USS The Sullivans departs Cobh in Ring of Fire

by Paul - Tivoli, Cork Tue Jul 11, 2006 13:00

Just saw the Garda rib (rigid inflatable boat) being towed behind a SUV on the Dunkettle dual carriageway, presumably heading back to Garda HQ in Dublin. Bye, bye....!

by John Tue Jul 11, 2006 13:27

Most Irish people will welcome the visit of the USS The Sullivans, especially with its Irish connections. The ship is named after the five Sullivan brothers, members of an Irish-American family, who volunteered for service in the United States navy in World War 2. The brothers insisted that they all serve together on the same ship. This had tragic results the following year when the ship they were serving on was sunk by the Japanese and all five brothers were lost. The United States navy named a new warship in their memory and this is the one that visited Cobh. Not surprised that Sinn Fein boycotted the event as they were on the side of the Japanese and Germans in World War 2.

by GG Tue Jul 11, 2006 13:34

Most people would welcome this evil machine into Irish waters? A warship that is a part of the US killing machine? Have you carried out a poll on this? Most people I know are revolted by these visits by US warships. It's bad enough that they are being faciliated at Shannon but now we have their ships as well. I don't think so!

The US under Bush is a dangerous power that is directly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. Welcome their war machine to Ireland? Don't make me laugh.

by AWI (Cork) Tue Jul 11, 2006 15:01

Don't forget the Anti-War Ireland public meeting in Cork city on Friday night. Hopefully, Cobh Anti-War Irelanders can make it up to give everybody an update on events down the harbour.

Speakers on Friday night include prominent US anti-war activists Kathy Kelly and Jimmy Massey (former US Marine), and Prof. John Maguire of Anti-War Ireland. With all the jabbering going on here about (North) Americans and the war, it might be worth hearing at first hand just how strongly many, many US citizens oppose the Bush regime and their imperial wars.

Venue: Metropole Gresham Hotel, MacCurtain Street.

Time: Friday, 14 July, 8.30pm

All welcome!

by Popsiq Tue Jul 11, 2006 15:11

he should be arrested on sight, he has admitted to war crimes & Illegal killings(read Murder) while a fascist marine in Iraq. Just because he has regrets now is no excuse, this murderer should be given to the Hague, in fact isnt it a crime to aid such murdering filth?

by SO MUCH HELP Tue Jul 11, 2006 18:30

All these USA haters should take a look at what the USA provides in AID EVERY SINGLE YEAR to so so so many destitute people across the globe

by Friendships Not Warships! Tue Jul 11, 2006 19:09

WW2 combat veteran, civil rights/anti-Vietnam war resister & founder of the Plowshares Movement (Pit Stop vatiety presently on trial at your very own Four Courts) Phil Berrigan once paid a disarming visit to to the USS Sullivans.

Check link for background.....
http://www.plowsharesactions.org/webpages/PRINCEOFPEACE...S.htm

by AWI (Dublin) Tue Jul 11, 2006 20:11

USS The Sullivans has paid this type of visit to Ireland in the past - some time back it visited Beara in west Cork. Clearly, part of its mission is to soften up the Irish and make us feel some 'ownership' of the US war machine. In truth, the USS Sullivans is a very nasty nuclear-capable Aegis destroyer.

It will never be welcomed to Ireland by anti-war activists. Well done to Cobh AWI for mounting the pickets and for challenging the local worthies who slinked on board!

USS The Sullivans - a nasty piece of the US war machine

by anon Tue Jul 11, 2006 20:21

From their own web site:

What is USAID?

The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) is an independent agency that provides economic, development and humanitarian assistance around the world in support of the foreign policy goals of the United States.
.... U.S. foreign assistance has always had the twofold purpose of furthering America's foreign policy interests in expanding democracy and free markets while improving the lives of the citizens of the developing world. Spending less than one-half of 1 percent of the federal budget, USAID works around the world to achieve these goals.

by popeye Tue Jul 11, 2006 20:37

That ship in the Photo is not the one that was in cobh.

by AWI (Dublin) Tue Jul 11, 2006 20:42

Well, it's the USS The Sullivans found on websites. Can the US Navy have two ships by the same name? Dunno.

by Panzraam Tue Jul 11, 2006 22:26

It’s the older incarnation of the USS The Sullivans. It was a WWII vintage destroyer and it is now in dock in Buffalo New York.

by Dude Tue Jul 11, 2006 22:36

If you would like to learn more about this wonderful ship and her hardworking, dilligent crew http://www.sullivans.navy.mil/home.html is a great place to learn. There was one other USS The Sullivans, but she was not an Arleigh Burke, she was a Fletcher class destroyer that fought in WWII to abolish tyranny and give so many their homes back. She was DD-537 and you can read about her on the website. As well as her namesake, the Sullivan Brothers, George, Francis, Joseph, Madison and Albert, of Waterloo, Iowa.
Bye the way, the other photo you see is the older USS The Sullivans. You obviously need to do some research before you start reporting about things you have no clue of.

