SInn Féin Support Grows

by Hebe Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:38

attacking SF on the Bin Tax. I am sure that will change the minds of thousands. BTW. How did the SP figure in the poll in Dublin?

by SF=Capitalist Party Fri Feb 06, 2004 13:21

The privatised car park at the Royal Hospital made £600,000 last year - the Royal got £40,000. That's 7p in every pound. The company is laughing all the way to the bank. The hospital actually pays the comapny to subsidise parking for hospital workers, nurses etc.

Guess who handed over the Royals assets to the multinational?

Yep Sinn Fein's minister - de Brun.

Expect more privatising from these hypocrites if they make a breakthrough.

by Democratic Socialist Fri Feb 06, 2004 13:47

At least SF are on the road to democracy. A pathway which has never been followed by the SP. The SP believe in smashing all their opponents. Read their bloodthirsty rantings on the Socialist Youth discussion board. They boast of how they will smash FF and the other "bosses" parties. They defend the banning of strikes and militarisation of labour by a "Revolutionary Government". They also want to bring Ireland back under British control in their "Socialist federation of the British Isles".

by Intrigued Fri Feb 06, 2004 13:58

1. The people of Ireland have the right to national self-determination.

Q. Is SF calling for withdrawal from the EU?

If the answer is no then how is it possible for Ireland or any other country to maintain national self-determinism?

Q. If SF are successful in the Euro Election, which group will they align themselves to?

by Hebe Fri Feb 06, 2004 14:02

At 15% in Dublin SF are well placed to take a Euro seat, it might well be a transfer from Joe Higgins likely 2% that elects Mary Lou. Why they might even apply to join the PES. Now what would DeRossa think of that?!

by Intrigued eile Fri Feb 06, 2004 14:03

1. The people of Ireland have the right to national self-determination.

Q. Do the SP think they don't

Q. If SP are successful in the Euro Election, which group will they align themselves to?

by Democratic Socialist Fri Feb 06, 2004 14:32

They Forgot To Give The New Line To DSM
'For example, as the socialists in Britain, members of the CWI, advocate for a socialist independent Scotland and a socialist federation of the British Isles.'

But as the questioner above asked, do the SP support indepence for Ireland?

Thats from the website of the Democratic Socialist Movement . So if the SP never called for a socialist federation of the British Isles, where did the Nigerians get this slogan from?

by SP member Fri Feb 06, 2004 15:38

"1. The people of Ireland have the right to national self-determination.

Q. Do the SP think they don't"

No, the people of all countries have the right to self determination. The Socialist Party stands for the working class control of this country and all countries, not the control of the bosses. Sinn Féin think that the bourgeois still have a role to play in an all-Ireland state.

"Q. If SP are successful in the Euro Election, which group will they align themselves to?"

Unlike Sinn Féin the Socialist Party are a part of an international organisation- the Committee for a Workers' International. The CWI are standing elsewhere in Europe.

I would like to know who Sinn Féin are going to join (if anyone) if they do win a seat in the European Parliament.

by Yossarian Fri Feb 06, 2004 15:48

"1. The people of Ireland have the right to national self-determination.

Q. Is SF calling for withdrawal from the EU?

If the answer is no then how is it possible for Ireland or any other country to maintain national self-determinism?"

Unfortunately, the people of Ireland determined (themselves) through successive referenda to hand a large part of their self-determination to the EU. I suppose it's like, given the freedom of choice, some might choose to let others make their decisions. For right or wrong, our involvement in the EU has the backing of the majority of people who voted in all the various referenda (except of course Nice 1), based on their understanding of the referenda proposals (brought to them by those agents of balance and wisdom, the media).

by Observor Fri Feb 06, 2004 15:48

"Unlike Sinn Féin the Socialist Party are a part of an international organisation- the Committee for a Workers' International. The CWI are standing elsewhere in Europe."

But they CWI are not going to win seats anywhere are they? Seeing as you are about why dont you tell us how your Nigerian chums got their federation of the British isles slogan.

by Lefty Fri Feb 06, 2004 21:12

On the rise of Sinn Fein in the opinion polls - is this a surprise - NO. The likelyhood is that Sinn Fein will significantly increase their number on local councils in June. In relation to the Euros, Sinn Fein may win a seat although it is possible that Joe Higgins could take the seat instead. He is far better known than Mary Lou and has a far higher profile. It is possible that there are two seats up for grabs in Dublin as the Greens seem to be in trouble.

The SP are not included in opinion polls - probably on purpose. I mean they still include the Workers Party!!!!

