BNP Start Irish Campaign

by Janus Fri Mar 05, 2004 15:25

An opinion piece on the need to change rules regarding racist postings.
I want to begin from the very, very start to say what this post is NOT. It is not an attack on Indymedia, it is not an attack on the Indymedia editors and nor is it a rant about how we're all being censored by a secret cabal of power mad Indymedia editors.

For only the second time I can think of a story of mine was deleted this morning. The reason is the same as with the first. I provided links to articles on the British National Party homepage.

The reason I did, was that the two sites dealt with attempts by the BNP to 'organise' the Irish and support Irish racists get a party off the ground.

It is, by any stretch of the imagination, newsworthy, even if it is a desperate grab for publicity attention, on the off-chance it is not, anti-racists should be informed. It also gives an insight into how the BNP view Ireland and their stance in regard to it.

Someone deleted it. They did so in accord with Indymedia regs forbidding links to racists posts so I am not quibbling with the decision, but with the rank idiocy in the regulations.

There is a world of difference between me posting a story about the BNP in the manner of a warning and providing links to the necessary information, and the BNP coming on to Indymedia and spreading racist propaganda.

Frankly I think whoever put the rule in there was worried that Indymedia might be used to spread racist material, not that it might be used by anti-racists to share information.

I like to think of myself, rightly or wrongly, as fairly open-minded and willing to give people the benefit of the doubt and I DO accept that whoever deleted the post acted in accordance with guidelines, if an extremely strict interpretation, but this rule is nonsensical if it prevents anti-racists sharing information about racism.

by an editor - Indymedia Ireland Fri Mar 05, 2004 15:47

Just to explain - I edited your original post so info could be conveyed but with links removed so it stayed within letter of the 'law'. I however stupidly forgot to complete the process by unhiding the article. I think we would all agree with your opinion that the site shouldn't stop anti-racist ppl communicating about such matters. We however have a consensus policy not to link to racist sites/materials. Hope this helps.

by Janus Fri Mar 05, 2004 16:00

I'm aware of the policy and I have no problem with you personally in that I know you acted in accordance with the policy. My question is whether this is the right policy. I think this is an issue worth talking out on Indymedia.

I'm aware the decisions are made in meetings off the internet, and I am equally aware those meetings are open to all, but people outside Dublin, and even those in it cannot attend.

I would like the issue to be discussed at the next meeting though. I agree, people who want to know can find their way to the BNP website without our help, but why not provide the link in that case and make it easier for them?

Perhaps the regulation could be amended to delete posts containing racist links that could be reasonably construed to be promoting or advocating racism?

Once again, no problem with the decision taken, but with the actual policy on which it was taken.

by Spitfire_Mk_III Fri Mar 05, 2004 16:03

Isn't a heads up to the anti-racists also a heads up to the racists too!

And links are hardly necessary if the material is easily available via search engine.

Posts advocating racism should be deleted (with or without links), but those against it should stand (even if they contain links)

by Aidan - IMC editorial Fri Mar 05, 2004 16:17

Janus,

IMC and IMC Ireland are very concerned with the newswire being used for the promotion of hate and racism.

Up until a few years ago indymeida.org had a newswire, until an active and prolonged campaign by neo-nazi of anti semitic propaganda (some old nazi cartoons) forced indymedia.org to close down it's open wire.

indymedia ireland has been the target an several occasions by less sucessful campaigns from individuals on the neo nazi website stormfront, who've taken issue with the site and launched occasional attacks on threads.

Brian Noone and other holocaust deniers have tried to publish on the site, some of the stuff is fairly brilliant in the manner it tries to disguise the article as a "pro free speech" or serious "balanced" article on revisionism. So we operate a blanket bad

We are well aware of the rise of facist groups in ireland, but will not give them a mouth piece.

If you're so concerend about this issue, read the pieces and write a summary of what they said, and then post it here, do not post links.

Finally if you're so concerned about editorial policy, any questions about editorial policy can be raised and debated on editorial lists.

by an imc editor Fri Mar 05, 2004 18:13

Janus - the ed guidelines which were recently published were in fact thrashed out on the lists in bits and pieces on an ongoing basis since the site began. We actually end up avoiding discussing them much at infrequent meetings as it is a minefield and hours can go by. In fact one of the people who contributed most in last few months on the guidelines front does not even reside on our fair isle. They are not as yet definitive as we have to revisit them at some stage soon to definitively approve them and put them on a permanent page.

The guideline which affected your post was not argued against at all in my recollection so I'm sure a devils advocate would be welcome on the lists.

Aidan is correct about Indymedia.org open wire to an extent - It was disappeared for a while but is back and available thru a link at the top of features newswire at www.indymedia.org. It seems more moderated lately though I haven't gone 'behind the scenes' to see if this is actually the case.

by majella Fri Mar 05, 2004 23:00

Most people know the racist policies of the BNP and its attempt to exploit zenophobia.

Nazis should use their own unpopular websites to advertise on, instead of resorting to snivelling/begging to use indymedia to publicise under disguise their unpopular racist pogroms through the backdoor .

by Des Sat Mar 06, 2004 00:02

Fair play to the BNP for helping Ireland.

by Steve Sun Mar 07, 2004 19:10

Explain to me, how are they helping anyone? Try not to include any of the usual crap about national identity or the economy or racial purity.

by AFA Ireland - Anti-Fascist Action Ireland Mon Mar 08, 2004 19:36 afa at ireland dot com C/o PO Box 3355, Dublin 7, Ireland

Today (8.3.04) on The Last Word on Today FM Nick Griffin (BNP leader) was debating Fergus Finlay (Labour Party functionary). Griffin was on about organising a financial appeal so that the BNP could take out ads in Irish newspapers.

Consequent on this the following AFA statement was sent to ‘The Last Word’.

+++++++++++++++

AFA Statement re: BNP Spokesperson on ‘Last Word’

Anti-Fascist Action (AFA) wish to point out that this announcement from the BNP is unlikely to be anything more that their usual publicity stunt, to get radio interviews such as this one. In the past 5 years the BNP have made several threats to run candidates in various elections in Northern Ireland, but have not done so.

Two years ago the BNP attempted to make links with a racist in North Dublin, offering to support him in the establishment of an Irish party. He carried out some local leafleting with racist material. When confronted with arguments by anti-fascists and local residents in the North Inner City he fled. Shortly afterwards Anti-Fascist Action revealed this individual’s details to the media and once articles appeared he went to ground and has not been seen since.

In 2003 and 2004 a BNP speaker was supposed to address debates at University College Cork. On both occasions the ‘debates’ were cancelled after pretty mildly worded protests from anti-racists. For UCC the BNP demanded £1,000 from the organisers so that they could provide their own ‘security’ for an academic discussion!. How much will ‘security’ cost them in Ireland’s working class estates?

It would re-pay the BNP well to note that Irish people do not take kindly to Fascist pro-Loyalists attempting to import themselves into Ireland. Even the handful of Irish Nazis operating on the internet have been overwhelmingly opposed to the BNP being active in Ireland. Regardless of what the BNP say about establishing an ‘Independent’ Irish group, this is nonsense. Anyone they appoint as a leader will have to face a large number of Irish Anti-Fascists and other anti-racists, they will be exposed in the media and in their own local areas as tools of the BNP.

Anyone allowing themselves to be used by the BNP, or otherwise organising racism in Ireland, will face personal consequences for their actions.

[Statement Ends]

by PR person Mon Mar 08, 2004 23:10

Fergus Finlay must be slipping, to allow a bnp nonentity be presented on the same level as himself. I thought he was an experienced media person with some cop-on. I must have overestimated him.