WSM Protest Against Militarism

by Gabhan Gleeson Tue Nov 04, 2008 14:31

This report was made in a personal capacity.

by inniu Tue Nov 04, 2008 16:39

Does it not exist?

by confronted the state Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:32

I'm interested in this.

Where are the pics of the 'protest'?

Where exactly did it take place?

How many were there?

How long did it run?

Come one, the WSM threw a bit of mud at republicans in the run up to the demo, lets see what you guy were made of on the day.

by Andrew Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:13

At least two of your questions are answered in the post (I know your not actually interested in the answers but just engaging in posturing but really you don't need to be so lazy). There is some more detail at http://www.anarchistblackcat.org/viewforum.php?f=40 which I think answers the rest for now, some more personal reports should arrive soon along with a rather dull photo.

The 'criticisms' or republicans you allude to ( http://www.wsm.ie/story/4688 ) were actually political in tone. They didn't really have anything to do with duration, numbers, location or photos. The inability of 'republicans' to respond except on such an apolitical level (with one exception) is staggering and if anything says even more about the state of modern 'republicanism' that the small number mobilized after so much effort do.

by Davy Carlin - Belfast WSM {PC} Wed Nov 05, 2008 15:35

The recent RIR parade through Belfast City Centre has raised many points amongst those deemed the 'wider left' and Republican circles. So I will pen a number of brief personal points as well as giving a personal account of the day.

Firstly I will state that the blame for such a raise in sectarian tensions lays squarely with those who proposed the RIR parade in the first place. As the obvious outcome of such a decision would be the raising of tensions in a still divided city coming to terms with War.

And whether or not other organisations had seen themselves as sectarian or not the reality was that sectarianism would manifest and ascend itself on that day, given the proposed parade.

Indeed I had stated from the onset that the parades would be used to sectarianise the issue, by some. And others of course would bite to it, and so the whole issue of the War in Iraq and Afghanistan would be lost, and directed into the Unionists against Nationalist question and all that that had went before. Of course Imperialism Occupation and Militarism needs to be stood against where ever it is.

And within those who have been active with us since our recent formation in Belfast there are those whose history is not only that of standing against such at a local level. But indeed have given support, marched and stood in solidarity with groups from all the various Republican sections on many issues. This going back many years through to the present -against state repression, collusion, prisoner’s rights, shoot to kill and much more.

Yet our stand was not done only on that issue of opposition to such occupation, state collusion, brutality, militarism and Imperialism in Ireland, in Iraq and Afghanistan. But also against the sectarianism that would flow from it. And that stand would be on the basis of class. Indeed given the retching up of tensions the Belfast WSM took a tactical decision to call our own protest in that regard.

Therefore given nothing had been called to date we took the very important initiative to take that stand. In doing so via the media and other networks, we provided that alternative on the basis of Catholic and Protestant opposed to such. Of course given the real tensions and the historic tool of divide and rule we knew it would be a difficult call, but nevertheless we made the call and stood by it, This despite criticisms and even veiled threats by others.

With that we needed to take a number of factors into account given it was to see the biggest security operation in many years. Therefore the political reasoning for our call also had to take account of tactical considerations on the day. Our stand was not about the politics of out do, given that some recent comments from those at the Eirigi march {was that we had embarked on a ‘Suicide mission’ given we had called our demo in the path of a Loyalist Parade} – but it was about the providing of a class alternative.

Yet, to be honest when the call went out we where not aware that the UDA from the Shankill and such where to march past us. So we provided an alternative meeting point just in case, while on the day we sought to see what was possible.

And so on the day a Comrade and I had drove down the Falls Road past the assembling Sinn Fein contingent at Dunville Park and then at Divis Tower the assembling Erigi group. Given that the road at the bottom of the Falls Road was blocked with police jeeps and cops in riot gear we jumped out of the car and made our way to the city centre.

Although this not before being videoed and pictured by cops as would be regular through out the day. With that we made our way up Castle street towards Tesco’s and had seen the hoards of Loyalists coming down the road past us. Therefore we decided for security reasons to find an alternative venue for our protest. So we went back to the place we had given as an alternative meeting place and slowly a few people had arrived, with stories of others not having got through, etc.

Then a phone call came through from others and I had gone to get them. Firstly I dandered through the Loyalist mobilisation {because I thought that was the only way of getting to the others who where getting understandably really nervous} but my path was blocked at the very end by barriers that had been erected. So I went back and went through the side streets of the Lower Falls which held many more cops and jeeps as well as water cannon trucks. And so I went past them and past where the RIR where assembling, past some loyalists, then past the place where the SF parade was to come. Then I went through more police lines and after much searching had found one other person from another organisation who had come in to join us.

On our way back he stated how this place looked like Genoa, {such was the security} and we had a chat about how the both of us at the Anti Globalisation protests in Genoa had charged the fence with a huge gate we ‘may’ have pulled out of the ground. Seeking then with it to take down the fence, before we where water cannoned, gassed, and baton charged for our endeavours.

