Upcoming Events

Cork | Miscellaneous

no events match your query!

New Events

Cork

no events posted in last week

Blog Feeds

Spirit of Contradiction

offsite link The Party and the Ballot Box Sun Jul 14, 2019 22:24 | Gavin Mendel-Gleason

offsite link On The Decline and Fall of The American Empire and Socialism Sat Jan 26, 2019 01:52 | S. Duncan

offsite link What is Dogmatism and Why Does It Matter? Wed Mar 21, 2018 08:10 | Sylvia Smith

offsite link The Case of Comrade Dallas Mon Mar 19, 2018 19:44 | Sylvia Smith

offsite link Review: Do Religions Evolve? Mon Aug 14, 2017 19:54 | Dara McHugh

Spirit of Contradiction >>

Dublin Opinion
Life should be full of strangeness, like a rich painting

offsite link Some Thoughts on the Brexit Joint Report 11:50 Sat Dec 09, 2017

offsite link IRISH COMMONWEALTH: TRADE UNIONS AND CIVIL SOCIETY IN THE 21ST CENTURY 14:06 Sat Nov 18, 2017

offsite link Notes for a Book on Money and the Irish State - The Marshall Aid Program 15:10 Sat Apr 02, 2016

offsite link The Financial Crisis:What Have We Learnt? 19:58 Sat Aug 29, 2015

offsite link Money in 35,000 Words or Less 21:34 Sat Aug 22, 2015

Dublin Opinion >>

NAMA Wine Lake

offsite link Test ? 12 November 2018 Mon Nov 12, 2018 14:28 | namawinelake

offsite link Farewell from NWL Sun May 19, 2013 14:00 | namawinelake

offsite link Happy 70th Birthday, Michael Sun May 19, 2013 14:00 | namawinelake

offsite link Of the Week? Sat May 18, 2013 00:02 | namawinelake

offsite link Noonan denies IBRC legal fees loan approval to Paddy McKillen was in breach of E... Fri May 17, 2013 14:23 | namawinelake

NAMA Wine Lake >>

Ice Skaters on the Lough put in Mortal Danger

category cork | miscellaneous | news report author Monday January 11, 2010 15:18author by Hilary Quinn Report this post to the editors

Sunday the 10th of January - Cork

On Sunday 10th January at approximately 6pm, 4 ice-skaters were almost left stranded on a breaking sheet of ice by Gardai.
This is when the JCB driver started breaking the ice while the boys were still out there skating..
This is when the JCB driver started breaking the ice while the boys were still out there skating..

Gardai failed to notify the 4 young men that the ice on the frozen lough in Cork was being broken up using a JCB as per their orders to do so. When the young men saw what was occurring, and reportedly felt a crack go through the ice they were still standing on, they immediately made their way to the edge of the ice sheet at which point a conversation occured with the Gardai. The young men in question queried why they had not been notified by Gardai that the ice was being broken up, and were in clear distress as they needed to now make an escape from the breaking ice, made even more brittle by the actions of the JCB driver.

A crowd of approx 50+ bystanders witnessed both the event and the ensuing conversation, and it was clear the Gardai not only failed to notify the young men the ice was being broken up, but also had no equipment or interest in getting them out safely.

Luckily a bystander that lived nearby got his children's sandbox from home, and this was used as a floatation device to rescue the remaining three ice-skaters. The Gardai were not involved in the rescue and did not call any re-enforcements to help with this type of rescue.

Related Link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hilaryaq/sets/72157623184434242/

The boys are shocked that the Gardai are breaking the ice without telling them beforehand so that they could get off the lake..
The boys are shocked that the Gardai are breaking the ice without telling them beforehand so that they could get off the lake..

Ice skaters on the frozen lough put a ladder from the ice over water to the surrounding wall so that they can climb across and onto land
Ice skaters on the frozen lough put a ladder from the ice over water to the surrounding wall so that they can climb across and onto land

The first ice skater crosses over the ladder and unbelievably makes it across without falling into the water
The first ice skater crosses over the ladder and unbelievably makes it across without falling into the water

The second ice skater starts to make the journey across, but luckily a passer by ran home to grab his kids sandbox, which floats and is used to get the remaining two ice skaters safely across. The Gardai offered no assistance in any of this.
The second ice skater starts to make the journey across, but luckily a passer by ran home to grab his kids sandbox, which floats and is used to get the remaining two ice skaters safely across. The Gardai offered no assistance in any of this.

author by Conorpublication date Mon Jan 11, 2010 16:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

What the hell is wrong with the Gardaí involved? How could this have heppended?

author by Hilary Quinnpublication date Mon Jan 11, 2010 16:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I know Conor, I'm still shocked myself over it, and I had words with both the JCB driver and the Guard in the photo to which they responded: They shouldn't be out there in the first place.

