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Justin Barrett gets a hand from UCD's L&H to organise

category dublin | rights, freedoms and repression | news report author Tuesday October 12, 2004 17:00author by Joe Report this post to the editors

Far right nut case Justin Barrett is to speak in UCD tomorrow night as a guest of the L&H debating society. Yet even the Sunday Times describes " his intellectual influences as ... thinkers whose economic corporatism and racial separation concepts are central to the ideology of the International Third Position fascist network" [Sunday Times - 18th May 2003]

Barrett is even too much for anti-migrant nut Aine Ni Chonaill (also speaking) who on hearing of his plan to set up his own party said "Barrett was associated with the Catholic right and clearly had a wider agenda than just immigration." According to the Irish Times (17th May 2002) that wider agenda includes the deportation of Irish protestants as the "only solution" for northern Ireland, otherwise predicting that "Ireland may well lament in blood". He also "claimed that parliamentary government was "foreign" to Irish people and unsuited to their needs"

His book also reveals the traditional far right hatred of the left when he claims ""The refugee advocates are, almost to a man and woman, the abortion advocates, the contraception advocates, the Europhiles, the anti-Catholic bigots. In other words the whole rotten cabal of the left." [Irish News - 20th May 2003] This is partly a reference to the time of the X-Case when anti-choice bigots attacked pro-choice demonstrations with hurleys. A "Irish Sunday Mirror investigation found that links between Barrett's Youth Defence group and the European far right have existed for years" [Sunday Mirror (Irish Edition)- 29th September 2002]

The same article reveals that "One of Youth Defence's founders shared a flat with the lead singer of the Nazi rock band Celtic Dawn in the early 1990s. During this period, members of Youth Defence also contributed articles to the National Front/International Third Position magazine Candour. " And that "Youth Defence's relationship with the European extreme right has also been cemented by the visit of a group of Forza Nuova students, to Ireland last year to 'study' with Youth Defence."

According to the Sunday mirror "The Forza Nuova party has a membership which like to wear fascist uniforms and give Nazi-style salutes. The shadowy multi-millionaire former terrorist Roberto Fiore leads it. Fiore only returned to Italy in 1997, having fled to London in 1980 after the Bologna railway station bombing which claimed the lives of 85 people. He ran the Armed Revolutionary Nuclei organisation, two of whose members were found guilty of the bombing.

"Barrett shared a platform with Fiore at a rally of flag-waving Italian fascists at the Hotel Miramar on July 21st 2001 in the Italian city of Civitanova. At the rally, Barrett and Mario Di Giovanni, Youth Defence's representative in Italy, and their fascist colleagues voiced their support for Catholic fundamentalist revolution ...Two of the group's members were found guilty of bombing a left-wing paper in 2001"

Barretts links with the European far right were first (rather cynically) brought to light during the second Nice referendum. Back then he pretended to be unaware that the meetings he had attended were neo-Nazi ones. But the Irish Times got hold of the video of the Passau rally at which "40 people were arrested due to violent activity and the meeting was in a hall built by the Nazis for SS rallies. Also present at the event were representatives of the Spanish fascists, Forza Nuova and Irish-based Derek Holland, leader of the English Third Position. "

The Irish Times report (11th October 2002) describes how "The conference opens with a fanfare as a group of brown-shirted men walk through the hall bearing the red, white and black NPD party flag" and how "Anti-semitic speeches are peppered with quotes from Adolf Hitler. There are claims that "Germany was the biggest victim of the second World War". Hundreds of skinheads give standing ovations to elderly Nazis."

One of the youth organisers of the NPD (which the German authorities say has "Nazi characteristics") rather dimmly spoke to the Irish Times enabling them to reveal that Barrett "has a long-standing relationship with the party's youth organisation, the Young National Democrats (JN), a recruiting ground for the NPD. Mr Sascha Rossmüller, leader of JN, said he had been in contact with Mr Barrett "for several years". Youth Defence "shares many important interests" with the JN and is "an important part of our international network", said Mr Rossmüller.

"Other organisations in the network include the National Front in Britain and Italy's extremist group, Forza Nuova" "According to its own documents, the [JN] group models itself "singularly and solely on the Wehrmacht and the soldiers of the Waffen-SS"."

Obviously the students of the L&H decided it was a great prank to give Barrett a platform to organise from. This despite the fact that Ireland is seeing a wave of physical attacks on migrants and that racist pranks in UCD student papers have been followed by racist attacks there.

Barrett has openly admitted to the Irish News he wants to build to set up a ""national opposition group" against immigration" [20th May 2003]. The policies he has sketched out in ‘The National Way Forward’ are the same as those of fascist groups elsewhere and it shown above he "has a long-standing relationship" with at least some of those groups. And on fascist web sites like Stormfront his UCD engagement has already generated excited discussion amongst self declared Barrett fans.

I understand that UCD students and workers are discussing what to do tomorrow in opposition to Barrett. They would surely welcome solidarity from anyone outside the campus. So if you reckon giving Barrett a platform to organise from is mistake why not join them tomorrow night. The No 10 bus runs from the North Circular through the City Centre to UCD It's terminus is about 5 minutes walk from where this meeting is to take place. The meeting is due to start at 7pm Weds 13 Oct, be sure to arrive a good bit earlier so you can make your voice heard.

---
The media reports referenced in this article are archived on the Irish Anti Fascist Action web site to be found at http://www.geocities.com/irishafa/

author by sardonicuspublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 17:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So your solution to an alleged supporter of extreme right wing totalitarianism being allowed to speak is to encourage supporters of left wing totalitarianism to turn up and prevent him?

Do Barrett or his supporters attempt to prevent left wing meetings or speakers?

In fact, do you advocate that a Marxist - tainted as much or as little by the crimes of that ideology as Barrett is by fascism - be alos prevneted exercising their right to free speech?

author by Don't stop the speakerpublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 18:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

'I disagree fundamentally with everything he has to say, but I'll fight to the death for his right to say it.'

Any protests should be aimed, not at stopping him from speaking, but from making people realise he's not worth listening to.

author by Badmanpublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 18:32author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If you think that he is using this meeting to recruit people to far-right groups who will take part in violent attacks against immigrants or whoever, then you simply shouldn't let him hold the meeting. From the evidence of Joe's article above and the reaction to this meeting on fascist internet sites, I think that there is every justificiation for preventing this meeting and hindering the far-right's ability to organise attacks.

