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Demonstration against massacres in Lebanon

category antrim | anti-war / imperialism | news report author Sunday July 30, 2006 18:06author by Ciarán Ó Brolcháinauthor email ciaranobrolchain at hotmail dot com Report this post to the editors

A photo-essay

A large crowd turned out in Belfast on Saturday despite poor weather to march to the City Hall and protest the continuing slaughter and destruction being carried out in Palestine and Lebanon.
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(If anyone is looking photos I have ones with higher resolution so just email me.)

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author by Ciarán Ó Brolcháinpublication date Sun Jul 30, 2006 18:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

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author by Ciarán Ó Btolcháinpublication date Sun Jul 30, 2006 18:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

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author by Ciarán Ó Brolcháinpublication date Sun Jul 30, 2006 18:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

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author by Bill T.publication date Sun Jul 30, 2006 20:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

There is nothing inherently wrong with the Irish language. It's speakers have full rights to participate in demos, with the state, etc. through their language. However I reckon that the organisers are not using it to communicate. They are sectarianising it. They want Irish to be a language for Political Nationalists. I also note that "Brits" are told to leave Iraq & Ireland. By "Brits" do you mean British Imperialism? Or do you mean British people? Do you mean Ulster Protestants? The British Working Class are also subjected by their Capitalists. Using term "Brits" implies you also want Working Class people of British nationality/affinity to leave Ireland, Iraq, wherever. If you want a successful Anti-War campaign you will have to stop appealing to only one section of the population. A cross-community campaign is needed.

author by 11:11publication date Sun Jul 30, 2006 21:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

1)Should we not oppose Religious Extremists AND the actions of the Israeli Gov.?

2)Why burn an American flag? We have the right to protest,yes...this however,is uncalled for. We are way ahead of that on the left here,or so I thought?

author by Davy Carlinpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A few brief points as we move forward

There are a lot of various actions ongoing by various groups over this issue and it is essential to support all. I had read the Belfast Anti War movement’s {SWP in effect} call for support made by their organiser and another recently, as I had Anti War Ireland, and despite my probs with them{SWP} I had attended and given visible support. And although it had seen but five SWP and a student in attendance {this in real terms is the reality as stated, of such 'individual' calls of support for their initiatives} -such calls and actions nevertheless are important, more especially if such where their first visible actions from themselves in donkeys. I know the SWP seek to get involved in such, or attempt to call their own stuff when momentum is created by others, {band wagon} as has been the last couple of issues in Belfast – {I know activists have concerns and I will go into that in my Diary soon} – but despite that any actions are welcome and should be supported. .

The IPSC demo above ‘jointly ‘organised by BAWM’ I think I had seen e-mailed somewhere - again was a good initiative and although the majority of those who attended came from West Belfast {and someone called it a West Belfast march} under the banners of the IPSC, West against Racism, SF, IRSP etc it was an important initiative and building block – and was indeed supported by most of the left organisations and groups in Belfast.

I will go into more of such initiatives and visible and otherwise mustering of support for such in Diary.

Speaking briefly at the end of above rally I had stated that all such campaigns, actions and tactics should be supported whatever differences in tactics etc we have.. Looking back a few years ago, although the Dublin Anti War Movement by and large was about march after march the BAWM had seen Sit downs, lock downs, road blocks, occupations and much more embraced and embedded within the local Movement as there where many understandings within the Movement.

Similarly today there are many campaigns on the issue from IPSC, SY, AWI, Peace people Trocaire, SWP -BAWM - and many more in Belfast {Indeed many who had once come under the umbrella of the BAWM when it had that respect} - all now hold their own individual actions – and all should be supported whatever differences we have.

So the continual Momentum builds in Belfast via

1} IPSC –

2} Trocaire

1}-The Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign will be holding spontaneous candlelight vigils throughout Ireland tomorrow, Monday 31 July, to protest at the (2nd) Qana massacre in Lebanon.

The Belfast vigil will be held at 6.00 pm outside the EU offices, Windsor
House, Bedford St. (see attached map).

Why the EU office

Because we don't have an Israeli embassy, nor a
Function in US consulate and the EU still haven't demanded an immediate unconditional ceasefire.

Bring candles if you can but there will be some candles there.?Also bring
placards with protest messages because the press will be there.

2} – Trocaire

Read at link below

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77582

Please circulate and support these initiatives and all such within all Networks. - D

Yep I will be e-mailing u Ciaran for a few pics, it seems I didn't take a good pic this time round - ATB mate- D

author by Non-Sectarianpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why not have a Anti-War movement that will be open to all in Belfast? Davy Carlin and others don't seem to care that only people from West Belfast came. If you restrict yourself to this your campaign will fail. Trocaire is a wing of the Catholic Church. They offer nothing progressive for the people of Lebanon. They call for a "just peace" in middle-east. I wonder what the RC view of "just" is? IPSC doo good work. But they also have wrong politics. They make a call for boycott of Israeli Trades Unions. According to them the Israeli Working Class are to blame for Lebanese massacres. Then you have Sinn Fein and IRSP. Both base themselves on Communal Politics. No person from the other 'community' will want to go near them. In fact, SF and IRSP are uncritical of Hezbollah's attacks on Haifa and Israeli civilians. But I'm not surprised. It's not long ago they were bombing the innocent people of Britian.

author by Curiouspublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Did you have any luck yourself recruiting people for your alternative demo? There was a good rally by the UDA last night (I'm sure they would be different to the Trocaire gang). How did the leafleting go down at the demo?

author by Non-Sectarianpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Did you have any luck yourself recruiting people for your alternative demo? There was a good rally by the UDA last night (I'm sure they would be different to the Trocaire gang). How did the leafleting go down at the demo?"

