Bleeding Education Dry

by Chris Bond - UCDSU Mon Dec 13, 2004 19:17

Excellent article James, very convincing arguments, well put together and executed.

by shoegirl Mon Dec 13, 2004 23:28

Some of the points made are very valid. However a worrying trend has developed over the last 15 years wherby the cost of 3rd level has escalated to an almost unsustainable point. At the same time, the main beneficaries of free fess have been those who can afford to pay. Those teaching in 3rd level can see this very clearly.

Now the issue I notice is not just the level of 3rd level fees but their extent. At the moment the so called "registration fee" has inflated itself to the point where it actually matches the fees charged 20 years ago for diploma and certificate courses. Considering also that the number of courses has massively increased exponentially, and that the number of students is likely to decline, this means that there is limited financial support for courses, especially less popular ones.

Now there is also a train of thought that 3rd level education is an investment in your future. For some students this is true, but a large minority fail to gain financially as a result of 3rd level education. Anybody not from a priveliged background who has done a non vocational course that they subsequently are unable to make use of in a career does not lose out in a free fees situation, but would end up doubly penalised in a high fee charging situation. Seeing as the fees for non eligible students is now in the 2.5k-5k range, this would be a heavy penalty for these students in particular if fees were reimposed. That doesn't even take into accound the high fee inflation that is likely to happen over the next few years if universities were left free to raise fees.

I think there is definitely a vested interest in the universities in re-imposing fees as it would again allow them to increase fees to meet their needs. However this could be at the expense of many students. On the other hand, this begs the question why the government has continued to commit to 3rd level free fee schemes without properly funding the colleges. This doesn't even take into account why maintenance grants have fallen in real terms, thus causing more hardship for students most in need.

I have mixed feelings about the reintroduction of fees. On one hand, there is a sizable group of students from wealthy backgrounds who are well able to afford fees and do not need the subsidies given. On the other hand, there is an equally large number of students who would suffer if fees were reintroduced. I would also issue anybody who strongly believes in fees to look at what has happened in the UK, where the introduction of student loans has more or less accompanied a massive lending boom leading to a life of chronic debt for many people, many of them now numbed to the impact of debt by the fact that they started off with substantial student debts. This is a real danger in a loan scheme. And the main beneficiary are the financial services organisations who back the government schemes.

I think colleges themselves need to review the value of their courses. I spent 6 years in TCD myself, and feel now that many university and college courses serve those who work at the colleges more than those who take the courses. This "value for money" issue needs to be addressed from the governments perspective.

by Chris Bond - UCD students union Tue Dec 14, 2004 20:40

I think that the best way for the rich to pay for 3rd level education is to introduce more tax bands to get more revenue from the super rich. The problem with introducing fees based on parents income is that, it doesn`t take into account the students independence of his/her parents nor does it take into account the parents willingness to pay these fees. A system of Universal free 3rd level education funded by the exchequer to a more progressive system of taxation is best way to go about it.