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Dublin - Event Notice
Thursday January 01 1970

Public Meeting For Clerical Abuse Survivors

category dublin | crime and justice | event notice author Friday October 23, 2009 15:47author by Kevin Flanaganauthor email religiousabusetruth at gmail dot com Report this post to the editors

Public meeting for clerical and religious abuse survivors and their supporters . Axis Centre Ballymun 7.30 pm , Dec 12

The government and clergy need to be held to full account for what they did to children in their care . No more secret deals . For an independent enquiry . More details closer to the date of the meeting.

author by Kevin Flanaganpublication date Fri Oct 23, 2009 16:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The High Court decision that publication of the report of the commission of investigation into the Dublin archdiocese can go ahead following 22 edits has been generally welcomed . But many survivors question the delays feeling that their concerns are still being put on the long finger . The Catholic Church handed over control of schools to the government a week ago . This means that claims for compenstation must in future be made against the government and not the church. Anyone wanting to discuss the way forward welcome to attend the meeting.

author by Declanpublication date Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

For all that has gone on over the last year in Irish society, and the wrongs our leaders and the institutions we place our trust in have enforced upon us, the one truth that has never been fully resolved is that of the scandal of the abuse carried out by the State and the Catholic Church on innocent children placed in their care. The haphazard nature of the way they attempt to deal with the reality of the abuse that went on is a disgrace and an insult to every Irish citizen.

i just wanted to express my support to all the groups involved in trying to bring some form of resolution to what is the most horrendous and brutal episode in our countries history.

author by Brigid Collinspublication date Mon Oct 26, 2009 21:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Clergy of all ranks think they are above the law of the land and immune to prosecution and therefore they look down their noses at the laity and those they abuse feeling they have the right to do as they please with impunity.

The Gardai and the State over the years aided and abetted their crimes against the abused by turning a blind eye and deaf ear and not following up appeals for help or investigating complaints.

There is a lot of rot in the Catholic Church and in the Gardai and many State services who have hidden these unspeakable crimes by Priests, Bishops and Archbishops for over the last 50 years.

It is time the laity marched on the Churches and forced the Church to account for its wrongdoings.

It is also time to stop donating money to the Catholic Church. They have their properties, lands and Churches and are sitting on it in Banks and not paying it out to the survivors of abuse in any large amount so why do we continue to fund them to hoard more money away while being so mean with their compensation payments.

Think about it. DO NOT SUPPORT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. They do not pay their debts to the victims.

author by kevinpublication date Thu Oct 29, 2009 01:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

thank for your support we need to stands up and split state and church people dont know what is going on lets work to gether

author by kevinpublication date Mon Nov 02, 2009 13:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

the 18 congregations in the child abuse decleared to be worth 15 bn but yet they refuse to put a penny more to the redress board yet the brother s in volved walk free for there crimes

author by A Victim of the Clergypublication date Mon Nov 02, 2009 13:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

From what I have witnessed personally in the last few years the Clergy and the Church are still above the law and not accountable to anyone but themselves.

They have an endless pit of money to pay for the best lawyers money can buy to dig them out of the holes they have made for themselves.

When you start off with a case against them in Tribunals they push things along when they don't like the results they get with appeals to the Circuit Court. When they arrive in Court their Senior Barristers announce even before the hearing that should they dare to give a decision against the Church they will appeal to the High Court and if things go against them there they will go all the way to the Supreme Court in order to WIN at any cost knowing most of the time that the victims do not have the resources to keep on going in the Courts so they hope they will give up. Some have lost their homes in legal fees but kept up the fight for justice.

The bottom line is that it is the Irish people who have funded the Catholic Church and given them their riches with collections at masses, Dues several times a year, buying Masses, making donations to local Clergy.

WE MUST STOP ALL FINANCIAL DONATIONS TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NOW AND FOREVER.

If all of this money to the Clergy dried up then maybe they would not have an endless amount of money to buy the groups of Senior Barristers they keep in business 24/7 to fight for all of them.

These are corrupt men who should be in a prison of a standard that they inflicted on their victims of abuse but they willl never see the inside of a prison. If they did unfortunately they would have all mod cons and not a day of suffering other than the loss of their freedom. They would never suffer what their victims did. In other words even if they got prison it would never be real justice in the form of an eye for an eye.

There is a lot to be said for the justice of the old Testament as these men deserve an eye for an eye. To some it may seem like revenge but to others it seems more like REAL JUSTICE.

They did the crime now they should do the time!!!!

Most of the clergy live in better conditions than the Irish citizen all paid for by the laity. They get their free house, subsidised holidays (they call retreats and sabbaticals), perks too like half price membership to local golf clubs and health centres, invited to all the best socials in their area for photo ops. What a life. No mortgage to worry about, no job loss too worry about or unemployment they have a job for life can do as they like abuse away with no accountability they will just be moved to another cushy Parish where people welcome them with a party and treat them like Gods.