The ship depicted as being nuclear capable, was built before the nuclear bomb was invented. So how is it Nuclear capable??? Go research and let me know.

This is Her in all her beauty

by AWI (Dublin) Tue Jul 11, 2006 22:58

Thanks for the photo and don't worry about the research. It's done.

The older ship, as you correctly point out, is not the ship that berthed at Cobh, but photographs of it, I'm afraid, come up all over the place. Mea culpa for posting one - I wasn't in Cobh, so I didn't see the warship while it was there.

Your remarks about nuclear capability are puzzling. Of course the older ship doesn't have such a capability, but it WASN'T the older ship that dragged its ass into Cobh!! That, as you clearly know yourself, was the newer, nastier warship that has every gizmo available including the capability referred to.

Many thanks for posting the correct image, but no thanks for the pro-imperialist propaganda. A warship is a warship is a warship. This ship is an intrinsic part of the US war machine - a belligerent state - and should not be allowed to tie up in Ireland.

For some interesting Ploughshares info on this ship of death, go to:

http://www.plowsharesactions.org/webpages/PRINCEOFPEACE...S.htm

by AWI (Dublin) Tue Jul 11, 2006 23:02

http://www.plowsharesactions.org/webpages/PRINCEOFPEACE...S.htm

by Joe Wed Jul 12, 2006 00:59

Here's a few facts:

1. The warship USS The Sullivans came into Cobh on Saturday and fucked off on Monday.

2. This same warship - as Anti-War Ireland have pointed out - has nuclear CAPABILITY. Not weapons, but the CAPABILITY to deploy them if necessary. It was the NEW ship, not the auld wreck docked in the US, and the US Navy - let's give them their dues - have state-of-art warships. These are serious chucks of hardware, not toys like the Irish Navy has.

3. The OLD warship is utterly fucking irrelevant. It wasn't in Cobh and Anti-War Ireland have never claimed that it was!

4. This was a WARSHIP belonging to a country that's currently occupying both Afghanistan and Iraq. The United States is at war and Ireland is MEANT to be a neutral country, so should allow belligerent powers to use our airports or ports as staging posts. 100,000 people marched against this war in Dublin on February 15th 2003. 100,000!!!!

5. The Bush adminstration has adopted a gung ho attitude in the Middle East - the other side of the planet - and has killed thousands of people. Planes flying into the 'center' of Cork? Yeah, that would be horrific. 9/11 was horrific. But, what the fuck did Saddam and Iraq have to do with it? 9/11 and the so-called WMD were used as pretexts for aggression and invasion.

6. You say things about 'American values' as if Bush and his cronies represent them and the US. Does Bush represent the intellectual tradition of Walt Whitman, the IWW, or even the founding fathers??? No, he represents a powerful and wealthy elite that are happy to send economic recruits to die in the towns and villages of Iraq. The United States has many positive traditions, but give over this shit that it's a paragon of virtue out to the save the world. Moreover, people like me stand against the US State and the political elite, not against the US citizenry, many of whom protest daily against these imperial wars.

7. Anti-War Ireland have clearly done their research, as has every anti-war activist in this country. We KNOW exactly why we oppose these wars. On the contrary, all you can do is spout weakly argued justifications for a regime that is killing innocent people left, right and centre.

Let's say this loud and clear to the pro-Bush trolls: US warships are NOT welcome in Ireland and will be opposed when they come here. No part or tool of the Bush war machine is welcome in this country!

by John Quinn Wed Jul 12, 2006 02:00

When you make grandiose statement like that, please base them in fact

"US warships are NOT welcome in Ireland and will be opposed when they come here. No part or tool of the Bush war machine is welcome in this country!"

This is clearly incorrect...... Instead you should say US Warships are not welcomed by 3 Irish people and maybe a half dozen more.

Most Irish People value our relationship with the US. I witnessed, recently, a US soldier in Shannon being harrassed by some idiot. This idiot then walked away (escorted by security) thinking he had achieved something. He was not present to witness individual after individual going up to the US Soldier and apologising for the idiots actions. Many Irish people went out of their way to buy the soldier Irish Coffees, extend their gratitude and generally make him welcome for his few hours in Ireland. I'm tired of some people thinking they represent everyone in Ireland and then tarnishing Irelands reputation with their antics.

