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Youth Defense prints 50,000 anti-gay leaflets

category dublin | rights, freedoms and repression | opinion/analysis author Monday January 31, 2005 18:22author by tobie* Report this post to the editors

After reading an article from the Sunday Business Post that youth defense printed 50,000 anti-gay leaflets I ventured over to youth defence office to see if I could get a copy.

The youth defense office using the name the Mother and Child campaign is contently located across the street from the Outhouse Community centre on Capel st. The walls of their building are covered in pictures from protests and images of fetus. The people working there were surprisingly young and trendy. There was a buzz about the place, four people bumping into each other in the office, a little girl running around and a guy carrying a vacuum up the stairs. They all seemed very happy to help me out and get me a copy of the leaflet. Although they were more interested in giving me a pro-life postcard. Suddenly one of them turned and said that he knew me from somewhere and wanted to know if I went to demos. With a knot in my stomach we figured out that it was the December 6th march in Shannon that we were both at.

Next to where I was standing was a pile of about 500 leaflets that have already been signed, which accounts for all that had been collected by the campaign but does not account for the ones that have been sent directly to The All-Party Oireachtas Committee. According to someone working in the youth defense office today was the last day for submissions, but they were looking for an extension.

Although the leaflet does not say who created them, the guy who handed me the leaflet said it was organised by The Mother and Child Campaign. It was filled with homophobic and sexist statements in order to 'protect' the family. The family needing to be protected is not a new concept for right wing groups. Abortion, same sex couples and women's lib is all the same issue; they all ruin the traditional family and therefore need to be stopped. This is clear when the leaflet claims that the recognition of same sex couples will some how weaken the "stability and security" of family based around a heterosexual married couple.

The submissions urged that the definition of the family not be extended to include same sex couples. It went further to say that same sex couples should never have the right to adopt children and that "Parents of Irish children would be horrified to think that their children could, in the event of their deaths, be adopted by homosexuals or lesbians". They go further and say that "Parents of Irish children would be horrified to think that their children could, in the event of their deaths, be adopted by homosexuals or lesbians."

Along with the homophobic statements the leaflet also calls that the reference to a women's life in the home in the constitution not to be changed, saying that the majority of Irish women want to stay home and rear their children.

Here is the article about the leaflets on Sunday Business Post, read it here http://url.ie/2h
Longer url: http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/wholestory.aspx-qqqt=ANY%20OTHER%20BUSINESS-qqqs=commentandanalysis-qqqsectionid=3-qqqc=5.7.0.0-qqqn=1-qqqx=1.asp

the most recent GCN has articles on same sex partnership and parenting. you can read them on http://www.gcn.ie

author by silas - "so we meet again"publication date Tue Feb 01, 2005 00:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Whereas it is common good catechism to observe Pauline thoughts on same sex union, these are concerns of the state and the institutions of government, it is impossible to determine the sexuality of parents by a hetrosexual act which resulted in a child, and the irish constitution and draft european constitution (which you oppose) enshrine the role of families as well as the tolerance of personal liberty and right in the development of the child to adult. And God cherishes all children equally regardless of the "nature" of their parents.

If your theology is based on Leviticus, then apply the whole text and _all_ the prohibitions not just those that suit (for whatever reasons) your selective prejudices.

It is sadly true, that your ideological approach (more suited to a Saducee than a true practicant or follower of the apostolic churches), promotes hatred of your brothers & sisters, and does little to assist the development of a society where all children are cherished by their grandparents and whole families with support of state institutions from Africa to Ireland.

You are truly as loathesome in your ignorance of the human condition as those who would condemn our global community to abortion, sterilisation and the eugenics of mortgage slaves, a globalisation of assisted fertility parents.

You really need to get out more, have a bit of a dance, and you'll see that there's a lovely girl out there with genes that suit yours, if you're hetrosexual she might just choose you and even if you're not she might choose you anyway, and if you respect her and her feminity and sexuality, your parents and hers might help you out with the proper institutional and economic support. Which for reasons of blinkered and fetished greed, hypocrisy and ignorance are not forthcoming at this present time.
But you may already be a bit old. Most of your global brothers and sisters have had their first children by now. And many of them have seen their first children die due to impovrishment, poor health care and poor sanitation. Economic situations compounded by unwarrented nationalisms and plain disregard in Europe and North America and the 1st world.
If you really are worried about "dirty things" then join a campaign for sanitation in the third world and give them the money you so blythly think to spend on taunting your fellow citizens in Ireland. There has been no evidence of a move in the Irish church of Rome to alter its position on this issue so your money really has been poorly spent.

