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Lockdown Skeptics

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Al Qaida Claim Bhutto Assasination

category international | miscellaneous | news report author Friday December 28, 2007 02:19author by Joe Report this post to the editors

Bhutto was taking US war to al Qaida

“We terminated the most precious American asset which vowed to defeat the mujahadeen,” Al-Qaeda’s commander and main spokesperson Mustafa Abu Al-Yazid told Adnkronos International (AKI) in a phone call from an unknown location, speaking in faltering English. Al-Yazid is the main al-Qaeda commander in Afghanistan.

Bhutto had just addressed a rally on Thursday in Rawalpindi when a lone attacker shot her in the head and detonated a bomb. 20 other Bhutto supporters were killed in the attack and severals injured.

Bhutto was leading a US offensive against al Qaida in Pakistan and Afghanistan which was to be greatly boulstered early next year.



These plans are now uncertain as Pakistan has become unstable. Analysts are wondering what al Qaida has planned to deal with the political fall out of the assasination. As we saw in Madrid, al Qaida always uses it's attacks to maximise the political effect and seldom carries out it's operations without a total policy.

Once again al Qaida has severly disrupted US Imperial plans for the region.

author by Scepticpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The US has no "imperialist" designs in the region. Just because Bhutto was pro western and realised that Al Queda/Taliban elements had to be fought should not mean that you have to go to the extremes of supporting Al Queda. The latter is a murderous obscurantist mass terror cult. If the Ismlamist succeed in overthrowing the Pakistani State or undermining it sufficiently to make it fail all will be lost in a bloody vortex of chaos. There is a common interest in the west and in the pro democratic forces in Pakistan in defeating Ismlamist terror. Taking succour in US discomfiture at the success of terrorists in killing such a prominent democratic and popular leader in a very short sighted view. Al Queda are the mortal enemies of civilisation. Because they are the also the enemies of George Bush does not justify making excuses for them.

author by Ricky - Orange Orderpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:58author email gawleyr at aol dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Benazir Bhutto- A diamond in a mountain of coal. Onward allies of George Bush and true freedoom and smash the wicked zealots who extinguished this beautiful flame that briefly shone in a dark place.

author by Coilín - Self-Appointed Activists, Thinkers & Citizens of Irelandpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 13:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Unfortunately, this also serves as a good description of Mr Bush's bizarre interpretation of Christianity, in which he alleges that God is guiding him throughout the imperialistic wars he has launched in Afghanistan and Iraq.

NB: The following definition of "imperialism" serves as a very accurate description of US policy in many countries around the world, including Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan:
"broadly, the extension of rule or influence by one government, nation, or society over another."

While I have great sympathy for the people of the United States, terrorised by their own federal government's fear-mongering, and even greater sympathy for the peoples of countries where the US is exerting undue influence through both diplomatic and military means, I think most Irish people probably have about an equal abhorrence for the cowardly, violent, aggressive behaviour of Al-Qaeda in instances like this and the cowardly, violent, aggressive behaviour of the United States in its bombing wars and torture of suspected terrorists.

Nollaig faoi shéan agus athbhliain faoi shiocháin duit.

author by Scepticpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 14:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

This latest contribution is ranting. The Afghanistan campaign of 2001 was endorsed by the UN as a legitimate and lawful response to the terror attacks on the US. Hyperbole about the Bush is unnecessary.

Unlike the terrorists or the Taliban, Bhutto was putting her programme before the people in an election. It was up to the people to decide and they have now been disenfranchised in a sense by the assassination. But you cannot see beyond “Bush with or against”. That is what is very corrupting about much of the dialectic of today’s western far left.

Bhutto may have had her failings but she was on the side of democracy against dictatorship and on the side of moderation against extremism. You are so blinded by your Bush phobia that you have put yourself on the other side of each of these questions as well as siding with the terrorists. I presume you have no problem with the hundred plus bystanders killed in the two assassination attempts since Bhutto’s return?

In your hatred and disdain for Bush you have turned into an apologist for the mass murder of innocents in Pakistan.

author by corruptpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 16:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

What is the 'Far Left' skeptic- cos I know only one other person who uses that sobriquet
and he is a green. ?

If you don't like the site- its simple- stop contributing.

author by gosimeonpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 16:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I agree totally with Sceptic.

This lady was murdered because she wanted a proper democracy and wanted something the local Islamic extremists did not want. That's why they claim to have killed her.

Yet, some on here and elsewhere are so obsessed with Bush and hating anybody that does not hate him, that they would rather overlook this attack on democracy and human rights as it does not suit their views and personal politics. Pretty pathetic really.

author by Guypublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 19:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I don't see how it is possible to call the Qaida cowardly when they use themselves as human bombs if it is necessary. I think it would be more apt to call the US Military 'Cowards' when they launch missiles and bombs from planes, ships and tanks without even seeing the women and children they kill.

How about the cowardice of Ms Bhuttos party supporters who are now engaged in the Cowardly destruction of property in Pakistan. They are acting in large mobs like cowards do, and they have even stooped to attacking hospitals.


Mobs of her supporters have been looting and destroying Pakistan in the most cowardly fashion. They are burning any building they can set alight, destroying cars and buses, and even beating policemen to death.


This is the gang Ms Bhutto and the US wanted to empower? This cowardly mob.

The US had hoped to use Ms Bhutto to further their Imperialist plans for the region. Senators Arlen Specter and Patrick Kennedy had met with her only hours before she was killed, as had the Afghani Puppet Karsai. Spectre said, "Our foreign policy had relied on her presence as a stabilizing force.......her loss is a setback.... we have to regroup"

The assassination has dealt a severe blow to US efforts to direct an anti-Taliban mob comprised of her supporters, backed with US money and intelligence.