It is enough to make a PIG SICK.

WE SHOULD STOP ALL DONATIONS TO CHURCHES AND CLERGY.

WE SHOULD HAVE OPEN PROTESTS AT LOCAL CHURCHES AND NOT ATTEND CHURCH SERVICES.

WE SHOULD WARN OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN OF THE DANGERS THAT LURK WHEREVER A MEMBER OF THE CLERGY IS PRESENT.

WE SHOULD ALSO WARN ALL CITIZENS OF THE COLLUSION STILL BETWEEN CLERGY AND GARDAI.

author by Kevin Flanagan - survivors of child abusepublication date Wed Nov 04, 2009 14:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If ordinary people committed crimes like this they would be taken to court and prosecuted . Their assets would be taken from them . That's what should happen to church funds - CAB should be called in .The 18 congregations last week refused to increase compensation to abuse victims even though they have assets valued at 15 billion euros. The Irish Sunday Mail revealed last week that between 2002 and 2009 they made 14bn .From day one all there's been is deceit, lies and cover-up from the church..
In June's two day Dail debate on the Ryan report ministers and TDs lined up with crocodile tears to talk about how shameful things were , yet we still have the brothers, nuns and priests who committed these crimes walking the streets free with their big pious heads on them. It's time for action to be taken and the talking to stop .

author by jimmy mcpublication date Sat Nov 07, 2009 07:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

when will we learn and support the pkeople with no voices

author by trevorpublication date Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I agree with your sentiments jimmy .It looks like the survivors may be finding their own voices . I heard Kevin Flanagan speaking very impressively on Near FM recently about his brother's abuse at Artane . I'll try to find a link for the interview and put it up. I sort of understood the symbolism of the March of the Silent in Dublin two months back ,but at the same time thought that it might have been better if there had been shouting ,drums and whistles . Maybe we could have a lot of noise for the next protest ..

author by jimmy mcpublication date Thu Nov 12, 2009 02:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

how long more can the church rearders and its do gooders stand beck and say nothin on the abuse that went on lets stand up for the people who have no voices and call on the do gooders nuns and priests to come out for the people they made there name there name son

author by Kevin Flanaganpublication date Fri Nov 13, 2009 13:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Five priests involved in sexual abuse were from the parish of Donnycarney which is the parish where Artane was located. These men had easy access to the Artane school. The public meeting next month will ask why this matter was not revealed in the Ryan report . We want to know why Archbishop Martin who had been told forty years before theRyan Report was published that an epidemic of abuse was taking place did nothing to prevent it and allowed abusers like Fr Francis Markey to continue his activities .see
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priest-at-centr....html

author by kevinpublication date Tue Nov 17, 2009 01:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

support public meetin in the axis ballymun dec 12

author by kevinpublication date Thu Nov 19, 2009 07:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

support the meetin on child abuse in ballymun we are workin on a web in memory of micky flanagan whos case was first reported in the dail for the first in 1954 any one that can help plese contact above address

author by kevinpublication date Fri Nov 20, 2009 08:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

dillon thanks for your commets yes you are rite but what bisop martin said is ont a sussjestion he said it him self on morning ireland just after the ryan report in said they were his friends wit friends like that who said nothin who need emmies

author by Brigid Collinspublication date Sat Nov 21, 2009 02:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

With reference to the Church selling off property, being IN with property developers and keeping things hidden so they don't have to share the spoils, check out the link below regarding Clergy meetings with Frank Dunlop.

Related Link: http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2008/11/frank-dunlop-and-southside-parish.html
author by trevorpublication date Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A good question in the Clerical Whispers blog Brigid linked to
“What is it with Priests, ex Priests, big money connections, corruption in local plannning that Priests get involved in and they are not asked questions or held accountable?? “

The police , courts and prisons look after the secular criminals while the church and eventually God deals with spiritual transgressors . That’s the way it’s supposed to work anyway. The process finds expression in the rigid seperation of body and soul in catholic theology and goes right back to the Inquisitition and beyond . In reality there is only one world – one in which the devout lock children away in institutions.
There was something sickeningly perverse about the Ryan Report. An absurd pantomimic reversal of roles in which the secular authorities of the state heard the confession of the Catholic Church . A small penance was given ,absolution dispensed, then the sinner told to go away and sin no more.

author by trevorpublication date Mon Nov 23, 2009 15:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"MOST clerical abusers in the Dublin archdiocese will not be named in the damming report of the expert group investigating child abuse, the Irish Independent has learned."
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/paedophile-prie....html