Say Three Hail Marys.
& think about the rack.
Then wash the dishes for your mammy.
& say sorry to your neighbours.

oh yes its the rack = stay in the kitchen
oh yes its the rack = stay in the kitchen

author by PMpublication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 14:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You should not be giving free advertising to YD. They have their own channels of communication and are capable of promoting themselves without your assistance.
I wish people were better clued in, rather than making mistakes like this.

author by Paulpublication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 15:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Judging by how much Indymedia carries the free speech banner, why does this liberty not apply to Catholics?

Advertise abortion and not only do you allow for the random murder of children, but you institute state-sponsored persecution of Catholics and their beliefs. Not everyone wants to live in the permissive, super-liberal society that Indymedia wants, why won't you just deal with it?

author by Paulpublication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 15:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

To quote the bonehead: "You should not be giving free advertising to YD. They have their own channels of communication and are capable of promoting themselves without your assistance.
I wish people were better clued in, rather than making mistakes like this."

This is my point exactly. If you liberals are SO right about your view of society, then why won't you engage in debate? Are you afraid? Maybe so-called "right-wing indoctrination attempts" are the subtle hints of truth attempting to knock a vicious cabal of lies.

author by Paulpublication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 15:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Some of the anti-Catholic vitriol on this website is phenomenal... I don't know how you can constantly charge nationalists as "far-right bigots" when such profession of religious hatred goes untouched. When you little leftist goons grow up and become the bureaucrats who run society, what are Catholics to expect? The abolition of our religion? Sorry folks, it's not going to happen.

author by R. Isiblepublication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 15:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

One person commented about how indymedia.ie is providing unwitting publicity to YD. Then you've posted three comments complaining about how YD is not getting the benefit of "free speech". Apart from the obvious untruth of this, there's a fundamental misconception in your comments: indymedia is _not_ about "free speech" or "liberalism". It's about Open Publishing. We do _not_ allow the publication of racist, sexist or homophobic comments. Please see our Guidelines below for information on the topic before you make other incorrect assumptions about the site you are simultaneously using and vilifiying:

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63220
author by Paulpublication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 16:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Risible is right. So in other words, Indymedia is a one-sided site dedicated to a particular ideology or way of thinking? Then there's no point in me being here so. It's very easy for those on the Left to ostracise whom they see as undesirable, when much of what they profess is actually undesirable a significant number of people.

In other words, Indymedia's "open publishing" is yet another liberal weapon in the ongoing battle between left and right, right and wrong and, if you like, sanity and insanity.

If you check back through this page in particular, you will find that most posts are viciously anti-Catholic and offensive to those who hold religious convictions. Naturally Indymedia will march on anyone they see as racist, homophobic or sexist, but will they silence anyone who professes hatred of religion, especially Catholicism?

No.

That's where it becomes deliberate. If your "freedom for all" agenda was worth the paper it's printed on, then the posts insulting Catholicism which dominate this site would be deleted, or edited. They have not. Therefore, Indymedia is independent to everyone, except those who hold religious/traditional convictions. They are silenced, or ridiculed. Bravo folks, keep defending the free speech of the free world.

author by Peterpublication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 16:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Paul: quite obviously the reason there's so much anti-catholic prejudice on indymedia and in left/progressive/anarchist/whatever circles in ireland (and beyond) is because most of us have lived under the catholic system and been very seriously influenced by it at some stage in our lives.
However, as many people grew older and began to question their lives, themselves etc, they came to realise that catholocism (and organised religion in general) is not about love, peace, devine worship or faith. It is about control and fear. Face it, catholocism preaches hatred of homosexuals (the bible is littered with it) and the strong family structure they so often speak of is merely a front for maintaining patricarchal systems and keeping women enslaved.
So, we are against oppression, control, homophobia and sexism. We are against catholocism.

author by 23publication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 17:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

''Therefore, Indymedia is independent to everyone, except those who hold religious/traditional convictions. They are silenced, or ridiculed. Bravo folks, keep defending the free speech of the free world.''

are you saying that the Pit Stop Ploughshares/Dublin Catholic Worker have been prevented from posting onto Indymedia.ie?

if so, you haven't been to this site much, have you?

author by Gerry Apublication date Wed Feb 02, 2005 18:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

These Catholic fundamentalists support all of those things listed above - oppression, control, homophobia and sexism.
If the 'Youth Defense' crowd had their way Ireland would be dragged back to the kind of society that existed in the 40's and 50's - the era of "The Valley of the Squinting Windows", when the narrow minded bigots pryed into the private affairs of everyone and spread malicious rumour and gossip, generally based on hearsay, despite the injunction not to "bear false witness" against their neighbours.

author by Paulpublication date Thu Feb 03, 2005 17:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thanks for your lucid response, Peter, you make it very clear where you stand without mouthing off at me ;)

To be fair, however, if the rise of the Left signals a war on Catholicism (and if we disagree with homosexuality, we have the right to do so), then the result will be a backlash from those who still hold to their Catholic Faith and nationalist principles. If that's the way the Left are going to play ball then I envisage that we'll be looking at two Irish peace processes in years to come.