There is another interesting aspect of Sinn Fein's electoral campaign for June. In many area a bloodbath (metaphorically speaking) is taking place. There has been a significant increase in the number of people joining SF jumping at the prospect of establishing a political career. This appears to be encouraged by the leadership. In many areas older and more established figures are being shafted by the new young? guns. Some councillors have even been shafted - one former ard comhairle member in Clare was replaced by someone that joined Sinn Fein in the last couple of years - leading to significant resignations in the area and recriminations in the local media. I have heard that similar things have happened in Galway, Mayo, Limerick and the midlands. Fallon (from a different thread) is undoubtedly an example of this. Mary Lou (Euro candidate) is a former leading figure in Fianna Fail. These changes, similar to what has occurred in the North, will undoubtedly have an effect on Sinn Fein's attitude to coalition, etc. They already have a history of doing deals with right-wing parties on local councils (not just Sligo). This tendancy will most likely be accelerated after the election.

by matt Fri Feb 06, 2004 22:10

Where did you get this shite? You obviously know nothing about SF.

As for Higgins taking the seat, I will offer you a bet of 1000 Euros to 200 that ML will beat him in the Euros. Put your money where yur mouth is.

by Lefty Fri Feb 06, 2004 23:48

Have a look through the regional newspapers over the past couple of weeks and you will see many stories about internal fighting and resignations.

by matt Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:55

Mary Lou was a leading member of FF??

Who told you this?

Of course SF has former members of other parties, including the SP, who have joined and vote for it. That is how parties grow you do realise. The only people being "shafted" are people who are not up to their job. Clare, by the way, is probably the weakest part of country for SF so obviously internal change is inevitable.

Notice you didnt mention the former Orange Order member who has joined SF in Derry. If that happened to SP, it would be heralded as the dawn of the proletarian revolution.

Bet still stands....my 1000 to your 200

by Lefty Sat Feb 07, 2004 14:36

1) Was Mary Lou a member of Fianna Fail?

2) Did she hold any position on any of the national bodies of Fianna Fail?

3) Did she ever attempt to get a nomination to run for Fianna Fail in election?

4) When did she join SF?

by papa smurf Sat Feb 07, 2004 16:43

A biographical profile of May Lou on electionsireland.org

http://www.stormcentre.net/elections/people/m/bio/mcdonald_marylou.html

by Observor Sat Feb 07, 2004 18:59

"Why has a post on SF turned into a rant against SP....again"

It might have something to do with the eabid attack on SF in comment 2, very likely by a SP member.

by Lefty Sun Feb 08, 2004 02:16

Please clarify:

1)That Mary Lou is not as well known as Joe Higgins?

2) That Mary Lou was a former member of Fianna Fail?

3)That a former ard comhairle member of Sinn Fein was deselected and replaced by someone that has recently joined Sinn Fein, prompting the resignation of the majority of the branch and ongoing recriminations in the local media?

4) That something similar occured in Limerick, where a leading member resigned and joined Republican Sinn Fein?

5) That Sinn Fein have done deals with right-wing parties on local councils outside of Sligo? Please explain how Mike McKee became the first Sinn Fein councillor to be elected chair of a local council in the south when he was the only SF member on the council?

6) That people have joined Sinn Fein in an effort to build a political career for themselves? This is a matter of personal opinion and could hardly be classed as a false personal allegations. Incidentally I personally know all of the people that I have referred to here, including Mary Lou, as well as a number of other leading Sinn Fein figures (with the exception of Brendan Fearon -spelt his name wrong the last time) and to be honest its not that difficult to spot the careerists a mile off.

You said "Of course SF has former members of other parties... That is how parties grow you do realise. "

This often happens among right-wing parties but not that common among left-parties. (this is not a swipe at Sinn Fein's position on the political landscape, merely a statement of opinion)

"The only people being "shafted" are people who are not up to their job. Clare, by the way, is probably the weakest part of country for SF so obviously internal change is inevitable."

This is interesting as Clare is traditionally one of the most republican parts of the country and also has a large number of people living there that were originally from the north. Maybe the reason Sinn Fein as weak in Clare is down to "people not up to the job" but I can assure you the new "leading light" in Clare is very ambitious and more interested in a political career than anything else. What party they are involved in is largely irrelevent to this person (something that has been alluded to in the local media).

"Notice you didnt mention the former Orange Order member who has joined SF in Derry. If that happened to SP, it would be heralded as the dawn of the proletarian revolution"

I think the thrust of this comment is implying that I am a member of the SP. Jumping to conclusions here a bit "matt". The only reference I made to the SP was that they appear to have been excluded from opinion polls. I suggested that Joe Higgins could win a seat in the Euros possibly instead of Mary Lou, or possibly with Mary Lou (athough this is significantly less likely). You may have some detailed personal knowledge but many political commentators are suggesting this is possible (see last Sunday's Business Post for example). From what I have heard the SP appear to be concentrating more on the locals than the Euros. I have no doubt SF will make a big push for the Euros in Dublin. Adams is hardly ever photographed now without Mary Lou looking over his shoulder, and of course SF have significantly more money than the SP for the campaign ( I am sure SF's american supporters will be happy to give large donations in order to ensure that a candidate like Higgins is not elected).

