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Washington steps up drive to overthrow Syrian regime

category international | anti-war | other press author Tuesday July 24, 2012 13:17author by pat c Report this post to the editors

A new coalition of thw willing is being prepared by the US to wage war on Syria. That includes the EU as a whole, the EU have imposed sanctions on Syria and sanctions are war by another means. Full text at link.

Following its failure to ram through a resolution against syria at the united nations security council last week, the administration of barack obama has intensified its preparations to gather a “coalition of the willing” to oust the government of syria and install a us client regime.
The resolution would have imposed new sanctions against damascus under chapter 7 of the un charter, which authorizes the use of military force. The last such resolution by the council was used by the us and nato to justify their war for regime-change in libya.

bashar.jpg

The US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, condemned Moscow and Beijing for vetoing the anti-Syrian resolution and declared that Washington would “work with a diverse range of partners outside the Security Council” to undermine the regime of President Bashar al-Assad.

These partners include Britain and France, the former colonial powers in the region, and the Sunni monarchies of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which have provided hundreds of millions of dollars in arms and financial support to the Islamist-dominated Syrian opposition militias.

Related Link: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/jul2012/syri-j23.shtml
author by pat cpublication date Tue Jul 24, 2012 13:27Report this post to the editors

The Syrian government on Tuesday accused Western media of distorting Damascus’ statement on chemical and biological weapons. The Foreign Ministry's spokesman Jihad Makdissi said his Monday’s statement was “only a response to false allegations on WMD and explanation of guidelines of defensive policy.” The goal of the statement was “not to declare but rather to respond to a methodical media campaign targeting Syria to prepare world public opinion for the possibility of military intervention under the false premise of weapons of mass destruction,” he said. On Monday, the spokesman warned Syria would use the weapons in case of external aggression.

Related Link: http://www.rt.com/news/line/2012-07-24/#id34725
author by pat cpublication date Tue Jul 24, 2012 13:32Report this post to the editors

Full text at link.

Russian President Putin has warned that if the Assad government is overthrown, the ensuing civil war in Syria may see no end. Speaking after a meeting with Italian PM Monti, Putin said thatt in the case if the Syrian authorities are displaced, “they will simply swap places with the current opposition and this will cause a civil war that would go on for no one knows how long.”

Putin also called on the conflicting parties to reach a compromise, saying this is the only path which ensures the country has a future. “The incumbent Syrian authorities as well as the so- called armed opposition must find strength to organize the talks and find a mutually acceptable compromise for the country’s future,” Putin told reporters.


“We believe that the following should be the course of action: halting the violence, conducting negotiations, searching for a solution, laying down a constitutional basis for the future society, and only then introducing structural changes, not vice versa. Doing things the other way around would only cause chaos,” Putin continued.

Related Link: http://rt.com/politics/putin-nonstop-civil-assad-869/
author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Tue Jul 24, 2012 14:12Report this post to the editors

To do that you'd have to get Mossad, MI6, al CIAda and the Saudis back in their cages...

The Iraquification of the region will continue..disrupt, contain, extract..the resource wars of the 21st century are running to schedule..a lot done..but its a target rich environment.

PNAC reich.

author by acktewallypublication date Tue Jul 24, 2012 16:14Report this post to the editors

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/syria-updat....html

“Operation Damascus Volcano” Followed Weeks of Warnings of Impending NATO Psy-Op:
Wider UNSC dissension,
Turkish offensive against its own "rebels,"
and Iraq's rejection of latest "Arab League" statement before massive Al Qaeda attacks.

author by Elricpublication date Wed Jul 25, 2012 00:29Report this post to the editors

Great illustration added to main story. I've posted it on p.ie.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Wed Jul 25, 2012 08:08Report this post to the editors

TOTALITARIANISM (supported by United States President Obama):

"Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible." (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism )

CONSTITUTIONAL (supported by Russian President Putin):

"Constitutionalism is descriptive of a complicated concept, deeply imbedded in historical experience, which subjects the officials who exercise governmental powers to the limitations of a higher law. Constitutionalism proclaims the desirability of the rule of law as opposed to rule by the arbitrary judgment or mere fiat of public officials…. Throughout the literature dealing with modern public law and the foundations of statecraft the central element of the concept of constitutionalism is that in political society government officials are not free to do anything they please in any manner they choose; they are bound to observe both the limitations on power and the procedures which are set out in the supreme, constitutional law of the community. It may therefore be said that the touchstone of constitutionalism is the concept of limited government under a higher law." (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionalism )

2012 might be the year when this age-old contest/conflict of humanity finally gets decided: for once and for all?

