Upcoming Events

National | Environment

no events match your query!

User Preferences

  • Language - en | ga
  • text size >>
  • make this your indymedia front page make this your indymedia front page

Blog Feeds

Irish Left Review
Joined up thinking for the Irish Left

offsite link New Books Worth Reading Mon Sep 19, 2016 23:25 | Seán Sheehan

offsite link 13 Billion ? Lucky for some? Mon Sep 05, 2016 13:04 | Tony Phillips

offsite link Rebuilding Ireland: Long on Promise, Short on Detail Mon Aug 29, 2016 22:20 | Eoin O'Mahony

offsite link Brexit and Other Issues: Comments on the Current Situation Mon Aug 29, 2016 21:52 | Brendan Young

offsite link Bin Charges: From Private Circus to Public Service Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:38 | Michael Taft

Irish Left Review >>

Cedar Lounge
For lefties too stubborn to quit

offsite link Glad It?s All Over ? but it?s not, is it? 21:53 Sat May 26, 2018 | WorldbyStorm

offsite link Referendum Count Day 09:23 Sat May 26, 2018 | WorldbyStorm

offsite link This Weekend I?ll Mostly Be Listening to? Yes 07:18 Sat May 26, 2018 | irishelectionliterature

offsite link Exit Poll 2 ? Another landslide for Yes 23:27 Fri May 25, 2018 | WorldbyStorm

offsite link Exit Poll -Landslide for Yes 22:16 Fri May 25, 2018 | irishelectionliterature

Cedar Lounge >>

Dublin Opinion
Life should be full of strangeness, like a rich painting

offsite link Some Thoughts on the Brexit Joint Report 11:50 Sat Dec 09, 2017

offsite link IRISH COMMONWEALTH: TRADE UNIONS AND CIVIL SOCIETY IN THE 21ST CENTURY 14:06 Sat Nov 18, 2017

offsite link Notes for a Book on Money and the Irish State - The Marshall Aid Program 15:10 Sat Apr 02, 2016

offsite link The Financial Crisis:What Have We Learnt? 19:58 Sat Aug 29, 2015

offsite link Money in 35,000 Words or Less 21:34 Sat Aug 22, 2015

Dublin Opinion >>

NAMA Wine Lake

offsite link Farewell from NWL Sun May 19, 2013 14:00 | namawinelake

offsite link Happy 70th Birthday, Michael Sun May 19, 2013 14:00 | namawinelake

offsite link Of the Week? Sat May 18, 2013 00:02 | namawinelake

offsite link Noonan denies IBRC legal fees loan approval to Paddy McKillen was in breach of E... Fri May 17, 2013 14:23 | namawinelake

offsite link Gayle Killilea Dunne asks to be added as notice party in Sean Dunne?s bankruptcy Fri May 17, 2013 12:30 | namawinelake

NAMA Wine Lake >>

Wind Farms in Ireland, the latest scam?

category national | environment | news report author Friday January 21, 2011 08:22author by Brian Nugent Report this post to the editors

This story is just attempting to highlight a very important and shocking interview on the bad economics and science behind wind farms in Ireland.

Val Martin from Kingscourt in Co. Cavan has just given a shocking radio interview on windfarms that is surely worthy of some debate on this site and elsewhere in the national media. (He was interviewed here: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/youngdan/2011/01/20/wind-e...artin .) David Bellamy, the well known environmentalist, says that 'wind power is a swindle' (1) and if you listen to the radio interview you might end up agreeing! And this is not an unimportant fact right now in Ireland because the government here have advanced plans to spend as much as 20 billion euro destroying the Irish countryside with these monstrosities, paid for via artificially increased ESB bills to pay the huge subsidies to the wind farm companies.

To give you some idea of the way that wind farms could end up costing us money, in maintanence and actually in using up electricity, rather than generating it, consider two simple issues:

a) Heat.
Obviously all power sources will have to use some power to generate power but in conventional ESB stations these are well known, accounted for, and generally not all that significant. Say for example you take the very simple question of heating the building that the power station is in, which is obviously necessary in case equipment freezes etc. Well while obviously your average power station, in say Ardnacrusha, is quite large its after all only one building and surely doesn't cost gigantic sums of money to heat. On the otherhand the largest wind turbine currently manufactured is said to generate 16,300 MWh (2) a year while Ardnacrusha for example produces 332,000 MWh a year which means that even if you install the biggest turbines possible you still need about 20 of them to correspond to one power station, at best. But you have to heat each one of the turbines as well - they have heating coils going through them, they cannot afford to have them freeze etc - and these are enornous things exposed on the side of mountains. You can imagine that that simple thing, while small for a normal power station is a major headache for the wind farms. During the recent bad weather in the UK it was found that the wind farms were using up more electricity than they were generating, because of this simple issue (3).