Some people aren't interested in ideas. Arguing against a racist lynch mob isn't going to get you too far. Force is the only language that they understand. If this meeting is indeed aimed at organising such people, then it should be smashed.

author by sardonicuspublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 18:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

There is no evidence that Barrett is involved in or is advocating violence against anyone. If he was, then fair enough. I don't agree with his views but he does represent a view point that is entitled to be heard. Similarly I do not agree with people who supprt Marxism but there is no way that I would support anyone attempting to prevent a meeting of any Marxist group taking place.

If people are engaged in racist attacks then they should be confronted if need be physically. However, there is a dangerous line between that and attacking people who are advocating differenet albeit abhorrent views.

For example I recall an AFA activist boasting about preventing some anti-immigrant candidate canvassing in Dublin. Persumably there was a physical element in that. Now I don't beleive that is acceptable.

author by Noelpublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 18:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

No free speech for Fascists!

Have these witless clowns no sense of irony?

author by Badmanpublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 19:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"There is no evidence that Barrett is involved in or is advocating violence against anyone."

Well, his stated desire to set up a new anti-immigration group with nearly identical politics to the other European fascist groups is more than "no evidence". Of course, none of these groups ever openly admit to organising violence against anybody, but we all know that they are involved in it. So far racist violence in Ireland has been casual and random, but nevertheless serious. If we had a fascist group to organise it systematically, it would be many times worse. The evidence from the rest of Europe is clear on this score. When the BNP/FN/whoever manage to organise in an area, racist violence goes way up.

So why wait until they are organised enough to do real damage here?

I do realise that this is not a cut and dried case, that there is a measure of speculation involved in it, but given Barrett's proven links with fascist groups and his stated desire to set up something similar here, I think that the balance of evidence would justify physically stopping him organising such a group here.

author by Romeopublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 19:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Yea I agree with - Don't stop the speaker

Stopping people talking is not the way to go. If there are people interested in his message then they can be recuited whether this meeting goes ahead or not. But this meeting also gives a chance to people to rebutt what he says.

We on the left, alway give out about what we feel is censorship and the bias of the media. It's a bit hypocritical if we're also stopping people talking.

So I'd like to see people go, argue against his points and believe they can convince the people there that his hate-talk doesn't benefit anyone.

Arguments like "Force is the only language that they understand", well that's just more hate-talk ,isn't it.

author by Tonypublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 19:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

QUOTE "Of course, none of these groups ever openly admit to organising violence against anybody, but we all know that they are involved in it."

How convenient Paul. Of course, if "we all know" these things, then why don't we follow through and act on them (Oh legally I meant) or d'ya think Barrett has some cloak of invincibility?

QUOTE " I think that the balance of evidence would justify physically stopping him organising such a group here"

Oooh nice. Now that you have gravely "weighed" the "evidence", heard all sides (except Justins and BY GOD that wont happen) and justified physical violence, how far do you go? firebomb his home? attack his children?, "take out" his mother?

Pray tell.

Incitement to hate and violence is illegal Paul n'est pas?

author by Badmanpublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 19:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just more hate talk? A willingness to confront racist violence is now hate talk? This is just liberal hand-washing namby-pamby crap.

The day and hour that I see you out on the streets in working class areas talking down a racist gang that is attacking immigrants, I'll listen to you. Because, from here it just sounds like another case of 'I'm alright jack'. You are presumably never going to be the victim of a racist gang, so you can preach from the comfort of your fine liberal principles while other people get the shit kicked out of them. You brave soldier you.

author by stand of armspublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 20:10author email johnlennon at hushmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Such fucking liberal stances as "free speech for facists " fucking sicken me ... Do you not realise these people are promoting hatred of innocent peope? And given a platform they have the oppurtunity to brainwash others and deeper root themselves in.These scum have to be stopped at all costs ...

the only good fascist is a fuckin dead facist.grow up//cop on.

author by Paulpublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 20:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Meet at 12 on the 13th of October oppossite theatre L in the Arts block to plan our opposition!

author by Tonypublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 21:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Quote The day and hour that I see you out on the streets in working class areas talking down a racist gang that is attacking immigrants, I'll listen to you. Because, from here it just sounds like another case of 'I'm alright jack'. You are presumably never going to be the victim of a racist gang, so you can preach from the comfort of your fine liberal principles while other people get the shit kicked out of them. You brave soldier you. Unquote!!

A first for Indymedia Ireland, congratulations, the birth of the unofficial Justin Barrett vigilante hate gang (of one). Hate the haters said Mr. George Orwell. What a clever chap he was.

Am I relieved, yet again, that Paul is a "anti racist". For if he was a "racist", he would no doubt be out attacking those very immigrants - with all of his deep rooted, and explosive rage - that he is now planning to defend (whether they damn well like it or not), with almost insane zeal.

Diversity is wonderful n'est pas?

author by Tonypublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 21:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Any of you paid up zealots ever stop to consider that there are bodies on the streets of countries all over the world, because people were not allowed speak?

Sorry you don't live there or something?

author by hs - sppublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 23:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

had some experiences with FN in sicily, they are completely neo nazi. they wear in public (on the streets) black shirts, yes thats black shirts and are very violent. There positions are completely neo nazi, so much so italians differenciate between them and ordinary fascists. They have alot of money too. In there rallies they have nazi red flags with celtic crosses where the swatzica used to be. No one but no one would have any doubht of their politics. Incidently they idolise ireland in a sort of celtic twilighty way, they had an "irish" pub in my city and they idolise collins and sands (who of course aren't to blame). There solution to the irish national question is openly driving the prods into the sea, anyone with any connection to these should be watched very closely. They make mussolini look soft.

author by Barra O Griobhthapublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 23:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Justin Barrett and Aine Ni Chonaill are simply dismissed as nuts above. The fact is Justin Barrett and Aine Ni Chonaill are Irish people who grew up among us. They are products of our society. If they have grievances then there is some logical reason for those grievances - just as there are logical reasons behind the actions of Palestinian terrorists. Everything can be explained by logic, and personally I don't think you can blame the metal health of the aforementioned people for their opinions. Wouldn't it be more constructive to try and establish why people in our country arrive at these far right opinions? There are many teenagers in Ireland with racist motivations. To dismiss these kids as evil or under the spell of Justin Barrett is wrong in my belief.