Assuming of course that the warmongering psychopaths don't get us all blown to smithereens in a thermonuclear WW3 conflict, before the year is out?

Related Link:
http://tinyurl.com/c35dwze

author by pat cpublication date Wed Jul 25, 2012 18:56Report this post to the editors

Full text at link.

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov speaks to journalists in Saint Petersburg, late. (AFP Photo / Olga Maltseva)

Washington’s reaction to blasts in Damascus is a downright justification of terrorism, slams Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. US State Department announced that terror acts in Syria are not surprising in light of the Assad regime’s actions.

“This is direct endorsement of terrorism. How are we supposed to understand that?” Sergey Lavrov shared his astonishment at a press conference in Moscow. “This is a sinister position, I cannot find words to express our attitude towards that.”

Lavrov also expressed his surprise that the UN Security Council refused to condemn acts of terror in Syria. The US permanent representative to the UN Susan Rice has stated that terror acts in Damascus contribute to speeding up the adoption of a resolution on Syria according to the Chapter 7 of the UN Statute, which implies harsh sanctions, including resorting to force.

“In other words this means ‘We are going to support such acts of terrorism until the UNSC does what we want’,” Lavrov commented on the US representative's actions.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said recently that there should be closer work with opposition in Syria as it captures more and more territories to prepare new actions of resistance to the government in Damascus.

Lavrov noted that there were reports that the opposition has taken control over border posts on the Iraqi and Turkish border with Syria and reportedly, there were cases of looting of Turkish property. According to some sources it was not Free Syrian Army militants that captured those posts, but by groups linked to Al-Qaeda, and Russian diplomats are verifying this information.

“If such actions of taking territories by terrorists are supported by our partners, we would like to ask them what their position on Syria is. What do they want to achieve in this country?” Russian FM demanded.

Related Link: http://www.rt.com/news/us-position-syria-terror-lavrov-006/
author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Wed Jul 25, 2012 19:13Report this post to the editors

seems they're determined to steamroll on

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=32019

author by the shadow - nonepublication date Wed Jul 25, 2012 20:32Report this post to the editors

Just so that we are clear. Predident/Dictator Assad, who Govt claims to have chemical weapons ,but will only use them against foreigners, is the good guy in this solely because he is opposed by the US.

Putin who stole his most recent election has his govertments statements supporting Assad printed in full on Indymedia with no critique of any kind. (By the way I actively opposed the Iraq Oil War of the US- so I am not blindly supporting the US on this issue.)

I was hoping that issues like this would be discussed openly on this site but your editorial collective seems to censor comments which dont conform to the group think that permeates this site.

Now more than ever we need too discuss openly issues that affect us be they local, national or global.
Otherwise this site will become a place where the few talk among themselves.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Wed Jul 25, 2012 21:50Report this post to the editors

..in response to the above..I don't think anyone is painting a halo on Vlad, or Assad for that matter.

If you opposed the Iraq invasion I'm not going to assume you believed Saddam was a boy scout.

Neither Putin or Assad is initiating the ongoing and escalating destruction in the region. Nor am I simplisticaly anti-American, any more than I am anti-Semitic because I oppose Israeli policies.

Its a matter of relative threats, not selective ethics or prejudgement. And its about the hypocrisy of Washington with its trail of depleted Uranium and support for Saudi fundamentalism(driving much of the violence) while destabilising multi-cultural, multi-ethnic and multi-faith balances to assert its global imperial PNAC.

I hope that helps the ocular perspective.

author by leftypublication date Thu Jul 26, 2012 02:43Report this post to the editors

Shadow"Just so that we are clear. President/Dictator Assad, who Govt claims to have chemical weapons ,but will only use them against foreigners, is the good guy in this solely because he is opposed by the US."