This is a prime example of a Sectarian outlook. This muppet thinks that all Protestants are in the UDA. The UDA are not less sectarian than SF. I've no problem with anyone being at an anti-war ptoetest. I do have a problem with it being dominated by sectarian elements. SF & IRSP (+UDA!) are sectarians. They don't exactly have a clear record on attacking Civlian populations. They should not be allowed Dominate an anti-war Movemebnt. Trocaire are a part of the Catholic Church. If they set the agenda we'll all be asked to pray for Peace! People on this newswire are so sectarianised by West Belfast/NI they don't see how unappealing that protest is to many ordinary Protestnat people. "Brits out of Ireland"???? What does this mean. If it means British Imperialism then fair enough (please rephrase though). But I've a strong suspicion it means British people. Last time I checked a considerable section of Belfast identify themselves as British.

author by Curiouserpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You came on here insinuating that everybody from West Belfast is a rabid taig sectarian. [You'll say you didn't but your implications are clear] Davy is from West Belfast. If he wants to organise a demo there, fair enough. He doesn't need a muppet like you to criticise him. Count to ten before you start one of your rants. For all your ranting, I bet for all your bleating of non-sectarianism, I bet you have a problem with people in the North who call themselves Irish.

author by Davy Carlinpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

But, briefly on ur points

'Why not have an Anti-War movement that will be open to all in Belfast'

??? – the call to mobilise was open to all, those who turned up is but a statement of fact – and for many not surprising, given the history of many in such working class communities who have been and are at the forefront of standing and marching in solidairty with oppressed people the world over

Indeed the 'once BAWM of old {and it was I who had provided it with the name 'BAWM- similar as with the ARN name -who also where there} originally started of with a similar march with most ‘activists coming from West Belfast, that is not sectarian but as stated simply a statement of fact – and not surprisng.

Indeed it must be said that at that time key and prominent working class Protestant community workers and activists from the Shankill and East Belfast had also marched on that first march - and it was I {individually} who had reached out the hand to seek their involvement at the time

Indeed the Protestant working class have been involved in many 'such initiatives in recent years although not to the extent of those from 'Nationalist and 'Republican communities - indeed - much can be read of such if u so wish within the various links given within attached article

As for the other points u make well u obviously have a position - as do many, including myself, but presently I believe that all who want to end the continual slaughter of human life and who are prepared to mobilise, raise awareness, and protest about it, should be supported.

The proletarian revolution, the planning of new a socialist economy in the Middle East or all the disagreements u have with everyone else who are doing something - well, they can of course be discussed in the process of mobilisation and solidarity - if u so choose-

In the meantime highlight the issue, and lend solidarity to those who at least are prepared to do something about. D

Related Link: http://www.phoblacht.net/DC19070618g.html
author by anti imperialistpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The IPSC demo above ‘jointly ‘organised by BAWM’"
so are you suggesting that this wasnt organised in any way by the BAWM

author by dublinerpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

anyone else who was at this rally who can give a report, the orginal poster?.

author by Davy Carlinpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 13:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The BAWM where ‘involved, but as stated, there is a complete difference between the 'BAWM - SWP calling something visible ‘individually themselves as seen over the last year or so and in recent times, - and them ‘jointly organising' something with those who actually have, and can muster, respect and support - as shown in very real terms.

It is simple Black and White

That is common knowledge, and I will go into more in an article I am doing on the ‘Opportunism of the desperate Vanguard’.

author by anarchopublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 13:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

There does seem to be quite a large swp presence on the march? were did they get all those members from

author by Davy Carlinpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 13:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I am not going to get bogged down in anon swp nitty gritty, as stated, I will go into such in part in my article I am working on- on such mobilisations, the opportunists, the background etc – and link here.

On final point of 'Anarcho. - the SWP had 9 members on the march - they handed flags and banners to others – it is as simple as that, as they do it everywhere. – Signing off - D

author by UDA - Understanding Davy's Anarchismpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 14:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors


At least the poster who criticised the make up of the demo did it in order to attempt a debate on how we build the movement, Davy is still obsessed with the SWP, and hasn't analysed anything politically in yonks.

We need to concentrate on building up broad opposition to US/UK backed Israeli invasion. Any suggestions on how we can do better next time or do we just go on demos to see who is there and make ourselves feel better?

What about the US Consulate, a die-in, some music, a picnic on their doorstep?

author by Lower Wackpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 14:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"UDA are not less sectarian than SF."