Here's one reason why I think many people in Ireland might have a problem with immigration -

I think being Irish is similar to being part of an extended family. When I was young, I learned to sympathize with the woes of Ireland's past. I learned that it was good to buy Irish. I learned to be proud of those who fought for our independence. I learned how to jump up and down when Ireland scored a goal. I learned how to pool my money with other Irish people's in order to build and create things that would benefit Irish society. We were raised as Irish people, and we were raised in the belief that like within our family that we should look out for one another - we should pay taxes in order to help other Irish people worse off that us. So, imagine how confused you'd be if you arrived home from college one evening to find that a complete stranger had moved into your room and your parents no longer wanted to have anything to do with you. This is how many of our population now feel - with 21% of us now living below the poverty line during a period of unprecedented economic success. And this sense betrayal and confusion is only compounded when they see how successful many of our immigrants are - even after only a few years here. We give immigrants the opportunity of a better life in Ireland (for our economic gain of course), while we fail to live up to our obligations regarding the poor in Ireland.

Being tolerant is about being understanding and compassionate to all.

author by toneorepublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 23:11author email toneore at eircom dot netauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Let him speak so that others who don't agree with him, can answer him. People should be allowed hear him at first hand and not relayed thru the internet with all its biases and slants.

It's a massive piece of arrogance to say that he shouldn't be allowed speak in case someone else basically "falls under his spell" and turns into one of his kind. We're not stupid.

This no free speech for fascists stuff is bollox. Even the American Civil Liberties Union sued to let Nazis and KKK speak -http://archive.aclu.org/library/pbp10.html.

Remember, the best way sell CDs is to stick a Parental Advisory Sticker on it.

author by Tonypublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 23:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Interesting post.

One German I spoke to told me that one of the reasons why Germans like Irish culture (music etc) was because of the virtual banishment of their own traditions, as "nationalist" "racist" etc - no matter how benign.

When you dis-enfranchise people from their culture, well, all sorts of people get upset and some, and I must stress this, some, take it to the extreme.

This in no way excuses the zealots of either stripe. It is just a small illustration of how the medicine of stripping people of their humanity -and making all manner of wild assumptions, even for the best of reasons) can help manufacture an equal and opposite reaction that is as malignant as the diesese.

author by hs - sppublication date Tue Oct 12, 2004 23:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

there irish thing does make sense really, we are white, catholic very fashionable in italy (at the moment) and are underdogs (were).
The problem for the fascist revolutionary groups is historically they have always been the oppressers and with the rich so to appeal to people they have to invent some other form of ideology. This is where bobby sands comes in, a fascist che guevara so to speak. (no offence to bobby sands or any republicans), every year on his anniversary catania (the city i lived in) is covered in literally thousands of bobby sands posters by the neo nazis. And it allows them to be anti prodestant not because they are bigots but because they are "anti impearialist",
They take the same form with israel and palestine. Also fascists love mediveval mystisism, blood and honour, knights of the round table or any of that nonsense. The old fascist party used to even run hobit camping weekends!! For them ireland is racially pure.
Which is ridiculas coming from sicialians as they're a mix of pretty much everything.

For italian nationalism they have no problem with it at all, a good percentage of them are skinheads with skinhead uniforms.
Why they exist there is many reasons, one being a very strong fascist tradition in Catania, there is a festa di tricolore, every year and the ex fascist National Alliance are one of the bigger parties, as well as one or two others.
The left being very much in retreat over the last few years, and of course the usual economic conditions, problems with immigration and plain old hatred,
FN themselves pulled 3,000 votes in the last local elections. They have the same sort of visibility and influence as the swp in dublin.

author by sardonicuspublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Where does all this confrontation of racists take place? Or is this just more macho posturing? I happen to live in an area that has witnessed racist attacks - by the same sort of scum who would otherwise attack anyone else who stood out - and I have never ever heard of anyone defending the victims. In fact the only people who have ever stood up to these scum have been the Provos but unfortunately they don't appear to do that kind of thing any more.

I notice too that Badman totally ignored my reference to an AFA "confrontation" with some sad bastard who stood in the local elections. What brave chaps they are.

author by righteous pragmatistpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Justin Barret is a looney tune.
The guy with the squeaky voice and Mickey Mouse ears makes me laugh when ever i see him on the television or hear him on the radio. I can remember last year Vincent Browne simply let the guy rant uninterrupted and politely listened. Barret given enough rope hangs himself everytime.
We are not going to have a fascist Catholic Ireland any time soon. Don't worry.

Richard Boyd Barret (Justin's dark evil twin?) rants on and on about every other left wing cause - what he really wants is to be a independent TD someday and hopefully set up a Communist republic when he builds the country into revolutionary frenzy. It won't happen anytime soon. Don't worry.

author by Michael Henniganpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Barrett got 10,997 votes - 2.4% of first preferences in the East constituency in last June's European elections. He would dearly love to be viewed as an individual of consequence - which he clearly isn't. So let him speak rather than give him the opportunity to show American anti-abortion groups and others that he has a cause worth funding.

In times of change, there are always types like Barrett ready to exploit the fears of those who pine for mythical images of a past like De Valera's 'coleens dancing on the village green.' However, let's keep things in perspective.

Barra O Griobhtha's stark contrast between the Ireland of the past and a present where 'many of our population now feel' a 'sense of betrayal and confusion' seems a bit overdone.

As to the line: 'We were raised as Irish people, and we were raised in the belief that like within our family that we should look out for one another - we should pay taxes in order to help other Irish people worse off that us.'

Let's face it, that Ireland of community was well dead even before the Celtic Tiger. The simple fact is that the bulk of Irish private wealth has the taint of tax fraud.

author by iosafpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

& if he once crosses the line of legality -
Do him.

HS has offered you a little picture of the FN in Italy, they are real. Yesterday a veteran of the 15,000+ strong Blue division was invited to walk giving official recognition of the role fascist falangists played in Spain. http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=66999&type=otherpress
Last month far right deputies were elected in German regional assemblies, this year far right counsellors have been elected in the UK, there are very active far right groups in Russia. And in France Le Pen has not gone away.