Big whoop. Everyone has chemical weapons (often supplied by US!). US and Israel have these plus nuclear weapons plus biological weapons too. US has 7500 nukes on hair trigger. Israel has 200-300 nukes. Should the rest of the world invade them and destabilise them?? See how ridiculous this cognitive dissonance is??

And as for dictator, well is Assad conducting murderous wars on three+ fronts and meeting every tuesday to decide who should be assassinated by drones, including his own citizens. Not to mention pepper spraying and arresting democratic protesters and hosting black prisons to disappear and torture his enemies??

And yes, standing up to the US takes guts. They have deliberately put weapons jihadists and mercenaries and special forces into his soverign country to try to destabilise it and plunge it into a bloody civil war. Assad is a strong man but in this case relatively speaking, he is the good guy yes.

Shadow"Putin who stole his most recent election "

Usual crap about Putin. Where is your Proof? There were actually webcams in most polling booths and the election was fair by any standards. Putin is actually very popular in Russia. Contrast that with the current popularity of US president Obama
And regarding fair elections......*cough* florida *cough*

Shadow"has his goverments statements supporting Assad printed in full on Indymedia with no critique of any kind."

Nobody likes Assad. But clearly he is the underdog here. Most media are in lockstep condemning Assad in spite of lots of evidence that the whole thing is orchestrated by US and vassal states. Indymedia is laudably trying to present the alternative viewpoint since nobody else in the MSM seems to be. I think that's called balance. Are you suggesting Indymedia should just parrot the blatant lies of fox news, CNN and RTE regarding Syria?? Should we too work as a free mouthpiece for imperialism??

Shadow"(By the way I actively opposed the Iraq Oil War of the US- so I am not blindly supporting the US on this issue.)"

Yeah right!! ;-)

Shadow"I was hoping that issues like this would be discussed openly on this site but your editorial collective seems to censor comments which dont conform to the group think that permeates this site."

And allowing imperialist propaganda yet another outlet for it's blatant lies on Syria is "open discussion" how??
It's evident that the real groupthink is in the MSM. Indymedia is an island of truth in comparison!!

Shadow"Now more than ever we need too discuss openly issues that affect us be they local, national or global."

Yes. And an important part of that is that places exist that block out the deluge of blatant propaganda somewhat in order to make a space where real discussion can occur.

Shadow"Otherwise this site will become a place where the few talk among themselves."

Translation: if you don't allow the propaganda I want to push on your site then, haha gotcha, you aren't for free speech and you have no "raison d'etre" and no-one will come here.

Au contraire, an important aspect of free speech is that alternative viewpoints have somewhere they can be expressed and are encouraged. However, all you get on most of the MSM is the same line of propaganda, (and I don't see you complaining to them that they don't allow the viewpoints expressed here do I??.Funny that!! ;-)

Indymedia does not need to repeat the same crap as the MSM to be pro free speech. If you want propaganda and the party line then go to RTE. If you want to see it from another angle, come to indymedia. Look at both then make your mind up. Thats truly free speech.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Thu Jul 26, 2012 07:33Report this post to the editors

"There is no demand in the Annan Plan for Bashar al-Assad to step down before any ceasefire, contrary to what Hillary Clinton repeats after insisting the US also backs the Annan Plan. The Annan Plan calls for a diplomatic solution."

NOTE WELL: "The US clearly does NOT (emphasis is mine) want a diplomatic solution. It wants regime change and evidently widening war across the Shi’ite-Sunni divide of the Muslim world." THIS IS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER?

"Because of the considerable media distortions it’s useful to read the actual text of the six-point Annan plan:

(1) commit to work with the Envoy in an inclusive Syrian-led political process to address the legitimate aspirations and concerns of the Syrian people, and, to this end, commit to appoint an empowered interlocutor when invited to do so by the Envoy;

(2) commit to stop the fighting and achieve urgently an effective United Nations supervised cessation of armed violence in all its forms by all parties to protect civilians and stabilise the country.

