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Loveulster - bomb Dublin

category national | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis author Friday December 16, 2005 11:26author by Barry Report this post to the editors

This article was originally written to provide background information on the discussion on the loyalist demonstration in Dublin taking place in January 2006.

Might actually be worth pointing out to some of our southern chums that this is not even an Orange order parade . Willie Frazers Loveulster rally was banned last month from Belfast city centre by the police , so why it should be let through Dublin city centre is a bit of a mystery . Mr Frazer had basically warned the PSNI not to show their faces anywhere near his parade on the Shankill and said he had no problem with loyalist paramilitaries taking part in it . This was in the aftermath of UDA gun and bomb attacks on the PSNI in Belfast . A bit of a strange attitude for a campaigner on behalf of murdered security forces personnel dont you think ?

Not altogether surprising saying that prominent loyalist paramiltaries from the UDA ,including their "brigadier" Jackie McDonald mimicked the landing of the UVFs guns in 1912 at Larne at Loveulsters launch by collecting the bundles of Loveulsters newspaper at Larne harbour in a recent publicity stunt . Jackie McDonald is a well known ( and convicted) paramilitary gangster , extortionist and purveyor of all manner of goods as is commensurate with his standing as UDA brigadier for south Belfast , which he doesnt deny . And hes also a senior activist within Loveulster .

Basically it was the UDA and other paramilitaries which were involved in distributing the Shankill Mirror "Loveulster" news sheet . When this parades organisers talk of loyalist "community activists" attending thats basically what it means . Killers , gangsters , drug peddlers , you name it . Some of the community activists who blockaded Harryville chapel and orchestrated the Holy Cross abomination where sectarian abuse , balloons filled with urine , pornography and even a pipebomb were thrown at primary school children by loyalist "community activists from the shankill" .These same community activists are now prominent in attending the Loveulster rallies were claims that protestants are being ethinically cleansed etc are par for the course without a tongue in cheek in sight ..

A regular attendant and helper outer at Loveulster events is the UDAs new Shankill brigadier who was chosen by others such as Jackie McDonald . This overweight thug just happens to be a convicted rapist as well as being heavily involved in the local drugs trade . Updates on his drug dealing activities are an almost weekly feature of northern Sunday tabloids .

Hardly a surprise then that Mr Frazers other " victims" group was banned by Newry and Mourne council from using council property and Mr Frazer himself has had his personal protection handgun removed from him by the authorities because of some of the questionable company he keeps .

A few other facts about this parade and its organisers people may be unaware of . Willie Frazer from Markethill in S Armagh also campaigns on behalf of his self created victims group FAIR . Its based in SArmagh and deals solely with complaing about the killings of local RUC and UDR men from that area . The residents of Dublin may not be aware that it was a gang of UDR and RUC from that very area which bombed the heart out of Dublin in 1974 , killing and maiming dozens of innocent Dubliners in a series of no warning carbombs . Indeed the bombs were constructed and ferried to Dublin on the farm of an RUC man in South Armagh , with the assistance of local UDR men and officers and British army intelligence . They were also responsible for a wave of brutal sectarian atrocities both sides of the border , where families were lined up and shot in their farmhouses and no warning bombs targetting civilians were a trademark .

Some examples of Willie Frazers RUC/UDR "victims" handiwork were the random abduction and murder of 2 GAA supporters near Newtonhamilton (were recently the local council banned Willie Frazers group from using the community hall) . The killers were local UDR and RUC , who wore their uniforms and set up a checkpoint in order to kill the first "taigs" that passed . South Armagh based UDR and RUC men were also responsible for the co ordinated massacres of the Reavey and ODowd families , both lined up in their isolated homes and riddled with UDR issue weaponry .

While some will no doubt point out that not all UDR and RUC men were loyalist killers its worth remembering that there werent exactly very many RUC/UDR from an area like S Armagh . The proportion of security force members from that small area involved in paramilitary murders and organisations was quite high by any standards ( particularly Newtonhamilton and Markethill) . And among those that were executed by republicans much higher still . People fom S Armagh know exactly who and what many of Willies "victims" were all about and what they did . As does he .

The mother of the Reavey brothers reported that when she was returning home from the hospital morgue after identifying the bodies of her family she was stopped in S Armagh by the RUC who knew exactly who she was and were she was just coming from . Despite this they forced her out on the road and made her open the boot of the car . Inside the boot were the bloodstained and bullet riddled clothes of her family which the RUC threw on the ground , trampled and then spat on . Mrs Reavey is not a republican and has no reason whatsoever to recount a story like this to a newspaper unless it happened as she said .

Its hardly a surprise then that the IRA in south Armagh went after the RUC and UDR around Markethill and Newtonhamilton with a vengeance . A number of those "victims" Willie Frazer complains were ethnically cleansed have since been identified as leading members of a gang which committed mass murder throughout the S Armagh area , Dundalk , Monaghan and Dublin .

They wore their uniforms again in order to stop and murder the Miami Showband . In fact a surviving member of that gang , former UDR man James Somerville , whose UDR brother Wesley died attempting to blow up the Miami could even possibly be in Dublin for the parade . Maybe the guards would like to have a wee chat with him about the Dublin Monaghan massacre and a few other random murders around Dundalk ?

Mr Somerville did a wee spot behind bars for the Miami massacre and was a key member of this gang . Hes also a very vocal supporter and attender of these Loveulster events when not attending to his flock on the Shankill rd . Mr Somerville is a born again bible bashing bigot currently in cahoots with another bible bashing bigot , convicted bomber and long time associate of the Adair family Pastor Clifford Peebles . Both men recently took over the fundamentalist Bethel tabernacle church on the Shankill rd . When not railing from the pulpit against catholics ( whom both men have bombed) , gays and muslims they both attend Loveulster rallies and parades .

The orangemen in attendance will of course be those from the Shankill who recently went berserk when their parade through a catholic area was rerouted 50 yards and burned , bombed and shot all over Belfast for 3 nights running . Dozens of automatic rounds and blast bombs were thrown at the PSNI which these orangemen refused to condemn . It was clear they were up to their necks with the people behind it .

So there you have it . the loveulster afficionadoes , a motley crew of religious fundamentalists , drug dealers , pipe bombers and God knows what else being welcomed to Dublin .

It would almost be funny were it not for the fact that Willie Frazer and his fellow campaigners on behalf of South Armaghs UDR and RUC " victims" that bombed Dublin and Monaghan will be marching waving union jacks and banging a big drum only yards from the spot were one of those South Armagh RUC/UDR car bombs ripped through a street full of Dublin citizens . Willie will be complaining to the world how South Armaghs fallen RUC /UDR victims were ignored and foully murdered . Only yards away theres a small monument to the many victims of Willies UDR/RUC "victims" . Yet those innocents who fell at the hands of South Armaghs RUC / UDR wont be getting a parade , were ignored totally for 30 years and still cant get any help from the Garda . Therell probably be as many Garda man hours spent protecting this band of bigots as were expended on the entire farcical Dublin Monaghan investigation . To me thats a disgrace . These bigots should have no place on the streets of Dublin or any other civilised town ,especially not just yards away from the Lower Parnell street area .

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=73452
author by Big Joepublication date Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Its good to see you are well informed about these individuals who want to amke a show of us by marching tnrough our city. It is basically a UVF/UFF etc march through dublin and it cannot be allowed be a success for them. It will inflame opinion and be totally bad for the peace process. Have spoke to alot of people and we are all agreed that this march will not be allowed be a success...

author by Barrypublication date Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just because bigots , racists and gangsters are protestants doesnt mean they should have a platform . Youth Defence are like the Quakers compared to this bunch but theres no great outcry from the left about this which stinks of hypocricy .