So don't dismiss him. He is a representative of the European Far Right is he not? If he is what he claims to be, then "test him". If he is what he claims, he will cross the line and commit a criminal offence by inciting hatred, and you will have the evidence to prosecute him. If he is not what he claims to be, then that ought be the last we ever hear of him.

author by ... - ..publication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 14:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

why should we rely on the state to sort this out for us iosaf? wait till he commits a criminal offence and then prosecute him?
sure why don't we just tell the guards about all these corrupt politicians while we're at it, or maybe try and get them onto the whole police brutality thing, reckon they'll go for that?

author by Freddypublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 14:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well I doubt if the Gardai will try to arrest their own "Heavy Gang", and it would probably take an enormous amount of pressure before any politicians would be prosecuted, but Barrett should be fair game if the Guards are spoon-fed the evidence. I'm sure they would not go out of their way to get any evidence themselves unless the person being prosecuted was a leftie or republican.

author by FFpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 14:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

“This is how many of our population now feel - with 21% of us now living below the poverty line during a period of unprecedented economic success. And this sense betrayal and confusion is only compounded when they see how successful many of our immigrants are - even after only a few years here”

I agree with poverty and sense of betrayal but If you mean ‘successful’ as in ‘given every privilege possible’ at the expense of the native people .
If every Irish welfare recipient and pensioner was given the amount of ‘special needs grant’ that the ’asylum seekers’ have been given there would be a lot less anger.

author by Dan - UCDSUpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 15:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Anti-racists will be meeting at 6.15pm before the debate to decide what form of protest we should stage - opposite Theatre L in the Arts block

author by An Púcapublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 15:19author email flannbui at yahoo dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

I rember being a first year when Áine Ní Catháin spoke at a L&H anti immigration debate and I spoke against her. Her arguments made little sense, were longwinded and she was ridiculed and seen for what she was by the audience.
The crowd of ógra Fianna Fáilers and self absorbed rich kids that run the L.&H. are entitle to invite whoever they want to speak. I dont however agree with them vetting the audience as happened during the fees protests when bertie came to speak in 2003. Barrets political ideals are based on romantic notians of race,nationalism and Roman Catholicism which can easily be shattered by a good speaker who has done some research. Ridicule him, show up the hypocrasy and inconsistency in his arguments and Barrett will do the rest for you by showing his Facist nature. I dont think Barret is about to spiring up a little facist group in U.C.D. Even the pro life groups there were virtually non existant when I attended. Concentratr on the more credible of your enemies F.F and pro Bush fanatics like Richard Wanghorne.

author by Oisínpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 15:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I wouldn't worry about too much of the right turning up. They'll all be at the Ireland soccer match wearing celtic jerseys and shouting racist abuse at the Faroe Island players.

author by righteous pragmatistpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 15:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Do you see how they have a massive whale slughtering orgy every year?
Hundreds of whale carcasses and the blood and bowels fill the entire bay! They stink!
Nuke the Faroes RIGHT NOW!
NUKE THEM!
NUKE THEM!
AGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH!

author by Michael Henniganpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 16:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I guess that the reference to 'sucessful immigrants' is a post code classification - excluding bank honchos from the IFSC; well-paid foreign techies in Microsoft, IBM etc.

It would also be reasonable to assume that most of those 'successful' immigrants towards the bottom of the economic pyramid are here legitimately.

author by FFpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 18:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It seems that what many of the ’asylum seekers’ are really successful at is hoodwinking the likes of you. Fortunately this not true in the working class communities where the truth is much more obvious- in spite of all the social engineering and political correctness (more accurately or lies, deception and unfair advantage).

author by Michael Henniganpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 18:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Re: 'hoodwinking the likes of you' - this is rich from an individual who presumably does not know me or my background. I need no lessons on working class communities.

So the 'successful immigrants' have all now become ’asylum seekers’ ! Point is, who distinguishes the individuals on work permits from the others?

FF- don't bother anwering as you may well confuse yourself with the facts.

author by :-) walking the thin line between right and wrong.publication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 19:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

the other option (lynching him yourselves) isn't on, in our new post-FBI climate. You can post a picture of him tomorrow on all the lamposts of Eire with the caption "Gardaí do this man please" and everything will be ok, but you go putting his photo up with "let's do him" and someone in J Edgar Hoover central will say - "man they're back at it. Send the irish server to techie guantánamo".

author by FFpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 19:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

" I need no lessons on working class communities."


Might be a matter of opinion!


Your previous post was deliberately designed IMO to confuse the various distinctions between, say, asylum abusers (many of whom unfortunately may qualify for permits thru next –of –kin rules), and E.U Nationals and other legit immigrants/migrants.

It’s not the first time I’ve come across this amongst the pro-multi-cult brigade. It does a great disservice to those who enter here legitimately and honestly and muddies the waters for proper debate, which in the long run is more likely to fuel indiscriminate xenophobia.

‘who distinguishes the individuals on work permits from the others?’

It’s not even just an issue of whose got a permit or not (yet another red herring) but more a case of how fairly they’ve acquired it.

author by this is not on.publication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 19:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

see- that's an example of inciting readers to violence and "is not on".
you have to put the Gardaí bit in -
"Gardaí throw rotten fruit at this man".
now it's legal.
Likewise, you have to rethink linking to sites like "killbush" in future we'll have to put little disclaimers like -
this is a link to the popular site of the same graffiti called "kill Bush" in a clever tongue in cheek reference to the movie "Kill Bill". But is not meant to incite any harm to any member of the Bush family living or dead. In addition please note that no Bills were harmed during the making of the movie.

Related Link: http://www.killbush.net
author by AFA Worshiperpublication date Wed Oct 13, 2004 22:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

By all accounts his contribution was short.....very short

Related Link: http://www.afa.ie
author by Acidpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 00:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

He didnt get to speak. Job well done.

author by Scáth Sheamispublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 00:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Congratulations to AFA on another job well done.

author by Someone who was therepublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 01:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You guys got to make your case at the start. You motion to not let him speak was put to a vote in the debate, and defeated. I think that it shows what contempt you guys have for democracy that you ignored the majority of people who were there, and proceeded with your pig-headed bullying tactics.

author by correct AFA website url - AFA friendpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 02:11author address http://www.geocities.com/irishafa/author phone Report this post to the editors

http://www.geocities.com/irishafa/

author by che guypublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 03:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Some have said that the only way to stop those who express 'facist' views real or imagined is to
"smash" them through physical attacks.

