Protesters disrupt Pro Cathedral mass

by Ray Wed Apr 07, 2010 08:58

Desperate times test men and bring out the best and the worst in human nature. Some Zionists were left-leaning and supported socialist causes - vide the number of Russian Jews who supported the Russian Revolution (and who were hunted and liquidated by Stalin's deadly network in the 30s and 40s). Other Zionists ended up supporting rightist racial causes. The same goes for Lutherans and Catholics in Nazi Germany. Some joined the party and carved out complicit careers for themselves; many more kept their heads down and prayed for better times; a few like Bonhoeffer and von Stauffenberg put their heads on the block, actually their necks in the noose.

National Socialism was a mixture of racially based nationalism, borrowing racial theories from a 19th century English quack scientist called Chamberlain, and loud socialist rhetoric. Once he got into power Hitler rallied to the interests of the bankers and industrial capitalists and ordered the state murder of the left-leaners like Hitlerjugend leader Ernst Roehm.

Men are good or bad in times of economic and political stress depending on their actions based on reflective consciences.

by A Freeman Tue Apr 06, 2010 21:59

Re: RC Church and the Holocaust, It's important to note that while many individual catholics risked their lives to save Jews throughout Europe, the attitude of the Papacy and hierarchy was at best ambiguous as demonstrated by the actions (or inaction) of the Vatican in relation to the catholic clergy who openly co-operated with the Nazis in countries such as Croatia and Slovakia.

In both those countries catholic clergy worked closely with local fascists as demonstrated by the relationship between Cardinal Stepinac and Ustashe leader Ante Pavelic in Croatia and the fact that the leader of the Nazi-allied puppet regime in Slovakia was Monsignor Josef Tizo! In both countries the vast majority of the Jewish population were shipped to Nazi extermination camps in Poland with the active co-operation of the local fascist militias, in Croatia the concentration camp at Jasenovac was even run by a franciscan monk called Draganovic (known as 'Brother Devil' to his unfortunate victims) and the bloodthirsty actions of the Ustashe guards even surprised the members of Himmler's SS who visited the camp.

At the end of the war, not alone did the vatican not disassociate themselves from these criminals but in many cases (Pavelic, Eichmann, Stangl) these mass-murderers were helped to escape to S.America by vatican officials! A notorious figure in creating the rat-lines for leading nazi and croatian war criminals was Bishop Alois Hudal who was an Austrian and Nazi true-believer based at the vatican. There is also an issue of Ustashe reserves of gold (mostly stolen from their victims) which were shipped to the vatican bank in Rome for safekeeping, undoubtedly this helped Pavelic and his ilk to smooth their passage to S.America, and were any of these mass murderers excommunicated? - not as far as I know.

by pew man Mon Apr 05, 2010 03:08

I disagree with Sceptic's asssertion that the Boys from the Vat covered up the holocaust. An Irish Monsignor Flaherty used Vatican resources to safeguard and smuggle Jews out of Italy in the final years of WW2 so they couldn't be rounded up and sent to the death camps.

by Sceptic - None whatsoever . Mon Apr 05, 2010 02:42

While we are aware of the never ending cover ups , in relation to clerical child abuse , we
seem to forget the catholic church also covered up the Holocaust , ''The Boys From The Vat''
are Masters of the Cover up Brigade .

by JF Sun Apr 04, 2010 20:26

PressTV is reporting that: The plight of the Vatican continues to draw worldwide attention as revelations surface that the late pope John Paul II had allegedly blocked an investigation into the allegations of sexual misconduct by Catholic priests.

The late Polish pontiff, who is close to being beatified and named as a saint of the Catholic Church, was eventually dragged into the child abuse scandal surrounding the Vatican on Sunday when serious allegations were made against him for allegedly blocking an inquiry into a pedophile cardinal, promoting senior church figures despite accusations that they had molested boys and covering up innumerable cases of abuse during his 26-year papacy.

Today's Guardian is reporting under the headline; Pope Defiant Over Child Sex Abuse that: In Easter sermons that revealed penitence, shame and shortcomings, archbishops in Armagh, Dublin, Edinburgh, Vienna and Westminster asked congregations for their forgiveness and urged them not to abandon the church because of past sins. But there was no apology from Rome, as Benedict XVI maintained a steadfast silence about the crisis in his annual Urbi et Orbi – To the City and the World – address.The only mention of the turmoil came from Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the dean of the College of Cardinals, who stood before the pope in a packed St Peter's Square and lauded him as the "unfailing rock" of the Catholic church. In a departure from protocol, he told the pontiff in a special tribute: "We are deeply grateful for your strength of spirit and the apostolic courage with which you proclaim Christ's gospel." In an apparent reference to the crisis, and employing a term already used by the pope, Sodano said the church would not be intimidated by "idle chatter"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/04/pope-defian...abuse