b) Maintenance of the Machinery.
Again there is always going to be a cost associated with keeping equipment running reliably but there are particular problems again for the turbines. In Ardnacrusha for example you have 4 turbines, being fed by water flowing through pipes of 6 metres in diameter, to maintain. It wouldn't strike you as an enormous headache to do that and don't forget they are set into artificially created concrete channels which are not likely to create unexpected conditions. Remember now that for the wind farm you have to multiply that maintenance by 20, because a very conservative minimum of 20 turbines corresponds to one power station, and the diameter of the blades on some of these 6mw turbines are 126 metres! (4) To keep very advanced esoteric equipment like that maintained obviously requires either huge over the top and very expensive engineering specs when they are built (they talk about, for example, 500 tons of concrete for the foundation for each turbine) or they use very unusual and, of all things, electricity intensive ongoing maintenance procedures. So for example the wind farm operators routinely turn the turbines, via electricity from the grid, when they would otherwise be static because they need to for maintenance reasons. Otherwise they would run into enormous problems with buckling and warping of the blades (due to their weight or the sun etc) if they remain static for too long.
Here is a quote on this serious long term maintanence issue:

"'In large rotating power trains such as this, if allowed to stand motionless for any period of time, the unit will experience "bowing" of shafts and rotors under the tremendous weight. Therefore, frequent rotating of the unit is necessary to prevent this. As an example, even in port Navy ships keep their propeller shafts and turbine power trains slowly rotating. It is referred to as "jacking the shaft" to prevent any tendency to bow. Any bowing would throw the whole train out of balance with potentially very serious damage when bringing the power train back on line.
'In addition to just protecting the gear box and generator shafts and bearings, the blades on a large wind turbine would offer a special challenge with respect to preventing warping and bowing when not in use. For example, on a sunny, windless day, idle wind turbine blades would experience uneven heating from the sun, something that would certainly cause bowing and warping. The only way to prevent this would be to keep the blades moving to even out the sun exposure to all parts of the blade.' So, the point that major amounts of incoming electrical power is used to turn the power train and blades when the wind is not blowing is very accurate, and it is not something the operators of large wind turbines can avoid.
'[Also, there is] the likely need for a hefty, forced-feed lubricating system for the shaft and turbine blade assembly bearings. This would be a major hotel load. I can't imagine passive lubrication (as for the wheel bearings on your car) for an application like this. Maybe so, but I would be very surprised. Assuming they have to have a forced-feed lubrication system, given the weight on those bearings (40 tons on the bearing for the rotor and blades alone) a very robust (energy-sucking) lubricating oil system would be required. It would also have to include cooling for the oil and an energy-sucking lube oil purification system too.'
--Lawrence E. Miller, Gerrardstown, WV, an engineer with over 40 years of professional experience with large power train machinery associated with Navy ships." (5)

So yes believe it or not folks you can actually end up with the wind farms becoming a net ongoing drain on the electricity system, even while ignoring the enormous cost of constructing them! To give you some idea of the heavy power supplies that are used by the wind farms here is a list from the same website as the last quote:
- yaw mechanism (to keep the blade assembly perpendicular to the wind; also to untwist the electrical cables in the tower when necessary) -- the nacelle (turbine housing) and blades together weigh 92 tons on a GE 1.5-MW turbine;

- blade-pitch control (to keep the rotors spinning at a regular rate);

- lights, controllers, communication, sensors, metering, data collection, etc.;

- heating the blades -- this may require 10%-20% of the turbine's nominal (rated) power;

- heating and dehumidifying the nacelle -- according to Danish manufacturer Vestas, "power consumption for heating and dehumidification of the nacelle must be expected during periods with increased humidity, low temperatures and low wind speeds";

- oil heater, pump, cooler, and filtering system in gearbox;

- hydraulic brake (to lock the blades in very high wind);

- thyristors (to graduate the connection and disconnection between generator and grid) -- 1%-2% of the energy passing through is lost;

- magnetizing the stator -- the induction generators used in most large grid-connected turbines require a "large" amount of continuous electricity from the grid to actively power the magnetic coils around the asynchronous "cage rotor" that encloses the generator shaft; at the rated wind speeds, it helps keep the rotor speed constant, and as the wind starts blowing it helps start the rotor turning (see next item); in the rated wind speeds, the stator may use power equal to 10% of the turbine's rated capacity, in slower winds possibly much more;

- using the generator as a motor (to help the blades start to turn when the wind speed is low or, as many suspect, to maintain the illusion that the facility is producing electricity when it is not, particularly during important site tours) -- it seems possible that the grid-magnetized stator must work to help keep the 40-ton blade assembly spinning, along with the gears that increase the blade rpm some 50 times for the generator, not just at cut-in (or for show in even less wind) but at least some of the way up towards the full rated wind speed; it may also be spinning the blades and rotor shaft to prevent warping when there is no wind. (6)

Also you must bear in mind that unlike normal power plants wind energy is very erratic which means that most of the time the wind turbines are not generating electricity for the grid. They only kick in when there is a significant amount of wind and actually they will then stop turning if the wind gets too high, so they are only useful for a short period. The point then is that you are drawing heavy ongoing electricity to permanently maintain them while only getting these bits and pieces of power from them.