To this end, the Syrian government should immediately cease troop movements towards, and end the use of heavy weapons in, population centres, and begin pullback of military concentrations in and around population centres.

As these actions are being taken on the ground, the Syrian government should work with the Envoy to bring about a sustained cessation of armed violence in all its forms by all parties with an effective United Nations supervision mechanism.

Similar commitments would be sought by the Envoy from the opposition and all relevant elements to stop the fighting and work with him to bring about a sustained cessation of armed violence in all its forms by all parties with an effective United Nations supervision mechanism;

(3) ensure timely provision of humanitarian assistance to all areas affected by the fighting, and to this end, as immediate steps, to accept and implement a daily two hour humanitarian pause and to coordinate exact time and modalities of the daily pause through an efficient mechanism, including at local level;

(4) intensify the pace and scale of release of arbitrarily detained persons, including especially vulnerable categories of persons, and persons involved in peaceful political activities, provide without delay through appropriate channels a list of all places in which such persons are being detained, immediately begin organizing access to such locations and through appropriate channels respond promptly to all written requests for information, access or release regarding such persons;

(5) ensure freedom of movement throughout the country for journalists and a non-discriminatory visa policy for them;

(6) respect freedom of association and the right to demonstrate peacefully as legally guaranteed."

The above excerpts have come from: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=32019

Related Link:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/102017?comment_limit=0&...90758

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sat Jul 28, 2012 16:03Report this post to the editors

..civil wars..it might be on such a multinational scale.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=32079

author by Casual Observer.publication date Sat Jul 28, 2012 17:25Report this post to the editors

Interestting how many so called left wingers support murderous thugs.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sat Jul 28, 2012 21:25Report this post to the editors

Would that be the murderous thugs in al CIAda and MI6 directing ops on the ground in this 'civil war'?

Or the drone-driving ones in Pentagonia Central?

author by free_dummypublication date Sun Jul 29, 2012 02:16Report this post to the editors

"Putin who stole his most recent election has his governments statements supporting Assad printed in full on Indymedia with no critique of any kind. "

as opposed to these guys :

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/07/24/12925327-j...?lite

having their imperialist statements printed in full on Indymedia with no critique of any kind??

Apparently republicans are now using VoterID as a means (poll tax) to reduce votes among the poor and black populations who would vote democrat.

How free and fair is that??

Also, the law in 2011 that allows corporations to fund electoral candidates as much as they like and the ruling that "money represents free speech" have essentially ruled out the notion of free and fair elections in the US. It's now just a blatant corporate / financial kleptocracy with very little attempt at even hiding the process anymore.

In practice, the candidate with the most funding and who manages not to make a COMPLETE dick of himself/herself during the election has a pretty good chance of becoming president.

There are no longer meaningful elections in the US. Anyone who believes there are has their head up their ass. The same private and corporate interests fund both candidates and after election, no matter who wins, it's business / war as usual.

By comparison, Russia is a bastion of free speech and fair electoral procedures, with webcams installed in most of the polling booths. The fact is, Putin is still wildly popular in Russia and that is why he was elected. He, (unlike current US republicans in Pennsylvania), had absolutely no need to try to steal an election he was virtually a sure thing in. That statement makes absolutely no sense at all.

It's just that the policy wonks in the US really hate Putin because he stands up to and doesn't take any more shit from them and he is now very much his own man and a very capable one too. They would much prefer a drunken idiot puppet of western imperialism like yeltsin, or a crooked smiling idiot like ...oh say ..Mitt "twit" Romney

Caption: watch and learn, free dummies!! ;-)


author by Felix Quigley - 4internationalpublication date Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:09Report this post to the editors

It is clear that Russia is waging a defensive struggle, as is China, against US and EU Imperialisms.

The US are clearly along with the British and others interfering with the sovereigny of another country. This is done under the cloak of "Responsibility to Protect", a new fascist concept, copied straight from Hitler's Nazis.