I probably will call to the Garda station tomorrow to report it to the Garda ombudsman..

author by Lough residentpublication date Mon Jan 11, 2010 16:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The gardai should have warned the young people to get off the ice but they weren't in danger. The lough isn't deep, you can walk across it, it is only a few feet deep in most parts. All they were in danger of was getting wet and very cold.

author by timmypublication date Mon Jan 11, 2010 16:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Typical stuff from the gardai,none of this will come as a surprise to people living in or around the lough
area,the gardai are now seen as scum by most people in cork given their behaviour on a wide number of matters
it wasnt long ago that a russian man was found dead in garda custody in togher garda station only down the road
was he murdered,was there ever an investigation???? its very hard to challenge the gardai's actions,even with a garda
ombudsman,given that the gardai like fianna fail,is a family business,typical stuff once again.

author by Damienpublication date Mon Jan 11, 2010 17:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The lough isn't deep, you can walk across it, it is only a few feet deep in most parts. All they were in danger of was getting wet and very cold. "

Thanks for the reassurance, and you're an expert in all things sub-aqua? Tell me then how someone is able to walk through 3-4 feet of ice cold water? Is it magic water in that there Lough?

author by Conor. Mpublication date Mon Jan 11, 2010 18:11author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Instead of the RTEnews showing someone smashing their skull on the pavement, maybe they could have shown something like this. The image of the guy crawling across the ladder would have made a good picture for the news.

- Gardaí are warning people of the danger of ice, in other news, the Gardaí trap people trying to have a bit of craic... -

author by PiggyBankpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 07:05author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I wonder who is being paid to drive around pointlessly poking holes in frozen pond ice with their expensive to rent and otherwise idle construction related plant and machinery? anybody's relatives I wonder?

author by johnpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It's all a bit confused. In the Echo and the Examiner one day over the freeze there was one article about two guys who fell through ice in the Lough and had to be rescued. the article finished with a warning to the public not to go out on the ice. In the same papers on the same day there was also a photo of a guy ice-skating at Gougane Barra where the tone of the photo was like "what a great thing to be doing."
Ah well, anyone who relies on the corporate media for their worldview is in trouble anyway.

author by Lough Residentpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 15:28author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Damien you sarcastically question whether I am a sub aqua expert. No Damien, but you don't need to be an expert to know that it would be extremely difficult for teenagers to die in 3 - 4 foot of cold water when they only have to walk a few yards to the path. The water would have been cold not freezing - frozen water is called ice!
The gardai should have got the young people off the ice before they broke it up with the JCB but some people's reaction here is way over the top, melodrama at the Lough!

author by Damienpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 16:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

So it would be difficult for someone who is 5 ft to drown in 4ft of water? Not really.
And you should check up on your grammar. Frozen water is called ice. Freezing water can be called anything it wants, as it hasn't actually frozen yet, but is in the process of 'freezing'. But its a safe to bet to assume it would be more than just 'cold'.
And anyone, submerged in water of 2 degrees, will be in control of their faculties for all of 30 seconds before their nervous system goes haywire and they cant do basic stuff like smash ice, straighten their hair and wave to their friends etc

author by Lough Residentpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 18:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Damien you are talking rubbish. Have you ever been to the Lough? Have you ever been to Cork? The young people on the ice were not 5 feet tall. The Lough for the most part is a big pond, you fall in you get a little wet and you wade out. The Lough is not the North Atlantic. your nervous system would not be affected as you say. This story is a lot of fuss about nothing. There is no way that peoples lives were at risk this is scaremongering and it is childish. There is no water again on the Northside, parts of the city are flooded again, these are real issues affecting peoples lives not this dreamt up "almost tragedy" that was never going to happen.

author by timmypublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 19:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

so lough resident,this is a fuss about nothing,then what the fuck are the guards doing out there in the first place
no. 1. spoiling peoples fun
and no.2. putting people in danger
why arent they out trying to rid cork city of its growing heroin problem???? its been said before,and it'll be said of the guards again-
useless bastards!!!!!!!!!

author by Hilary Quinnpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 20:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thanks all for your comments..