Anyway if you listen to the above mentioned radio interview you might end up thinking that the phrase 'scam' is well applied to these wind farms!

Footnotes
1. http://windwisecapecod.com/resources.html .

2. http://www.iwea.com/index.cfm/page/technicalfaqs?#q25 .

3. http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2010/12/29/uk-wind-f...ated/ .

4. http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/20...built .

5. http://www.aweo.org/windconsumption.html .

6. Ibid.

 #   Title   Author   Date 
   sounds like the inverse     opus diablos    Fri Jan 21, 2011 14:38 
   Go Industrial.     Engineeer.    Fri Jan 21, 2011 18:37 
   The facts     Buddingengineer    Fri Jan 21, 2011 20:17 
   Slyne Head.     Peadaar    Fri Jan 21, 2011 21:20 
   Replying to comments     Brian    Sat Jan 22, 2011 00:44 
   Dungeons in Dublin Four.     Engineeer    Sat Jan 22, 2011 08:12 
   Use your Imagination.     Engineer.    Sat Jan 22, 2011 09:28 
   intelligent and informed counter-arguments, for the curious ..     john    Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:41 
   Sheer Power.     Engineer.    Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:11 
 10   Damned statistics     Buddingengineer    Sat Jan 22, 2011 13:38 
 11   Go West Young Man.     Engineer.    Sat Jan 22, 2011 17:20 
 12   The answer my friend is blowin ' in the wind .     Sceptic .    Sat Jan 22, 2011 22:37 
 13   Commentating on the Commentators who have replied to the Reply of Commentators!     Brian    Sun Jan 23, 2011 03:55 
 14   Blowing in the wind.     Engineer.    Sun Jan 23, 2011 08:15 
 15   American Foresight.     American.    Sun Jan 23, 2011 09:19 
 16   Arab instability...?, yank     opus diablos    Sun Jan 23, 2011 13:04 
 17   We all stumble.     American    Sun Jan 23, 2011 13:21 
 18   We all make mistakes     opus diablos    Sun Jan 23, 2011 13:45 
 19   The waste of wind farming     Einstien's neighbour    Mon Jan 24, 2011 00:58 
 20   The Dreamy Celt.     Peadaar.    Mon Jan 24, 2011 17:41 
 21   Own consumptionm,     Buddingengineer    Mon Jan 24, 2011 20:10 
 22   garbage in, garbage out     Artic Blast    Mon Jan 24, 2011 21:07 
 23   Anonymous posting absolves you     Anonymous    Mon Jan 24, 2011 21:11 
 24   Eskimo Experiment     Engineer.    Tue Jan 25, 2011 06:58 
 25   Self serving laziness     Buddingengineer    Tue Jan 25, 2011 08:15 
 26   It's not all about perfect efficiency. there are other considerations     Feudal Castrato    Fri Jan 28, 2011 08:25 
 27   Yankee Know How.     Engineer.    Fri Jan 28, 2011 08:50 
 28   Coming to a hillside near you...     Brian    Sat Jan 29, 2011 06:52 
 29   Machines need Backup.     Machine-Man.    Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:24 
 30   Winds contribution     valamhic    Tue Feb 01, 2011 02:19 
 31   Speak your own Wisdom.     Electronics Engineer.    Tue Feb 01, 2011 21:00 
 32   Ugly     mary    Mon May 14, 2012 16:42 
 33   talk to the residents of fukushima about aesthetic grievances..     lefty    Tue May 15, 2012 06:18 
 34   if we're going to get serious..     opus diablos    Tue May 15, 2012 12:39 
 35   Wind Turbine Syndrome and Save the Eagles International     Eireannach    Tue Nov 24, 2015 06:20 
 36   Offshore wind turbine effects on marine life     anon    Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:31 
 37   no more wind turbines untill we make windmills part of a continious power supply     phil    Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:20 
 38   yet another indy piss taker     glug    Tue Dec 15, 2015 08:31 


Number of comments per page
  
 
© 2001-2018 Independent Media Centre Ireland. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by Independent Media Centre Ireland. Disclaimer | Privacy