Which side was using physical violence here?
Which side is the only one to ever use violence to peaceful demonstrations in freedom of speech?

Answer = AFA , socialists , marxists , troskeyites and the rest of indeymedias regulars.They only understand one way of expressing a political viewpoint = violence.

The likes of Barret understand what a peaceful speech is, his so called opposition do NOT.

Lets face it , if the AFA had any reasonable facts to argue with they wouldn't be beating up pacifists who express a difference of opinion!

This folks is intolerance to freedom of speech and exempilifies the very hypocrisy of anti-Barret attackers.

author by freelancerpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 05:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

hi, at one point in the early 90s I was involved in a debate about abortion with members of youth defense in trinity - they threatened to break my legs. Shortly afterwards they - assisted by thugs drinking in the pub below - attacked a picket of their headquearters on Thomas St. with snooker cues, batons and if i recall correctly also a bible, which gave somebody a bloody nose. The incident received a lot of attention because they also hit a photographer from the Mirro with a snooker cue, but his assistant sanpped a photo as it happened and the photo was published on several occasions.

During that period they attempted to intimidate several people - following people in vans and very direct threats were the order of the day. During that period they had two specific hook-ups with dodgy characters.One was the a quy who fancied himself as a hard man and had been kicked out of Tallaght by republicans for his involvement with drug dealing. Another was a former member of an irrelevant republican splinter group who was subsequently owner of a bar in the south inner city which was a well known hangout for anti-social criminals. They had their offices upstairs. He died some years agoI believe.

Their connections with Forza Nuova have been mentioned above. It is believed that they also received printing equipment from the Fiore gang in London. Fiore runs a multi-million euro businness called easy london which offers housing and job placement services for young Italians wanting to gon to the UK to work. There he employs gangs of polish skinheads as enforcers and rent-collectors, intimidating young people who are housed in shitty conditions. The profits from the business are used to set up offices for FN all over Italy, which they are doing at an alarming rate.

In Rome, Lucca, Bari and elsewhere the FN have been attacking/knifing people (11/12 of them are currently under investigation in Bari). These are Barrett's friends, and I can only assume that he would like his political formation to be able to act in a comparable way. Draw your own conclusions.

Enjoy the debate about freedom of speech etc, but remember that some of us have an experience which has taught that when you meet them it's not a matter of reasoned argument. I prefer to see this dilemma dealt with in another way. Red Action, who were one of the most historically effective forces in anti-fascist action in britain, long enforced a very clear policy of no platform fo fascists on the street, but if you go to their website you will see that they frequently debate with members of the NF/BNP, do not kick them off their boards or censor them politically, precisely so as to meet and beat their arguments. I believe that this is the right approach.

author by ...publication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

if you go to stormfront (and i won't post the link here because it breaks the editorial guidelines) you can see the fascists and racists fuming over what happened. By the way the guy who got a punched at the ack of the hall is a 'friend of a friend' of someone who posts on stormfront quite a lot.

maybe he wasn't just an innocent bystander eh?

author by jimmypublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

yeah, supposodly that guy who got a punch thrown at him and his mate are both in a band called 'Keltzer' which plays an "Unholy blend of National Socialist Heathen Black Metal".
They had a website a while ago but lots of people posted gay porn to it and they shut down.

now the loons on stormfront are talking about going to see Justin Barrett speak tonight in Galway. Pretty unsavourary company he keeps these days...

author by Joepublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The two boneheads types daft enough to turn up does confirm what those who opposed giving Barrett a platform were saying before hand - that the danger was not what he might say but that the L&H were providing an organising space for these types. You'd wonder if in Germany in the 1920's you had university 'debating' societies doing the same thing with topics like 'The Jewish Question'? "Oh I don't agree with anything Mr Hitler has to say but blah blah blah'

Probably worth pointing out that everyone actually sat quietly through around 6 VERY stupid students speakers and 9 minutes of Aine Ni Conall before doing the stage invasion when Barrett was asked up. Aine was mad, she started off trying to sound moderate but lost the plot and went on a racist rant about Nigerians. But people sitting through her offensive shit demonstrates that its not racist ideas they are afraid of but the threat of any fascists getting organised around Justin and his ilk.

author by Tonypublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Whyt don't you guys join stormfront?

Fight the battles over there by all means but stop cowering over here like neutered petrified morons.

stormfront is probably getting more hits from here than any white supremist site with the amount of publicity it is given. Even, with the ridiculous line of - "I wont post the link"

How the f**k did you guys ever find it.

retch.

author by No free speech for fascistspublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It is a thundering disgrace that Barrett was invited to speak in the first place anybody who thinks he has a right to speak should turn up to a meeting made up of ethnic minorities and explain there position they'll receive an education A white middle class audience is not whom Barrett is discriminating against how dare any middle class white student feel it is okay to allow a blatant fascist and rascist spew his vile ideologydiscriminating against minorities. If these same students were studying in England and went to a debate where an English rascist spewed racist vile against Irish people they would be up in arms. I am a graduate from UCD and i am embarrassed that he was invited out. Shame on the L+H, shame on you white middle class arseholes who think he has a right to speak, why don't you go and ask an individual from an ethnic minority what they think. Chinedu (editor of Metro) who spoke agreed that Barrett should never have been invited. Well done AFA, and thank you.

author by La truthpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 14:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"And", you are so full of crap I don't know where to begin with ye.None of your above synopsis is true.
It would have to be a red to believe every rumor , lie and bullshit fantasy told to them by loosed based sources.

Ketzer ( the correct spelling you fool), are still alive and going strong.Their website has NEVER being closed , and still remains open for business.

author by FFpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 14:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

“shame on you white middle class arseholes who think he has a right to speak, why don't you go and ask an individual from an ethnic minority what they think.”

Why don’t you go ask a member of an Irish working class community and find out what THEY think!
You’ll find it’s a lot more similar to that of J. Barrett than what the average UCD graduate would say. But then ‘that’s because they’ve been manipulated by "reactionary forces" in the political class’ – you’re patronising in the extreme and anti-democratic in spirit, ideology and practice.
How dare any know-it-all- know-nothing try to dictate to the rest of society!