Myself and a few mates are thinking of popping down too for a nosey , just to see whos there . Knowing the calibre of a few of the punters wholl be attending theres a fair chance theyll make a night of it and should easily be found around the lapdancing clubs afterwards if they think its safe . Which they probably do now .

There will be some extremely evil and unpleasant individuals attached to this parade of bigots . Wheres Frank Ryan and Sean Russell when you need them ?

author by Joepublication date Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thanks for all that info Barry which if accurate would certainly change things quite a bit. Do you have any mainstream sources for it that readers could confirm the claims from? I'm not saying I don't believe you but its much easier to argue this sort of thing if for instance some or all of it has already appeared in the mainstream press without any subsequent retractions.

Also in reference to your claims about the "RUC and UDR around Markethill and Newtonhamilton" - are we to understand that those killed were directly involved in the events you outlined or just that some of the RUC and UDR in that area were? I've not seen your claims before and it would be well worth while fleshing it out a lot more. I've protestant relations on the southern side of that region of the border and it is certainly quite widely believed that there was an element of land grabbing / ethnic cleansing going on with the IRA campaign there. Your claims would throw a different light on why the RUC and UDR seemed to be particularly targetted in that region.

In terms of RUC and UDR men killed who may have had a direct connection with the events of that period there would seem to be no reason why you can't name them and give further details if you have such information to hand.

author by Barrypublication date Sun Dec 18, 2005 00:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Joe ,I suggest you get a read of Don Mullans book on Dublin Monaghan as well as that of Joe Tiernans ( Dublin Monaghan and the Murder Triangle) . Both written by reputable and experienced journalists . Toby Harndens book on South Armagh isnt great but carries some interesting details on those killings as well .

According to RUC sergeant John Weir , a convicted member of the south armagh UDR/RUC deathsquad , the activities of south armaghs crown killers took 2 forms . Firstly directly taking part in bombings and shootings both sides of the border themselves and secondly ensuring UVF killers had a clear run of the roads . The second option involved collusion on a wider scale amongst south armaghs RUC and UDR than the smaller group directly involved in actual hands on killings. Indeed the UVF seem to have wanted this to be the locals main activity as their direct involvement was so obvious it was bringing the local security forces involvement out in the open .

For example the direct involvement of UDR members in the Miami showband massacre ,where they set up a bogus UDR checkpoint .

A further example was when the 2 GAA supporters where stopped and murdered at a bogus UDR checkpoint in Newtonhamilton . A full half hour beforehand an RUC car found itself stopped by the very same checkpoint . Despite being discovered by local security forces the bogus checkpoint remained in place and waited for victims . Their casual nonchalance indicated to local people that the killers KNEW the local RUC and UDR would not act against them or impede their activities . The attitude locally was then that crown forces from South Armagh were all up to their necks in sectarian killings in some shape or form .

Other examples were in the Reavey and ODowd massacres . As Ive pointed out earlier Mrs Reavey received disgraceful attention from local security forces after the massacre of her sons . It took one of her sons a fortnight to die in hospital and she travelled to Belfast every day to see him . Every single day she travelled local police and UDR would stop her car on the way to the hospital and on her return . Thats twice a day for 2 weeks . They would take her and her daughter out on the road to taunt and search them for at least half an hour at a time . They regularly searched through their clothes,hair and even behind their ears , joking about how they might be hiding explosives behind their ears . The bullet riddled and bloodstained clothes of her sons were even taken from the boot of her car when she returned from the morgue , trampled and spat upon by local RUC officers . Ever since the massacre the Reavey family have been constantly searched and harassed by local crown forces for over 20 years .

The ODowd family ( an SDLP family ) also reported how the day before the massacre at their home a large contingent of UDR soldiers combed the fields beside the house and carried out surveillance . This was the only time the fields had ever been searched , and the killers struck the very next night (simultaneously with the attack on the Reavey home )

The attack on Donnellys bar in Silverbridge and the simultaneous bombing of Kays tavern in Dundalk are another example . A few days before the pub massacre local RUC swamped the bar . They brazenly sketched the details of the inside of the pub and even asked were the exits usually locked or unlocked . A few days later the pub was bombed and raked with gunfire . 3 people were killed and others wounded . A bomb exploded outide Kays tavern the same evening killing a number of people in Dundalk . South Armagh republicans knew without a doubt local members of the UDR and RUC were deeply implicated in this campaign of mass murder .

These events unsurprisingly feulled the ferocity with which South Armagh republicans went after local Crown forces recruits . A factor also was the common knowledge that the UVF to all intents and purposes was run from its rural strongholds in Armagh , and that membership of local crown forces within the UVF since the outbreak of the troubles was quite common .

Among those killed in that area was UDR man Ross Hearst , who transported the bomb into Monaghan town . He was shot alongside his UDR daughter who was also involved with local loyalist paramilitaries .

RUC sergeant Jimmy hunter from near that area was heavily involved in the supply of explosives to the local killers. He was gunned down outside warrenpoint RUC station .

2 related RUC men from Newtown , whose names escape me at present were also senior UVF men who were bumped off by republicans . A man named McCooey from Crossmaglen was jailed for whacking one of them .

More prominent still was UDR corporal Robert McConnell , one of the Dublin Monaghan bombers and a well known member of 8 platoon UDR based in Newtonhamilton . McConnell was a senior local Orange man and a prominent member and worker at St Johns Church of Ireland in Newtonhamilton . A fine upstanding member of the local protestant community when not prowling the roads as a prolific serial killer and mass murderer . Along with 2 local policemen and another UDR man he led the attack on the Reavey home , the massacre at Donnellys in silverbridge as well as planting another carbomb accross the border in Castleblayney. That bomb killed a local man and injured 17 others . Not long after this McConnell was tracked down by the IRA to his farmhouse in Tullyvallen and executed . ( the earlier republican massacre at Tullyvallen Orange hall was aimed at wiping out him and his associates however McConnell was unfortunately not present when his brethren were attacked . He was actually a member of the nearby Cladybeg lodge). McConnell was directly responsible for the murders of dozens of civilians both sides of the border . His funeral was attended by dignataries such as NIO officials representing the Secretary of State Merlyn Rees , the UDRs overall commander Brigadier Mervyn McCord and its colonel commandant and now army General Sir John Anderson .,

A senior Armagh RUC man Harry Breen is also well known to have colluded with loyalist killers in that locality during this period . The IRA in South Armagh had been trying to get him from the 1970s but didnt succeed untill the early 90s when he was ambushed outside Jonesboro and whacked out of it alongside his chum Bob Buchanan after meeting the Garda in Dundalk . Ironically he met his end at an IRA checkpoint .

Another prominent fine upstanding respectable member of South Armaghs protestant community is former RUC man laurence McClure , who unfortunately wasnt shot dead and lives in a lovely big house with a beautiful wife in South Armagh today . Willie Frazer would know this respectable and successful south Armagh former policeman very well indeed . McClure regularly accompanied his best freind Corporal McConnell on virtually all his murder missions and was responsible for over 20 murders himself . Sergeant McClure was questioned about the Silverbridge murders along with local woman Lily Shiels . Lily was the girlfriend of RUC man James Mitchell whose South Armagh farmhouse was used to prepare the Dublin Monaghan bombs as well as to plan and launch almost all the massacres and cross border attacks south armaghs RUC and UDR were involved in during the 1970s . It was still being used as a base in the 80s and 90s by Billy Wright and his gang , all of this occuring with the knowledge of the British army and RUC special branch . Sergeant John Weir ,from county Monaghan originally , confirmed that at the beginning of his terrorist career he was approached by 2 special branch detectives who told him they knew full well what he was at and wished him luck . Instead of being discarded as a rotten apple Weir found himself to be the youngest ever RUC man to be promoted to the rank of sergeant and put in command of Newtonhamilton and Crossmaglen RUC stations .