The issue of Iran and Hizbullah are totally separate issues, in this case, where the US Imperialists, Establishment, (choose your term) are gearing up for war, urged on by the deepening gloom in the world capitalist crisis

These issues of Libya, Egypt and now Syria have taught to all of us who love Israel and who defend the Jews that the present leadership connected with the Jews, on a broad scale, are incapable of leading in a principled fashion in this period of growing Fascism, no more than Judaic leaders could defend the Jews against the Fascism of Hitler, Mussolini and Franco.

The first task in all of these situations is for Israel to issue a statement saying, and repeating this a thousand times, that it respects the sovereignty of every other country, and since Syria is in the eye of the storm, Israel and Jews must respcet the sovereignty of Syria.

On a matter of principle Israe a nd Israelis must oppose the interventions of the US in Syria, interventions aimed at overthrowing Assad and installing in power the Muslim Brotherhood as they did in Egypt and Libya.

Now also Assad happens to be a secular leaning leader.

This is as everybody knows why the Syrian Christians are part of the large section of the population of Syria which has continued to defend Assad.

This feeling for the secular stands in total conflict with the feeling for Sharia. Sharia is Fascism, a modern form of Fascism, because it is being integrated into the Fascism of the US Governments, and of the EU Governments, and the EU Bureaucracy as a whole.

It beggars belief that any Jew living today, or any Israeli, or Israel supporter, would not defend Assad IN THESE CONDITIONS.

Does this make Israel a friend of Assad or vice versa? Anybody who thinks like this really need to go to political primary school.

Alliances are made and positions of political principle are taken in situations of concrete events. Leon Trotsky defended Haile Selassie against Mussolini and the Nazis. Did this make Trotsky a political defender of the despotism of Selassie?

Israel has had the means to destroy the plutonium enrichment of Iran years ago. It did not and allowed these Fascists to taunt Israel and Jews through its Holocaust Denial.

The same with Hamas and Hizbullah. We all know that Israeli leaders were given the green light by Bush to destroy these Antisemites once and for all and Israel politically speaking could not do that or take the decision to fight to the end.

Is this displacement, over Syria, hiding the constant betrayals of the Jews, their own people. I am certain so.

At the very centre of these issues is the absolute need for Israe land for Jews everywhere to break free from the shackles of the US and EU establishment, especially the US Establishment. Jews and Israel have a complete right to defend themselves against the Iranian Plutonium Enrichment programme, given the level of Antisemitic Nazi type statements coming from Iran, calling Israel a cancer etc.

What is most disgusting int he Irish Left is the level of Antisemitic Hatred of Israel.

Related Link: http://www.4international.me
author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:57Report this post to the editors

..is quite a curate's egg...

You throw words like fascism around indiscriminately, and seem confused regarding the current Israeli leadership and the general justification of the zionist misconceived project..a result, I think, of your special pleading for Jews as a people seperated from the rest of humanity, a division I feel is central to the ball of contradictions currently unravelling in the region.

I think you'll find the '..shackles of the US and EU..' are mutual bonds...witness the current contention between Obambi and Romney for AIPAC largesse in the pending change of White House incumbent.

You could start by considering the appropriateness of the label 'fascist' to the Israeli regime...
Corporate capitalist, check;
Militarist expansionary, check;
Population propagandised incessantly with uber-national fears of generalised paranoid victimisation, check(though not unfounded historically if much self-created);
Liable to collective fantasised racial superiority-complex, check.
Machiavellian utilitarian attitiude to anything resembling objective truth other than its manufactured 'facts on the ground', check.
Impervious to international law or any constraints on its behaviour, within or beyond its borders, check.
Iterated false-flag wet-op terror operations without constraint, including document forgery and assassination of peace and aid activists;check.

Have I neglected anything?Besides the nuclear arsenal(unmonitored, while it lectures IAEA-compliant Iran from the self-appropriated moral high-ground).