Such an attitude of religious persecution only confirms what the Bible said from day one, and what Catholics had said for years - one day the entire forces of State and mob opinion would be turned against them, and Catholics would be persecuted. It just bodes ill for the future.

author by Big Gay Sex Coppublication date Thu Feb 03, 2005 18:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As a regular reader of indymedia, while not completly adhering to all their views, I nonetheless feel that Catholicism is a degenarate, facist, loser philosophy that believes in nought but filth and lies. You are the sick ones, with your paedophilia and abuse of single mothers in the accurssed Magdalen launderies.


Gays generally kick ass. They pay taxes and whatever you think of their sexual proclivities, they nonetheless engage in such congress as mutual, consenting adults.

Meanwhile, your filth of an institution has a great number of sickos that have gotten a\way with rape and assault. Generally, Catholicism is indicative of the degenerate monothesism that is irrational in character. What needs to happen now is total annihilation of this unhealthy creed. You people are losers and your time is up. May the Hammer of Thor Smash up your Churches of filth, repression, lies, and general shitheadedness.

(Oh, and victory to the gays.)

I think people would generally rather live in the society envisioned by indymedia, ratther than put up with another 80 years of kiddie fiddling dictators from Rome. May it burn.

author by eeekkkk (an indymedian)publication date Thu Feb 03, 2005 18:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

editorial guidelines (type dalek into search engine of the site)

and

the need for a people powered media independent of government and big business which is i guess implicit in the voluntary labour of thousands which makes site what it is

we are not in the business of agreeing manifestos

author by Badmanpublication date Thu Feb 03, 2005 18:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"and if we disagree with homosexuality, we have the right to do so"

If you disagree with homosexuality, it's very easy to do so - just don't practice gay sex! Just like the way that I don't practice worshiping of the palestinian phantom-man-god.

The big difference between these bigots and their opponents is that absolutely nobody is proposing a ban on worshiping sky-pixies while the hypocritical hate-filled faithful would like to stop anybody from acting in a way that they disapprove of.

author by LOL fangpublication date Thu Feb 03, 2005 21:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

How do you know that gay couples practise the sin of sodomy if you don't bother talking to them, and how do you know hetrosexual couples don't?
And how do you feel about being Leviticus heads getting your water piped to your house assisted by modern day work forces many of whom are women who shock and horror menstruate regularly between puberty unto menopause.
Think about it.
Give Ratzinger a call why not.
And don't confuse modern and ancient catholic wisdom with your frankly very recent ultra-conservative heresy.
We aren't anti-catholic in indymedia, indymedia grew out of Seattle home to the Jesuit university and Chiapas home to the Zapatistas.
we're proper catholics.
and ye aren't.
+
here endeth the lesson pass the plate.

author by Paulpublication date Fri Feb 04, 2005 01:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

And what would you do with Catholicism if you were in a position of political influence?

author by Spinning Quicklypublication date Mon Feb 07, 2005 16:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Paul, I disagree that this site is anti-Catholic. Perhaps you've confused it with Ian Paisleys' site?

author by Big Gay Sex Coppublication date Tue Feb 08, 2005 14:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If I was in a position of political influence, I would concern myself with building roads, funding schools ( so they can learn shit like math and spelling) and equiping the police to deal with thugs and bigots. I would legalise weed. I would tax the Catholic church, cos it's loaded.


Now run away, before interpol catch up with you for being a nonce.

author by Barrypublication date Tue Feb 08, 2005 18:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If Youth Defence are opposed to homosexual acts, they should just not engage in them. Desist immediately and they ll be fine.

As a christian Im more concerned about the fate of the oppressed, people starving to death, being slaughtered by imperialists etc than being worried about what dodgy blokes get up to in the bushes. Especially as all too often one of them turns out to be a priest. Unfortunate but true.

Ths shameful history of the Catholic hiearchy in Ireland deserves to be exposed. Unfortunately those on the Catholic right have a cheek lecturing anyone on the issues of morality/sexuality given the carry on which went on for too long within the Church institutions, which without a doubt abused its power as well as so many of the unfortunate people within its power.