To anyone expressing a view that the Lough is not dangerous or life-threatening, I'd like to point you to this article: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/dramatic-rescue-pr....html

"Third officer and river rescue expert Adrian Spillett said by the time his crew arrived, the teenager, who was dangerously close to becoming hypothermic, had been pulled from the lake. He was treated by HSE ambulance staff at the scene for shock. Mr Spillett said he was lucky to escape with his life."

There is an argument that the boys shouldn't have been out there in the first place, and I agree, they shouldn't have. But that does not give the Gardai and JCB driver the right to put their lives in danger knowingly. They should have been doing everything in their power to get these boys off the ice safely, and then punish them if needs be, instead they actually started breaking the ice with them out there, it's an absolute disgrace.

No medical personnel, no fire brigade, and 'let's break the ice and see what happens', was their attitude. They are absolutely haunted that one of the residents brought that sandbox, because without a doubt, one of the three remaining would have gone into the water if they had continued to use that ladder, and based on the expert's opinion above, it is life-endangering, and there was no ambulance, no fire brigade, no facilities, no nothing should the worst have happened. And it was more likely that the worst would happen since the ice was further weakened by the JCB before the boys got out.

author by Conorpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 20:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

That story in the examaminer is not making your look too good.

author by Hilary Quinnpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 21:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'll put it this way, the breaking of the ice was meant to prevent people from going onto it on the first place. It should never have been implemented with people standing on the ice, obviously!! If the intention was to prevent people falling in, they should have been warned and taken out first.

author by Loughedpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 21:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Would it be at all possible that the Guards DID ask the youths to get off the ice but they refused to do so?

author by Hilary Quinnpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 21:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

No. Definately not. And with 50 + witnesses to the conversation and the event as it happened, the boys literally felt the ice crack, immediately skated to the edge, and with their arms outstretched to the Gardai they were saying why on earth didn't you tell us you were going to break the ice, we still have to get off.

I'm a witness to that conversation, and the event, and the Gardai DEFINITELY did not notify them they were about to break the ice. If they had done, the boys would have been off the ice before the JCB started, simple as that. And I hope those boys made a complaint and a statement to that effect.

author by jayopublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 21:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

i have a feeling the gardai spoke to them beforehand but they ignored them, anyone out on ice like this is an asshole and disent deserve to be rescued

author by Damienpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 22:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

True, and why would Gardaí in Cork, or anywhere for that matter, try and catch the city's drug dealers when its handier work to prop up gates, fences and JCBs

author by Hilary Quinnpublication date Tue Jan 12, 2010 22:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi Jayo, your feeling would be wrong. The facts are there.

Thanks all for your contributions!

author by Lough Residentpublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 09:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well Damien your anti-establishment attitudes don't extend as far as the millionaire owned bourgeois media! You believe that the Gardai instead of breaking the ice on the Lough should have been trying to catch some drug dealers. When the two people referred to in the Examiner story fell through the ice the Gardai, fire brigade and ambulance services all turned up in numbers to rescue them. The Examiner story you put so much store by claims that someone could have died. So in that context was it not better that a JCB was acquired and the ice smashed up in order to prevent the possibility of fatalities?
Should the Gardai give up all of their other duties and solely concentrate on going after drug dealers? Can you give us one example of any country in the world where the state has been able to seriously control or stop the "illegal" drug trade through policing methods?

author by lulupublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 09:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I wouldn't want to pre-judge what I didn't witness, but it'd not be the 1st time Gards have used a JCB to endanger the lives of citizens: cf 'Black Monday' at Pollatomish Pier, when Gards used a JCB as a battering-ram against a peaceful crowd who were defending the private property of a local family.

author by Dr. Carrascopublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:59author address author phone Report this post to the editors

How did the man driving the JCB not see the four of them skating on the Ice. It's not like blindness is an ailment commonly found in JCB digger drivers. Is it? I mean come on. It's like they're polar bears with paintball guns is it?

Although I do think that 'PiggyBank'' has touched on somethign here. Breaking ice is a sure way to be beat any recession and I'm sure there's loads of it arround at the minute (just not where its supposed to be; in the ARCTIC OCEAN). The government should be developing legislation for this kind of buisness enterprise.Or instead of a buisness opertunity this should deffinately be a considred a leisurable activity; destructive, yes, but at the same time therapeutic and highly usefull in sorting out the every day worries of the plain people of Ireland.

author by Hilary Quinnpublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 13:57author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The JCB driver DID see them, and knew they were there. I told him there's no way he should be breaking the ice with people still standing on it, and his responce was they shouldn't be out there in the first place. The Gardai and the JCB driver knowingly broke the ice, with people standing on it. It was a malicious act, and there were mothers in the onlooking crowd saying as much to the Gardai, that there was no way they should touch the ice until those guys were off it first.