Glad to see that you accept that you contravened imc guidelines with your post however I think your rant was way off the mark both in tone and content. If you get so easily frazzled by such comments then you should consider finding something other than politics to be involved in. Flying off the handle like you did is of no credit to you or your party. Incidentally, a bit of advice, if you intend making similar allegations again I suggest you have a chat with the Sinn Fein legal department first whom I am sure would be able to give you some very good advice. This is in the interests of indymedia just as much as yourself.

by matt Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:43

You know well what the personal allegations were. My response was based on fact and on the internal regime of SP and way they treat their dissidents. There's a lot more there as well concerning some very interesting personal connections to criminals which are not for here. So be careful what you start to throw around. You're not dealing with some constituency LP.

by pat c Sun Feb 08, 2004 15:57

While the poll never mentioned the SP, this in itself is interesting. If there had been a surge in support for the SP, this would surely have been mentioned. These pollsters pride themselves in being the first to spot emerging trends. The poll did mention that SF had 15% in Dublin and that this matched the scores of the LP and FG. I think it would be fair to assume that the SP are not going to sweep any bullet ridden partridges out with an iron broom come the Locals and Euros.

If the SP believe that the IT has distorted the true level of SP support in Dublin then they should contact the IT to find out how the they fared in the poll.

by Janus Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:17

It is really quite pathetic to see how every post seems to degenerate into an attack on one party or another, in this case, a variety of unsubstantiated and pointless accusations made against SF. No evidence provided, no names, no dates, no sources, nothing. Such accusations are not worth responding to.

But this post should be remembered for a classic, for the belief from an SP supporter that American multinational capitalists who seeming fund SF despite the fact that the party cannot spend money raised outside the US in the 26 Counties are going to open their wallets to stop Joe Higgins getting elected.

Joe's a nice chap, sound politics, a great man in a poor party, but not even he would have the arrogance or the self-delusion to think that. The SP haven't a hope of even being in the running for a European seat.

by John Meehan Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:48

Matt (of Sinn Féin) refers to

"....the internal regime of SP and way they treat their dissidents. There's a lot more there as well concerning some very interesting personal connections to criminals which are not for here"

He is entitled to discuss the Socialist Party's internal regime, and elaborate on its good and bad points.

It would be interesting to compare the internal régimes of, for example, Sinn Féin and the SP.

But "personal connections to criminals" (?) : this is heavy hitting.. Either Matt substantiates this startling allegation and he gives some details - or he drops it.

Here's a direct detailed question to Sinn Féin supporters (including Matt) :

Does the Sinn Féin party support the lifting of an amenity order on the Strawberry Beds in Dublin, so that new housing can be built in this area along the banks of the Liffey near Chapelizod?

What is the position of the Sinn Féin party's European Election candidate, Mary Lou McDonald, on this issue?

by matt Mon Feb 09, 2004 13:31

John, ask the people who are putting this about to tell you the basis of it. They are the same ones who were claiming that Mary Lou was on the FF NEC and that here husband is a land speculator.

As for the criminal friends of certain SP members, why don't you ask them. Kind of explains their silence on the drugs issue.

by Jonah Mon Feb 09, 2004 15:35

I have seen some sad things in my time. Nice being passed, Bertie Ahern grinning, every edition of the Voice, but John Meehan's post just about tops them all.

I want to understand this. You want SF supporters on Indymedia to waste their time looking into an amenity order (No detail given of what order, when it was lifted) being lifted because you can't be bothered looking into it yourself and respond to implied criticisms you make. I can only say that if there is a single Sinn Fein member out there with the time to do this, you're a lazy bastard and get to work.

You also want the party's EU election candidate to waste her time responding to vague, insubstantial charges that amount to nothing more than a fishing expedition in the sad and desperate attempt to blacken the Sinn Fein candidate.

John Meehan is the one making unsubstantiated allegations by asking questions bereft of detail. It is pathetic, it is sad, it is rampantly sectarian and thus fits well into the history of John Meehan.

For the record John, what is your stance on the recent decision by Clonakilty Urban District Council in regard to the access complaints made about the local cinema?

by matt Mon Feb 09, 2004 19:38

The silence of the lambs

by the pot Thu Feb 12, 2004 17:08

sinn feiners lecturing the socialist party on internal democracy. I've seen it all now! As far as I am aware the socialists SP or SWP have never killed someone for splitting with them or disagreeing like provisional/official/INLA etc etc etc fueds. not to mention those who disagree with them on the big question (how many thousand dead?). The socialist party may be very strict with the party line but they've never killed a dissident.

by Dissident Thu Feb 12, 2004 17:20

"The socialist party may be very strict with the party line but they've never killed a dissident."

Maybe not, but its not for want of trying they way they persecute them. Look at how John Throne was cut off without a penny in the US when he was ill. Thrown out by the CWI with no Health Insurance they refiused to cover his medical bills. In the US being without health cover can be a matter of life and death. Fortunately John Throne lived, no thanks to the CWI.

by Lefty Fri Feb 13, 2004 02:07

Interesting outline of her previous activities in the world of business