The problem is bigger than Bibi and Likud. Smell the coffee. Balfour's egg is well addled.

author by Felix Quigley - 4internationalpublication date Sun Jul 29, 2012 16:10Report this post to the editors

It is interesting. If Israel is even mentioned then people lose their sense. Read again what you wrote above Diablos. There is nothing in what you wrote that deals with the subject under discussion, Syria, and more broadly how the US and Europe are promoting the Muslim Brotherhood and Sharia

Libya...Egypt...Tunisia...Ivory Coast...Mali...Yemen and a dozen others

In all of these the Muslim Brotherhood are in power and they have been placed there by the West, especially by these Western Governments, and especially note the role of the Media, like the BBC which was the cheerleader and even organizer for the counter revolution (they were NEVER revolutions)

Related Link: http://www.4international.me
author by Felix Quigley - 4internationalpublication date Sun Jul 29, 2012 16:23Report this post to the editors

You throw words like fascism around indiscriminately, and seem confused regarding the current Israeli leadership and the general justification of the zionist misconceived project..a result, I think, of your special pleading for Jews as a people seperated from the rest of humanity, a division I feel is central to the ball of contradictions currently unravelling in the region.

It was the position of Leon Trotsky that socialism will provide for the Jews a place on earth where they can practice their ancient religion and traditions and be unmolested by Antisemitism.

Also Trotsky defined Fascism very precisely

I think you'll find the '..shackles of the US and EU..' are mutual bonds...witness the current contention between Obambi and Romney for AIPAC largesse in the pending change of White House incumbent.

AIPAC represents not the Jews but US Imperialists. They are Imperialists...witness their position on Assad

You could start by considering the appropriateness of the label 'fascist' to the Israeli regime...
Corporate capitalist, check;
Militarist expansionary, check;
Population propagandised incessantly with uber-national fears of generalised paranoid victimisation, check(though not unfounded historically if much self-created);
Liable to collective fantasised racial superiority-complex, check.
Machiavellian utilitarian attitiude to anything resembling objective truth other than its manufactured 'facts on the ground', check.
Impervious to international law or any constraints on its behaviour, within or beyond its borders, check.
Iterated false-flag wet-op terror operations without constraint, including document forgery and assassination of peace and aid activists;check.

If you had had the Holocaust done to your people (Are you Irish?) then you too would be very paranoid

Have I neglected anything?Besides the nuclear arsenal(unmonitored, while it lectures IAEA-compliant Iran from the self-appropriated moral high-ground).

There is a difference. The Left used to call these types as in Iran as being CLERICAL FASCIST

Related Link: http://www.4international.me
author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:38Report this post to the editors

I think I have had a little more access to the unrolling of the history of fascism, and its various derivatives, than he did.

I suggest you reflect a little more before you erect him as your Polaris of authority. He is as infallible as any pope. And if I had a euro for every Trotskyist internal argument I've witnessed I'd be a capitalist meself by now.

The source of the Sharia fundamentalism is the Wahabi sect, embedded in Saudi culture for several centuries. Saudi and Israel are both client/allies of the PNAC agenda driving the reconfiguration of the region, and the globe, into a balkanised series of dependent satraps under nominally 'democratic' regimes.

Israel, at least from the time of Balfour(if not in the designs of such sponsors as the Rotschilds), has been an element of this imperial grand design.
The Jewish refugees refused entry to Britain and the US, post the Holocaust, were used as a spearhead to displace the rightful Palestinian owners of the land; as surely as the refugees from European imperialism in Ireland and other places were used to displace Native Americans and Aboriginal peoples from other colonies(contrary to your singularising depiction, holocausts(plural) have been a feature of human expansionary history). Nor is anti-semitism the sole form of pre-human racisms.

That you set such store on the religion of the Jewish people, and their biblical claims, is hardly an advertisement for neutral objectivity.

Clerical fascist would seem an appropriate designation for a state founded on right-wing religious claims to the territory and property of its indiginous residents, and expanding incrementally since its foundation by disposssesion for lebensraum at the expense of its eastern neighbours under a heavily propagandised and terrorised population.

And if religious claims to the right to land for practise of same are to be the arbiter of legitimacy...then I'll claim the planet as my playground for the practise of worship of the great god Bart, made incarnate in the cartoon form and handed down to my church through the oracular medium of the holy ghost of television.
Try your own logic.

author by Felix Quigley - 4internationalpublication date Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:34Report this post to the editors

I am going to refuse to be diverted. The issue we discuss is
Syria, not the Palestinian and Jewish issue

But in response to the above there is one point which is especially pertinent.