This talk of ethnic cleansing of protestants from South Armagh is a nonsense when one considers that there are small protestant communities located in Crossmaglen and in nearby Creggan , both IRA strongholds for the entire troubles . Those protestant communities have lived untouched throughout the entire campaign and remain untouched today . Their spokespersons have pointed out repeatedly that they enjoyed and still enjoy excellent community relations and have never had single attack on their persons even in the darkest days of the troubles . Thats because they are decent people who never harmed their neighbours or took to the roads as UDR and RUC , despite being unionists .

So people really should understand how nasty , despicable and slimy Willy Frazers FAIR group is as an organisation as well as its origins when considering their decision to parade through Dublin . FAIR came to prominence after a very strange episode in the house of Commons concerning the Reavey family . Eugene Reavey whose brothers were murdered had become an extremely successful local businessman . He began a lobby group aimed at getting a public enquiry into why no one had ever been charged with the massacre at his home and the fact UDR issue weapns were used . His campaign was gaining prominence when all of a sudden IAN Paisley used parliamentary privelege in the House of Commons and named him as the leader of the republican gang which massacred 10 local orangemen in Kingsmills in south armagh , the day after the Reavey and ODowd massacres . Paisley had been supplied with a dossier containing this information by elements within the security services and he believed it to be true . It wasnt , neither Eugene Reavey or any member of his family are connected to the republican movement in any way . However some very well connected people in the security establishment decided it was in their interests to have Eugene Reaveys campaign discredited and overshadowed by negative publicty . It was shortly after this disgraceful episode blackening the Reavey family and their quest for justice that Willie Frazer and his group emerged campaigning on behalf of South Armaghs poor persecuted UDR men . This parade through Dublin should berecognised as simply a cynical exercise dancing on the graves of the victims of south armaghs UDR on the streets of Dublin . The only people in attendance will be scumbags whod laugh their heads off if Dublin Monaghan happened again tomorrow . The no good sick bastards should be chased out of it .

author by Jerrypublication date Thu Dec 22, 2005 20:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The british only want to retain our land (6 counties) and if they were honest in fulfilling their obligations relating to the GFA, then one would have to question why they supposedly suspended Stormont in 2002 based on 'IRA intelligence gathering' when it was revealed that the british had spies themselves a short time ago and where no such evidence was given to back up the assertion of 'IRA intelligence gathering'.

author by Barrypublication date Thu Dec 22, 2005 20:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Their primary obligation under the GFA is to continue with British rule in Ireland ., which is why people like Denis Donaldson were so passionate about the GFA .

Ulsterisation , Normalisation , Criminalisation of prisoners , making some form of British rule acceptable . wrapped up nicely under the GFA .

They are the only "left wing revolutionary " group in the world to be welcomed into the US by Henry Kissinger for example . And Denis Donaldson was the head man in the US , getting rid of Martin Galvin and anyone else who wasnt " on message" .

People may scratch their heads and think about that one for a while . Why is that you reckon ? Henry Kissinger welcoming a left wing revolutionary movement , speeches and dinner ? With Henry Kissinger ?

author by rinagaeilgepublication date Tue Dec 27, 2005 00:25author email rinagaeilge at hotmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

And in relation to the protest . Caithfear cuir ina gcoinne. Please tell us your email cos we want to stop their orange flavoured ráiméis. If interested drop me a line and we will resist!!!!!!

author by Joe Publicpublication date Tue Dec 27, 2005 05:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

No terrorist should be allowed march on O'Connell street and that includes Barry's beloved scumbags.

Barry,
Reading the above you could be mistaken for thinking you support the PSNI. thats laughable really, of course we all know the only honourable murderer is an IRA one.

author by Barrypublication date Fri Dec 30, 2005 18:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

One of the main organisers of this parade is FAIR founder member Brian McConnell from south Armagh . Brian is the nephew of Corporal Robert McConnell , a key member of the gang which bombed Dublin and whose activities I have outlined above .

And Willie Frazers UDR father was also a member of the UVF in South Armagh . Cant believe I forgot to mention that .

author by Barrypublication date Fri Dec 30, 2005 18:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A wee snippet from Frazer and McConnels website

http://www.victims.org.uk/31-08-05c.htm

author by roosterpublication date Sat Dec 31, 2005 15:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

just because someone is the nephew/cousin/son of someone?

author by pólpublication date Sat Dec 31, 2005 17:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

out on the streets to stop the GPO of being subjected to this imperialist march from our opressors and planters, the GPO is our central symbol to resistence and our birth place of the true irish repuublic. block the parade, its an event and excuse to intimiade, and advertise bigitry and hatred from right-wing facists in our capital. dont let them celebrate imperialism, end the empire in ireland. stop the parade

author by michael fallonpublication date Sat Dec 31, 2005 18:20author address author phone 0860789099Report this post to the editors

The notion of those sectarian biggots marching down our beloved streets especially near lower parnell st makes me sick. They are coming down to Dublin to get a angry reaction from us dubs and to cause trouble. These people are hooligans and terrorists and nothing else. We should ignore the terrorists on there so called march. That would realy annoy them.

author by roosterpublication date Mon Jan 02, 2006 15:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

how he knows so much about the parade and the parade organisers intentions??

author by Barrypublication date Mon Jan 02, 2006 20:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

But the fact the Loveulster people were banned from Belfast city centre and confined to a park on the shankill road and had known killers drugdealers and gangsters distributing their paper might be a slight clue as to their intentions .

author by kintamapublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 00:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I wasnt aware of any specific threat to bomb Dublin by the RIRA but a live threat still remains from groups involved in the 'Love Ulster' campaign. The facts are that people not too far removed from the organiser of this rally were involved in bombing Dublin with the specific intention of killing as many civilians as possible. It is highly likely that very many of those intending to go to the rally still view Dublin as a legitimate target. I am not aware of threats made by loyalists to bomb Dublin being retracted the assumption must be therefore that it remains a target.
I have no problem with the fact that you clearly dislike the RIRA however to suggest that you need to worry more about them in Dublin than some of the 'Love Ulster' brigade is fanciful.

author by seamuspublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 14:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think they should be assisted in any way possible by the governrmnet to express their ideals in a free and democratic society. I think nobody should riot as that would only give creedence to their arguement that they are the vicitms. They should get the same treatment as the protesting farmers when they parade down to Leinster House. Give them room and completely ignore them. Give them the maximum amount of protection from Irish security forces and ensure that their freedoms are protected. They should be treated the same way as the PSNI officers who came down in uniform and rode their police bikes into Croke Park for the Special Olympics. They should be treated the same way as the PSNI officers who trained in Templemore prior to going overseas. Respect their opinions and their right to free speech. Their arguement against a united Ireland has always been that they would be mistreated and their religion would be disrespected. This is a great opportunity to prove them wrong. We don't have to agree with them but we have a chance here to prove to the world that we are better than them. Dubliners should simply ignore their flags and banners and treat them with the same contempt that everybody else from outside Dublins gets when they go to Dublin. I wonder if the local gurriers will be out selling union flags to the northern culchies like they do outside every sporting event.

author by Sideshowbobpublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 15:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

My God, i have heard enough of this absolute soul destroying liberal garbage. You liberal idiots have lost the plot and know no bounds on any issue. You think the sit back and be walked all over attitude is the way to deal with every issue, situation, crisis etc. In life people have to make a stand sometimes. If they didn't the world would be run my the likes of hitler. Thats why liberals have no place in world politics. You have no sense of pride, nationalism or feelings for the victims of their violence, especially the parnell st. bomb victims, whose perpartrators and associates will be marching. You are naive to think by letting them walk all over our city with their banners and anti irish material, that they will decide they want a united ireland. All they will decide is that we are a bunch of idiots to let them march where no one else will and they will be busy about planning more and more all over ireland. Your only negetive comment is towards your own kind, a poor young fella trying to make a few bob whom you call a gurrier. I think you should be on the march cause you are obviously a classic wanna be anglo sad person aka a west brit.. This march must be stopped.

author by democratpublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 15:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Democracy has many virtues. It allows sideshowbob to rant, rave and malign people - eg if they disagree with him, they are west brits. I think the man is talking complete poppycock - but I absolutely defend his right to do so.