Disneyland? Sure and all those Israeli flags prove the point.

author by UDApublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 14:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

read yesterdays newshound

author by Davy Carlinpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 15:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A final one to the SWP above

I believe in raising all issues concerned during the course of struggle, and raising all concerns that I hear. Such concerns will not go under the carpet where some in the SWP and their ilk have in he past attempted to put them.

You talk of a previous poster and of debate of how to build the movement - well it may have by past u or it is little concern to u -but one of the main reasons as to the demise of Anti War Movement {as an organisation} was actually, because of the workings of the SWP – ask most of those outside of the SWP.

so yes lets debate the way forward – but to do so - will not only include learning the mistakes of the past but ensure such {and those that attempt them} do not arise again.

While I raise concerns I do it - while - working within campaigns and not from the side. Indeed I have been involved in much activism in recent months on many matters as recorded here on Indymedia and have, will, and do speak my mind while working within each.

Finally as an attempt to ‘direct’ attention away from what I have raised u raise that I have not written stuff in yonks {I am unsure of what u have written your self – could u send me a link perhaps as so ur words can carry more weight in that regard} – nevertheless, briefly, well apart from work, study, working on two projects, a relationship, writing my West Belfast article and other recent articles for the Blanket, I write on a number of international sites, I am doing interviews and articles for papers, helping and advising students on their political works, doing radio as well as articles for WCR publications and other local based leaflet etc, I also still engage on a number of websites, so I think I try and write as much as I can- in the hour or two I can catch through out life and activism.

But hopefully, as I had stated recently that a firmer balance between activism and more in depth writing I can find time for both on the Blanket within Organise! and other such.

Now away for good – D

author by Davy Fanpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 17:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Davy, I know you do plenty of writing. What about analysis though, yes you would appear to have witnessed some pivotal moments in history, and this is reflected in your writing. However much of your writing would seem to be the recording of your life, not an analysis of the events which shaped it.

Personally I'm disappointed that all you seem to do now is criticise the SWP, in fact I have no doubt that if I was to look over all your postings the SWP would come up more often than Bush, Blair, Ahern, imperialism etc etc. I thought you said that leaving the SWP meant that idealogically you would have more freedom to express yourself. Seems to me you express yourself less now.

You will probably say that you don't engage with anonymous posters, but I'm at work, so have no choice. I'm sure you'll appreciate that.

author by Davy fan fanpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 18:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Freedom to criticise uncensored is also freedom of expression.

author by Dukepublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 22:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Whats all the 'noone is illegal' stuff about? I thought this is about demonstrating solidarity with bieseiged Lebanon. Was there much traffic on the road, coming down from Belfast?

author by sean ogpublication date Mon Jul 31, 2006 23:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

May i ask why there are numerous israeli flags flying in working class protestant areas along with the flags of britain, UDA, UVF, YCV, UFF, etc? could it be that those with the age old devide and conquer mindset just have to show their support with their cohorts with the same mindset in the middle east. maybe this is the reason for the low attendance from the protestant community at these demos. the reality is that loyalists here share the same imperialist ideals as israel, U.S. and britain.

author by Non-Sectarianpublication date Tue Aug 01, 2006 17:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It's clear from statements here there are people so sectarianised by NI society they can't see past their own twarted outlook. Seán Óg is a prime example. He assumes the flags flown in some protestant areas is evidence that ALL in area support the paramilitaries. I think you will find the majority of Protestants oppose putting flags up. I'd say it's the same in Catholic areas. The sectarian paramilitaries (IRA/UDA/UVF/INLA etc) want to re-partition Ulster with their flags and curb-painting. Most decent human beings don't want their areas labelled like this. I challange Seán Óg and his ilk to actually go into a protestant area in Belfast and drop a few leaflets into doors for the next protest march. You will find that Protestants support the Lebanese people. Why would Protestants not support them? Yes, the Loyalist paramilitaries are bigots. They probably do have a warped identification with Israel! But that's not necessarily representative of all Protestants. Equally I could get some of SF/IRA's warped ideas and portray them as views all Catholics hold.

THIS CAMPAIGN WILL FAIL IF YOU DO NOT GET CROSS-COMMUNITY SUPPORT!!! But it's clear some here don't really care about that.

author by I agreepublication date Tue Aug 01, 2006 19:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think what non-sectarian has been saying is very true. i come from a very catholic and nationalist background where sinn fein was the all ruling anti-criticism organisation. when i finally went into a protestant area i was really intimidated with Union Jacks and other unionist flags but when i actually got speaking to protestant working class people about common issues like increase in electricity, gas and rent along with water charges i was taken back.

I now live in a very loyalist area. the people are nice and friendly knowing full well my name and background but also knowing i dont go around calling for 'brits out' but just want justice for the people of ireland irish or british.

The comments by posters like curious are a typical sinn fein attitude of if u dont shout from the roof brits out u are a member of the uda. i say british imperialism out of ireland, and ALL paramilitaries out of the communities. as well SF and OSF say they are socialist so why abandon 1/2 the sections of the working class in the north.

non-sectarian is wrong in one point though i would not advise curious to go into a protestant working class area and leaflet because he is so caught up in tackling unionist sectarianism he forgets to stop his own nationalist sectarianism.

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