The Independent wrote that it will be a damnng report , but by not naming the individuals involved , the cover up will continue. .The victims of abuse and Irish society as a whole will not be able to establish what links existed between the abusers and the Church hierararchy .Who else knew - TDs , the media , the gardai ? The public meeting next month will be asking whether the corrupt connections that allowed the criminal abuse of children to be covered up over the years are still in place .

author by Dillon - Child Abuse, Past, the very NOW, and the futurepublication date Mon Nov 23, 2009 17:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Kevin Brigid and Trevor

We can only shudder at the thought of the wounds inflicted by members (not all) of those in the Clergy who are perpetrators of abuse upon little children. Why such silence? Why the insult to try and 'pay off' the silence of these children now grown adults and possibly deeply wounded individuals?

4 Archbishops to choose the route of silence. Where is the State? Where are the Judiciary, the lawyers, the solicitors? Where are the medical profession? Where are the conspirational entities like teachers who must have known about the sadness being perpetrated by men of the Cloth?

Who else has been perpetrating these crimes in the secret realm that 'Sanctity of Silence' protects? Why have we allowed this slumber of sin and evil to pervade through the decades? What was the vested interest? Is it power and control? or pure vanity and conivance by the elite of 'knowledge' spectrum in society.

Ireland - the island of Ireland is embedded in Shame and stands morally bankrupt. We need to stand tall and forthwith address this bankruptcy and when better when we stand near economically bankrupt. People pay the cost in suffering yet again. When do we learn the importance of people. Let the State stand with the Church and take responsibility and let the Church be represented by all tentacles of its auspices including Opus Dei, the Knights of Columbanus, the Missionary orders, the Educational entities, the parishes etc. Redress is required forthwith otherwise 'the price tag for those abused is way too high'.

I ask one question. Of those who have been abused, how many have ended up in our prison system and can we address the criminality of their records on the basis of inhumane treatment by professionals etc. who caused their 'emotional Vietnam' while Elders ought to have held positions of Trust, Correctness and proferred Dignity?

author by trevorpublication date Wed Nov 25, 2009 15:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors


"I ask one question. Of those who have been abused, how many have ended up in our prison system and can we address the criminality of their records on the basis of inhumane treatment by professionals etc. who caused their 'emotional Vietnam' while Elders ought to have held positions of Trust, Correctness and proferred Dignity?"

That is a very good point Dillon .A good way to bring out more fully the story of the abused would be to research the number of former institution boys and girls who ended up in prisons . Amnesties for crimes committed by those disturbed and traumatised during their childhoods should be offered . The criminal network that covered up for the abuse needs to be investigated and the criminals identified and prosecuted .

Christine from the Aisling project was interviewed in the Irish Mail two days ago . She thought that the bishops should be stripped of their titles . To me that would be letting them off; we should forget about trying to shame these people . I really don't think that these abuses should be treated as "sins" for which the clergy should be" shamed ". They were crimes and so is the continued cover- up a crime.

author by Dillon - Child Sexual Abuse - The Report duepublication date Wed Nov 25, 2009 17:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Trevor

Thank you. Your view expresses the point I would like to make.

Children are precious and the one thing we are assured of in life is that we all experience childhood in varying degrees.

Abuse of a child is a heinous crime and has serious repercussions for the behaviour outcome in people. A US study report states that Abused Children tend to live shorter lives. Do we take account of this in our Tribunals of Enquiry! I don't think so.

Dillon

(What about children today? Do we know if the abuse is still happening to the same extent or is the harm greater?)

author by trevorpublication date Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think that the survivors' fight for truth and justice has prevented a lot of abuse that would otherwise be taking place today Dillon ,but that situation could change . The church is still actively involved with education .

That's why I think we should push this issue with groups involved in opposition to education cuts. The government is currently cutting off funds to schools . Things are very likely to get a lot worse . We could find ourselves going back to nineteen-fifties conditions .Under such circumstances a rebranded sanitized church could come along and offer its services again . We should take warning from what is going on in America where schools are being taken over by private charitable institutions . Instead of calling them schools they call them "acadamies". Something similar is happening in the UK.

author by susan o mahoneypublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 01:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The people at the top , by holding no one accountable are just as much to blame. Read my story *Injustice in Clonmel * ( google ) .

author by Kevin Flanagan - public meetingpublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 05:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

hi susan i read your story with interest i have also follow the case and i support the family 100per cent if we stand back and do nothin no one will know when the ryan re port was lanuch a group of us protestined outside and that what made world news wit all the injustices going on can be linked to gether we can make change keep up the fight

author by child abuse report readerpublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The report of the Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin has said it has no doubt that clerical child abuse was covered up by the Archdiocese and other church authorities.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/abuse.html

Read the full report:
Part One - http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/Partone.pdf
Part Two - http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/Parttwo.pdf
Appendices - http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/appendices.pdf

author by rte listenerpublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Nell Mc Cafferty is very angry about all these goings on and is calling for people to print and nail the report to the door of every church in ireland. In similar fashion to Martin Luther when he protested the misdoings of the church of the day, pointing out the problems and creating an alternative.

she is currently speaking on the pat kenny show on rte- http://www.rte.ie/radio/index.html

author by Brigid Collins - Manipulated Survivorspublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The panel on Pat Kenny Show right now are talking about Priests who have affairs with Nuns under the guise of counselling them.

