Emergency legislation introduced to underwrite Irish banks

by spendthrift Tue Sep 30, 2008 16:55

It seems that the introduction of the new law has now been put back to 7PM.

by Frank Tue Sep 30, 2008 21:28

Eamonn Gilmore made a valid point concerning the charge the government will levy on the Banks for underwriting their depositors cash. Won't the Banks simply pass that charge onto the customer?

by frankly Tue Sep 30, 2008 23:43

Too true, Frank. The banks have always been in business to make money, lots of it. All government levies, stamp duty charges and VAT impositions get passed on to the customers, the business people thus becoming tax collectors for government. The Building Societies were set up over a hundred years ago as so-called Friendly Societies to help middle-income punters get around the standoffish attitudes of banks towards people who struggled to find house mortgages. In recent decades the building societies have gone away from their simple aims of making easier mortgages available; they have been investing in prestige office buildings that bring in big rental profits. Credit Unions have been sinking a lot of their depositors' funds into upmarket buildings even in small towns, but at least they continue to lend money at commendable reduced rates and cancel outstanding debts when a borrower dies. The CUs are still the best financial institution for the small punter both rural and urban. The astute middle- and lower-middle classes have been involved in the credit unions because they know the value.

LETS area mutual self-help schemes in which members trade skills, services and surplus possessions in exchange for goods and labour have been tried as an alternative to the money system, with mixed results. In Canada and elsewhere, where there may be strong localised social solidarity cultures and work ethics, LETS have thrived. Alas some LETS have been tried badly and failed in Ireland.

It is ironic to see non-interventionist small government ideologies being temporarily cast aside in the USA and Europe as governments try desperately to tackle the financial meltdown. But Frank is right: there is no such thing as free money. We pay for it in the end; the lower income families feel the pinch more when it comes to paying rent and electricity bills and children's schoolbooks and uniforms.

by enraged taxpayer Wed Oct 01, 2008 16:15

This is a developer/builder bank. Why is this instituation being included in the deal. No doubt probably something to do with the "tint" at Galway.

by enraged taxpayer Wed Oct 01, 2008 17:36

Just heard Minister Ryan defend bailing out the rotten loans of greedy developers by hard-pressed taxpayers. Might as well go the whole hog now and pitch a green "tint" at the races next august!!!

by brian Wed Oct 01, 2008 22:14

You cannot help thinking that this bailout is operating in the exact same way as the patriot act was passed in the US, and as the various public order type acts were passed after Omagh etc. in the UK and Ireland. Some people now reckon that in their haste to pass these acts they abolished most of the accepted liberties that had always existed in western countries, and now it seems they are moving to control commercial life in much the same way? Anyway decide in haste and repent at leisure might be the watchword here, because it seems that there are two big potential problems here:
1) The Irish state could be taking on so much debt here that it itself could go under, bearing in mind that the Irish government is also going into the credit markets looking for, ever larger, sums of money to plug the hole in the Irish budget deficit. If a lack of confidence in the Irish state's credit worthiness starts to creep in then the whole country could find itself in the same position as the banks are in now. This is possible when you consider the huge sums of money in question, the potential liability is reckoned to be 400 billion euro. To put that in context the US House of Representatives baulked at committing their taxpayers to paying out 700 billion, and thats a much larger country than ours. Of course we are told that the Irish banks have massive assets and that there is no problem here, more than enough to cover liabilites, but this view is not shared at all by many economists like Morgan Kelly and Bernard Waters in the Irish Independent today:
"The government's decision to unconditionally guarantee Irish bank deposits and inter-bank loans exposes the taxpayer to potentially huge risks. With property prices still falling, it is likely that the government's deposit guarantee will be called upon sooner rather than later.

Between them, the Irish banks owe their depositors, other banks and bondholders almost €400bn. That's more than twice the value of our total annual economic output and 10 times the total national debt. "
(http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/state-bailout-....html)

2) The other point is that what seems to be happening is that this State, copying the US, is taking over the commercial life of the country (because the banks control, in some shape or form, most private businesses and private property like land and houses etc.) So from now on you can expect private industry to operate in the same bureaucratised way as the Irish transport or health services, not good news I would suggest? Its fascinating that it seems that George Bush is not a neocon at all, he is a neo com as he creates the first neo communist country!

by Eine Kleine Thu Oct 02, 2008 01:26

In he recent book The Shock Doctrine, Naomi Klein pointed out that some people seek to use events like wars and natural disasters to shake up the accepted way of doing things, and use the uncertainty and novelty of situations to create circumstances which are favourable to their interests, often at the expense of the protections fo weaker parts of the societies they operate in.

