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White Nationalist Party

category antrim | miscellaneous | press release author Monday April 12, 2004 22:23author by R Craig - Fascists Out! Campaignauthor email fascistsout at hotmail dot com Report this post to the editors

WNP/Combat 18 fascists driven out of Portrush

WNP/Combat 18 fascists driven out of Portrush
Call for venues to refuse "Blood & Honour" concert

Members of a recently set up Fascists Out! Campaign prevented fascists from the White Nationalist Party/Combat 18 from distributing leaflets in Portrush on Saturday. (3 April). The anti-fascists confronted the four fascists in a car park near the Dunluce Centre and insisted that they hand over their material. After a brief confrontation the fascists ran off in different directions.

Captured Flag
Captured Flag

Leaflets and other fascist material including a WNP flag were seized. This material – see photograph – from the WNP and Combat 18, with swastikas prominent, shows the real nature of these groups.
Yesterday a misleading report appeared in the Sunday Life which claimed that the Portrush action was carried out by the Socialist Party. The Fascists Out! Campaign is, in fact a broad based campaign made up of a number of groups and activists in the North Antrim area. It was formed last month at a meeting in Ballymena organised by people in North Antrim who have been concerned by the efforts of the fascist WNP to organise in the area. None of the individuals or organisations involved were approached by or spoke to the Sunday Life.
It’s purpose is to expose the real nature of the WNP. The fact that most of the material seized in Portrush was openly fascist with swastikas prominently displayed should be noted by people throughout North Antrim.
A spokesperson for the Fascists Out! Campaign commented.
"For some time we have been monitoring the activities of the White Nazi Party in the Coleraine, Ballymoney, Bushmills and Ballymena areas. These people are spreading racist filth and encouraging the cowardly attacks, including the petrol bomb attacks, against members of minority communities.
"Hitler scapegoated the Jews and these modern Hitlerites are trying to scapegoat racial minorities. Like Hitler they stand for a "pure aryan race".
"The problems of low pay, cuts in services, lack of jobs especially for young people, lack of affordable housing etc. are not caused by immigrants. They are caused by the current economic system that puts profit before need, and by government policies that are dictated by the interests of big business.
"The ideas of the White Nationalist Party/Combat 18 are straight out of Mien Kampf. Their aim is to take away democratic rights including the right to vote and the right to belong to trade unions. The White Nationalist Party programme states: "We believe that democracy is a fraud and a sham. We wish to establish a new type of State based on leadership, authority and discipline."
"People in North Antrim and across Northern Ireland respect democratic rights and will oppose any group whose aim is to take away these rights and establish a Hitlerite dictatorship.
"We do not want fascists organising here. We have enough problems in Northern Ireland with the sectarian conflict without having fascists stirring up more trouble.
"We are organising against them because we know it is dangerous to be complacent in face of the threat of fascism. The lesson of the rise of Hitler is that the German fascists should have been taken on when they were small. The White Nationalist Party/Combat 18 have no support. This is the time to defeat them so that we make sure they never get any bigger.
No "Blood & Honour" concert here!!!
"These thugs have announced that they intend to bring a fascist "Blood & Honour" band over from England to play in the North Antrim area. This concert should not go ahead. The Fascist Out Campaign are asking every venue in the area to refuse to let fascists use their facilities. Make sure every door in the area is closed to these Hitlerites."
Contact us at: fascistsout@hotmail.com
Attached & below – photos of fascist material seized in Portrush & a posting from the WNP website – see Guest book – responding to what happened in Portrush.
ghost
From: ulster
Sent: 21:19 GMT on 3 April
four members of ulster w.n.p were attacked in portrush today by a group of up to forty reds whilst leafletting,a bag containing leaflets and posters was stolen by force. my question is where the fuck were all you armchair ulster nationalists who spend all their time posting about how great it is to be in ulster on this guest book and yet leave all the ground work to real actavists it's about time you lightieght fuckers got out from behind your p.c and did something to help.well done to the coleraine and bushmills members who were there today.as ian stuart said even if we stand alone we must never hide.
(This posting can be found on the WNP UK website, under "guestbook")

Nazi on the run
Nazi on the run

Nazi rubbish
Nazi rubbish

author by jimboxpublication date Mon Apr 12, 2004 23:21Report this post to the editors

"People in North Antrim and across Northern Ireland respect democratic rights"
...which is why they vote for parties dedicated, in on form or another, to removing these rights from whoever's annoying them this week. ;)

Seriously though, well done to all involved.

author by shoktroopsformcdowellreferendumpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 00:45Report this post to the editors

.

author by Acidpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:14Report this post to the editors

Well done to all involved. Keep it up!

author by Homerpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 14:32Report this post to the editors

I'm no fan of these right-wing bullies. Any philosophy which is in terms racist and discriminatory is illogical, despicable and an affront to the work of generations of people who have.given their blood, sweat and tears to giving us what freedoms we enjoy today.

However, I don't see why a self-appointed, "ideology-police", should go out and physically threaten people who want to practise their freedom of expression. If we allow this, what's next? Will they go out and threaten Fianna Fail supporters or say, somebody campaigning to have a commemorative plaque for Ireland's Great War dead? Who deicdes who gets to air their views and who has to keep their mouth shut?

Do these anti-fascists fail to see the irony of their actions. They are WORSE than the group they chased off because they descended to a level of violence and threats and an anti-democratic, anti-freedom credo.

