loud and clear expression of a serious and debilitating disease that's rife in parts of the progressive movement in this country, and many other places too. Leaving the personal + abusive comments about RC, and "other leaders of the anti-war movement" aside, as they don't deserve commentary - they are too trite to be true, two important issues arise from Isaac's comments:

1. Elections under a capitalist system is almost always the way and method the working classs and the other oppressed use in order to move forward politically and economically. And in order not to be attacked by the trolls, let me clarify immediately by saying elections are a tool along with other + various methods of struggle...strikes, sabotage, direct action (non-violent or violent), absenteeism from work, local mobilisations, vigils, pickets, demonstrations...all of those methods of struggle are the arsenal of the movement - ALONG with elections! Just one example....elections in the 6 Counties have been a formidable weapon in the hands of our nationalist people along with a variety of other methods. So it would have been totally amiss for the anti-war movement, of which PANA is an important part, to overlook elections. And the earlier we start thinking of our strategy and tactics in this respct the better. Well done Roger, well done Sinead, well done Cosantoiri.

2. Don't know if Isaac was present yesterday Tuesday in the demonstration outside the Israeli and US Embassies. Under the pouring rain, about 400 of us marched and shouted our anger against what Israel and the Empire are attempting to do in the Middle East. It was great to see members of Sinn Fein, PANA, the IPSC, the IAWM, the Socialist Party, the Labour Party and its Youth, the Spartacists, Ant-War Ireland, Cosantoiri, the Workers Party stand shoulder to shoulder. This type of unity is what we need.....now if one is to follow Isaac's recipe, we should have told the LP people to buzz off!! This is the type of politics that has bedevilled us for so many years....as for Dundalk, demonstrations have been organised in Cork, Galway, Limerick, Tralee, Derry, Belfast, Wexford and now Dundalk. Isaac must have missed them it seems....a pity.
Buses for Dundalk, btw, leave from Liberty Hall......in case he/she may want to come with us.

P.S. Elections do become, of course, irrelevant either in insurrectionary situations, or if the Empire decides it doesn't like the electoral results...see Hamas see Hezbollah....see Chavez...but that's another discussion for another day.

author by Johnpublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 14:48Report this post to the editors

Your comments are somewhat muddled and inconsistent, not to say hypocritical. You call yourself the Peace and Neutrality Alliance. You want neutrality to be enshrined in the Irish Constitution. Yet you say in relation to Irish troops being involved in an international force in the Lebanon: 'If of course I am wrong and the "international" force helps the people of Lebanon to drive out the invading Israeli army then of course we should support it'. So, according to you, if Irish troops go to Lebanon as part of a UN International force, with the agreement and consent of both the Lebanese and Israeli governments, for the purposes of patrolling a buffer zone between the various factions, then you consider this wicked, imperialist, a breach of our neutrality blah blah blah. But, if Irish troops go to Lebanon unilaterally and fight alongside HezBollah in probably suicidal attempts to drive the Israeli army out of Lebanon (and presumably out of Israel as well if Hezbollah has its way), then in your own words you'll support that course of action. In other words, all this talk about neutrality is hogwash. You don't want Ireland to be neutral at all in this war, you want it to fight alongside one of the participants, Hezbollah. You are, of course, entitled to advocate that if you want. You may well feel that Hezbollah's cause is so just that Irish troops should fight alongside them. But, don't try to pretend that such a course of action is consistent with the concept of neutrality.

author by MichaelY - iawmpublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 14:59Report this post to the editors

Just as a footnote to my message above, and as a response to Isaac in particular, please consult http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77803?
for another aspect of the anti-war movement

author by roger is confusedpublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 15:14Report this post to the editors

Irish troops should only serve abroad as peacekeepers under the auspices of the UN.

The above is from peace and nuetralitys website

So what is roger carping on about?

Methinks Roger is a bit confused about panas 5 **aims**
Or is it just another front for a much more scary organisation?

indeed the pana should rewrite all of its aims based on the carping above to:

We are a nuetral country! But we will support terrorist organisations by sending in Irish troops to fight alongside them against imperialist forces, thus making Ireland a pirahna state like Syria or Iran
Wouldnt roger and his cronies love that!!

