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The Saker

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Indymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.

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Irish travellers and their association with Roma Gypsies

category national | public consultation / irish social forum | opinion/analysis author Monday December 27, 2004 17:43author by Cathal Campbell-Shawauthor email cathal_campbell_shaw at mail dot ie Report this post to the editors

A paper on the subject entitled “The origins of the Irish Travellers and the genetic structure of Ireland” concludes that “the Travellers are undoubtedly of Irish ancestry, due to their proximity to the centroid. Furthermore, the Travellers clustered with several heterogeneous counties in Ireland, including Wexford and Westmeath. Therefore, these data support that the origin of the Travellers was not a sudden event; rather a gradual formation of populations. Indeed, the Travellers probably originated with craftsmen and artisans forced to leave their monasteries (Crawford 1975). Later, their population grew as they were joined by various Irish groups that were forced to leave their homes because of various calamities and political upheavals (i.e. the potato famine and the repression of British occupation) (Crawford 1975). However, the timing of the Traveller origin is not certain and may have predated the historical period (e.g. Ni Shuinear 1996).”

Hi,

Irish Travellers are often referred to as Gypsies and I’m intrigued to why this is.

A friend of mine and I were talking to a Traveller recently, and during our exchange with him the traveller made racist comments about African refugees who are housed near his halting site. My friend scolded him for this and remarked to me that it was ironic that a traveller would make racist statements about others.

This is an example of how there is a perception in Ireland that Travellers are not racially Irish, and to be honest I see no evidence to support this.

A paper on the subject entitled “The origins of the Irish Travellers and the genetic structure of Ireland” [Ann Hum Biol 2000 Sep-Oct;27(5):453-65 ] concludes that “the Travellers are undoubtedly of Irish ancestry, due to their proximity to the centroid. Furthermore, the Travellers clustered with several heterogeneous counties in Ireland, including Wexford and Westmeath. Therefore, these data support that the origin of the Travellers was not a sudden event; rather a gradual formation of populations. Indeed, the Travellers probably originated with craftsmen and artisans forced to leave their monasteries (Crawford 1975). Later, their population grew as they were joined by various Irish groups that were forced to leave their homes because of various calamities and political upheavals (i.e. the potato famine and the repression of British occupation) (Crawford 1975). However, the timing of the Traveller origin is not certain and may have predated the historical period (e.g. Ni Shuinear 1996).”

The language Shelta is simply a cryptic form of Gaelic, with letters jumbled around so that Travellers could communicate privately among themselves. Cailín is Laicín in Shelta.

So why are the associated with Gypsies? Is it simple a case that their nomadic lifestyle is similar to that of the Roma, or are we too embarrassed to accept Travellers as our own?

Regards,

Cathal.

 #   Title   Author   Date 
   simple     Faolchu    Mon Dec 27, 2004 20:41 
   Confusion     Cathal Campbell-Shaw    Wed Mar 02, 2005 14:39 
   Ethnic     MG    Wed Mar 02, 2005 14:46 
   ethnicity     Cathal Campbell-Shaw    Wed Mar 02, 2005 17:15 
   Travellers language     Deirdre    Wed Sep 14, 2005 14:51 
   funding of mortgages...     suspicious    Thu Sep 15, 2005 01:22 
   looking in     edward connors    Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:09 
   thank you edward     Katharine    Sat Feb 17, 2007 09:55 
   forced on to the road     martin    Tue Sep 18, 2007 14:19 
 10   to martin and edward     ciara    Wed Sep 19, 2007 00:40 
 11   settled peoples views on travellers     sooblic    Fri Nov 16, 2007 23:59 
 12   Gypsies and Travellers     Sage & Thyme    Sat Nov 17, 2007 09:46 
 13   irish travellers debabe     martin lacey    Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:15 
 14   A short note to Sage and Thyme     Phyl.B    Mon Jan 14, 2008 15:37 
 15   CIRCUS FAMILY     Sage & Thyme    Mon Jan 14, 2008 19:00 
 16   Traveller lifestyle & language were practical adaptations     Pyre    Wed Aug 20, 2008 22:38 
 17   this weekend     tomeile    Thu Aug 21, 2008 15:21 
 18   TRAVELLERS SHOULD BE GIVEING THE SAME EQUALITY AS EVERYBODY     Bernard Kenna    Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:24 
 19   stop the hatred     pavee sooblic    Sat Jan 03, 2009 15:50 
 20   aparthied     henry cooper    Wed Jan 28, 2009 15:49 
 21   Reviewing the comments     O D B    Thu Jun 04, 2009 01:08 
 22   Pure Ethnic Irish.     Ethnic Human.    Thu Jun 04, 2009 07:57 
 23   Playing the Race card     Historyman    Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:25 
 24   estate clearances     rambler    Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:51 
 25   a book to read on the subject...     redjade    Fri Jun 05, 2009 13:20 
 26   Irish Travellers     Eleanor    Wed Nov 11, 2009 23:15 
 27   Working with the Travelling Community     Fred Johnston    Thu Nov 12, 2009 14:49 
 28   Judgement is an endless hunger     Barefoot Pavee    Wed Oct 13, 2010 23:42 
 29   good stuff     opus diablos    Thu Oct 14, 2010 13:56 
 30   re irish travellers origins     fiona    Thu Feb 24, 2011 01:50 
 31   makes sense, Fiona     opus diablos    Thu Feb 24, 2011 14:27 
 32   Locals.     Geneticist.    Thu Feb 24, 2011 15:52 
 33   ahem, geneticist...     opus diablos    Thu Feb 24, 2011 16:10 
 34   Science Tells.     Geneticist.    Thu Feb 24, 2011 16:24 
 35   Genetic damage     AC    Sat Feb 26, 2011 00:04 
 36   Irish Travellers     BoJangles    Mon May 23, 2011 12:40 
 37   @BJ     opus diablos    Mon May 23, 2011 14:13 
 38   To Opus Diablos - Very interesting     BoJangles    Mon May 23, 2011 16:40 
 39   Europe-Wide Phenomenon.     The Local Look.    Mon May 23, 2011 17:34 
 40   Travellers Ethnic origin     Tony    Fri Sep 16, 2011 13:29 
 41   not just the land reforms..     opus diablos    Fri Sep 16, 2011 13:57 
 42   Opus     Loki    Fri Sep 16, 2011 14:08 
 43   I'm aware of that Loki..     opus diablos    Fri Sep 16, 2011 14:48 
 44   Travellers     Loki    Fri Sep 16, 2011 18:51 
 45   Nomadism and health     opus diablos    Sat Sep 17, 2011 14:01 
 46   Opus     Loki    Sat Sep 17, 2011 20:06 
 47   I don't think..     opus diablos    Sun Sep 18, 2011 13:16 
 48   are these statements reasonable?     Serf    Sun Sep 18, 2011 15:13 
 49   Report     Loki    Sun Sep 18, 2011 19:01 
 50   bah! stupid study     Serf    Sun Sep 18, 2011 19:13 
 51   Serf     Loki    Sun Sep 18, 2011 19:25 
 52   I'm no expert..     opus diablos    Mon Sep 19, 2011 14:23 
 53   mr     dan b    Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:09 
 54   lets get the facts straight     rulya feen    Mon Jan 07, 2013 20:28 
 55   Swedish travellers,Horto Rommani are of romani origine.     Margareta Hellman    Thu Apr 16, 2015 15:24 
 56   Shelta is not Gaelic     RSaxon    Tue Mar 28, 2017 17:47 


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