However, I am not a nationalist (I am a humanist and an internationalist, and I see no reason to feel national pride over a group that I belong to entirely by accient of birth), and therefore I feel rather tolerant to peopel of unionist orientation. But even leaving that aside, I don't think that Sideshowbob's right to make an ass of himself - and he has that right - shoudl extend to giving him teh right to decide what opinions are legitimate enough to express in public. That would be fascism!

Let a hundred flowers bloom. Let everyone have their point of view, however daft, offensive or idiotic. No to the suppression of free speech. Long live sideshowbob's right to be a pillock.

author by Sideshowbobpublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 17:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

God, another ones of yous. Yes democracy is great cause i can let you and your type know what i think of your ridiculous, weak and pathetic opinions. You liberals are all the same. Like to let on yous are all easy going, tolerating, liberal and respect everyones opinions. That is until something gets your ears up like the government, abortion, the church, civil rights etc.. then your tone changes very quickly and the false easy going, liberal stance all changes. Yous don't fool me. I see this march as wrong, not some democratic right of those marching. It is offensive, provocotive and wrong in every sense but the likes of you and your soul selling type would be afraid to say boo to these people cause you you are not irish, you are this new modern 'nobody type' with no identity except with your similar likeminded people. While yous sit back and discuss your liberal crap over a gin and tonic, the rest of us in the real world have to live in it and deal with the reality of situations.. I am not the pillock, you are the sad idiot..

author by democratpublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 18:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Usually, it clarifies issues if people stay calm. Loud ranting is self evidently self defeating. So - calm down, SSB.

The arguments advanced thus far in favour of preventing this march do not actually address my concerns about democracy. Ranting about people drinking gin and tonic ( a drink I tend to ignore in favour of Guinness) doesn't really address the points I have made.

I am worried that by denying some people their democratic rights then we extend the same intolerance to more and more groups in society. It is hard to be half a virgin, or semi-faithful: likewise, it is hard to be half a democrat. Once you let the genie of intolerance out of the bottle, I would be worried that the hatred Sideshowbob has shown here - aimed not just at the marchers, but at people like me who defend their right to march - will then just get completely out of control.

Frankly, I don't want Sideshowbob or anyone else for that matter determining who shoudld be allowed to voice their opinions and who should not. That is fascism. Again, let a hundred flowers bloom - we have nothing to fear from debate and dissent. But we have a lot to fear from its suppression, wven when (as is the case with these marchers) their opinions are grotesque.

author by sideshowbobpublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 21:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

i don't hate these people, i see them more as sad and trying to inflame hatred. Other countries tend to ban marches that are seen as provocative and this march was banned from most parts of the north, Also, republican marches ae banned in Britain. is that the suppression of speech? Opinions are allowed but marching through sensitive streets waving provocative flags is nothing more than incitement and can do no good, regardless of its symbol as allowing them the freedom to march. Ok let them march but who is t blame if the incitement inflames feelings and trouble occurs. Regardless of the techicalities of what constitutes the freedom of speech, this march is wrong, the sum of the parts are greater than the whole. Why should this country turn into a pathetic politically correct place where we have lost our spine, our history and become a doormat for these loyalist thugs. We live in a democracy, fully agreed but i can tell you if this went to the people, the vast majority would say no to the march. Is that not democracy now, democrate...

Ps. Guniness is good :-)

author by Democratpublication date Tue Jan 03, 2006 21:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

hi there SSB - nice to see that you are now talking rather than shouting.

I think democracy means more than a majority vote: it also means that the majority allows the minority to express their viewpoint, by all reasonable means, however unreasonable or even offensive that viewpoint is. So if for example most Germans circa 1933 supported the Nazis, you would be hard pushed to call the resultant suppression of free speech a democracy.

The people you oppose may be deluded, misguided or worse - and I agree that they are. But as a democrat I defend absolutely their right, as I defend yours, to any viewpoint that you cherish.

Once you limit the right of people that you oppose to express their opinions or march in support of them you are on the road to a dictatorship. Such a society is not worth having. I hope I can convince you to agree!

author by Barrypublication date Wed Jan 04, 2006 00:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The places these people run are a virtual no go area for catholics . Only a few months ago they were threatening to defecate on and dig up graves . Their protest involved chanting sectarian abuse and blaring rave music as catholics tended graves in Carnmoney . The thugs that bombed and abused schoolgirls at holy cross are now going to don sashes and beat drums outside the GPO .

They are regularly feted in Aras an Uachtaran as it is . Jackie McDonald an out and out gangster and leader of a bunch of sectarian killers and drug dealers is able to play golf with McALeeses husband whenever hes down south .

They know full well the people who run the south will let them walk all over them . Idiots in a number of towns have invited loyalist flute bands south for years and theyre still every bit as bigotted . They just laugh at the fools . What the southern liberals will never realise or accept is that these people dont hate us because they think we are intolerant . They hate us because they believe we are an inferior species . Thats how theyve been raised , to believe they are superior and they have the right to walk over us . Letting them march past the GPO is only encouraging them in that view . Bending over backwards to accomodate them gains only their contempt , not respect or mutual understanding .

Yet these liberals never open their fucking mouths about democratic rights when garda files into mass murder go missing . The people of Dublin should be marching over this travesty alone but theres no outrage in the liberal led media , not a word about the rights of those families Frazer and McConnells relatives slaughtered .. Not a word of the insult of thse people from South Armagh parading yards from the scene of carnage in honour of their dead mass murdering relatives who carried the bloody massacre out !! While the state still suppresses the truth !!.

That is a stinking disgrace , it is a travesty . No amount of liberal ballsology can obscure it . If they argued on behalf of those Irish people the state continues to commit a huge injustice to you could at least half stomach their fawning pro Brit affectations . But of course they dont , and wont .

author by -publication date Wed Jan 04, 2006 14:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

see this picture in www.portadownnews.com/06Jun05.htm
or
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrbultitude/15972458/in/pool-northernireland/

i Prod
i Prod

author by annabelpublication date Wed Jan 04, 2006 15:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You know, Europe gave nazis full democratic rights once before. didn't work out too well.

author by Barrypublication date Wed Jan 04, 2006 16:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

they gave these people their own parliament and paramilitary militia and look how that worked out

author by democratpublication date Wed Jan 04, 2006 17:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Barry

and your point is?

It could be taken as being that since the Orange Order behaved badly in the past in terms of suppressing the Catholic community, now it is our turn, and we are determiend to show that we are at least as bad as them....

Alternatively, we could just try to do better. Peace and love!

author by roosterpublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 01:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

you will find good and bad the orange is no different!

author by barrypublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 04:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

the ghouls of carnmoney cemetery , holy cross harryville and the dublin/ monaghan massacre will be opposed . your bullshit concerns for eoighan harris democracy will be quite irrelevant

author by pragmatic solutionspublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 04:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The march by these loyalists will be a success,
why? because the moronic elements within Irish Republicanism are determined to give these loyalist thugs exactly what they want, confrontation.