This is nothing new. Control and sex is used by them. They are experts at MENTAL RESERVATION when it comes to hurting others. (Licence to lie). They are also

" qualified PSYCHOANALYSTS HAVING GOT THEIR QUALIFICATIONS AT ECKHART HOUSE IN BALLSBRIDGE." (They don't always use these qualifications for GOOD but to MANIPULATE AND USE OTHERS).

Check out the link below for one instance of a loving (sic!) relationship between Priest and Nun declaring their love for each other, taking holidays together, she going out to his place for night etc. etc. What more do we have to say. It goes on and the same people screw over others with their lies SORRY MENTAL RESERVATIONS!!!!
This is an updated link and shows that these Clergy even threaten fellow clergy who tell the truth like it is via their good pals the local Gardai.

We now have proof of these lies (mental reservations) that the Church condones and encourages the Clergy to use even in Court to protect themselves and their Church that is the most corrupt organisation in the world.

Hit them where it hurts in their cassock (frocks to you and me) pockets. DO NOT GIVE A BRASS CENT NEVER MIND A EURO IN ANY CHURCH IN THE LAND.

Let them feel the CREDIT CRUNCH. Let them eat dirt for a change rather than the children and adults they abuse.

Related Link: http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2009/07/parish-in-bray-24-update.html
author by trevorpublication date Fri Nov 27, 2009 13:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The thing about psychoanalysis training given to priests that Brigid mentions should be a matter of concern to the medical profession's ethics committee. . With their claims to ethical virtue undermined by these revelations the clergy wants to worm its way back into the subconcious of the faithful any way that it can . So they now embrace Freud to give it all a scientific gloss. Any survivor who makes too much of a noise about what went on will find themselves being asked by any of the various agencies involved , "Have you been for counselling?"

author by Bridget Collins - Manipulated Survivorspublication date Sun Nov 29, 2009 00:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Pope Benedict fiddles while Ireland and the survivors burn.

That is a good one. He is afraid he will be called upon to hand over some of the Churches wealth from the bulging banks in the Vatican.

That is ALL the Church is about MONEY VAST WEALTH POWER CONTROL AND FREEDOM TO ABUSE AND USE OTHERS.

Stick on a Roman Collar lads and you are set for life.

Use and abuse and your local Insurance Company will pay for your abuse and you can go on your merry way to your local golf club and don't give a thought to the lives you have ruined.

How can anyone enter a Church any more.

I think we will soon be saying GOD HAS LEFT THE BUILDING - he would not want to taint himself in the presence of these unholy ones who call themselves Priests.

author by Brigid Collins - Manipulated Survivorspublication date Sun Nov 29, 2009 00:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

By the look of things THE CHURCH HAVE EVEN SCREWED THEIR INSURERS knowing what was coming down the tracks.

IS THAT NOT DISHONEST?

IS IT NOT A FORM OF FRAUD?

IS IT NOT LIKE PLACING A BET WHEN THE CHURCH ALREADY KNEW THE RESULTS?

Shame on ALL THE DISHONEST LYING men in the Church.

No wonder the ordinary folk pay such high premiums for their life and household insurance when the CHURCH can lie and screw their way through millions like that DISHONESTLY without losing a nights sleep.

How foolish of the Insurance Companies to keep throwing money at these rotten Priests to defend them as well as pay compensation.

Isn't it time they told them they are so corrupt they are UNINSURABLE like those who live in flood plains.

Wake up insurance companies. The Church and the Vatican are fooling the lot of us. Let them sell some of their treasures and pay up their debts like the rest of us. Why should the Insurance Companies be sent to the wall paying for abusers and PERVERTS.

author by Kevin Flanaganpublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 13:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I went to Government Publications Office in Molesworth St yesterday to obtain a copy of the Murray Report . I was told that the printed version of the report isn't available . It was there on the day of the launch of the report last week for the press but if you weren't there you couldn't get a copy and will have to wait until next week by which time more copies will be ready. Anyone without access to the internet will have to wait until next week - two weeks after the official launch . The press and media , the lawyers and of course the bishops will have got the chance to read it - Archbishop Martin got his copy in July - but not me .

author by Brigid Collins - Manipulated Survivorspublication date Tue Dec 01, 2009 13:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This is not a surprise at all that the ordinary person cannot get a copy of the report.