Shame on you!

author by Cop onpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 14:39Report this post to the editors

These scumbags are not the usual rightwingers or nationalists they are fascists. They are not interested in polite debate their expressed goal is to smash democracy, look at their website. They want to break up trade unions, ban socialist and left wing parties, expell immigrants and all people of colour, they also wish to carry out a crusade against homosexuals. These people deny the holocaust and are admirers of Hitler. In many countries this group would be illegal. They need to be stopped now before they can grow and further spread their filth.

author by LYwatchpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 14:41Report this post to the editors

What is Labour Youth's position on this? Would they do as they did in UCC and join with the fascists in physically attacking left wing anti nazi protesters?

author by Homerpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 14:51Report this post to the editors

They need to be stopped you say. They need to be silenced you mean. Perhaps you'd be the first to volunteer to man the internment camps or put a bullet in their head but I treasure freedom and that includes the freedom to express an unpopular view or even a hateful agenda.

Yes, I get it that if these people ever took power then they wouldn't allow much freedom either but I don't see how this self-appointed left-wing ideology-police can claim to respect democracy and freedom while behaving like the Taliban.

author by AFpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 14:53Report this post to the editors

Homer,

Your point would be ok if you are talking about a normal party, even a right wing one. These people in the WNP/Combat 18 are in a different league. I am sure you will be aware that their appearence on the scene in NI has occured at the same time as an upsurge in violent attacks against minorities.
The WNP/C18 do not wait until they are in power to attack opponents they do it now.

Homer, how long would you wait until they are stopped? At what point should they be opposed?

author by Cop onpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 14:56Report this post to the editors

These people are fascists. Have a look at their website. They are not like any other political group. They are organising physical attacks against ethnic minorities, homosexuals and left wing and civil liberty groups.? Wherever these people get a base of support these attack soon follow, remember the race riots in Burnley and Oldham a couple of years ago? What about the freedom to live free from racist and bigotted attacks what about that? Does freedom of speech and organisation extend to using it to whip up racism and organise racist attacks?

author by Homerpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 14:58Report this post to the editors

I saw nothing about them behaving threatenly to anyone or causing any violence (I am aware of the history of this group by the way).

They were handing out leaflets and got threatened and chased away by thugs.

And you all applaud that?

Can you not see the irony?

author by gaillimhedpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 14:59Report this post to the editors

Ah who gives a fuck what Labour Youth have to say about this...
these guys are protecting their community from a real and present threat.
Come on Homer, what would you do if it was going on on your street? people getting burned out and beaten up by nazis, would you still hide behind your PC and condemn these boys for having bit of get up and go to protect what they believe in (and you) . Its not all fucking black and white out here in the real world,
(ha, excuse the unintended pun)

nazi bastards. racist scum.
sometimes you have to act and choose to compromise high ideals for a greater good.

author by AFpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:04Report this post to the editors

Homer,

There have been hundreds of attacks in Northern Ireland, these people make on excuses for themselves they are openly violent. Take a close look at the Combat 18 sticker in the photo this was taken from them.

Homer, will we wait until they kill someone, will that be the time to fight back?

author by cop onpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:05Report this post to the editors

yes I applaud the people who stood up to these nazi scum. Remember these nazis are not choir boys, they are hardened thugs who have a history of attacking ethnic minorities and burning people out of their homes.

You may wish to condemn the people who are defending their communities against nazi attacks, but I will not. You are effectivly acting as apologists for the activities of these fascists.

I'll ask you to answer this question, if ethnic minorites were being burned out of their homes by nazis in your area would you sit back and defend the 'right' of these fascists to organise and spread their fascist filth? Yes or no? You are either for Fascism or against it. which side are you on.

author by Durritipublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:05Report this post to the editors

Well done lads, if i was in Ireland i would have been there with yea.

Before i moved to away myself (late last summer)and my partner went up the north to see me mother, and this is what i saw and what happened to
me on my last day in Ireland.
This is the report i write up for the AFA web site

Members of Anti-Fascist Action recently observed members of the fascist
White Nationalist Party as they arrived into Portrush, Co Antrim, where
they were monitored and followed.

They choose to leaflet English reg cars which where parked close to the
town centre. The leaflets had a London address and were about ?bogus
refugees?
with several wives, stealing education, dole, etc for them. These where
removed as soon as they where posted.

It was then decided to remove the stickers put up around the local
British
Legion. These called for the Colombia Three to be hung along with the
old
English Nazi slogan ?Hang Ira Scum?. We found it ironic that the Nazis
were
walking past an Israeli flag flying in the centre of Portrush, beside a
Union Jack.

In other news from the North, local AFA activists removed fascist
stickers
in the village of Scrava (outside Banbridge). Locals were disgusted at
such
hatred being displayed on the recycling bins at the local park, and
called
for the local council to remove them. The council were to slow to move,
so AFA removed them to the locals? delight.

News has also been passed on to AFA about members and supporters of the
WNP in Belfast and Lisburn.

These fuckers have to be stoped, stand up to hate, never run away, leave this to the fash.
They shall not pass.

author by Homerpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:07Report this post to the editors

Well, you should be able to say whatever the hell you like. Yeah sure, hand out leaflets and the crappy flags if you wanna too.

I trust people to make up their own minds about it. I don't like the idea of some masked bully-boys coming around and telling people what they can and can't say. That's not a high-minded ideal at all. That's the very basic premise of freedom.

author by NoNaziScumpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:07Report this post to the editors

Homer would you have defended the 'right' of Hitler to deport and murder Jews? Afterall he was 'elected' and acted within the 'law'

author by Berniepublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:10Report this post to the editors

"That's the very basic premise of freedom"

What about the basic premise of freedom of being able to live in your own home free from racist attack?