Once they are met with confrontation they will have achieved their goal.

And by the way , Barry, you are right. The loyalists/ruc/udr were just as efficient of murdering bastards as their counterparts in the pira/inla/rira/cira.

if the legitimate government of this republic had any sense they would arrest the marchers and the counter protesters and intern the lot of them together on one of our uninhabited islands so that while they were busy butchering each other the rest of the decent law abiding citizens of this island could live in peace free from either sides bigoted bullshit and murderous activities.

dublin, monaghan, omagh, eniskillen all bombed by scum,stinking filthy low down cowardly scum, the only difference is the warped sick ideologies they follow .

author by roosterpublication date Thu Jan 05, 2006 16:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

sorry barry but I don't know who this eoghian harris is!
And you put down a list of atrocities, I could oblige with another list of atrocities from the other side but what would that accomplish???

author by SF?publication date Sun Jan 22, 2006 22:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

whats the response of SF/Fianna Eireann/ OSF/RSF/IRSM and so on?

author by barrypublication date Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Heres the scottish supporters of loveulster protesting at the bloody sunday commemoration in glasgow . they are the guys from the loyalist calton radio support group which is strongly linked to frazers campaign

http://www.caltonradio.com/modules.php?name=Topics

calton radio organised the protest and its site carried instructions on how the protest should be conducted

this is what they call a " red hand salute" which they claim is to show your loyalty and love for ulster and isnt a nazi salute in any way at all .

these supporters of frazers campaign will also be among the 1000 or so marching through dublin accompanied by numerous bands

red hand salute - not a nazi one
red hand salute - not a nazi one

loyalty and love of ulster - coming to dublin quite shortly
loyalty and love of ulster - coming to dublin quite shortly

author by Barrypublication date Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

accompanied by frazers staements

http://www.caltonradio.com/modules.php?name=News&file=categories&op=newindex&catid=1

however those on the left who believe its sectarian to oppose these people marching in dublin can pride themselves on how civilised they are .

author by Barrypublication date Thu Jan 26, 2006 17:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Larry Pratt who is president of a right wing gun organisation and whose been closely linked to the KKK and other racist groups in the US is another dubious associate of Frazer and even travelled the whole way to south armagh to meet Willie recently

heres some background on the racist Pratt

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,94912,00.html

Bushes mate Ashcroft had to distance himself from Pratt when his racist activities and KKK links came under press scrutiny

And heres Frazers website speaking in defence of him
and thanking him for visiting FAIR in south armagh

http://www.victims.org.uk/kkknonsense.html

why someone linked to the Klan would travel the whole way to south armagh to visit willie and Brian McConnell is an interesting one .

kkk man larry pratt pictured alongside John Ashcroft
kkk man larry pratt pictured alongside John Ashcroft

author by Barrypublication date Thu Jan 26, 2006 18:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Frazers associate Larry Pratt , whom Frazer describes on his site as a "gentleman ", shared a platform with Ku Klux Klan and White supremacist Aryan Nation racists and nazis .

http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/Sunday_Tribune/arts2004/apr25_IMC_Pratt_FAIR__SMcKay.php

author by /////???publication date Thu Jan 26, 2006 18:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Rooster Eoghan Harris is another Irish atrocity!

author by nuisance nedpublication date Thu Jan 26, 2006 19:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Next month in Dublin there will be quite a sizable parade-

A parade supported by nazi saluting skinhead goons wholl be travelling from scotland to participate

Supported as well by rightwing sectarian killers with links to neo nazi groups such as combat 18 and whove been responsible for scores of racist attacks in Northern Ireland . Wholl be marching alongside their scottish freinds .

Organised by a group with links to White supremacists and nazis in the US as youve proven with those links . And who stand by their association with that White supremacist named Pratt , despite public criticism which they dismiss .

Organised and supported by individuals and groups , linked to , and directly responsible for the BIGGEST MASS MURDER in the Irish states history . Mass murder of ordinary working class Dubliners .

Organised by an immediate relative of the leader of the gang which massacred dozens of working class dubs

A massacre McDowell , Bertie and the branch have been covering up and refusing to have an enquiry into .

I believe all of the above to be a correct and fair observation ?

And the activists who post here boasting about thumping a watery little squirt like Justin Barrett ?

About no platform for facists and racists ?

Boasting about how they defend the Irish working class ( except when they get bombed to bits apparently)

They havent got a lot to say about all this do they ? The real thing right on their doorstep !!!

I wouldnt rely on too many of them showing up Bazza . Defacing Connollys statue and shouting at the puny Barratt and the elderly Ni chonaill is the height of their revolutionary prowess .

Ordinary Dubliners will make their voices heard though , you can depend on that .

author by AFA Memberpublication date Thu Jan 26, 2006 20:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

AFA is a single issue campaign. If it looks as if there are going to be fascists on the march then it is likely we will be there as AFA. If not I am sure that plenty of those in AFA will be along as individuals.

AFA had nothing to do with defacing the Conolly statue, it was carried out by children and life style "Anarchists". As for the beheading of the Sean Russell statue I would like to get my hands on those responsible. Sean Russell was a brave Republican who loved his country too well and made the mistake of supping with the devil. But he was never a fascist or even pro German.

You will find nothing in AFA literature that links Republicanism with fascism. You will find plenty about the loyalist links.

author by Barrypublication date Thu Jan 26, 2006 21:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Republicans are well aware that the messing at connollys statue had nothing to do with AFA , as well as the fact people with a bit more wit made amends

The attack on Russels statue was most likely by pro british elements .

Theres a lot more at stake here than just opposing a loyalist march . I would actually welcome unionists marching in their capital to have greivances addressed

Ordinary Dubliners were massacred , thhen forgotten . Their relatives are still shamefully treated today . the state still suppresses the truth and has hidden the files , illegally .

The people and organisations which did it are coming to Dublin to hold a parade . Willie Frazer is on record as stating no loyalist paramilitaies should ever have went to jail . He is on record as an associate of loyalist paramilitaries and has been refused a gun license as a result .

His organisation has the direct support and participation of the extreme right in Britain and the US . He associates openly with a prominent member of the extre right , a notorious white supremacist . Pratt not only visited Frazer in South Armagh but has assisted him in giving a lecture tour in the US.

This isnt unionism seeking redress or understanding . Its an insult and act of intimidation

feel the love
feel the love

author by Dublin Exilepublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Come off it Barry.

A loyalist band march through a catholic enclave is intimidation, but up through the main street of the capital city?

I dont think too many of my fellow Dubs will be intimidated by a couple of hundred politically motivated marchers. After all we weren't intimidated by republican marchers over the years, we aren't intimidated by anarchist marchers, or pro-lifers.

Perhaps you feel its an act of Provocation? If so then you have to decide whether to get provoked or not. If you do, who gains? If you ignore them, who gains?

Use your head.

author by Curiouspublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Would you equally assent to the BNP or KKK walking down the streets of Dublin?

author by Barrypublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 18:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Its over a 1000 open bigots who make no bones about it accompanied by neo nazis and sectarian killers .

certainly thats intimidation

and its my capital and ill protest if i want . And I wont be alone either .

author by amusedpublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 18:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

so, given barry's comments and hysteria, i'd say we will have one bunch of bigots/ morons protesting against another. i would suggest that we locate some deserted island, transport them all to it, and leave them at each other's thorats. It would be cheaoer than policing their mayhem.

author by Barrypublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 19:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

your contribution is extremely well thought out although a tad impractical

or maybe its just inane noise

author by amusedpublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 20:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

barry - you invariably respond to comments on your views with the suggestion that they are 'inane noise. to save you the trouble of thinking, in the evidently unlikely event that the desire ever occurs to you, may i helpfully suggest that you just respond to all comments with the headline and content: inane noise? It woudl save you and everyone else a great deal of trouble.
or you are free to keep on entertaining us.

author by barrypublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 21:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This march is very likely to happen . A counter protest will most likely happen . The possibility of people being sent to a remote desert island is highly unlikely . In fact it is the idiotic musings of a total fantasist with nothing remotely sensible to add .