He also says:
The FF/Pd are now proposing to send Irish troops to Lebanon when it it is absolutely clear that the role of such an "international' force as envisaged by the US/UK is to fight side by side with the Zionists

But surely roger if it is under the auspices of the UN it agrees with one of your organisations stated beliefs

I am afraid roger you have let the cat well and truly out of the bag

Well done Roger!!

NEXT!

author by jasuspublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 15:27Report this post to the editors

Roger
You have just succeeded in humiliating the entire alliance with your rabid comments

I think your el presidente would love to see this as well as maybe these views of your alliance have not been fully explained to him

Good Luck Now!

author by Roger Cole - Peace & Neutrality Alliancepublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 20:58author email pana at eircom dot netReport this post to the editors

The latest information available from www.antiwar.com says that France, the Lebanon and the other
Arab states are now calling for the immediate end to the occupation of Lebanon by the invading Israeli Army and that the UN and the Lebonese Army move into the area now occupied which is essentialy the case I was putting. The key point I was seeking to make is that the UN if it is to have any value is that it has to opose Imperialism and not support it.
Up to now the "international force" as advocated by the US and the UK and France (up to the latest reports) was to be an extension of the military power of the expansionist Israeli state.

Related Link: http://www.pana.ie
author by fairpublication date Wed Aug 09, 2006 23:27Report this post to the editors

Fair points there really, although if the UNIFIL operation is to be expanded(i thought this is what they were suggesting to do)

Looks like neither side wants to stop fighting at the moment and untill they do noone can do anything---

Israel has called up another 30,000 troops to push to the litani river
I think this will backfire on Israel as a protracted campaign they cannot win and then they will hand over to UNIFIL, Hezbollah will just rearm itself or submerge itself into the lebonese army(which contains hezbollah troops allready)

You cannot trust anything you see or hear from eithier side in this as both are playing the propaganda game hard and civilians are, as always the casualties on all sides

I condemn both sides. Hezbollah for moving in civilian areas and Israel for putting airstrikes into civilian areas and destroying all roads in/out of the area.

People of the world are growing sick of this war on terror

author by boadiceapublication date Thu Aug 10, 2006 22:56Report this post to the editors

It should by now be clear to those contributers who seemed to blindly accept the proposed U.S.-French "mandate",that there is such a thing as a flawed UN mandate which Ireland,as a sovereign state,can and should refuse to have anything to do with.When it is obvious,or likely,that the consequences of such a flawed mandate would be further suffering and death of innocent civilians then the Irish Govt.should have no hand,act or part in it.The U.S.-French "mandate" seems to have bitten the dust,not just because of Arab opposition(led by the Lebanese Govt.itself),but because cooler heads saw it for what it was i.e part of U.S.-Israeli plans to"reshape the Middle-East"and as such was not just simplistic but dangerous.Of course an immediate ceasefire as Ireland,and the majority of states,has proposed since Day One should have taken place and the "diplomacy" argued after,thereby saving hundreds of innocents on both sides but we know which states blocked the proposal.We ought to be very wary,therefore,if those same states suggest a particular direction for the U.N.to follow.

author by Isaacpublication date Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:37Report this post to the editors

Roger Cole supports a UN intervention in Lebanon. They will not be going there to support the people of Lebanon. They will go there with the authorisation of Bush, Chirac, Blair and the Chinese Dictatorship. Do you think these permanent members of the UN security Council will put in a force to "help" the Lebanese against Imperialism? The UN is a capitalist institution. The Lebanese people have attacked and protested against the UN. The UN is an amalgamation of all the most disgusting rotten Leaders in the world. Again Roger and Others should answer this question. When Bush/Blair/Ahern/Merkell/Chirac/Olmert get on a plane to NY or Geneva do they transform into decent people? Do they leave their morality in Duty Free? Their domestic and foreign policies are pro-capitalist and a disaster for the people of the world. Labour should be criticised. I would not tell members of that party at a protest to "Buzz Off". But I would certainly ask them not to bring banners and flags. Their party is pro-war. Untill the Irish Labour party move a motion to expell Israel, Germany and UK parties from their international Org they should not be fully welcome in an official capacity. Even in Ireland Labour people like Cllrs Culhane and McManus have criticised anti-war protesters. Will Culhane and McManus be expelled? If not, why not? They have aided the right-wing lies about Hezbollah being supported by the left.

author by Isaacpublication date Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:44Report this post to the editors