You do not represent any where near the majority of Irish people. Surely the pitiful attendance at rallies and protests is evidence enough. I mean, are you really proud of the fact that only 16 people bothered to show up at this protest. 10 times more people than that showed up just to take photos. If the ship had been open to the public, I'm sure that thousands would have been queueing up to visit it. When the USS Nicholas visited back in 1996, thousands of people took the oppurtunity to go on board and take tours and meet the sailors.

by someone Wed Jul 12, 2006 02:15

I wasn't just writing about the wrong photo, I was commenting upon the misrepresentation of things in general.

Not once did I say I was for bush or the war in Iraq, yet I am called a "pro-bush troll". How is this going to help change the minds of people with opposing opinions?

What I am saying however is something along the lines that I think you would agree with. And the best example of it is something you brought up. WMD's in Iraq. There the Bush administration goes in front of the world and says look at this photo and here is this intelligence and it says that there are these vary dangerous things here and we must stop them. However their intelligence was poor, in more ways than one, and they were incorrect with what they presented and look what a mess was created by it.

Now here are some individuals here saying well this and that, and here is this fact. Yet they provide little in ways of sites of sources of various types and opposing views. They show photos that are of shoddy intelligence, and then apologize latter for them.

Then from these incorrect facts and shoddy intelligence I hear deplorable things like hang these men and put them in jail for life. And though the threats might never truly be realized isn't just a smaller version of what everyone here seems to think a deplorable act.

You say that you respect Americans and that you are not against US citizenry, yet there is talk of hanging those very people and destroying their lives.

Violence is a very disgusting thing inside of this world, from the smallest fist fight in the pub to the extremities of a war. The promotion of peace and understanding is what I am for. Bush will be gone soon enough. I think it is wrong to judge a whole people, and treat a nation of many descent men and women poorly based upon the sins of the few.

If anything I feel sad for those men and women who have to serve onboard that ship and are subject to such an administration.

The Irish have a navy, and it does good does it not, could an American navy do much much more for the world if left in the care of a better leader? And wouldn't it be the same men and women doing that job? So why put them down and give them a hard time because of some administration half way around the world?

And in regards to my “weakly argued justifications" what was I justifying? Definitely wasn't war, I don't think I mentioned Iraq once in my first statement. My arguments were strong ones about, doing your research and being careful of what you say and how quickly you judge, something or someone.

I would really like to hear what your solutions to the problems in Iraq are though, besides just the United States leaving? Do you really even care about those people? You speak out yet all I hear is name calling and a bunch of propaganda. Offer some solutions, which are realistic and reasonable. Discuss the problems intelligently and productively. Also how does a US Navy warship fight a war in Iraq, from Ireland? The US Navy must do more than just go out and kill people, huh? Or is that what the Irish navy does also? Just goes out and kills people? I mean if that is the only point of warships and everything, why does the Irish navy go out to sea, who are we at war with, thought we were neutral?

by anon Wed Jul 12, 2006 02:44

nobody claimed it was 'intelligence' i, do you really expect us to have the same capabilities as American goverment, who cook it if they can't find it, then the seond part of your reply is based on trolling mad comment which is more likely to come from a right wing troll like a10 who has been writing false posts urging violence and anti-americanism in sarcastic way. The Irish navy protects capital.

by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Ireland Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:37 antiwarireland at gmail dot com

Frankly, I have no intention of responding to anonymous trolls. For those who are curious as to why many Irish, American and British people are campaigning against this war, I humbly suggest that you do a websearch or pick up one of the many books that have been written by advocates of the anti-war position. There is plenty of material out there to keep you busy for a while. Perhaps you might begin with Noam Chomsky's work, but please don't feel restricted!

I do want to make three points.

First, Anti-War Ireland is well aware of the capabilites or otherwise of the USS The Sullivans. However, for us, it would not matter if this warship came equipped with little more than a harpoon gun. We oppose the presence of any instrument of the US war machine in this country. If it's a US Navy warship, it is a part of the machinery of imperial war and will be protested against. The protest, incidentally, was against the US warship, and what it represents, and not against the individual sailors, many of whom may be appalled by the belligerent policies of their current government.

Secondly, as has been pointed above, the purported 'Irish connection' of this warship is being used in a calculated manner to propagandise for the US Navy and, through them, for the war machine in general. Unfortunately, there are those who would be flattered if, say, napalm was renamed after some townland in the west of Ireland. The USS The Sullivans is a weapon of war and it isn't made any cuddlier by naming it after people with Irish connections.