If you are not a member of the Clergy or one of their in crowd then you join the line of Lepers and 2nd class citizens and stand and wait until they deem you fit to receive it.

Nothing new there. Most of us in their eyes are in the category or Lepers, 2nd class citizens, rejects etc.

author by Kevin Flanaganpublication date Thu Dec 03, 2009 15:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Erdmund Rice International (ERI) was founded jointly by two Roman Catholic religious congregations: the Christian Brothers and the Presentation Brothers. It was registered as a legal entity in 2007.

The following is from the ERI website :

“Edmund Rice International (ERI( is a non-governmental organisation (NGO) committed to working for children and young people who are marginalised because of poverty, lack of access to education, legal status environmental degradation digression or involvement in armed conflict. This work involves engagement with the change-makers at the international level in order to bring issues and situations to the attention of the international community at the United Nations in New York and Geneva.”

Here is another quote from the ERI site . The same organization that beat my brother up fifty years ago and abused thousands of other children in its care has set up an organization to front for them which is now boasting about its commitment to the rights of the child :

“This year, 2009, is a landmark year for anyone promoting the rights of the child. We are celebrating later this year, in November, the Twentieth Anniversary of the Convention on the Rights of the Child. In UN speak, a Convention is just about as strong a legal text one can envisage. It has greater authoritative and binding force than a Declaration. So, the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC) is an important legal instrument at the international level, one that supports initiatives on behalf of children and young people.”

The organizers of the public meeting will be raising the ERI involvement in advocating children's rights as a matter of urgency and are asking international contacts to do the same . We must not allow the Christian Brothers to simply re-brand themselves . The ERI site does not mention the dirty history of the Christian Brother order at all .The protection of the rights of the child in third world countries can surely not be left to this Edmund Rice International.
Link to the ERI site :
http://www.edmundriceinternational.org/

author by trevorpublication date Fri Dec 04, 2009 14:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Catholic religious order of Christian Brothers in Australia has admitted that when Brothers are found to have committed a child-sex offence, they are not expelled from the Order. Sexually-abusive Brothers know, in advance, that they will be protected.

From the Australian BROKEN RITES website :

A Broken Rites researcher was present in the Melbourne County Court in July 1996, taking notes, when Brother Edward Dowlan was jailed for indecently assaulting boys in Victorian Catholic schools. During final pre-sentence submissions by the defence, a senior member of the Christian Brothers leadership (Brother Peter William Dowling, not to be confused with the prisoner Edward Dowlan) told the court that the Christian Brothers “have no policy of excluding a convicted person” from the Order. Therefore, he said, Ted Dowlan would continue to be a member of the Christian Brothers, despite his conviction, “and we will continue to support him.”
Court documents indicated that the Christian Brothers administration knew about Brother Dowlan's offences early in his career but the Order continued to give him access to children.
The order also said that another Christian Brother Charles Best, who was convicted in the same court (and in the same month) as Brother Dowlan for child-sex offencesl would not be expelled from the order.
After the jailing of Edward Dowlan, Broken Rites showed its notes to a Melbourne journalist. The journalist asked the Christian Brothers' provincial superior for Victoria and Tasmania (Brother Michael Godfrey) to comment. Next day, the newspaper quoted Godfrey as confirming that Dowlan would not be expelled from the Order, but he would be offered work in “new ministries” of the Christian Brothers.

The court was told that Christian Brothers are now less involved in school-teaching. Most Christian Brothers now belong to "outreach" ministries, working with hospital patients, prisoners, Aborigines, young people in trouble, the disabled and missions in Third World countries.
http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/page122-dow....html
........................

The re-branding of the Christian Brothers as ERI will allow the order to continue with its "outreach" work free from the stigma of sex abuse .

author by kevin flanaganpublication date Mon Dec 07, 2009 17:08author email religiousabusetruth at gmail dot comauthor address author phone 087 269 2524Report this post to the editors

Murray is expected to resign and good riddance , but we insist that criminal charges be brought against the bishops and auxiliary bishops. The gardai don't have to go to Rome (although perhaps Interpol should be brought in ). Cardinal Connell who can be found holed up in the Arcgbishop's palace at Drumcondra knew of the abuse ,refused to act ,moved the abusers from parish to parish and allowed the abuse to continue . That was a crime . Why has he not been charged ?

We have tried to get copies of the Ryan Report but have been told that copies will not be available for six months. This is an absolute disgrace. I tried to raise the inavailability of the Murphy Report with the media last week but couldn't get any response . Researchers from the Joe Duffy show and Gerry Ryan promised to get back to me but have not .