I agree that elections Should be Used. But it is still months and months away from the election. We all know that it would be great to put the Irish Gov under pressure on this issue at the election. But to raise elections now is Electoral. It puts the need for a vigourous campaign on the back-burner for months. We need to campaign NOW not next year. I think the electoralism from IPSC/PANA/IAWM is for 2 Reasons. 1. Illusions in elections and and wanting to get more votes for themselves (eg Cole, Boyd-Barrett), 2. Illusions in capitalist Politicians, they believe that Dermot Ahern can be a force for good if asked nicely by a Dundalk rally. (It's ironic Roger Cole wants elections to put pressure on Pro-War politiician. Fine Gael are the most outspoken Pro-War party in Ireland. Labour want a coalition and a voting pact with them!!!)

author by MichaelY - iawmpublication date Fri Aug 11, 2006 13:16Report this post to the editors

Dear Isaac,

Thanks for your response...if our starting point is that "elections can be used" let us proceed. To my knowledge, neither the IPSC, nor PANA, and certainly not ourselves have argued that we should drop everything else and work on the issue of elections alone...that, as you correctly put it, would have been inane electoralism.
Instead, there is a whole set of initiatives and ideas about demonstrations, vigils, debates, a serious plan for boycott of Israeli goods...Three demonstrations tomorrow: Belfast, Cork and Dundalk. Furthermore, there is a call of the Anti-War Network to have a meeting on Saturday Sept. 19th [2pm Teachers Club] to invite all the anti-war groups, precisely asyou suggest - to plan a vigorous and effective campaign right now!
And then there are the developments in Derry over the last couple of days and the situation of the nine arrested comrades who are appearing in the High Court as these lines are written.
Therefore, to start thinking about our collective strategy re: next year's elections is only a partial, and at the moment, a very small part of our work.
Finally, do us a favour and lets keep this, important in my opinion discussion, de-personalised. What RC or RBB think, or don't think, in relation to elections is an issue between you and them.....it doesn't directly influence the decisions of the IPSC, and most certainly of the IAWM...My response above reflects fully the decisions of the Steering Committee of the IAWM that met last night and I hope we can leave it at that.

Regards

Michael

author by Isaacpublication date Fri Aug 11, 2006 15:53Report this post to the editors

Michael Y has just shown us all that the IAWM/PANA/IPSC are conservatives. He is content to know there are a few vigils planned were Religion loving Gob-botherers can light candles. He's content to have his diary sorted for the next week or two. What about the mass of the Population that oppose the Lebanon War? There is no sence of Momentum and no Perspective from these muppets to Get ordinary people involved. Instead you'll hold a few stalls calling for boycotts on minor Goods and services. What about a real National Demonstration 15 Feb style? That could have happened. But it didn't because we've got conservatives in the Lead of IAWM/PANA/IPSC. Momentum may have gone away from the issue. There is a thing called the Ebb and Flow of a Campaign. You've gotta hit home while the Iron is hot. It's pointless being a content Diary Filler. IAWM are an SWP front and reflect their Liberal Middle Class "diary filling/vigil holding" mentality. PANA are in effect calling for Imperial intervention in Labanon and for "neurality" (whatever that is). IPSC are anti-Israeli but are so anti-Israeli they want the Trade Union to boycott the Israeli working Class and our Sports organisation to Boycott fellow sportsmen just because of Nationality.

author by MichaelY - iawmpublication date Fri Aug 11, 2006 16:06Report this post to the editors

Isaac,

I am sorry to see you've lost it again.....your second last message showed you were developing a bit of sense but this last one....ebb and flow indeed.
There are three demos tomorrow...to deride the people from Belfast, Cork and Dundalk as muppets and candle lighting God...etc smacks of a tiny bit of arrogance. And in case you missed it, the AUG 19th Anti war network meeting is precisely one designed to plan a National demonstration - among other things.
In case you're wondering, we do not feel that the war in Gaza and Lebanon is about to end soon....in fact, we expect Syria and Iran to enter the Empire's war sights.
Your views of PANA, to which all the major political organisations of the left are affiliated, on the IPSC and the IAWM are noted.....and this is the end of my responses to you. Good luck sunshine!

author by Isaacpublication date Fri Aug 11, 2006 17:38Report this post to the editors

Muppets are the leaders of IAWM/PANA/IPSC not the people of Dundalk Belfast and Cork. Again Michael Y shows the "Diary Filling" attitude/outlook of these muppets.

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