Perhaps an idea for youth defence would have been to take a strong stand against those in the hierarchy who covered up for the abusers. Maybe then people would see them as genuine concerned christians, instead of the right wing blue-shirt wannabees they really are.

My christian beliefs tell me our Lord Jesus Christ stood beside the oppressed in Palestine, Guatemala and the H-Blocks. When he looked at the right wing nutters that took his name in vain in this country Im sure he wept.

author by Adamskipublication date Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ok i'm gay(let me start of by setting that out).. i'm tired of religious, social, constitutional and all other types of argument about this topic.. I am an Irish Citizen and thus should be treated no differently than any other person under our constitution. And to the idiot above who said he 'doesn't want gays getting to many rights and they should stay in their own clubs and/or pubs', i have this to say.. I contribute, like any other working citizen, to the system and if that alone does not entitle me to the very same rights that heterosexual people take for granted, i don't know what does.. and for staying in my 'own bars and clubs', i'm too polite to say anything really nasty to you except that you should stay in that dark depressive hovel you call a brain, keep quiet unless you have something intelligent to say and do us all a favour!

Also the ultra-catholic rhetoric about this topic is not new nor heeded..

But how's this for a scenario..... All rights under the constitution in regards to heterosexual couples and their children be revoked so that no-one has a right to adopt or are not protected by the state. That way everyone is on an even keel and we wouldn't be having this argument!!!

All this talk about too many rights and stuff... do you actually know what rights we are seeking or what you are talking about for that matter!?!?

1.I want the right to adopt a child if that is my wish and bring him/her up in a loving and stable environment and ensure they get the best possible start in life.

2. I want the right to marry one whom i love and wish to spend the rest of my life with. I'm not asking for a priest to perform the ceremony nor the church to sanction it.

3. I want all forms of discrimination made illegal under our constitution, regardless off religious or social background/stance.

4. I want the automatic right to be able to give blood(as a donor) and suffer the same checks as every heterosexual donor.

I have more but those are just a few.. Finally hiding behind your religious ethos is shameful and simply ignorant! DISCRIMINATION IS DISCRIMATION NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU DRESS IT UP!!

author by Sodomitepublication date Mon Jun 30, 2008 14:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

By "us" I mean the female heterosexual sodomites. Should we be allowed to marry? Have babies? Adopt? Anything about that on the leaflet I wonder?

I don't know much about the blood donation thing as Ihave never given blood. Shame on me. But curiosity has strenghtened my resolve to do so - if only to find out if they ask about whether or not I take it... lets just euphamise and say "from behind".

Incidentlly I'm a teacher. perhaps I should be chased from the classrooms?

I respect anyones choice of religion. I respect anyone's choice to do whatever the hell they want in bed with andto another consenting adult.

Whay can't religions respect people for what they ARE - which is NOT a choice. Sexual orientation is not a choice. Producing and distributing hate filled leaflets IS. And it's a choice no decent society should respect or indeed tolerate.

The way I see it, spreading anti-gay leaflets by extreme religious groups is no different than spreading anti-black (or whatever) leaflets by extreme religious groups.

I don't see any GLBT groups spreading leaflets about the joys of sodomy.... although perhaps someone should ;-)

author by cropbeyepublication date Mon Jun 30, 2008 22:12author address Cork city (Northside)author phone Report this post to the editors



Isn't this hands accross the border great.

First Iris Robinson and now she has all these new allies

in the Youth Defense whom I believe are based in Dublin.

author by jiggermanpublication date Tue Jul 08, 2008 09:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Dear all.
I had always proposed a moderate liberal point of view regarding human behaviour. As a heteroseual i embraced the will of somebody to be homosexual, as a caucasian i defended the rights of those not of my colour. I do not agree with liberalised abortion as common practice but as i do not truly and could never comphrehend the nature and requiremnts of the action have always supported a broader more liberal view of the practice for those who choose it. So why when i have no difficulties with the legal or moral views of the minorities and do not seek to abuse their value systems or tar all with the one brush, must my faith (you guessed it catholicism) be consistently derided and ridiculed. Yes its church has been infested, yes it controlled and terrorised, it has been corrupted by men not of god. yet still i learned my morality there, i embrace my fellow man, yet you the minorities chewing the cud of bitterness will paint me as a member of youth defence, assume my faith is a right wing agenda. when were religion and nationalism the same thing for those of our generation. I find it strange that in our generation it cost me nothing to learn to accept others but by doing so i have lost my own acceptance from the branches in society that we reached out to defend.

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