Thanks to all who have emailed their support . We are in this for the long haul and it is very important for us to know that the people of Ireland are behind us .

author by kathy - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3161199&id=18601900315publication date Tue Dec 08, 2009 01:12author address author phone Report this post to the editors

the abuse..needs to stop.....

Related Link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3161199&id=186019003156#/pages/In-honer-of-Micky-Flanaganthe-boy-with-the-broken-arm-1954/186019003156
author by Mero - nonepublication date Tue Dec 08, 2009 02:23author email patmernie at eircom dot netauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors



The nickname of the brother who broke Ickey Flanagans arm was "The Scorpion" who was
a Brother in Marino School on Griffith Avenue. He also broke two of my nails for not coming to
school on Sunday for religious education. I had no redress as a child . In 1949 you could tell no
one what was wrong, you had nowhere to turn to Everything was bottled up. These were the "elite"
These were the the people we were supposed to look up to, These were what we were
supposed to emulate and be delighted that they had given their lives to point us in the right
direction." What an Illusion", Should there be a future, I as a human being would not wish
to be mentioned in the same breath as them. I wish no harm to any human but I am sorry they
let Humanity down. Those who defended them so much should look at themselves, and ask
"Is This Religion" If it is I cannot defend " IT " Peace to " ALL "

author by Brigid Collins - Manipulated Survivorspublication date Wed Dec 09, 2009 01:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

For those who cannot get copies of the Dublin Diocesan report you can go to the Clerical Whispers website where you can download all of the abuse reports prior to the Dublin Diocesan Report along with THE CURRENT DUBLIN DIOCESAN REPORT.

It is listed there in 3 parts

Dublin Report (Beginning)
Dublin Report Part 1
Dublin Report Part 2

You can also read responses by the Clergy to all of the reports and their radio interviews etc.

All of these items are listed on the right hand side of the Clerical Whispers Home Page.

There are also polls being taken about

resignations of Bishops,

should there be an audit in every Diocese

should the Papal Nuncio be expelled etc.

Do vote while you are on the website.

Related Link: http://www.clericalwhispers.ie
author by Robert Mpublication date Wed Dec 09, 2009 22:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As a man who was once proud to be rc and Irish these so-called followers of Christ turned me off faith, and for people to imply that being rc must go hand in hand with Irish nationality is more than an insult. My family and friends have been deeply affected by what has happened.
The vatican knew many years that these crimes were going on and almost if not all bishops also.
This wicked organization does not represent me as an Irishman or a Christian and should not be called 'the church' any longer but a religious entity!
Who is worse the one who abused or the one who knew and said nothing?? ask me as a victim or any other victim. You know the answer. Time now for this island to get up and busy in seeing this to the end!! we are waking up but need to do more, much more to punish this evil religious entity.
Thank you,
Robert m

author by kevin flanaganpublication date Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Mero
Thanks very much for that important information. We hadn't heard the Scorpion name before and have a different nickname for another one of the Brothers at Artane who was involved in the beating . My family is very interested in following up on all these leads . We want to know all the past connections that allowed this abuse to take place in the first place , but also all the ongoing connections that prevent us from knowing the full truth fifty years on.The government has colluded with the church authorities to keep these names secret . That we believe is an infringement of our rights as a family . Abused people are correctly given the right to anonymity in court proceeding. The abusers should not be dealt with in the same way -as if they were the victims . They must be named and shamed .

author by Robert Mpublication date Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

these were pedophile rings and this is organized crime!!!

to read in an earlier comment how much assets/finance the rc organization has handled in the past so many years is a disgrace when to hear that the Magadline Laundries are not on the redress board and that only pittance has been offered so far in compensation and that the taxpayer will have to pay also for the abuse by this criminal group being called the church!!

serious action needs to be taken, these evil villains need to be charged and compensation given to those in the laundries!!
Robert~

author by Disgustedpublication date Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Kevin. Re: "infringement of our rights as a family" (at Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:17)

It's much more than that, as it's also "perverting the course of justice" -- which, when it suits the guards, our legal profession, and our Government, is treated by them as an extremely serious criminal offence, as it should ALWAYS be, and entirely regardless of who the perpetrators of such crimes are.

According to Wikipedia "perverting the course of justice" is a "common-law offence carrying a maximum sentence of life imprisonment" - please see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverting_the_course_of_j...stice

Then, in addition, there's also the matter of extremely serious criminal offences relating to such issues as "neglect of duty", "dereliction of duty", and so on.

The "book" (of law) needs to be thrown at them.

The sordid business of "elites" allowing "elites" to commit crime with impunity has to be brought to an end.