Thirdly, the old 'anti-American' canard, used against the anti-war movement, is particularly ridiculous in these circumstances. On Friday (8.30pm in the Metropole Hotel), Anti-War Ireland in Cork are hosting a public meeting that will be addressed by two leading US anti-war activists. For those who want to hear more about what the anti-war movement believes, please feel free to go to the meeting. All are welcome!

by John Jefferies - Anti-War Ireland (Cobh) Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:44

"I saw people going up to these sailors on the streets of Cobh and telling them that bin laden was a good man"

Who? Where? When? If anybody did any such thing, it was completely unconnected to the protest and the local anti-war movement. I heard nothing of the sort and never saw anything remotely like the incident described. I suspect that this allegation is yet another false claim by a troll.

by OMGWTF Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:16

2. This same warship - as Anti-War Ireland have pointed out - has nuclear CAPABILITY. Not weapons, but the CAPABILITY to deploy them if necessary. It was the NEW ship, not the auld wreck docked in the US, and the US Navy - let's give them their dues - have state-of-art warships. These are serious chucks of hardware, not toys like the Irish Navy has.

Most IRISH NAVY SHIPS ALSO HAVE THIS NUCLEAR CAPABILITY THAT YOU SPEAK OF SON

Having CAPABILITY means jack, and CAPSLOCK makes you clever

by ILL ANSWER Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:37

Ireland's concept of neutrality
There are notable differences between Irish neutrality and traditional types of neutral states:

While most neutral states maintain strong defence forces, Ireland has a relatively small defence force.
While most neutral states do not allow any foreign military within their territory, Ireland has a long history of allowing military aircraft of various nations to refuel at Shannon Airport. Under the Air Navigation (Foreign Military Aircraft) Order, 1952, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, exceptionally, could to grant permission to foreign military aircraft to overfly or land in the State. Confirmation was required that the aircraft in question be unarmed, carry no arms, ammunition or explosives and that the flights in question would not form part of military exercises or operations. In September 2001 these conditions were "waived in respect of aircraft operating in pursuit of the implementation of the Security Council Resolution 1368" (Minister for Foreign Affairs, Dail Debate 17 December 2002). Irish governments have always said that allowing aircraft to use Irish soil does not constitute participation in any particular conflict and is compatible with a neutral stance, instancing the transit of German troops between Finland and Norway through neutral Swedish territory during World War II.
A neutral state may however, allow its citizens, even if they only hold a passport for this particular state, to serve in the armed forces of other, possibly belligerent, nations if the laws of the countries concerned permit them to do so. For example, the Republic of Ireland, even though the Irish Free State became independent from Britain in 1922, still permits its citizens to serve in the British armed forces today. (Switzerland operates a similar policy, allowing its citizens to serve in the armed forces of France, Germany or Italy.)

by MichaelY - iawm Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:37

In case there is some doubt in some people's minds about the ideology and motivation of the Bush Administration, not only towards Iraqis, Afghans, Iranians, Syrians, Palestinians, Cubans, Venezuelans, Mexicans, Colombians and most of us in Europe, please refer to my article re: Bush's policies towards American workers and unions in http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77184.

by Anti-war Wed Jul 12, 2006 16:26

"Where are your protests against the insurgency in Iraq? Where are your protests of Al Qaeda? Do you actively resist those men and women in any manner similar to the way you talk about and treat the American forces? "

The point of staging a protest is not to make a moral statement, the point is to have some kind of influence (it may not happen that way, but that's the goal). So protesting against Al Qaeda or Tawid al Jihad would be totally useless. Bin Laden doesn't care what we think, neither did Al Zarqawi. We could protest all we liked without having any effect. They do care what Muslims think (at least Bin Laden seems to), so the fact that there were protests against Al Zarqawi in Annan after his men bombed civilian targets in Jordan is promising.

We can, on the other hand, hope to influence our own government. It'll take a lot more than this protest to achieve that goal, but you have to build from somewhere.

by Anti-War Ireland (Cork) Wed Jul 12, 2006 17:43

Tonight's Cork Evening Echo carries a photograph of the Labour Party Lord Mayor of Cork city formally meeting the captain of the US warship, USS The Sullivans. Apart from two Irish naval officers, the photographs shows Lord Mayor Michael Ahern (Labour Party) welcoming:

*Paul Flynn, US Army

*Tony J. Parisi, commander in the US Navy (captain of the USS The Sullivans)

In Cobh, indymedia readers will recall, the Labour Party mayor there paid a visit to the warship to welcome the captain to the town.

Where stands the Labour Party's opposition to the war on Iraq and the breaching of Irish 'neutrality' at Shannon?

by AWI (Belfast) Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:42

Good to see the back of this warship.

Meanwhile, solidarity with the Pitstop Ploughshares continues.

Solidarity Picket and Leafleting outside the Irish Tourist Board on Castle St., Belfast again tomorrow - Friday - between 1pm and 2pm.

All help and support welcome! Come along and show your solidarity with these five antiwar activists as they face the Dublin courts for their disarming of a US warplane in Shannon airport in February 2003. Show your support for their direct action against the war!

Organised by Anti-War Ireland

by AWI (Belfast) Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:50

Meant to write USS Sullivans...but if it was HMS that would be equally unwelcome.