These people are not just saddos handing out nazi memorabelia, they are ACTIVELY recruiting to burn out and attack ethnic minorities in the North Antrim area. How can you defend them doing this?

author by Homerpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:12Report this post to the editors

Oh yeah... "either with you or against you" eh?

I must support Hitler, eh?

Very clever guys...very clever.. nice to see reasonable, open and sophisticated debate tolerated.

author by Cop onpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:25Report this post to the editors

Well homer why are you not condemning fascist attacks in the North? Why are you not condemning Hitler?

Again answer the question that was put to you, would you sit back and defend the freedom of speech of nazis when these very same people are carrying out racist attacks on ethnic minorities.

Surely you would concede that freedom of speech does not extend to organising attacks on the chinese and african communities

author by Homerpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:33Report this post to the editors

Jesus man I DO condemn racist attacks I DO condemn Hitler! I can't believe that debate has gotten to this level that that needs to be explicitly stated!

I merely expressed misgivings at masked self-appointed ideology-police threatening and chasing off guys handing out leaflets.

Should those who perpetrate attacks on those of Chinese, Vietnamese and African descent be punished? Damn straight! Should there be a counter-argument to their vile lies and hateful agenda set up? Absolutely.

But neither do I trust some masked thugs who claim they'll only go after the BAD guys. After all, in questioning this action some of you already cast ME as one of the bad guys. Would it make it okay for them to after me then?

author by isaakpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:33Report this post to the editors

Ya, Sure...Now it seems that we are supposed to respect people with such motos:
"Ulster only white"
Do you have anything inside your head or are you only taking the piss?

Not a chance to fascism!

AL ENEMIGO NI AGUA !!!

author by AFpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 15:42Report this post to the editors

Homer,

The WNP/Combat 18 ARE the bad guys, they make on secret of it, they are an open violent Nazi group that organises to attack minorities, end democracy and implement a nazi system. They are involved in attacks already.

WHEN SHOULD PEOPLE FIGHT BACK?

author by Paddlefootpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 16:46Report this post to the editors

These fascist scum have as much right to push their agenda through leafleting and advertising as any other organisation. That's the point of free speech. Their opponents have an equal right to push their own agenda. If a group of white power morons chased away the anti fascist thugs and stole their leaflets people would be up in arms.

author by afpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 17:12Report this post to the editors

"the point of free speech"

The right to live free from attack

The right to walk the streets no matter what colour you are

The right to be in a union

The right to vote

The right to democracy

author by Homerpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 17:21Report this post to the editors

Thank you Paddle and AF. We are ALL entitled to live without the fear of attack. That these morons push their hateful agenda is wrong and should be countered but not by giving some self-appointed masked bully-boys a mandate to violently attack someone for handing out leaflets.

Furthermore, we all have a responsibility to challenge these racist scum but not by sacraficing the very freedoms we cherish. That's the very thing Bush et al are doing by using the War On Terror to erode our own freedoms. The irony of some commentators echoing Dubya's "either with us or against us" slogan has been lost on some people!

author by jhpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 17:26Report this post to the editors

yeah lets be pre-emptive about it?

author by afpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 17:27Report this post to the editors

Homer,

Some times you have to defend the right to free speech. That is the situation in North Antrim today. The wnp/c18 have created an atmosphere of fear where only they have free speach, it must be there for everyone.

Defend free speech - stop wnp/c18 attacks.

author by Leftish Yankpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 19:21Report this post to the editors

It's become obvious to me that Homer is a moderate liberal and AFA are radical leftists. I'm not criticizing, I'm just stating. As an ML, Homer believes on relying on state to fight racism. But many within the AFA are "revolutionaries" who believe that pursuing such a course means handing over more power to the state.

The thing is, can the state be relied on to fight racism all the time? Here in the US, there are frequent complaints of racial profiling and excessive force against minorities by the police. Prisons encourage racial strife among the inmates. We used to have something called the "House Un-Amercan Activities Committee" which in the beginning, interrogated and imprisoned Fascist leaders. But just seven years later, they turned 180 degrees and began a crack down on the Left. Not just leaders, but just about anyone they believed was a "Communist front" or "sympathizer".

I imagine it's not that different in the UK or Ireland.

author by AFpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 19:29Report this post to the editors

.

author by molitiopublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 19:46Report this post to the editors

Homer's points are honest, and he obiviously believes firmly in the prinicipals of democracy and justice. It is a little bit silly stating that he would be in some way for Hitler, or racist attacks - it undermines the argument. However, the viewpoint taken by Homer is terribly naive in the extreme, with no real understanding of the true nature of fascist organisations.

Hitler himself stated that the time to crush fascist organisations is in their infancy, when they have no real base amongst working class people and no real support.

If such groups are left alone to leaflet endlessly and work without extreme political pressure, then these groups can grow, as we saw in the early 80s in Northern Ireland.

This has been shown to be the case in the early 1990s when the BNP set up their national headquarters - within two years, there had been a 300% rise in racial attacks, and 4 separate race related murders, including that of Stephen Lawrence.

Homer, you obviously have a very liberal consciousness, but you are making the same mistakes as your own predeccessors -those who appeased Hitler in the 1930s and beforehand. True, there were other factors regarding appeasement, but that is an argument for another day.