Otherwise, there can NEVER be any genuine justice in our society.

author by trevorpublication date Thu Dec 10, 2009 14:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The sordid business of "elites" allowing "elites" to commit crime with impunity has to be brought to an end. ."

Agree totally , the hypocrisy that goes along with the inequality is particularly sickening . How are these elites going to be brought to book though when the justice system is run by the elite as well - the rich lawyers and judges who cross the Liffy from the south side to the north every day to administer justice to the poor.

author by kevin flanaganpublication date Thu Dec 10, 2009 14:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We have been getting a lot of support so have decided to change the date and venue of the meeting . We think that it would be better and fairer to hold the meeting at a central Dublin location instead . The public meeting will now take place on Dec 24 . Location : Marlborough St outside the Department of Education opposite the Pro-Cathederal . Time midnight - to coincide with the celebration of midnight mass by the Archbishop of Dublin . A symbolic gesture will be made at the public meeting .

author by Robertpublication date Fri Dec 11, 2009 16:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

time to spread the word and join the cause. there are those still trying to sweep this under the carpet, lets see those responsible put in prison where they belong!
thanks,
Robert~

author by trevorpublication date Fri Dec 11, 2009 17:26author address author phone Report this post to the editors

We need to internationalise this Robbie. THe Christian Bros started of in Ireland . The people of Ireland have a serious responsibility to children in countries where the history of the order is not known .
According to its website the Christian Bs in the US have
“ accepted the call to evangalize youth within the mission of the catholic church and we complete this work primarily in schools where the Members minister.

In other words it's back to business with "safeguards in place".

Safeguards were promised fifty years ago .

"This is an isolated incident ,it can only happen again as an accident" .........Minister of Education Moylan speaking to the Dail in 1954 referring to the assault on Micky Flanagan"
http://www.ercbna.org/Protection/index.asp

Praesidium is the private security company the Christian Brothers in North America uses to vet its employees .
This is the sort of business-speak Prasaedium uses to sell itself on its own website .Note that child abuse alllegations are
referred to as devastating for the organization involved ,not the children:

"Caring for people is serious business. And with all the issues you face, nothing can be more devastating to your organization than an incident or allegation of abuse by an employee, volunteer, member of the clergy, or by another program participant."

http://www.praesidiuminc.com/

The Christian Brothers who only ten years ago said on record that they would employ people previously convicted of child abuse have no "business" to be engaged in the education of children . One strike and you're out should be the rule for child abusers and any organization that consciously employed child abusers in the past .

author by kevinpublication date Fri Dec 11, 2009 17:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This is a quote from the same Dail debate .

"This is an isolated incident. I wish to express my sympathy to the parents of the child and I can assure them that nothing of the like will happen again. While giving this as a guarantee to parents and knowing the difficult conditions under which the school is run, I would point out to parents that any guarantee I give them of full protection for their children is no licence to any of the children to do what they like"

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0145/D.0145.1....html

author by Con Carrollpublication date Fri Dec 11, 2009 22:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

there is no doubt, the response to Murphy report. from the catholic bishops, Winter conference is criminal
we have the good guy role played by Archbishop Diarmuid Martin taking on the rest. it is like been interrogated by the cops, who play Im the good cop watch out for the other he is the one who is heavy
one should read Colm O Gorman, article, Irish Times, Wednesday 9. Colm article points to the collective criminality of bishops appointed to diocese. not 1 or 2.
then we have Diarmud Martin, Cardinal Sean Brady. travelling to Rome. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. pope Benedict. prefect of congregation doctrine and faith. 1990's drafted a document warning of the consequences of those within church authority's who broke ranks. to report clergy who were involved in raping of children to state authorities
one should listen to Fr Tom Doyle, American , canon lawyer. who worked in vatican embassy. who walked out to work with survivors in America.who also worked with one in four in Dublin.

lets not ignore the role of ex Minister of education Mary Hanafin, who travelled to Rome for beatification of Christian brothers founder, along woth another gov rep. Mary Hanafin. Noel Dempsey. political interference, along with dep of education non co-opeartion led to the resignation of justice Mary Laffoy.
two other Irish celebrities were appointed to board of Christian brothers financial wealth.to stop people from getting what is there right. justice Peter Kelly. pd member, Pat Cox.
Mary Laffoy was about to summon Cardinal Desmond o Connell. to commission 2003/2004. along with senior members of dep of health/children.

author by PaedofinderGeneralpublication date Sat Dec 12, 2009 01:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Two Tykes and you're out!

Everyone is making a big deal about these guys resigning. Ok, they resign. then what?
Who cares whether they resign or not. Give them custodial prison sentences. Anything less is just a wrist slap and a get out.