In short your contribution is inane , extremely so . Now shoo if thats all you have to add .

And who is "us" who are so amused ? More fantasy ?

author by amusedpublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 21:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

oh barry - I am scared. shoo you say, so shoo I must. I will leave you my dear friend to la la land where you can reside with any other bigots who are immune to irony - one of the defining traits of bigotry in general, i would say, and one that you personify perfectly.. Hugs and kisses.

PS

Do you never, ever get the slightest frisson of doubt? .

author by barrypublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 21:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

i have no doubt about the nature of frazers parade and the neo nazis taking part in it . I have no doubt many people are angry about it and wish to protest about them marching through the capital and past the scene of their massacre.

And there is nothing ironic about your post , just the same useless nonsense ive heard since i was a child from respectable middle class types saying both sides are as bad as each other etc etc etc ad nauseum. ( although they managed to phrase it better than yourself most of the time)

Since then its been revealed the British state was behind much of the worst savagery that occured (and this will be highlighted , you can count on it ). You obviously have a problem with that , just like the people at garda hq who disappeared the files into that atrocity . But of course its better in your opinion to send people to an imaginary desert island rather than highlight such a disgraceful injustice , as well as highlighting who was behind it .

author by Barrypublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 21:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A few months after Mr Frazer and McConnells heroes in the Soth Armagh UDR and RUC massacred the Reavey and ODowd familys in their homes , British terror returned to that part of south armagh again .

As the surviving members of the Reavey family tended their loved ones graves they were threatened and abused by British paratroopers who taunted them about their families murder .

They then shot 11 year old Majella OHare dead in front of them in broad daylight with a heavy machine gun after cursing and abusing her and her schoolfriends . This atrocity occured only a few months after the Reavey massacre .

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/other/1976/murray76a.htm

Majella Ohare - murdered by British forces in south armagh
Majella Ohare - murdered by British forces in south armagh

author by whatabouterypublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 21:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

barry

agreed about her (majella) murder. now should i list the ones your glorious army perpetrated? now off to your island, where your inane noise won't disturb anyone.

author by Barrypublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 22:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Agreed what ?

Do you agree that mass murderers claiming to uphold law and order should be challenged ? That their murders should be pointed out as opposed to their victim status ? Do you agree that their murders have been given the veil of state protection ?

You have a major problem with this being highlighted thats for sure .

author by roosterpublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 22:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

come on Barry, how do you know that there will be a thousand of them, theres no way of knowing, and just because some people opposed a republican march in Scotland and they were neo-nazis how do you know that the marchers inb Dublin are going to be?

author by roosterpublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 22:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Barry are you really a republican?
if so, then you must consider the people living in the northern six counties as your fellow countrymen.

Would you really deny them the right to assemble in there own capital city?

author by whatabouterypublication date Sat Jan 28, 2006 00:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

barry asks:

'Do you agree that mass murderers claiming to uphold law and order should be challenged ? That their murders should be pointed out as opposed to their victim status ? Do you agree that their murders have been given the veil of state protection ?'

I agree with all of this. My only problem is that I also objecg to the equally numerous atoricities of Barry's frienhds in the IRA in what he deems to be their heroic phase. Thus, no:

'You have a major problem with this being highlighted thats for sure '

But I do have a major prpblem with Republicans like Barry raising the failijgs of the British, and ignoring their own. Words like bigotry, hypicrisy anjd oh yes idiocy spring to mind.

But I dont really mind. Barry keeps me in stitches more than Dave Alen ever did.... Keep it up Bazza- we need more comedians.

author by nuisance nedpublication date Sat Jan 28, 2006 04:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

we had 25 years of section 31 in Dublin and were kep0t in the dark about this national scandal , the biggest mass murder in our history. Thanks to a pro british and pro loyalist media in the south we never heard about majella ohare or the reaveys . we were encouraged to believe the provos bombed dublin monaghan

Our garda never even investigated it . Our government covered it up and still does . The branch harassed the victims families for christs sakes. And now when theres calls for an enquiry the files disappear in Dublin ?

Now the people who did it , and their relatives are coming to our city to claim victimhood , to say we persecuted THEM , insulting us with their foreign flags and nazi salutes ?

Theyll be opposed in a dignified manner . The ordinary people here in Dublin will remind them their bloody british massacre hasnt been forgotten . By the time frazer and his murdering udr buddies go home the country will think of him and Dublin monaghan in the one breath . his stunt will backfire badly , and theyll get publicity they werent banking on .

Dublin monaghan not forgotten , and neither are the people from fair and loveulster that did it

author by Barrypublication date Sat Jan 28, 2006 14:00author address author phone Report this post to the editors

UDA Brigadier Jackie McDonald who posed for the television cameras launching and distributing loveulsters newspaper is the overall commander of the UDA in south Belfast

He was in charge of the south Belfast area were over 30 chinese families were forced out of the area by UDA racist thugs in an orchestrated pogrom. Orchestrated by him as he was and is their leader in south Belfast .He will be attending the rally along with his racist thug friends .

http://www.socialistdemocracy.org/RecentArticles/RecentLoyalismAndBritishPolicy.html

author by Roosterpublication date Sat Jan 28, 2006 22:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"He was in charge of the south Belfast area were over 30 chinese families were forced out of the area by UDA racist thugs in an orchestrated pogrom."

Is he reall going to be there? How are you so sure? Jewish groups have objected several times over your use of the word "Pogrom" do a few families really qualify?

author by Barrypublication date Sun Jan 29, 2006 19:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

No jewish groups have ever abjected to my use of the word pogrom . Either provide a link or stop making things up . 30 chinese families being forced out of their homes and businesses in a small area by racist UDA thugs who distributed leaflets against them beforehand is certainly a planned pogrom

Less families and businesses were targetted in the anti jewish Limerick pogrom at the beginning of the 20th century

As a leading member of the UDA and Loveulster campaign Jackie McDonald and his people will certainly be there and have attended every other Loveulster event including its launch . Without their muscle Frazer wouldnt even attempt his Dublin parade . As he regularly plays golf with McAleeses husband the establishments favorite hood has been able to get Frazer the garauntees to his safety he required . Hence Loveulsters and FAIRs boasts about how assured they are the gardai will silence any protests

which suits the garda , not to have public references made to Dublin Monaghan or the files walking out of their headquarters .

author by roosterpublication date Sat Feb 04, 2006 19:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

orange order have no connection with UVF killers ?
by Barry Fri Feb 03, 2006 19:44
Au contraire

Yes Barry, I looked at your link, and see that it is just another one of your discredited republican sites, the perons in the picture wearing the sashes are there, as you well know, as individuals, not as members of a lodge.