The only way to stamp out fascism is to stamp upon these groups now. It has been shown to work, and it must work, to defend democracy itself.

author by skabosspublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 22:35Report this post to the editors

Nazi bashing is good fun, nevermind the wooly liberal snooty student, kid's gloves approach to dealing with fascists, or as lone dickhead likes to call his beloved hardmen nazi icons 'pros of the night'.

author by Lone Gunmanpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 23:40Report this post to the editors

from a moron called spaboss,who never read or chose to interpert them wrongly. I NEVER said I supported Neo nazis or AFA for that matter.I think both groups are made up of anti free speech thugs.What I said was that the left and AFA think they are the Hard men and women here in Ireland.But they have NOT yet run into the right wing boys and girls from Europe,who are a bit different from the wanna be storm troopers over here.This lot will not think twice of chopping into the opposition with any weapon to hand.They already have killed a few AFA and other left wing ex big mouths.Mock,insult,do what ever you like but when the right does show up here.I reckon big mouths like spaboss and co will be the first dead idiots of the left here.Thats if they dont run off pissing and bawling into the night.
Homer has been saying it right.Who the fuck died and left the AFA in charge?Vigilantism of the left.

author by Truthpublication date Tue Apr 13, 2004 23:48Report this post to the editors

Durriti - AFA had nothing at all to do with what happened in Portrush stop spreading misinformation.

author by ...publication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 00:42Report this post to the editors

not sp! not afa! who will it turn out to be:))

author by Drbinochepublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 00:56Report this post to the editors

OK I gotta go with Homeron this one. I don't think the guys who attacked theselads were in the right. It would be the same as a bunch of pro-war activists starting on a bunch of anti-war activists [oh Im just waiting for one of you to say something stupidlike The Garad do!!]. I don't agree with the WNP/C18 or theirideology, I believe that Ireland should be a free democratic state and that people should have the right to live as they please. But there in lies the problem, you can't say that you are democratic and ban the Nazi party. Its contradictory. Now if they spread lies [which they do], if they threaten immigrants [which SOME of them do], if they enage in dangerous and illegal activities [which again SOMEof them do] then these people should be arrested or dealt with legally. But if someone believes that they are spreading the truth, you can only do things effectively if you, show they are wrong, prove they are lying, counter-leaflet them etc. You have NO right to go out and sink to their levels.

If you guys wanna go on and on about how much damage they do up there fine, but please note that by attacking them you are, in the eyes of the law, no better than they. Oh and alot of the activities that they take part in, alot of the people here are as guilty of. Who amongst you do not support the CW5, who acted in a manner not unlike the WNP. Have any of you ever sprayed Grafitti, like the WNP have?? Leafletting an area with your philosophy/manifesto/beliefs, no different than the WNP. It saddens me to say it, but if you want to remove their right to do any of these activities then you too must be willing to forgo your right to do so.

Irrespective of your beliefs, you cannot have one system for them and one for you.

BTW, I condemn any racist attack up the north. I condemn Hitler and the Nazi party. I condemn their beliefs, I condemn behaviour. I condemn the WNP, and all they stand for, but I will fight for theirright to believe that if they want. If they begin attacking again, Ill condemn it and ask for those who orchestrate and carry out the attacks to be brought to justice, but you cannot start sanctioning peoples beliefs, no matter ho wrong and stupid they might be.

And lets the abuse begin!!!

author by pcpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 01:08Report this post to the editors

similar to the debate over stopping speakers at college allow them to speak but worke hard to show the blind hatred in their beliefs???

tough job

author by Grassroots activistpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 01:10Report this post to the editors

I just read the SP paper they have an article on Portrush so what does that indicate?

author by notemakerpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 05:40author email tele9090 at cermunnos dot orgReport this post to the editors

The lesson is Thuggery is ok as long as its perpetrated by marxists/socialists/anarchists. Becasue we must stop the Fascists!!! anyone read 1984 here?

author by north antrimpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 07:42Report this post to the editors

Not in my back yard.

No harm to anyone but i suspect that if we where talking about a bunch of nazi thugs who had carried out numerous attacks in your area this would be a different story.

THIS IS NOT A NORMAL POLITICAL PARTY
CHECK OUT THE WNP/c18 WEB SITE

author by WNP portrushpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 08:08Report this post to the editors

The WNP are saying on forums that the leaflets were just anti-paedophile ones and that four WNP members were attacked by over forty opponents.

Not really a victory when the odds were that stacked against them is it? The way you're crowing about it you'd think aboout forty nazis were routed by four anti-fascists.

author by blah blah blahpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:01Report this post to the editors

I'd probably agree with your drivel on freedom of speech if the state were banning certain political viewpoints, however offensive they are, simply because it's not for them to decide what's legitimate and what's not.

However, when members of a community decide they don't want racist, fascist scum trying to incite people to commit hate crimes in their area, they should kick the fuckers out.

And loner, you're right, luckily we haven't got the type of fascist gangs here that exist elsewhere in Europe, and by continuing actions like this, hopefully we'll keep them out.