No only are you wrong- you’re dangerously wrong !

author by UCD Headpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 14:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The only people that shouldn't turn up to UCD anymore are those animals who beat UCD students for standing around and trying to speak.Justin Barrett got away light.Some UCD students didn't.

author by Michael Henniganpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 14:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

re: 'How dare any know-it-all- know-nothing try to dictate to the rest of society! No only are you wrong- you’re dangerously wrong ! '

This is surely a case of the kettle calling the pot black arse!

FF appears to have a special insight into 'the Irish working class community.'

As to being 'dangerously wrong,' this is the same individual who began posting yesterday, bracketing all categories of immigrants together; later backtracked and referred to people being hoodwinked by ’asylum seekers.’

- fodder surely for losers on society's fringe who blame their problems on immigrants.

author by peterpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 14:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The main reason as far as I can see to prevent free speech is in the case of incitements to violence. Those opposing Barrett with violence have really let themselves down in this respect.

author by Well Donepublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 14:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

WEll done lads, Justin Barrett is now on Joe Duffy RTE being seen as some sort of moderate, never mind no platform now you've given him a national platform.
Might is right???

author by Jonahpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 14:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Switch on RTE 1
Justin Barrett is on the Joe Duffy show at the minute accusing Residents Against Racism (An organisation Duffy claims to have never heards of) of physically assaulting him in UCD last night.

He goes on to accuse Indymedia of being a forum for organising this kind of activity, claims that the SWP are on Indymedia who use it to arrange such activities. He also suggests that third level institutions should, or do, monitor Indymedia to identify 'troublemakers'.

Good to see that when Fascists speak in UCD, other Fascists will assault them.

author by pcpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 14:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

just like dana

author by AFA - Anti-Fascist Actionpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 15:10author email afa at ireland dot comauthor address C/o PO Box 3355, Dublin 7author phone Report this post to the editors

The following statement was sent to the Joe Duffy show outlining the reason for the action. The JD show replied to say 'they do not read out statements'. It is Joe Duffy's fault that Barrett was headline news on his show, not AFA's.

+++++++++++++

Statement regarding Justin Barrett debate at UCD on 13th October 2004

Anti Fascist Action (AFA) wishes to state that we are the organisation which prevented the fascist Justin Barrett from speaking at an 'Immigration Debate' in University College Dublin last night. A number of other people attending the event also joined us in preventing a platform being granted to Barrett.

AFA has a policy of 'No Platform' for fascists, which means that anyone attempting to organise fascist or racist political groups will not be permitted to do so. We believe in political and ideological opposition to the far right, and have been active in Ireland for the past 12 years.

The 'No Platform' policy relates to ANYWHERE fascists may attempt to organise or spread their repugnant views. It is quite humourous to hear spokespeople for debating societies attempting to claim UCD as an ideological asylum where the likes of Justin Barrett can claim sanctuary. This is not the case.

We would also like to clarify regarding a young male member of the audience who spoke at the end and claimed he was an innocent student who had been assaulted. As a result of AFA monitoring and information received over several years we know for a fact that this bonehead is a member of a 'National Socialist Black Metal' band calling itself 'Ketzer'. He is a frequent contributor to the openly Nazi 'Stormfront' website.

[ENDS]

AFA Website:
http://www.geocities.com/irishafa/news

More information from: afa@ireland.com

author by fingallianpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 16:42author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Barrett is not a fascist. A right wing Catholic loon perhaps but not a fascist. If he was a fascist would he not have had his heavies with him? After all is that not one of the distinguishing features of the "fash" as their mirror images on the extreme left call them?
Indeed if the brave AFA are so anxious to confront those responsible for racist violence why don't they come out to Finglas and take on the anti-social gangs that are anow attacking non-nationals as well as anyone else who takes their fancy? Or would that be too much like endangering the vanguard of the revolution?

author by AFA fanpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 17:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why isn't your beloved Dessie doing it.
Ah, the hardship of going sticky, eh?

author by fingallianpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 18:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

My beloved Dessie? What are you talking about ? If you are referring to Dessie Ellis, I can only assume that this is because your pseudo gang is currently directed at the so-called dissident republicans just as you once hung around the edges of the provos - without ever risking a hair on your head naturally!! I can tell you btw that Ellis has stood up to more scum - racist and otherwise in Finglas than would comprise a life time of wet dreams by you wankers.

AFA are only a bunch of posers whose idea of taking on the "fash" is for 10 of them to gang up on some little oul fella delivering election material.

author by FFpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 18:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

“re: 'How dare any know-it-all- know-nothing try to dictate to the rest of society! No only are you wrong- you’re dangerously wrong ! “

“This is surely a case of the kettle calling the pot black arse!”

By expressing what I’m thinking is not in itself impinging on anyone else’s rights-unlike the AFA do and intend to continue to do so. (If you wish to be abusive make it please clear by using the proper punctuation).

“FF appears to have a special insight into 'the Irish working class community.”

I wouldn’t class it’ special’ just obvious to anyone who lives on planet earth without their head shoved up their own….jumper.

“As to being 'dangerously wrong,' this is the same individual who began posting yesterday, bracketing all categories of immigrants together; later backtracked and referred to people being hoodwinked by ’asylum seekers.’”

No I believe it was YOU tried to blur the distinction between those who are here honestly and those who ‘are pulling a fast one’ to come in and stay.

But maybe it is a misunderstanding and we were talking in cross purposes. As a matter of fact my initial comment was response to another poster and is to be judged in that context. - I never backtracked- It was you who rather rashly jumped in and all drew your own erroneous conclusion – I’d even be prepared to admit that maybe it was poorly communication on my behalf- now isn’t that big of me!

As for you being hoodwinked well considering their failure rate runs at 90% anyone who thinks that most are for real is being’ hoodwinked’ – it’s a fair comment.


“Fodder surely for losers on society's fringe who blame their problems on immigrants”

So compassionate towards your own underclass then- sounds like its straight from the Adam Smith Institute- why not order them to ‘get on their bike’ while your at it, oh “son of Tebbit”.

No more for it's boring for all! (me particulary)

author by southsiderpublication date Thu Oct 14, 2004 23:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"just as you once hung around the edges of the provos - without ever risking a hair on your head naturally!!"