Arriving back we seen that the Eirgi parade had been stopped by the rows of Riot Cops and jeeps, as another phone call came through, {and the tensions felt} that another half a dozen comrades where stuck right in the middle of a Loyalist mobilisation including that of the UDA. So I and another comrade went back for them through the path that I had found and also this time watched as the Sinn Fein march had just gone by quiet and dignified with many holding pictures of loved ones killed and murdered by the state. This though with the sounds of hundreds of loyalists jeering and shouting sectarian vile from above buildings and upon paths and roads.

And so getting back to the pre arranged stop {that some thought understandably with their lives and bodies still intact} we carried out our small but brief demo, and joined by a couple of members of the SWP we made our point.

And so little real trouble kicked of that day, {although the potential for such was very real with also 30000 plus supporters of the troops on the streets} - yet it was essential that such an alternative was provided. And while the political reasoning for such a stand was correct, better co- ordination and preparation needed, was a lesson we had drawn from such in discussion afterwards

by Gabhan Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:23

Picture of the WSM Banner in Belfast on the day.

by inniu Thu Nov 06, 2008 13:53

Davy,

"Firstly I will state that the blame for such a raise in sectarian tensions lays squarely with those who proposed the RIR parade in the first place. As the obvious outcome of such a decision would be the raising of tensions in a still divided city coming to terms with War."
That is the nature of the British state in Ireland. It is not an issue of a parade but a wider issue of British rule in Ireland and elsewhere.

"Indeed I had stated from the onset that the parades would be used to sectarianise the issue, by some. And others of course would bite to it,"
Who? What was sectarian about the eirigi, IRSP/32CSM/RNU and SF protests?

"and so the whole issue of the War in Iraq and Afghanistan would be lost, and directed into the Unionists against Nationalist question and all that that had went before. Of course Imperialism Occupation and Militarism needs to be stood against where ever it is."
You've contradicted yourself here Davy. Ignore one occupation to protest against another?

Nothing to say from the rest of your post, as with all your writing, you descended into self-serving rhetoric.

by Ceardchumann - Nil aon inniu Thu Nov 06, 2008 14:16

Gabhan, when you say the march couldn’t have happened across the water or it would have met widespread resistence, didn’t the march through Shrewsbury last month? Ity’s not that I’m against your point but grandiose statements like that alienate rather then energise people.

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/PICTURE-GALLERY-Shrews...89.jp

Davy, your writing, as ever, is hilarious. However asides from pointing out there’d be sectarian tensions (there’s sectarian tensions surrounding a 16 year old lad in XFactor ffs) and telling us how you went and got a mate from the bus station what else did you see at the demo? Surely the 30,000 odd people who turned out to meet the working class lads in the RIR aren’t all lumpin proles? Is there any hope of class consciousness in pro-British circles in the North?

PS where was that photo taken, I walk Castle Street twice a day (and indeed was on it on Sunday morning last) and can’t think of any red brick buildings with modern windows – only the carpark past the celtic theamed chipper and all those chucky pubs?

And by the way the dogs in the street knew that Jackie’s boys would be out a walking that day, why’d you think they put so much effort into putting up those yellow ribbon posters?

by Davy Carlin Thu Nov 06, 2008 16:41

Many years ago I would have bitten to the mindset of such comments, not any more, {an aul hand now} more especially with a wee read through your blog - one does tend to get a ‘Greater’ understanding of what you’re about.

My points as I have made, of course, - stand – in their entirety

A bit of advice though -having a blog almost simply to attack others {on the left} is not unusual, but you do need to have more subjects also, if you do not want to be seen as Sectarian {politically} by many right from the very onset.

Secondly some of your points seem like they have been read {and then written} straight out of a text book {about Ireland} -and so at times {and to be honest} you seem like someone reciting their course work. And indeed reciting to many who already have lived through and know such – and more}

Indeed it is not all as Black and White – as the books say

And so, I will leave others to debate u {and u would be worth a debate for those wishing to learn how to take on such a mindset} -as that learning process in responding to such – and so learning off such, is long over for me {but worthwhile for others}.

And on you point of the war and the history of Imperialism in Ireland

Just a few links {on this site} for readers to read along with comments, to get some of -The Reality of War and Imperialism. {Just read-through the various link after each article}

Link - http://www.indymedia.ie/article/73973
Link - http://www.indymedia.ie/article/84215

And some working class actions amongst other such.

Link - http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76495

Signing off

by inniu Thu Nov 06, 2008 18:56

...are you ever going to address the points instead of skirting around them?

by Ciaron - Catholic Worker/Ploughshares Sun Nov 09, 2008 19:06

Response to three threads of reports on last week's anti-war demonstrationsin Belfast

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/89724&comment_limit=0&c...38432