The left in Europe aren't the pushovers you make them out to be, however. The nazis are consistently the losing side in encounters like this. I've met some AFA heads from Eastern Europe, and I wouldn't like to mess with them. Hopefully we never have a situation like that, where to be anarcho requires that you be a macho hard man type

author by By Any Means Necessarypublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:41Report this post to the editors

To all those who believe that debate and arguement will keep the Nazis and racists at bay...wake up !!!!
The only thing that supremacists respect is violence, it is hard to be the master race when the mud people are constantly physically defeating you, where ever and when ever you organise.
There can be no debate with these race haters, do not listen to liberals or pacifists, they will argue the rights and wrongs of physical confrontation..while the bodies of the innocent victims of racism pile up.

author by Antrimpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:48Report this post to the editors

Supporting the 'freedom of speech' for the WNP today is akin to supporting their campaign of intimidation against ethnic minorities in the North. By supporting their freedom to organise you are allowing them to recruit more members and spread more hate. Freedom of speech does not extend to the right to spread disgusting racist filth and freedom of organisation does not extend to freedom to organise racists attacks.

If 'homer' et al are genuine I would say to you, stop being used as tools for the fascists. And stop supporting their targetting of ethnic minorities.

author by red scarepublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 13:08Report this post to the editors

Well done lads/lassies. The only answer to fascism is a fist. Smash them off the streets! ZERO tolerance for Nazis. A group of 40 chased them away well lets hope the next time they raise their ugly mushes there is two hundred and forty.

These animals are putting emigrants through a living hell. Attacking the homes of the most vunerable in our society with endless treats of intimidation and actual assault in some cases.

Communities need to organise in the North against nazism. On the whole 'nationalist areas' appear to have a miminal degree of tolerance for racism but the 'loyalist areas' seem to turn a blind eye to it. Hopefully, some of the more 'radical' loyalists can organise some opposition.

author by Ho Hopublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 13:25Report this post to the editors

I dont believe the figure of 40. The fascists are just covering up their embarassment for getting a hammering.

author by Homerpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 14:24Report this post to the editors

I'm definitely NOT for appeasing the extreme right-wing. Far from it. They SHOULD be challenged. The racist attacks should be investigated by police, by independent parties and exposed by the press.

The real problem that has led to this attack is the traditional Nationlist/Republican vs Loyalist divide has schismed further along traditional left-wing/right-wing lines. Loyalist extremism has morphed quickly into race-hatred. The BNP has moved in, in an attempt to take advantage of this. Those of centre-left and extreme left have no trust in policing in the North (for obvious reasons).

The traditional far-left/anarchist response is not to trust state authority anyway and this has further ripened into violent vigilantism given the circumstances in the North.

Added to the perceived welcoming of these far-right groups by loyalism is the usual flaw in left-wing argument that people cannot be trusted to make their own decisions, that they somehow are overtly susceptible to right-wing propaganda. There is the very real fear that by recruiting even a very small number of agitators these groups can effect a much more damaging and dangerous campaign of violent intimidation of ethnic minorities. Now this is a very REAL fear.

The issue I raised was merely that these left-wing thugs are accountable to nobody. They hide their faces behind masks, claim to be fighting the good fight but refuse to engage with the institutions the state mainstream politicians and the rest of society are obliged to.

Now, if this independent news website is truly interested in individual analysis of a newsworthy item, without corporate or political agendas interference, then surely the contributors should welcome a more sophisticated or complex perspective on the story, rather than a simple defense and celebration of an outbreak of left-wing violent acts on people who were, remember not at the time engaged in a violent act but merely distributing political literature.

However, trying to posit this angle seems to have met with an ideological-driven response which is surely counter to the very notion of independent media.

author by By Any Means Necessarypublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:05Report this post to the editors

To oppose fascism is not thuggery, do you condemn the rights of black and ethnic people to defend themselves from racist attacks.
Your arguement is one lauded by members of far right organisations.."we're only being political, opponents to our politics are thugs, listen to the voice of the silent majority..rights for whites..!!
Then to attack postings which have discovered your far right tendencies is predictable..we are all driven by ideology..yours is that of the far right..nice try but you cannot fool the people all of the time..!

For An Ireland Free from Racism and Fascism.

author by aidanpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:12Report this post to the editors

just a note of congrats to all involved. Keep these scum off our shores

author by AFA Ireland - Anti Fascist Actionpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:13author email afa at ireland dot comReport this post to the editors

Some confusion seems to have arisen on here that the group responsible for slapping the WNP in Portrush was AFA. It was not. A member of AFA did post a comment about a previous activity in Portrush but that is all.

If AFA had carried out this action we would have said so. It was carried out by a number of people based on the North and a few from the South who are active in a number of different groups. Anyone who is genuinely interested in finding out can do so easily enough, it is ridiculous to expect the people involved to put their details on a website. They wish to be known as the Fascists Out! Campaign, which is fair enough.

AFA would like to congratulate the Fascists Out! Campaign, it is good to see militant anti-fascists active, irrespective of what group/s they are in.

NO PASARAN!

Related Link: http://www.geocities.com/irishafa/firstnews.html
author by observerpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:27Report this post to the editors

These scum are some of the more radical loyalists.

author by AFA supporterpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 15:32Report this post to the editors

it would be great if the Fascists Out! Campaign in north antrim could link up with AFA for future action. It's all in our interests to make sure that the seeds of fascism do not get a chance to grow in the North.

author by omega supremepublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 16:55Report this post to the editors

What was it twenty commies against two nazis this time. Or did it even happen who knows. The flags arent particularly difficult to get, all you have to do is climb a lamp post in some estates or buy them from the internet.