And, pray tell, what did you do during the war? Fuck all, like most of the newbe SF, Still, there could be a full time position if you hang in there!. At least Dessie played his part when times were hard. Bitter wanker.

author by critically tight assedpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 14:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Oh! so he's got a cult's blessing.
what is the difference between a "really right wing catholic" and a "fascist"?
It might just be the difference between a nazi and a fascist might it not?
Barret attended a neonazi rally in Germany as a really right wing catholic fascist just like
Mussolini who pacted with the pope, and Franco who received holy communion every day of his dictatorship.

He's guilty. no argument. no defence.

author by ??publication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 14:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just bring loads of gas fired football hooters and make it impossible for him to speak that way?

I also think it is odd that members of AFA will not appear on the Joe Duffy Programme and put forward their argument forcefully where others can hear it - thus leaving JB to cry on Joe's Shoulder largely unchallenged. Why this approach?

author by Gearailt MacSteafoinpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 14:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Really tight-assed, I take it your knowledge of Italian fascism is so superfical that you believe there is a corealtion between it and Catholicism,

Mussolini, like most Italian politicians in the late 19th and early 20th century was very hostile to the Catholic CHurch, and the eventual concord between Church and State, was neither to Mussolini's or the Catholic CHurhc's liking.

To parrallel Mussolini and Barrett is the sign of an idiot with no knowledge of Italy's or Fascism's history

author by much less tight assed nowpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 15:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I just was going through a "really offended reader session" as other contributord had left a series of jokes and comments on the newswire which included trivialisation of rape and (inadvertently) a link to an American supremacist organisation. These have now been edited.
And i got upset and mistakenly made the Barret & Musolini paralel. Which perhaps is a sign of an old leftie being careless with the terminology and historical fact.
Of course the parallel yet different developments of Italian Fascism or Spanish Fascism and the Vatican from 1928 to 1978 (at least) does strike the historian, as "different ways of achieving the same aims".
A member of Opus Dei will always feel more comfortable in the company of a Fascist of most European types (where anti-catholicism is not a core belief) than in the company of an American Supremacist. What is unusual about Barret is his attendance of the German neonazi event. This marks him out as anomolous, no matter his personal eccentricities (overt devotion) or stature (short) or accent (squeeky).

Not enough critical attention is being given to this anomaly, and rather too much is being paid to the posturing of the "anti-fascist" tendancy and grouping. Which in many societies all too often boils down to supporting one bunch of teenagers over another for the very real reasons of knowing which side's grandparents suffered the more.

author by historianpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If you read a few books you wouldn't have to ask such a stupid fucking question. Fascist leaders in Europe - with the exception of the Francoists who had significant differences with the Italian and German varieities - were almost invariably athiests like their counterparts on the totalitarian left. Fascisim tolerates no other sources of power no more than does Marxist socialism.

author by Barra Ó Gríobhthapublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

>>if you go to stormfront (and i won't post the link here because it breaks the editorial guidelines) you can see the fascists and racists fuming over what happened. By the way the guy who got a punched at the ack of the hall is a 'friend of a friend' of someone who posts on stormfront quite a lot.

>>now the loons on stormfront

This kind of attitude sickens me. Your simply taking pleasure from other people's anger. You are turning fellow human beings into villains, so you can play good guys vs. bad guys. You are no better than Bush and his war on terror.

You can't defeat anger with anger. Look at Palestine. Dialogue is the answer.

author by fingallianpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I was an active Volunteer. Convicted and imprisoned too so any state agents who are bored enough to be reading Indymedia will not be learning anything knew. We were always told to have nothing to do with Dublin AFA/Red Action as they were regarded with suspicion. A suspicion that has been confirmed as far as I can see by the subsequent activities of certain individuals. Unlike it has to be said the genuine AFA in Britian some of whose members did indeed play an active part in the war.

The RA That's the IRA of course not the Dublin section of F Department) fought real fascists - you know UVF and the like? Not old men delivering election leaflets.

author by Barrypublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

fingallian I think your letting your personal/organisational dislike of AFA blind you as to the nature of Barretts politics. The guy has moved on in recent years and while he might deny it on Joe Duffy the evidence is clear enough from what he writes and who he hangs out with. HS has posted quite a lot of info on the Italian crowd he hangs out with on these threads and they manage a convincing job of being catholic and fascist at the same time. There are a number of wide divisions in European fascism and they stand on the other side of one of them from the likes of the NF/BNP whom people here tend to be more familar with. This does not make them any less fascist.

author by AFA Memberpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

You are showing yourself up as totaly out of touch. AFA has always ben a single issue campaign, seperate from Red Action or anyother group.

Presently AFA has republicans in its ranks. Just as it has Anarchists, Leninists, Community Activists and Independents.

author by Barra Ó Gríobhthapublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As a member of AFA, do you condemn the violence perpetrated against Barrett and others?

Personally, I think a lot of harm was done by the actions of some people on Wednesday night. The alternative was to let the man talk, and contradict him in a civilized manner - how hard is that? Instead, stormfront posters are talking of war. Many of the posters on the latter forum are in their teens - and this will act as a recruitment drive for some of them regarding the politics of Barrett.

author by AFA Memberpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 16:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Of course I dont condemn the "violence". Baret is a disgusting litle nazi.

author by Red Star Expresspublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 17:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

They look like a poor imitation of AFA Britain - but about 10 years behind them in terms of strategy and tactics - who had great success against a very real and numerically strong fascist movement in Britain from the late 1980's to the mid-1990's.

With the abandonment of street activity by the majority of right-wing British fascists - apart from the state-friendly NF - AFA were faced with a dilemma: do they continue to hunt down and physically confront individual fascists who had obviously lost the appetite for street confrontations; or should AFA reorientate its activists towards political work that might have a better chance of stopping the rise of the BNP in working class communities?

With no obvious or credible opposition on the streets it was clear to AFA in Britain that the fight against fascism must now take an ideological route.

This is the reason for the wind-down of AFA in Britain and the establishment by former AFA activists of the Independent Working Class Association (IWCA) .