Another OG for you Barry!

author by risiblepublication date Sat Feb 04, 2006 19:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So did their lodge expel them for wearing formal regalia at an event not sanctioned by th lodge? Because if they didn't then that's a tacit admission that they have no problem with the UVF.

author by Barrypublication date Sat Feb 04, 2006 23:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Belfast exposed is a highly respectable , non political , cross community photographic project with absolutely no connection to any group , republican or otherwise

heres its acknowledgement to the people whove funded its projects

http://www.belfastexposed.com/main/acknowledge.html

I would request rooster withdraw his insult against those people in that cross community project , one of the very few in the city in existence since the early 80s

author by roosterpublication date Sun Feb 05, 2006 00:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"No jewish groups have ever abjected to my use of the word pogrom"

yes they have many times, jewish groups complain every time Irish groups try to hijack the word pogrom or holocaust and why?
Because the Jewish groups are the ones that suffered these abuses over many years/centuries.

author by Barrypublication date Sun Feb 05, 2006 00:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

give me alink to where jewish groups have complained of my use at this term ?
as iasked you tod o . You say its many times , so please provide one ( and not one dated right after i asked you from a previously unheard jewish organisation in Dungannon !!!!)

Im beginning to think you just make stuff up off the top of your head . Like Belfast exposed being a discredited republican group .

Anti racist groups as well as representatives of the chinese community in Belfast have described the UDA instigated violent expulsion of dozens of chinese families from south Belfast and the violent attacks on their businesses as a pogrom

heres the dictionary definition of "pogrom"

"A pogrom (from Russian: "погром", meaning "wreaking of havoc"; in Russian "гром" means "thunder") is a massive violent attack on a particular group; ethnic, religious or other, with simultaneous destruction of their environment (homes, businesses, religious centers). The term has historically been used to denote massive acts of violence, either spontaneous or premeditated, against Jews, but has been applied to similar incidents against other, mostly minority, groups. "

author by wiggerspublication date Sun Feb 05, 2006 16:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Here's a link to the University of Tel Aviv's 2003 report on anti-semitism in Ireland. Overall, quite favourable, and absolutely no mention of the abuse of 'pogrom' by anyone or any group. It's a bit of an interesting article as it mentions hate groups based in Ireland such as 'Irish Hammerskins' and the wonderfully poetic 'Women for Aryan Unity' (both, it states, defunct.) Still, nothing better to cloud an issue than getting into a bargy over the semantics of anti-semitism.

Related Link: http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2003-4/ireland.htm
author by hist2publication date Sat Feb 11, 2006 21:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Posted this on another thread, but on reflection it's better here - a random selection of quotes from "FAIR"'s website.

http://www.victims.org.uk/main.html

We have been able to explain clearly how terrorist organisations such as the IRA operate, and the international contacts they have built up the maintain their crime machine, and to assist in the development of other groups such as FARC, ETA and the PLO. We believe the USA needs to awaken to the threat the IRA poses to America and the American way. While British troops fought alongside the US in Iraq, Irish republicans assisted the enemies of democracy by protesting against the US military's use of Shannon Airport. Irish republicans not only have maintained this protest at Shannon but as Marxists have continued to act against the interests of the US on whatever front possible. Despite this, the popular opinion in the US has always fallen in line with the Marxists on the issue of Northern Ireland.

View the UDR Song dedicated to the brave men who died in the cause of freedom to live without fear of sectarian criminal terrorists.

Find out more about:

The Nazi side of the Irish Republican movement

http://www.victims.org.uk/patfinucane.html
Pat Finucane - IRA Terrorist or Human Rights Lawyer? "Pat Finucane Helped Fund Terrorist Bombings... Did Pat Finucane or Rosemary Nelson ever campaign against the mutilation beatings, the knee-cappings or the exiling? Did they or the British state (even since the Belfast Agreement) ever call for an inquiry into the role of the present Northern Ireland Minister for Education in the IRA terrorist campaign?"

author by robbypublication date Sun Feb 12, 2006 01:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The Limerick Pogrom"

Having fled from persecution in Lithuania, a small number of Jewish tradespeople began arriving to Limerick in 1878. They initially formed an accepted part of the city's retail trade, centred on Collooney St. The community established a synagogue and a cemetery in the 1880s.

Easter Sunday of 1884 saw the first of what were to be a series of sporadic violent anti-Semitic attacks and protests. A Jewish woman was injured and her house damaged by an angry crowd.
In 1892 two families were beaten.

In 1904 a young Catholic priest delivered a fiery sermon castigating Jews as "international moneylenders" and demanding freedom for the Irish peasant. He urged Catholics "not to deal with the Jews".

The Limerick Pogrom was the economic boycott waged against the small Jewish community for over two years. Limerick's Protestant community, many of whom were also traders, supported the Jews throughout the pogrom, but ultimately Limerick's Jews fled the city.

author by Gay Georipublication date Sun Feb 12, 2006 05:02author email gaygeori at graffiti dot netauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Is covered by Wikipedia:

Limerick Victim of the Hol O'Caust?
Limerick Victim of the Hol O'Caust?

Related Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Limerick#.22The_Limerick_Pogrom.22
author by Barrypublication date Sun Feb 12, 2006 06:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

32CSM have decided NOT to hold an official counter protest !!

As the point behind the original plan was to publicise the links between FAIR and the Dublin Monaghan bombing and other killings we now understand that victims of McConnells RUC/UVF gang are actively considering doing the same . Therefore 32csm feel that our presence as a body would be counter productive to that very issue and allow the state to hinder and obscure the issues at hand . As theyve been treating the Dublin Monaghan and other relatives as subversive elements for years our presence on the day would allow them to continue to do that and simply misrepresent the genuine anger at those responsible marching at the scene of their handiwork . Instead of a physical protest we'll be highlighting and publicising the links between the parade and mass murder by other means and not allowing the state to use our presence to continue to cover that up .

While individual members will certainly be there as a body we will not be holding a counter protest . At the same time 32csm support the right of Irish citizens , particularly victims of those murdergangs who will be parading to highlight the injustice which continues to be committed through dignified protest.

An official statement will be issued in due course but you heard it here first .

author by Wiggerspublication date Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So, is this it? lyrics to a song and a 102 year old pogrom.

author by roosterpublication date Mon Feb 13, 2006 00:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

with the victims of IRA terrorism having counter-demos at the GPO when the republicans parade?

author by Sharon - Individualpublication date Mon Feb 13, 2006 01:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I have been at RSF-organised commemorations where protestors have stood , in front of the speakers lectern , holding up placards denouncing RSF .
On all such occasions , no harm came to them .
Will you put your money where your mouth is and come out on February 25th next with a placard either welcoming the loyalist marchers to Dublin or denouncing those of us that will be there objecting to their presence ?
I do not believe you have the bottle to do so .

Sharon.

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
author by roosterpublication date Mon Feb 13, 2006 02:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As for having the bottle,
1. unfortunately I'm kinda stuck in the middle of Iraq at the moment, until at least March so unfortunately I am not able to make it!
2. at these RSF commemorations when people demonstrated how many of them were Loyalist/protestant?

I have been at RSF-organised commemorations where protestors have stood , in front of the speakers lectern , holding up placards denouncing RSF .
On all such occasions , no harm came to them .
Will you put your money where your mouth is and come out on February 25th next with a placard either welcoming the loyalist marchers to Dublin or denouncing those of us that will be there objecting to their presence ?
I do not believe you have the bottle to do so .

Sharon.

author by hist2publication date Mon Feb 13, 2006 04:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'm afraid that's what's known as a straw man in place of an argument, robby. Most countries have instances of anti-semitism in their past, but only a few have a Nazi past.
Nice attempt to distract from the issue, which is that "FAIR" are not the peace-loving, non-political, loveable guys they claim to be.
They are propagandists, and the Trojan horse for the Orange Order and their terrorist (UDR, in case you missed that quotation from the site) bretheren to march through Dublin accompanied by paramilitary bands. They didn't manage it in 2000 because they were refused access to a church they had planned to attend as part of their march (they pretended they had to call it off due to intimidation).

author by Sharon - Individualpublication date Mon Feb 13, 2006 09:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi 'Rooster' !