You write:

And if religious claims to the right to land for practise of same are to be the arbiter of legitimacy...then I'll claim the planet as my playground for the practise of worship of the great god Bart, made incarnate in the cartoon form and handed down to my church through the oracular medium of the holy ghost of television.
Try your own logic

In this paragraph you make a mockery not just of religion but especially of those who practice religion. I will have no part of that and as I hope and expect that a future Trotskyist Party in Ireland will have no part in the mocking of those who are religious.

Religious views are sincerely held and this indeed has a particular bearing on the situation in Syria where the very ancient Syrian Christian minority do fear the Muslim Brotherhood, the danger of Sharia to their freedom, that is freedom to practice religion (while you mock)

That persecution is essentially what mrs Clinton lines up with.

There has been zero emphasis on this, and a conscious hiding of this reality, that the Syrian Christians are supportive of Assad, because Assad leans towards secularism, thus giving some space for religious minorities to pursue their ancient religion and customs.

That is a very big issue in all of these threatened countries, threatened by Sharia, and Sharia is threatened by both Sunni and Shia Islam.

We Trotskyists will argue for science, and will fight for our views of dialectical materialism but we will oppose all persecution of religious folk.

author by opus diablos - the regressive hypocrite partypublication date Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:03Report this post to the editors

You stick to your Trotskyist religion...but don't go persecuting us Bartists.

And we hold that the Syrian situation is related to the regional and global geopolitics and resource wars of resurgent WASP/Zionist imperialism...which uses distorted versions of their sectarian cults in cynical fashion to pursue their temporal ends. As the Vatican does with its Machiavellian use of biblical precepts to bless its predations across the globe in pursuit of the original Roman totalitarian imperial agenda by other means.

If you know ANYTHING about Judaism you will know that most Jews opposed the Zionist program from the outset as a perversion of their esoteric beliefs into a temporal/material travesty.
And that many still do, but that a Leninist cadre has imposed a putsch on their co-religionists for other than religious ends.

Make up one of your minds, Felix...its either science as a foundation for seeking understanding by examination and weighing of evidence in an open-minded way..or the religious methodology of plucking inspiration from thin air and investing credence in groundless suppositions. The latter is more suited to the arts of poetry, music and free expressionist painting. Which all have their place in the great scheme of human endeavour, but are hardly suited to historical or political analysis; which I believe is the object of the current exercise.

author by W. Finnertypublication date Mon Jul 30, 2012 16:32Report this post to the editors

"Chossudovsky asserts that the protestors against the government regime are covertly supported by western intelligence and are the cause of the unrest in Syria. He claims the western media shows bias in their reporting by not showing the evidence of massive support for Assad shown in a rally on March 29, 2011 in Damascus and claims that there are Assad forces that are also being killed, which he says is also ignored." (From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky)

"The US has embarked on a military adventure, 'a long war', which threatens the future of humanity. US-NATO weapons of mass destruction are portrayed as instruments of peace. Mini-nukes are said to be 'harmless to the surrounding civilian population'. Pre-emptive nuclear war is portrayed as a 'humanitarian undertaking'."

"Central to an understanding of war, is the media campaign which grants it legitimacy in the eyes of public opinion. A good versus evil dichotomy prevails. The perpetrators of war are presented as the victims. Public opinion is misled."

The two excerpts immediately above relate to a book titled "Towards a World War III Scenario: The Dangers of Nuclear War" by Dr Michel Chossudovsky, Professor of Economics (Emeritus) at the University of Ottawa.

Statement on the book by Francis A. Boyle, Professor of International Law, University of Illinois College of Law:

“Professor Chossudovsky’s hard-hitting and compelling book explains why and how we must immediately undertake a concerted and committed campaign to head off this impending cataclysmic demise of the human race and planet earth. This book is required reading for everyone in the peace movement around the world.”

Related Link:
http://www.humanrightsireland.com/MayoNews/30July2012/E...l.htm
(Containing evidence of "public servants" (so called) and "main stream media operators" who are "aiding and abetting government crime with impunity".)

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