Shocking Atrocity by FARC in Colombia

by David Thu Sep 11, 2003 20:51

Then it really is a horrible act of depravity that I can't see any reason or excuse for.

by me myself and I Thu Sep 11, 2003 22:13

Indeed, it would be a terrible thing no matter who had done it. However, this was posted by joe ranting so maybe we should take another look at it:

"Authorities blamed rebels of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, for the attack"

You are relying on the word of "army Sgt. Luis Hernandez". That is a bit like someone in the six counties in 1970 relying on the word of Captain Nairac.

And according to this same "army Sgt. Luis Hernandez" they are holding "a suspect who allegedly led the horse into the plaza". But this person is only a suspect, and even if this suspect was proven, under a fair and reliable legal system (which they do not have in Colombia), to have done it, what evidence is there that this suspect has any connection to FARC?

No one would ever claim that FARC are a bunch of altar boys, but this looks to me like another straightforward piece of black propaganda from joe ranting.

by joe ranii Fri Sep 12, 2003 08:16

Truly there are none so blind as those who will not see, and indeed none so ignorant as those who will not learn.
I am clearly wasting my time responding to this person, but for the benefit of other readers I will once again point out that any information I post on Colombia is publicly available. It comes from sources such as Associated Press, BBC, Agence France Presse. If the poster thinks that these news agencies are involved in a conspiracy with the Govt of Colombia then his/her condition is more serious than mere stupidity.
In an ideal world, the penalty for thoughtless postings such as that one would be a couple of weeks holiday in the jungle, as a "guest" of the FARC or its kindred murder gangs. I suspect that such an experience would initiate a steep learning curve, even for this poster. Unfortunately the reality is that his/her smug ignorance goes unchallenged save for people like me.

by kokomero Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:25

was correct in pointing out that in a democracy people are innocent until proven guilty.

It is also clear from the original post that FARC have not claimed responsibility and the "source" is an NCO. If his superiors believed that it was indeed the FARC why didn't they make a statement?

As for the general attempt to discredit the FARC, they learned everything they know about assassination and murder from the government and the right-wing death squads so at worst they are no worse than the government and its proxies.

Your tone in terms of trying (unsuccessfully) to shout down alternative views or claiming that nobody is entitled to post on Colombia unless they've lived there for 20 years (or whatever) is patronising in the extreme and/or a crude attempt to stifle debate (your right-wing reactionary friends have schooled you well in their methods).

In fact it reminds me of the language used by the Israelis who are in fact great supporters of many of the right-wing regiemes in South America.

by Terry Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:05

I would say this is an undercover army/death-squad operation to kill peasants and then blame it on FARC, since FARC hardly get their support from the better well off people.

There are plenty of precedents for this throughout recent history.

In Algeria, there have been continuous reports and eye-witness accounts that elements of the Algerian intelligence and special forces have carried out attrocities blamed on radical fundamentalist muslims. In that war, well over 100,000 have already died. In these reports, witnesses tell of the army sealing off certain areas, which were later, within a few hours or less, the scenes of massacres by so-called muslims. This doesn't mean that all killings were solely by the army, but the indications are, that they have many operatives amongst them, and have their own death squads and the regime has greatly benefitted from the prolonging of the conflict. A relevant fact is that Algeria has the 5th largest reserves of natural gas in the world. Most of the gas supplied to Spain and other southern European countries comes from there.

There's just too many parallels with the situation in Colombia. On the energy side, Colombia produces 800,000 barrels of oil per day and an very important source of imported oil for the USA. The three main oil companies 'owning' the oil in Colombia are Total (French), BP (British) and Occidental (USA). Now isn't that very coincidental that this news story was reported by Associated Press (USA), BBC (British) and Agence France Presse (France).

This amongst other things is a very important fact and explains a lot.

In case Joe, or anyone else who consistently tells us about the killings by FARC but always fails to tell us about the other 90% of deaths caused in Colombia by the US supported Army and Right-Wing Death squads, the discussion here does not mean me nor anyone else support the death or injury of anyone, whether it be FARC or otherwise. But then that is the accusation levelled at you, when you try to establish the facts and context of the situation.

by media watcher Fri Sep 12, 2003 13:54

I am sure even Joe the ranter will remember the Collar Bomb that was place around the neck of a poor woman in Colombia. Her head was blown off and the officer trying to defuse it was also killed. Within minutes General Tapias said it was the FARC and they had a message left on the woman's answering machine by the FARC threatening her. It turns out there was no tape and the woman didn't even have a phone. It also turns out that they eventually arrested the common criminals that were behind it. It was not the FARC in the end and the device was quite crude.