A question to some AFA members how many of you attacked that holocaust denier bloke in dublin. I heard it was 19 on 1. Of course you just ponced around in Bruxelles when it was about 5 Nazis to 8 or 9 AFA members. All us neutrals in the bar were laughing our heads off at you.

Anyway good hunting.

author by Kingmanpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 17:03Report this post to the editors

Do we not need to separate between those who talk and those that do? Revisionist historians have been physically opposed by left-wing groups in campuses across the country, there to express views that exist in the world. They should be allowed to talk, however those that attack and burn and terrorise should be opposed in every way possible, firstly reverting to law, and if that does not suffice physically stopping them and destroying their ability to carry out these acts.

If we fall into the trap of equating talking with action through some simple justification 'they are propagating hate which will result in action' we fall into a trap. We come to a situation where we have an 'ideology police' and those expressing views become responsible, even without proof, for the violent actions of others.

Why is their no anti-Muslim league, why are there no active efforts to stop those who spread violence using the cover of Islam. Should the preaching of people from a pulpit be enough to convict? Do you want to apply your ideas society wide or is it only one place at one time.

I support this action as I would oppose any violence in my backyard but we need perspective and not simple answers.

author by Homerpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 17:37Report this post to the editors

I think you'll find there is ample evidence of the atrocities perptrated by the NZAI regime in World War 2.

Your hate mongering wil never stand up to the body of evidence gathered.

Holocaust denial isn't a rational reaction to this "propaganda" as you call it. It's predicated upon selective and flawed reasoning. Simply, this disgusting view doesn't stand against the weight of evidence and eye-witness accounts.

Besides it has no relevance to the debate being waged here. Please fuck off you bigot!

author by Downsociaistpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 18:20Report this post to the editors

Well done lads! No pasaran! No platform for fascists!

author by Anti-Racist - Nonepublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 19:00Report this post to the editors

It's about time these Nazis were physically confronted. I don't know if the Fascists Out Campaign is organised anywhere else in the North, but we badly need an effective anti-racist campaign in Belfast. Keep up the good work.

author by KQpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2004 22:23Report this post to the editors

There is a need to build the AF group.

Help out contact - fascistsout@hotmail.com

author by in the knowpublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 00:18Report this post to the editors

a question to afa member who was in portrush a while back when you said you mointored and followed these lads, i also seen them that day and there was only 2 of them why did you not attack them or do you need 40 before yous do that

author by Neutral - nonepublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 13:55author email thmpsonal at hotmail dot comauthor address Englandauthor phone 04353368909Report this post to the editors

Communism murdered twice as many as nazism did yet you support it, heard of the Gulag etc

author by another tcd studentpublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 14:43Report this post to the editors

If somebody is using their right to free speech to deny somebody else their right, then they can be silenced. If not, then you have no place silencing them.

Saying that the WNP are far-right and that they're racist doesn't make it okay to silence them. Silencing somebody else is only permissible when there is a clear and present danger to somebody else's more fundamental rights. Handing out leaflets doesn't qualify. Speaking at debates doesn't qualify.

I don't believe that fascists are right. I don't believe that racists are right. I believe that they have rights.

The silencing by force of fascists in this country is sickening. I sat in the chamber of the GMB last year when Jorg Haider was there. I saw Helen Szamuely explain how she'd lost her entire family in the Holocaust but still felt it was necessary to debate rather than silence, which was why she'd braved the ranks of SWP members who, to their disgrace, yelled "Nazi cunt" at her on her way into the building. The same people then drowned out her explanation of her losing her family to the camps by chanting the names of those camps in an effort to embarass Haider.

If you disagree with them, then argue with them. If you want, follow them while they give out leaflets and explain to people why fascism is wrong. But don't stoop to oppression.

author by By Any Means Necessarypublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 15:00Report this post to the editors

I love it, the far right and its allies have woken up and look at the posts above...
I'll answer the TCD student..do you really expect black and ethnic minorities to debate with race haters..to debate with the savages who believe in burning down hostels where immigrants are housed..the racist right uses violence freely why is it that people like yourselves only appear when the "victims" fight back ?
Europe was built on the bones of millions of dead Africans and Asians, the USA on slavery and genocide..where does that put your poster Democrat..?

author by Durritipublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 16:31Report this post to the editors

i followed and removed their crap, and deceided to confront the three of them, when i and my partner went for one of them, they must have had spotters, as there was lods of them come runnin over,we were well out numbered, so we headed back to find there van.

author by in the knowpublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 19:20Report this post to the editors

so you are saying that you ran cos you where out numbered so whats the big deal then how do you think the nazis felt when they where out numbered , why did you not smash there van

author by In the knowpublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 22:00Report this post to the editors

I hear from the C18's Yahoo groups which I conned my way into (use 88 or 14 in your hotmail address and you're in) that a couple of the WNP/C18 attacked in Portrush are also members of Antrim's nail bomb brigade, namely the UFF, and they're not happy about what happened so in future caution should be taken I think.

How many anti-fascists were there that attacked the four WNP leafletters? The WNP figure of 40 hasn't been officially denied so I take it it's accurate meaning it isn't exactly a victory when the loyalists welcome the nazis with open arms at their parades in the summer.

author by anti racist loyalistpublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 22:25Report this post to the editors

i was in ballymoney on easter monday and there was about 30 of these cunts all big ugly lads , but anyway they handed out wnp leaflets and gave c18 stickers to anyone who would have them and there was no shortage of takers , and there where a few well know loyalists among them so yes i think we need to be careful if we confront them again espically if these loyalists are among there members , by the way ballymoney is plastered in c18 stickers

author by afpublication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 22:35Report this post to the editors

a little bird tells me that the wnp are not so popular in areas of Antrim. Some of the loyalist organisations remember that the same people have very strange connections never mind the fact that they where on the wrong side in WW2

author by star59publication date Thu Apr 15, 2004 22:42Report this post to the editors

"very strange connections?"

such as who, exactly?

author by Barnypublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 01:54author email barny_white at hotmail dot comReport this post to the editors

Great Job chasing of the Nazis!
That’s one in the eye for democracy.