"Theres nothing I'd love more Sharon
by rooster Mon Feb 13, 2006 01:24
As for having the bottle,
1. unfortunately I'm kinda stuck in the middle of Iraq at the moment, until at least March so unfortunately I am not able to make it!
2. at these RSF commemorations when people demonstrated how many of them were Loyalist/protestant? "

-1 . There will be other RSF-organised commemorations/marches etc : would you attend one of those as a protestor , with a placard , to show your opposition to RSF ?
-2. Those protestors were never 'pulled-in' by RSF stewards and asked that question : why should they be , 'Rooster' ? Their protest was orderly and they did not attempt to 'close down' the RSF event , so they were left alone to make their point . As they should be .

Sharon.

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
author by Barrypublication date Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I see from the latest video expose of British soldiers getting up to their usual dirty cowardly antics that things will be hotting up soon for the British invaders in Iraq . Ill not be surprised to hear Willie Frazer refer to dead crown forces over there as innocent victims of terrorism too . Certainly there will be lot more of them getting their just deserts in south Iraq for their behaviour just as they got it in south armagh too when they treated people in an equally brutal manner .

Best regards to any followers of Muqtada al sadr who may be reading this . May your aim be true , your mortars land on target and your roadside explosives detonate successfully and regularly.

Allahu akbar.

author by very amusingpublication date Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I always find it amusing that members of socialist party, SWP, anarchists and so on call us republicans morons and idiots even though most of us are are socialists too. In this case its because were willing to stand up against a sectarian bigoted march, all you's do is talk talk talk and have meetings about meetings basically dreamers who have very dood ideas of what soceity should be like but you's do absolutly nothing about it. republicans are the only grouping who actually did something in our history by taking up arms and taking part in a revolutionary struggle, yes only 26 counties were returned and that state is among the most capatilist and unbalanced between rich and poor in the world but its a start and we republicans initiated it and will carry on until we have the 32 county socialist republic proclaimed in 1916.

author by basra busterpublication date Mon Feb 13, 2006 15:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I hope in wishing the resistance forces well Barry isnt wishing any harm befalls poor old rooster . But as it seems rooster isnt content with British crown forces occupying Ireland ,but arab land as well , he seems intent on making enemies across the globe . Obviously he went to the Willie Frazer school of how to make friends and influence people .

As Mr Frazer seems intent on antagonising people in order to gain publicity perhaps he should organise his next Loveparade for the centre of Basra and stand up against the " terrorists " there

author by Barrypublication date Fri Feb 24, 2006 13:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just when you thought it couldnt get any more grotesque , bizarre etc Willie Frazer claims he " can,t guarantee" a placard bearing the image of the leader of the Dublin Monaghan bomb team , the mass murderer Robert McConnell wont be carried in his honour on the Dublin parade . He laso says he has no problem with it and admits its been carried in McConnells honour at other Loveulster events .

Robert McConnells well known loyalist nephew Brian McConnell is a co-organiser of the Dublin parade .

Heres an article on it by Ciaran Barnes

"" Organisers of a loyalist march through Dublin have said they cannot guarantee that images of a man accused of murdering 26 people in the city will not not be displayed during the demonstration.

Speaking to Daily Ireland yesterday, Love Ulster organiser Willie Frazer said: “I can’t give a guarantee a photograph of Robert McConnell will not be carried because I wouldn’t be against anyone carrying Robert’s photograph.”
Robert McConnell was a dual member of the Ulster Defence Regiment and Ulster Volunteer Force. He murdered scores of Catholics in the 1970s.
He played a part in the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings in which 33 people died. Twenty-six died in the Dublin attack.

Speaking in 1999, John Weir, a former member of the RUC with whom Robert McConnell went on murder missions, implicated him in a further eight killings.
The mass murderer was shot dead by the IRA in 1976. Images of him have been carried at previous rallies organised by Mr Frazer’s victims group Families Acting for Innocent Relatives.

Despite the weight of evidence linking McConnell to at least 41 sectarian murders, Mr Frazer defended the killer’s reputation.
“Anybody I know who knew Robert would say there is no way he was involved in anything. He was involved with the security forces and he helped the SAS and stuff like that but a lot of people would say that was just part of his job,” said Mr Frazer.

Relatives of those murdered in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings criticised Mr Frazer. Margaret Irwin of the Justice for the Forgotten group said his defence of McConnell was “very insensitive”.
She said: “We have very good information that McConnell was involved with the gang who we are convinced carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.
“We believe McConnell was involved in up to 55 murders. There can be no doubt he was heavily involved with loyalist paramilitaries.”
Up to 1,000 loyalists and six bands are expected to take part in Saturday’s Love Ulster parade along O’Connell Street. The march is to start at 12.30pm and is expected to last one hour.

Orange Order members will take part but will not wear sashes or collarettes.
Yesterday morning, Republican Sinn Féin held a press conference in Dublin at which the party unveiled plans to protest against the march. The Continuity IRA has also vowed to disrupt the parade.
Love Ulster held a victims rally in Belfast last October. The event was widely criticised because it failed to give any mention to those who had suffered at the hands of loyalists and the state.
Loyalists paramilitaries such as Ulster Defence Association leader Jackie McDonald helped launch the Love Ulster campaign last September. ""

Frazer reckons McConnells activities were " just part of his job" . Which is most likely true , hence the state cover up both sides of the border .

While this parade is a disgrace its nothing compared to the justice Minister and Garda authorities whove permitted it . They treated the families of those murdered as subversives for decades and never even investigated the biggest mass murder in the states history . Theyve turned a total blind eye even to the recent disappearance of every garda file into the atrocity for which McDowells head should roll . Its a resigning matter but nothing only a shrug of the shoulders .

And now the leader of the murder gang is set to be honoured on the main street of the capital city under full garda protection . More Garda man hours will be spent protecting those carrying Robert McConnells image in honour of him through OConnell street than investigating the Dublin Monaghan bombings .

Following the disappearance of the Garda files the solicitor for the families voiced the opinion that a state capable of treating its citizens in this manner for decades has its entire moral legitimacy called into question . Surely Irish citizens deserve far , far better than this from their Justice minister and Garda .

Im now firmly of the opinion peoples anger should be directed squarely at McDowell himself and his and other resignations demanded over these files disappearance . I hope this parade will be the final straw and this sickening insults spurs people into the correct action . Dont let that bastard McDowell continue to cover this national scandal up . Its gone too far .

author by RayMickeypublication date Mon Sep 13, 2010 02:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Barry what makes you such an expert on all this???? Ross Hearst was my grandfather somone thanks to all this shit I never met!!!!!!!! You say he took a bomb to Monaghan (something a highly doubt) but fail to mention that not only did they torture him and kill his daughter (my aunt) but tried to kill the rest of the family aswell including a little girl. Shits happened on both sides but its all completely pointless. Violence breeds violence. Does it really matter if Ireland is a whole??? At the end of the day its soooooo not worth it.. Like really it boils down to one diffrerence yous have the euro and we have the pound!!!!!!!!!!!! All these families have to cope with hurt and loss because of thick headed people like you!!!!!!

author by Redundant Republicanpublication date Fri Sep 17, 2010 23:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Secterian murders of Catholics. Bombings of border towns. Miami showband savagery. Dublin/ Monaghan destruction. ETC ETC ETC. The Brits controlled the loyalists secterian gangs, they supplied them with weapons and they assembled their bombs. All parts of the successful British war machine.

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