To the lough resident, yes, the JCB was brought in the break ice and protect the safety of the people, but NOT with people still standing on the ice, that is malicious, and it endangered lives rather than protecting them, which is what they were meant to be doing.

The Gardai and the JCB driver took the law into their own hands, and decided since the young men shouldnt have been on the ice in the first place, then they were entitled to break it without telling them, and without getting them back on land first.

author by Peterpublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 14:09author email peteintheloop at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi,

I was the second skater to come off the ice.

The Gardai shouted at us once.. a simple "Hey!".... we hudled together and discussed what to do..
While this discussion was going on the jcb had come over and started to break the ice that we needed to come back.. we felt the ice crack and weaken all over the general area.. hence the race over to the Gardai and the following argument.

When we got back accross we had words with the Gardai who claim they told the council to wait until we were across until they started using the jcb to which the council ignored them.. I asked the head council fella about this and i recieved mumbling so i walked on.

There were no danger ice sign that day.. the ice was broken around the outside to stop people from going out onto it.. we found a narrow part and went out using the ladder.. we have plenty of expierience in ice and had appropriate gear with us such as a pick axe to check the thickness of the ice in various spots so that we could mark out a safe area to skate in. I had a 100ft rope in the unlikley event one of us fell in. I dont know how deep it is in the middle but have heard varying rumours from 4ft to 10ft.. bear in mind the bottom is all silt and muck.

None of us made a formal complaint as what we did is technically against the law.. we trespassed on a bird sanctuary, endangered us of the lives of others and its a public order offence of some sort too.. however i dont think any judge was going to prosicute us for such a harmless act with good intentions.

author by Hilary Quinnpublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 15:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi Peter great to hear from you! I had a feeling you guys wouldn't make a complaint, I suppose what's really pissed me off is that the Gardai decided the punishment for whatever 'crime' you commited by being out there.. when in fact, they should have benn protecting your safety and then go through the correct legal channels to prosecute you if needs be..

Glad you guys got out safe in the end though, and you were very entertaining to watch before everything went pear-shaped!!

author by tristanpublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 15:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Jeses christ, what the fuck were they doing breaking the ice with ye in the middle? they actually made ye walk across a that toothless ladder..am I actually paying my taxes to see my friends drown in the Loch? Cian, you should report this man, there regulators for that type of thing ..theres a call centre actually where I work, il get you the number, scum! Other than that-great laugh, pitty I didnt come!

author by Lough Residentpublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 15:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Well Peter that was a very foolish thing to do. There was no warning sign but the ice had already been broken to prevent people going on to the Lough and you went out of your way to get a ladder to cross the broken ice!
This puts a very different slant on the whole affair. I am glad none of you were hurt but you obviously should not have crossed the broken ice irrespective of your claims of experience. Also the council workers breaking the ice with the JCB while you were on it is now not such a big deal as the ice was broken already and you had the ladder to go back the way you came.

author by Damienpublication date Wed Jan 13, 2010 16:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Skating on ice v antisocial behaviour? Glad these dastardly teens got their just desserts.

author by Peterpublication date Thu Jan 14, 2010 05:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

@ Lough Resident..

I never claimed i was 100% right did I?..

Ya I got a ladder and crossed broken ice to go ice skating.. no bad intentions and far greater problems out there than the four of us i can assure u..

author by Peeper Spraypublication date Sat Jan 16, 2010 21:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Right across the board the gardai are abusing they're powers. I watched the other day as a detective tried to smash the side window of a jeep because the occupant was being "too slow" opening the window. I took my phone out and was texting a friend, when the detective with the baton, came over and aggressively told me he'd pepper spray me, before he grabbed my phone, i told him i was texting someone, but he thought i was filming him. They get really paranoid, and angry when they think they're being filmed. What else can any citizen do, is it illegal?

author by Conorpublication date Sat Jan 16, 2010 22:48author address author phone Report this post to the editors

No, its not illegal to record at all, but it is illegal to take a phone. The Gardaí don't have any real authority until you have broken a law, or they suspect you have broken a law, otherwise, your free to do as you wish.

Number of comments per page
  
 
© 2001-2020 Independent Media Centre Ireland. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by Independent Media Centre Ireland. Disclaimer | Privacy