Some of you people have no idea what democracy is supposed to represent.
You swap one sort of oppressive beliefs an actions for another when you deny the freedom to speak and express ideas and opinions.

Democracy whether you like it or not involves the rite to express opinions or ideas.
Democracy also means that we should not be denied the rite to listen to opinions or ideas.
Democracy means that we have the rite as individuals to Asses, evaluate and evolve opinions based on what we hear.
Democracy means that no group or government should tell us what we have to listen to or believe.

So what if you do not agree with the WNP or C18 politics.

Guess what!

Democracy also means that you have the rite not to listen!
You do not have the rite to deny other people an opportunity to hear!

If the politic of any organisation do not represent the majority view and opinion of the voters, then due democratic process would show this by people not voting for those organisations. If they are wrong let them be seen to be wrong.
If you silence the politics it only shows that you are scared of them becoming popular.
But there again if they are correct they will become popular.

Getting the Idea yet!

Do not forget also that times and situations change and what might not be a suitable set of policies for today may be tomorrow.

History has proven that when you take away the voice other means of expressing ones beliefs and opinions are found. As the people of Ire and Londonderry know only too well.

You may kill the man but the idea will live on!

Regards

author by R Isiblepublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 01:58Report this post to the editors

who are being burnt out of their homes and intimidated by the racists.

Here's a couple of other things about "democracy" Barry:

1. Its protections and mechanism only apply to those that agree to abide by its rules. Fascists don't agree with those rules so they don't get treated the same way.

2. Democracy isn't a simple majority vote.

author by kristianpublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 02:04Report this post to the editors

Well,that was brave of you!!40 on 4!!!?????

author by afpublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 02:23Report this post to the editors

40 against 3 doesnt sound to good until you think thats 40 against 3 members of the master race:)))

author by Barny Whitepublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 02:27Report this post to the editors

“Its protections and mechanism only apply to those that agree to abide by its rules. Fascists don't agree with those rules so they don't get treated the same way.”

This phrase is a bit of a paradox don’t you think?

Who creates the rules?

We all do when we vote for organisations policies.

Don’t you see that if what you are saying is correct then the organisation in question would never be voted in because the majority of people would not agree with them breaking the rules.
Democracy as we know it is not at all perfect but there is many countries through out the world that would love the opportunity for it.

Regards

author by R Isiblepublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 02:40Report this post to the editors

Barry wrote: "This phrase is a bit of a paradox don’t you think?" No, it's not a paradox. Fascists explicitly say that they don't believe in democracy so why should the rules of democracy apply to them. It is illogical to vote for a fascist party and they should not be allowed to contend in democratic processes. Of course it is not enough to simply allow "the majority" to declare some group as "fascist" and exclude them on that basis. There has to be some proof of their fascism: such as an explicit identification with the ideas and beliefs of fascism. This clearly includes people such as the WNP. On the contrary it would be paradoxical to extend particpation in democracy to people whose objective is to remove democracy and replace it with fascism. There are very few people or groups that are stupid enough to explictly identify themselves as fascists and then expect to be treated as democrats. The WNP would appear to be one group of these boneheads. Personally I'm surprised that they were able to find their way about in a van let alone print words on paper.

author by Barny Whitepublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 03:05Report this post to the editors

No Paradox. Just boneheaded stupidity on the part of Fascists.

So are you saying that we have to deny the rite for people to vote for an organisation that denies democracy?

Hear lies the paradox.

To say this end democracy and starts dictatorship.

So we end up with a dictatorship of one degree or another.

“Democracy for me states that If I have to live with a dictatorship then let it be one of my choosing not one that has been forced upon me.”

Regards

author by Martinpublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 03:08Report this post to the editors

I've just read down this thread, and have read a lot of 'liberal' twaddle.

The WNP are an organisation hell bent on destroying democracy and creating misery for anyone and everyone in their way, however, they're tiny. This makes it all the more praiseworthy that Irish anti-fascists sent them with their tails between their legs.

The naive such as Homer that have posted need to realise that their freedom to believe and say what they want is not god-given or inherent in their own existance, it's earnt, and therefore to be defended.

The first defence of it is to send the Nazis who'd deny it scurrying for cover and their keyboards.

Whoever you are, I salute you! Our movement fought the same battle in Spain, and many of us still fight against the haters in the communities of England. Keep it up, keep the bastards down and NO PASARAN!

author by Mepublication date Fri Apr 16, 2004 08:28Report this post to the editors

One of my Grandads has recently died.
He spent five years of his life stopping Hitler and his ideas from entering our green and beautiful island.

Now, it seems, his belief in NOT HAVING A RIGHT TO A VOICE AND PERSONAL THOUGHTS and the right to express yourself in a free country are being underminded by people who are obviously thinking along the lines of Hitler by stopping the distribution of literature.

If it really is a problem, let the people decide.