They just gave maura harrington 9 months hard time for messing with a net worth 160 euro.
Why aren't these paedo's and their facilitators going to mountjoy before maura who hurt nobody's kids?

Sick fucked up little country or what?

author by kevin flanagan - public meetingpublication date Sat Dec 12, 2009 14:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

to whom it may concern..it has come to my attention that we as law biding citizens in this small country that it may be possible to arrest and detain any person or persons who comited vile acts of abuse on the children of this land,,we all know sex and physical abuse against children is against the law,,can we make a citizans arrest,im not sure..but i am currently in talks with my legal team about this matter..so if it is possible i will have no problem helping our fine police service in rounding up these criminals,,so clerics beware if i can im coming to get you all..this i pledge on behalf of my brother that you and yours will stand in the lower dock for your crimes..this i pledge to all you abusers out there,priests,brothers,bishops,nuns..ect..the net is closing..im coming to get you...

author by kevin flanagan - survivors of child abusepublication date Mon Dec 14, 2009 01:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

hi i am starting a 7day fast out side the GPO FROM THURSDAY 17 -24 callin for all the CRIMIALS IN THE MURPHY REPORT TO BE CHARGED WITH CONCELING THE CRIMEOF CHILD ABUSE AGANIST THE CHILDREN OF THE NATION AND WE ARE CALLIN ON PEOPLE OF THE STATE KEVIN FLANAGAN

author by Robert Mpublication date Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

on behalf of my family your brother and the many thousands abused, I will be there supporting you Kevin and will have some others join in the cause for justice. may all reading these comments show your passion and stand with Kevin and spread the word, encourage others to action and spend an hour or two with Kevin at the GPO.
Robert~

author by Wonderingpublication date Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

By whose authority, and/or by what piece of Republic of Ireland legislation, is our Director of Public Prosecutions (Mr James Hamilton) failing to prosecute the paedophile priests and Christian Brothers in this case?

The excerpt below is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_public_prosecu...tions :

"The Director of Public Prosecutions has been responsible for prosecution, in the name of the People, of all indictable criminal offences in the Republic of Ireland since the enactment of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1974."

author by trevorpublication date Mon Dec 14, 2009 15:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I share your concern, the crimes are obviously indictable. Short of murder, you don’t get anything more serious than this sort of child abuse. From what I know about the law, there is no statute of limitation for criminal offences in Ireland although an area of discretion exists whereby the DPP wouldn't necessarily prosecute minor crimes after a certain amount of time had passed.

Perhaps the DPP and gardai see the offences as minor, but that is not the view held by the vast majority of the population. If the state doesn't prosecute the bishops who continue to cover up for child abusers, and who in the past facilitated abuse by moving known paedophiles on from parish to parish , then there is a danger that people might start to take matters into their own hands.

author by Marypublication date Mon Dec 14, 2009 17:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If the DPP and the members of the gardaí involved believe that the rampant sexual abuse of children by priests and Christian Brothers, over a period of several years, is trivial, I believe they should be instantly dismissed from their jobs.

Immediately afterwards, the DPP and the members of the gardaí involved should then all be charged with one or more criminal offences connected with civil negligence or malpractice.

author by Robert Mpublication date Mon Dec 14, 2009 21:53author address author phone Report this post to the editors

if the pen is mighty then we need to write as well as stand with those getting out and shouting to be heard.
write to people to say that you demand action!

author by paul c - protect our kidspublication date Tue Dec 15, 2009 01:32author email paul.carpenter.111 at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

i just want to say thanks to kevin flanagan for the protest he is going to stage outside the g.p.o..its what this country needs,people who do things,we have enough talkers..i pledge to help kev in anyway possible in his fight for justice,i was abused and nobody fought for me,,if theres any parents reading this,support kevin,,hes doing this to protect your children as well as his own,,a true irishman with morals,im glad to say hes a friend,,so come on people,,lets join forces and help bring this paedophile ring to the ground,there hiding behind your beliefs in the catholic faith,they dont pray to the same god as you and me,,you dont need to go to a church to pray,,defect from the church until they have cleaned it of the evil that hides within its wall,,go to countmeout,,and defect,,the government is doing nothing to bring these scum to justice because it will cost the state money to try them,,if there was revenue to be payed all of them would have been in court by now..show your support,please as decent people join kevin and make a stand,,or are you going to sit back and and let them insult you futher by evading justice,they raped and brutilised our children,they destroyed generations of families,,time for talking is over,,on a personal note for anyone out there that thinks money is kevins motivation for doing this,,you could,nt be further from the truth,,hes the most stand up guy i know,,and hes doing it to protect future generation,,your kids and mine,,kev i salute you and im behind you 100 per cent,,look forward to helping you all i can,,

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