Protections from them.

by Ray - WSM (pers cap) Thu Oct 02, 2008 13:28

...it's about saving the wealth and privileges of the people who own and benefit from the banking system. The gombeen dictatorship of football politicians (Vote Rovers! Or else Rangers will get in!) that misrepresent us issue a massive guarantee to the Irish banking system in return for sweet FA (and that don't stand for Football Association either). Well, it wouldn't do to have our rich suffer, after all aren't they the vanguard of Ireland Inc., and sure we'd look third- or fourth-rate in the eyes of our betters abroad if we allowed all our bank shareholders (and major concrete tycoons) to become so distressed as to be down to their last ten million euro. 'We' have done this before for the banking system (the ICI scam AIB ran in the mid-1980s) and also for the beef industry (that nice Mr. Goodman) - and once again Ireland's rich have recourse to 'our' generosity.

Don't expect the banks and their creditors/debtors not to use the facility our misgovernment is extending them. The Irish misgovernment is in effect telling the banking system (and the legions of parasites hiding inside it) 'Don't worry, continue going as you are, you can mess up as much as you like and we'll come along and clean up after you. It won't cost you a thing, we'll stiff Joe Taxpayer with the tab!'. The haste with which this legislation was brought in is also so suspicious - compare with the delays, probings, and modifications to the similar legislation about to be enacted in the USA.

Vincent 'Fab Vinnie' Browne's take on the Irish banking 'guarantee' in today's Irish Times - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1001/1....html

by Sammi Ashraf Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:48

At times like these it's useful to look around and take stock of how others are dealing with their problems and see if we can learn anything from them.

" Islamic Banks Unaffected by Global Financial Crisis "

Riyadh, Asharq Al-Awsat- A number of experts and officials of Islamic banks and financial institutions have confirmed that Islamic banks have not been affected by the global financial crisis, and that any effects would be limited due to the nature of Islamic banking.

Experts told Asharq Al-Awsat that Islamic banks are untouched by the current crisis due to the nature of Islamic banking especially that it does not deal in debt trading and distances itself from market speculation that takes place in European and American banks.

Yousif predicted that this global crisis will continue for two years or more. He argued that Islamic banks have become a safe haven for secured liquidity and are in a good position. The success of Islamic banking will lead to serious consideration of Islamic economics, which continues to realize numerous achievements, as a viable alternative to the current global economic system which continues to be hit by these crises.

http://www.asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=6...14245

It is reported that a high level think -tank comprising economists , bankers, army officials and politicains having considered the simple revelations revealed through Islamic Banking Methods, have made a few recommendations on how Western Institutions and governments should react to the information ;

Islamic Banks are a threat to democracy all over the world

Islamic Bankers are terrorists and so are their customers.

The money in Islamic Banks funds terrorism.

Lebanon should be bombed again.

Osama Bin Laden came back to life again but then proceeded to die another horrible death.

Iran is evil.

by Misha - Gods World Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:51

So interesting to read.
We learn something NEW each and every New Day

by Gus Friend Sun Oct 05, 2008 18:15

It would be schadenfreude indeed if the Wests attempts to prove that western judeo-Christian economic capitalism was the model for world economic order actually led to an Islamic banking system being introduced internaitonally. The zionits would rather fall on their swords i think. After making sure their swords fell on as many muslims possible first, that is.

Did Zionist ubertactics bring about the accidental End of the Economic World ?

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/credit-crunch-or-...unch/

Credit Crunch or Rather Zio Punch?

" As the picture of the current economy disaster becomes ever more clear, it becomes rather obvious, to me at least, that the ideology and the people who are directly responsible for the mass killing of millions of Iraqis and the displacement of many other millions, the people who keep the Palestinians starved behind walls, are unfortunately very much the same people who are responsible for a class genocide of millions of disenfranchised Americans who are now on the brink of total dispossession. "