Do not force YOUR views onto a free nation.

author by october_lostpublication date Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:47author email october_lost at yahoo dot co dot ukReport this post to the editors

I think some people are missing the point, freedom is a very wide concept and defending it doesnt mean allowing scum like the WNP room to organise.

I would draw a distinction between expressing an undemocractic view and actually organising around it. The former is acceptable because its a part and parcel of someones freedom, even if we dont like it, but the latter infringes on others freedom since it seeks to intimidate and provoke.

I think stuff like this really does highlight the fallacy of liberalism. Exactly when does fascism become too much? I would have said from the word go.

Anyway except for liberal hysteria good on you lads keep up the good work....!!!

author by Barny Whitepublication date Tue Apr 20, 2004 19:24Report this post to the editors

“I think some people are missing the point; freedom is a very wide concept”

Yes I agree to the above, but it is only a wide concept due to the rules and interpretation of them that make it so. As long as human rights pertaining to freedom are not contravened then there is no problem!

I have heard many comments about fascists etc. But why does a fascist organisation have to be one that employs tyranny? OK some but not all have employed tyranny to oppress and control people but not all and you certainly don’t need to be a fascist to do that as recent events have shown.


If you become a fascist we will condemn you before you have committed a crime!

Just a few points to think about.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Just a point of referance.
Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
Article 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Article 20
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Regards.

author by fight fascismpublication date Wed Apr 28, 2004 13:26Report this post to the editors

There's been a lot of liberal talk about the right to speech for the nazi's and condemning of the attacks against neo-nazis.

You say that don't attack the nazi's and at the same time say that it's up to the cops to investigate the matters. Well, you are resorting to violence with this comment. The police is an institution based upon violence or the threat of it.

You'll propably say something about the legitimacy of the police, that we've "chosen" them by voting or something like that.

What then when the cops don't do nothing to stop the racist attacks? Are the locals supposed to stay cowering in their homes afraid of the nazis, because it's against the law to drive the nazi-thugs away?

I'm not from Ireland, and I don't know what the situation is there, but where I live the cops haven't done anything to the nazis. Maybe arresting one now and then, but it hasn't helped.

So, here the local kids (whites and immigrants) organized spontaneously to fight the nazi-thugs. 50 kids went hunting the nazis who had beaten up an immigrant family and their 3 year old kid. A couple nazis were attacked and bashed. After that action, racist violence ended for a while. The local parents and other elder folk supported the action, said that it's great that someone fights the fascist-scum back.

Violence isn't a solution, you may get temporary gains with it, but anti-fascism shouldn't be built upon only violence. The means create the end. With only violence we'll be in a situation that can be only kept by violence. But sometimes violence is necessary, even if it contradicts with "freedom of speech".

But please don't say that you are against violence and in the next phrase say that it's up to the cops to do something to the nazis. That is a paradox.

author by Anti-idiotarianpublication date Wed Apr 28, 2004 18:14Report this post to the editors

I always get worried when people start to finesse the meaning of words like freedom or democracy. Before you know it they start appearing in inverted commas. Then people tell us that they're a sham, that they don't really exist, or that there are more important things to worry about (in this case fighting a repulsive, but small fascist tendancy).

"Sometimes you've gotta curtail "Liberty" and "Democracy" in order to protect ourselves from this scum" - could have come straight out of the mouth of George W Bush, couldn't it?

Do we only disprove of these tactics when they're used by people we don't like, or are we a little more principled than that?

author by Sandra Barrpublication date Mon May 24, 2004 18:06author email sandra5361 at aol dot comReport this post to the editors

Well done facists out for standing up to these hoods, racists and thugs.
For hundreds of years Ulster people have traveled the globe in search of work and a better life, now that we have people coming here in search of the same, we should treat them with respect.
For 30 years we have had to live with violence and killing, now that our country is healing we need to stop these hoods from spreading their hatred and poison. They are social misfits, who look for excuses to pedal their evil, for many years they used religion as their excuse, now that the people of Ulster have made it clear that they no longer want any part in that war, they have found a new excuse, the colour of peoples skin, I hope and pray that they are wiped out before their evil sucks anyone into their web.

author by Man Monkey - Nonepublication date Sat Jun 05, 2004 00:34author address North East EnglandReport this post to the editors

Good on the boys and girls who chased the fascist scum out of Portrush. Its a risky business but keep at it. And to all those who condemm them - just think about what those nazis want to do. They want to kill people who live in our communities - be they black, gay or lesbian, trade unionists, disabled young old. So we need to fight back and drive them out off the streets and physically defend our communities. And that doesn't mean that we are not democratic or in favour of free speech - it just means that we are standing up for ourselves and our neighbours. Many people in our communities are already discriminated against and oppressed - that means that they may not be able to defend themselves alone - we have to do it with them. Don't wait for them to ask you to help - as if you don;t stand up they will see you as unwilling to help defend them. Next time it may be you who needs their help.

Remember the words of Pastor Neilmoller - "When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church — and there was nobody left to be concerned."

I remember the NF marching in Coleraine maybe 20 years ago - I was there on the counter demonstration. Many at that time were too frightened to stand up and be counted. I did stand up and am proud that I did. Since then I have stood and fought against the fascists in defemnce of the community I live in. When I am back in the North Coast area over the summer I will gladly assist in keeping North Antrim scum-free.

author by Realistpublication date Sun Sep 12, 2004 01:23Report this post to the editors

The worse dictatorships are the ones where the people believe they are free.

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