Hundreds march to defend the right to Community Creches

by Sceptic Fri Dec 12, 2008 17:25

Firstly there are not unlimited funds – the funds are borrowed at the margin creating liabilities for future generations. Don’t confuse an open ended liability with an unlimited one.

It is not a matter of discretion in the case of either defending the population or keeping order. A state is failing and looses legitimacy if it cannot fulfil these basic functions of governance. That situation will enable a law breaking minority to undermine the legitimate rights of others to live their lives and go about their business peacefully. This includes blocking roads to prevent others making their way to their place of work which is not peaceful protest. The right to go to work is indeed a right - one which you would deny or ignore in the Shell case - whereas there is no right to a publicly funded crèche in each neighbourhood as you would falsely assert. This is not semantics – rights are actionable things – their existence or otherwise has consequences which is why the term should not be thrown about loosely as it has been in this instance.

Social services are vital of course but it does not follow that a particular crèche scheme in a particular region once part funded must always continue to be so funded irrespective of circumstances.

Because you support the Shell protest and also support the particular crèche scheme does means that the solution to the crèche problem is simply abandoning the Corrib Gas project to the protestors and diverting the money saved in Garda overtime to your crèches. This is not how governance can work though it might accord with your personal “values” and your anarchic tendencies. Why not close down the courts to fund social services? Or the defence forces? In fact very much more is spent from public funds on social services than on law enforcement but the State cannot ignore law enforcement altogether or pick and choose which major threats to public order it can ignore without failing in one of its first order duties. Preserving the peace and defending the citizenry is a much older and higher order function of a polity and these functions, unlike others, can only be discharged by the State. Ultimately must have sovereignty and order before you can provide social or any other services in the territory it purports to govern.

In all of this I am not saying that the prioritizing of public spending in its entirety is correct – we can all identify areas where we think money could be saved. But simplistic and anarchic juxtaposition of the Shell protest and these crèches is a superficial basis for analysis and in fact is not analysis at all but propaganda.

by Mike Joyce Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:42

You are deliberately ignoring the point you yourself brought up- when there are limited resources it becomes a matter of judgement where money is spent.

The current government seems to be able to find unlimited funds to police the legal and legitimate demonstrations against Shell in Mayo, but finds difficulties in paying for adequate care for the young and vulnerable. This is a judgment call that calls in to question whether the resources are really that scarce, and what the underlying reason for starving some sectors of funds really is.

by Sceptic Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:43

On response to “Woman” you are bringing in extraneous matters and not addressing my key point which was not the merits of the demands. I did not say that women or children don’t have rights and I did not comment on the pay of childcare workers. Perhaps such workers are paid poorly and this should be addressed. My point is merely that there is no “right” as such to access to a publicly funded crèche whether community based or otherwise. That you are a woman is irrelevant – this still would not create such a right. There may be good arguments in favour of such a crèche scheme but still it is not a right. One could advocate that there should be a right to access to a crèche but there is not an extant right to defend as implied in the title of the thread. It’s necessary to be precise in ones employment of language. I could argue that there should be a donkey sanctuary in my district but that does make it a right.

As for the drama happening in a corner of North Mayo the problem is being created by an unrepresentative and unattractive collection of protestors. Indeed Sinn Fein made a major issue of this in the last election and got short shrift from the electorate even in Rossport itself. That says it all. If these protestors would stop there would be no need for an expensive policing presence. The upholding of democratically mandated law and order will always be a priority. If Mr. O’Rourke is so concerned about the cost of policing the demonstrations he should use his influence to have them stopped.

by RW Wed Dec 10, 2008 17:50

Does anyone have pictures of the Cork demo, there was nearly 1000 on it.

by woman Wed Dec 10, 2008 16:51

childcare workers are treated like crap because we are women,our pay is low because we are women, our jobs are being taken away because we are women.
To Mr.Sceptic-In the 21st century-Women have rights, Children have rights- So get used to the idea

by Andy Rourke Wed Dec 10, 2008 01:07

The Garda Commissioner admitted that he has budgeted for 150 police officers to be on duty (the vast majority on overtime payments) every day while the Corrib gas pipeline is being installed next spring.

It hasn't even got planning permission, but just in case it does, the government has put the money aside to stop local protests against it.

It's a "priority".

Funny how they can find the "resources" for some things.

by Sceptic Tue Dec 09, 2008 21:44

This is all very fine but while it is ok to agitate for publicly funded crèches or their retention there is no automatic “right” to a crèche as such. Presumably crèches can be subsidized from taxpayers’ funds as resources permit but just now resources are tight. Marching may be fun and a day out etc but it does not get around this resources problem.

by Paula Geraghty Tue Dec 09, 2008 19:31

all images (c)

And they're off!

Inside the Minister's Department

Garda escort, leaving the building

by Rememberme Tue Dec 09, 2008 19:24

Good to see ming the merciless there.