More information about the tactics and strategy of anti-fascism in Britain can be found at www.redaction.org

Info on the Independent Working Class Association can be found at www.iwca.info

Related Link: http://www.iwca.info/
author by Oisínpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 17:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Debate that is going on right now on this thread on the whole issue of right/left facism, racism etc. is what could have happened the other night. This anti-democratic group the AFA which have appeared mad sure that nothing constructive came out the debate. They fail at every turn to actually pin down what it is to be Facist. They probably rely on someone else to tell them someone is a facist because when the find out there not going to give a suspected facist a chance to speak.
The links that Barret has are very worrying but to liken him to some of the monsters of the past is idiotic. Facism is different in every circumstance it's manifetation varies on the culture it appears from.
So if you do want to stop facism you are better of looking at the issues not the people.
The issue the other night was immigration/racism was it not ? Yet what could have been a usefull dicussion on racism and the nature of racism was destroyed by some idiots on some self anointed quest to rid the world of choice(yes facism can be a choice). Yet again the topic of Racism has been swept under the carpet by the left. They seem afraid to deal with the issue as does Ireland in general. The right has let us know in a very public way there opinion and proposed solution to racism and immigration. AFA etc. it's time to respond and this time not with violence but answers.

author by Eric Blairpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 17:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This is what someone who was there thought of it.

"I think there’s a VERY important point being missed here. As one of the few person’s of colour actually at the debate (at least until I walked out in protest), I was shocked and disgusted by the role that L&H have played in all of this. I believe that this society never intended to hold a ‘rational’ debate on the issue of immigration control in the first place, and here’s why… what sort of a debating society introduces a debate on this sensitive issue with so called ‘comedic relief’ at the expense of the Chinese and Nigerian communities in Ireland? And what’s really sad is that most of the people in the hall, members of the society included, were not even cognizant to the fact that the derogatory ‘comedic’ spiel WAS RACIST. They seemed to be quite entertained by it all. This is the nature of racism in Ireland and indeed in UCD. I chose to walk out when a member of L&H, a person who last year thought it hilarious to include in the campus paper a voxpox feature asking students which ethnic minority they found most offensive, began arguing against immigration control!

I’ve been led to seriously question L&H’s motivations in holding this debate. And in this context, the society’s decision to invite a known fascist needs to be examined. I do not believe freedom of speech overrides concerns of incitement to hate. Two skinheads were present in the hall. I cannot understate the significance of their presence for a person of colour. As a student, I have never felt more threatened in the university environment. Inviting Justin Barrett to speak put in very real danger the students of this college. Is it surprising perhaps that a virtually entirely ‘white’ student society thought the safety of students of colour on this campus expendable? L&H had a clear option of conducting a much needed debate on immigration control without compromising the safety of UCD students. That it chose not to exercise this choice reflects quite frankly poorly on the society. The society needs to be held accountable."

author by AFA Memberpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 17:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Your rant is totally irelevant. Just as your juvenile attack on George Harisson was. Rightwingers (you have made your hatred of the left clear in the past) like you are not going to influence AFA.

author by DApublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 17:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Off you go back to fiddling with cameras and taking down vehicle numbers, theres a good lad.

author by Barra Ó Gríobhthapublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 18:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

>> Of course I dont condemn the "violence". Baret is a disgusting litle nazi.

Sorry to break it to you "AFA Member" but your a fascist. Any one who uses or supports the use of force to install their political ideology on a society, without that societies consent, is a fascist. It is the job of the Gardai to physically enforce the will of the people, not you. If the Gardai are not doing their job right, then it is up to the government, who we democratically elect, to deal with the problem. If the government are not doing their job right, in your opinion, then you have the democratic right to seek a mandate for replacing them.

Resorting to the animal instinct of attacking those who threaten you is not constructive in the long run with respect to societies problems. Can you think of any terrorist organisation which has been defeated by the use of force, 'cos I can't? That doesn't mean you can't defeat terrorism. Also, people talk about how racists are filled with hate for certain others. Well, again it sounds like there were a few hate filled people at the L&H debate, happy enough to kick the crap into fellow human beings. If a brother or sister of yours was racists, would you kick the crap into them also, or would you deal with it in a more intelligent manner?

author by Barra Ó Gríobhthapublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 18:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

>>Two skinheads were present in the hall. I cannot understate the significance of their presence for a person of colour. As a student, I have never felt more threatened in the university environment.

Any constructive debate on immigration will require the presence of skinheads. Otherwise it would be like having a peace process in Ireland without Gerry Adams and David Irvine. The fact is that if anyone of us were born in the shoes of those skinheads, we'd be racists also. Unless you believe in free will, good and evil, heaven and hell, and that entire lark. I personally believe were just machines - Garbage in Garbage out.

What kind of format would you suggest for an immigration debate? Videolink? As a coloured person you wish to be fully included in Irish society. I think its rather rich of you to presume this right for yourself, while excluding others based on their ignorance.

author by St Canicepublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 18:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Could Fingallian outline what SF have done in Finglas to counteract racism? At a meeting organised by Residents Against Racism it was claimed that neither SF nor labour had distributed any anti-referendum leaflets in Finglas. After the recent attack which led to the expulsion of a black family from an estate in Finglas South I read Dessie Ellis's statement condemning it in the local paper but I have'nt heard any other action by SF to counteract this act of racism.

Fingallian has a habit of engaging in bitter and contemptous attacks on anyone he sees as an opponent of SF, so for the record I voted for Dessie Ellis though Im not a big fan of the current direction of SF . I respect someone who did time for a cause they believed in (both Dessie and Fingallian) but it does not mean you are superior to everyone who disagrees with you.

author by AFA Memberpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 20:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"They look like a poor imitation of AFA Britain - but about 10 years behind them in terms of strategy and tactics

AFA Ireland isn't an imitation of anyone. If bitterness didn't blind you to the history of AFA in Ireland you would see that the vast majority of our work is done in our communities and very rarely do we get the chance to actually physically confront these wankers. The hard work was done in the early 80's on this score. The situation was never the same in Ireland as it was in britain. All this stuff is available on the AFA website but then that would spoil a good rant for you wouldn't it?

author by Southsiderpublication date Fri Oct 15, 2004 20:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"I was an active Volunteer. Convicted and imprisoned"
What a hero! Does your hate for the left come from the fact that you were actually a member of one of the more pro loyalist far left groupings while the real war was being fought? Did you join SF during the great influx of lefties during the 80's? Have you managed to get that full time job yet? Roll on coalition with FF!

TAL.

author by Real Republicanpublication date Sat Oct 16, 2004 14:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If you were in prison Fingallian the only thing you learned was arse licking (of the metaphoric kind, of course) because all you ever do is parrot the latest Provo party line. I can't wait to see how you justify coalition with Fianna Fail when the day comes.

"Take that flag down from the mast......"

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