As for AP. Reuters etc, they have a distinct tendency to quote military sources and use them as their sole source.

The FARC may well have done this as they certainly did the mortar bombing of the Bojaya Church. But Joe Ranter, what is your point? Yes the FARC are not exactly the nicest show in town, but other postings and replies by you seem to have the express purpose of making links between trade unionists etc and the FARC. I have yet to see you put a posting about your friend Carlos Castaño the leader of the Colombia's death squads known as the AUC. The attempts to refer to the guerrillas as death squads is crude and is designed to confuse any debate.

by editor of the Sunday Preview/Review/View the Sunday Papers. Fri Sep 12, 2003 14:04

I have briefly checked your record in the filing cabinet where we keep all the secrets and forgotten stuff, and notice that this is your 20th article on this theme since March 5th.

Your average posting on this theme is within every ten days, which means you never leave the newswire desktop.

Your style is consistent.

I am prepared to offer you a job with the Rival Sunday Review/Preview/View the Sunday Papers, that is if you are not already working for one of our many rivals.

Just some things though will help speed up the paperwork,
1. do you extend your thoughts in español to the readers of castillian sites?
2. do you live in Columbia or any other country of south america?
3. do you have close relatives in Columbia or any other country of south america?
4. do you use three false names or just one?
5. How's the overdraft?
6. once you get inside the heads of other people do you Joe Ranii find it harder to notice the borg in yours?
7. do you know who you're in the file with?
8. have you ever heard the expression
"Ní féidir an dubh a chur ina gheal ach seal.
=You can only deny the truth for a while".

by formerly homeless Fri Sep 12, 2003 15:01

Dear formerly supportive Editor,
I've completed an interesting course in the spanish language and am writing a review on this really interesting book on human rights in Columbia.
Apparantly over 80 collectives and organisations have come together to write it and promote it.
Great stuff I'll think you agree to see that sort of co-operation. But Mr URibe the president of Columbia doesn't like it.

From the interpress news agency
(a net for professionals)
http://www.ipsnoticias.net/interna.asp?idnews=23464

by puzzled Fri Sep 12, 2003 17:12

why doesn't President Uribe not like the Human Rights report which has brought together over 80 non governmental, national and international groupings to write on columbia?

by rubix Fri Sep 12, 2003 17:13

Many people believe that one of the sources of conflict in the Columbian civil war is the lack of regard for human rights on all sides.

by confused Fri Sep 12, 2003 17:14

so there are many sides to the puzzling lack of human rights and continuing civil war in Columbia?
Does that mean it's not just FARC?

by ivy league Fri Sep 12, 2003 17:16

The USA have been involved in Columbia oh for a long long time. They like Uribe. But he isn't really sure if he likes them all the time, especially at "election time".

by poorly informed Fri Sep 12, 2003 17:17

Oh dear, we need people that can report on all the atrocities don't we?

by Terry Fri Sep 12, 2003 17:26

There is a huge amount of background material available online at Colombia Watch which is hosted on the ZNet / ZMag site.

Nearly everything is covered there and it is an excellent resource including the latest information.

Go to the site in the related link.

by informedly poor Fri Sep 12, 2003 19:34

and just to think less than twenty people have logged on to this page since it was posted, poor Mr Joe Ranii, it isn't really worth his effort is it?
oh and terry:
http://www.tournigan.com/s/NewsReleases.asp?ReportID=65764&_Title=Tournigan-Announces-Start-of-Drilling-at-Curraghinalt-Gold-Project-N.-Irela...

by informing the rich Fri Sep 12, 2003 19:47

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/cyberwar-02h.html
bit old but still true.

by Maubere Mon Sep 15, 2003 15:58

Joe , just a few questions

why do you highlight crimes (real and imagined) committed by FARC but refuse to say anything about crimes committed by drug dealing terrorists in the Colombian Army and their friends the AUC (known as the "6th Division" in Colombia due to their ties to the regular army, which has 5 divisions),

About 40,000 people have been killed in Colombia in the past 10 years, the Army/AUC have killed at least 30,000 of these, why are you silent about these deaths and the US support for terrorists (which according to Caesar Bush logic would make the US a terrorist State just like Syria, Iran etc