Al Qaida is reaping a second reward from her assasination in that Musharraf is also severely damaged. The billions of US dollars pumped into Pakistan since 11/9 are down the scuppers now. The main objectives of many decades of US Foreign Policy have failed. Defeated by al Qaida.

I think it will be several months before the full immensity of this assasination is realised. The US put all it's eggs in one basket and Osama just smashed their basket.

author by crookstownpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 20:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sceptic is right that al-qaeda is a vicious cult. But the U.S supported the most fanatic elements in Pakistan and Afghanistan in order to fight the Soviets in the 1980s.

Indeed when this jihad was exported to Chechnya the Americans could barely contain their glee.

Chechens were fanatical fighters for al-qaeda in afganistan.

The neocons even set up a "committee for peace in the Caucasus'. to advance the breakup of Russia.

U.S. recklessness is now coming back to haunt them

Related Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1299318,00.html
author by Scepticpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 21:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Don’ be too swayed about Guardian articles about Chechnya and neocon conspiracies there – there is not much substance in that. The boldly mayhem and carnage of Chechnya was Moscow’s doing on its own.

Cowardly: Democratic leaders have to go before people to contest elections. They will sometimes get assassinated doing so as the examples of Rajv Gandhi, Bobby Kennedy and Ms. Bhutto shows. They are the courageous ones especially Bhutto who put herself under hazard in a very volatile and violent situation. The terrorists don’t have to care about their lack of majority support or their lack of scruples – it is enough to kill the moderate leaders and destroy what others are trying to build or defend. The terror leader who hides in the shadows and sends out those he has indoctrinated with an Islamist death cult is the cowardly one.

Afghanistan in the 1980’s - the AQ tendency did not begin until the 1990s after which the Afghan war was over. Even if there is blowback over support for the mujahedeen against the USSR in the 1980s that does not mean that it was wrong to pursue that policy then and not right to resist AQ now. The AQ tendency is a very much a foreign and minority one in Afghanistan. Afghan civil society was so weak in 1980 that only a movement under an Islamic banner could have rallied resistance. Besides the villains of the peace were the Soviets who had no business trying to take over Afghanistan in the first place.

It is very easy to ignore or not to know one of the unfortunate eternal truths of geopolitics in dangerous times and the Cold War were very dangerous times indeed. Namely: YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO CHOOSE YOUR FRIENDS BUT YOU CANNOT CHOOSE WHOM YOU HAVE TO DO BUSINESS WITH - unsavoury or volatile as they might be. It is easy to preach, moralize, condemn, ostracise, criminalize the US from the luxury of a swivel chair in Ranelagh. You are in the safety of Western Europe - one of the safest and stable parts of the world like this one. Made safe moreover by the blood and treasure of Americans.

author by crookstownpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 22:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The Afghan Arabs trained by the CIA and british SAS caused chaos when they returned to their home countries , literally hundreds of thousands died in Algeria, afganistan Chechnya and other places.

Fanatics attacked indian forces in Kashmir using Stinger missiles from the US.

In Chechnya, they carried out Beslan, I haven't the slightest sympathy for these fanatics, but the role of America and Britain should be recognised in training them in the first place.

It's ludicrous to say there were no links between the CIA and al-qaeda., probably Pakistani ISI was used to ensure plausible deniability.

American blood and treasure has caused chaos in other parts of the world.

Heres an article written in 1994, long before 9/11 it makes clear the involvement of British and Americans

Related Link: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1994/afghan_war_vetrans.html
author by Feudal castratopublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 23:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"You are in the safety of Western Europe - one of the safest and stable parts of the world like this one. Made safe moreover by the blood and treasure of Americans.

That xmas bonus from US psyops HQ went to your head septic!! :)
(nah, joking, I have you down as a bored accountant! sailing the wide accountantsea who visited the US once, ate a huge deli sandwich, and was converted by the nanoprobes in the mayo, returning home to mindlessly defend the illusion of democracy, freedom and the american way, brazil fashion...but I digress :)

ehhh????? either you are

(a)totally taking the piss
(b)batshit insane

How is giving pakistan nukes making the world safe??
How is giving israel nukes making the world safe??
How was the nurturing of al quaeda making the world safe??
How was invading Iraq making the world safe??
How is deposing a democratic and secular government in Iran and inserting and supporting the shah making the world safe??
How is openly torturing and making bigger martyrs of al quaeda operatives (and the local taxi driver who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time) making the world safe??

How is a continuous policy of outright interference in the affairs of other countries for your own geopolitical / fiscal gain from the year dot (regardless of whether your daft plans worked out!!) making the world safe??

How is all this:


making the world safe??

America has been clumsily playing silly buggers in world affairs and fermenting hatred for far too long. The world is no longer safe.

Oh, and I suggest you have a quick read of iosafs suggested book of the month "staring at goats" before you post again septic. Cos to put it mildly, in the case of many of these very powerful, influential (and dangerous) people you put your total faith in to save the world, the fact is, as the saying goes, "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead!!!"

Bold sweeping propaganda statements like yours need concrete backing. Where is it?

Septic, I find your sophistry is in some ways good for the site as it helps people think a little more clearly but there are times when you just go too far and totally take the piss!!

author by Barry - 32 csmpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 23:10author address author phone Report this post to the editors

most if not all chechen fighters would originally have been trained in the soviet army during their national service . Chechnya itself is more than remote and lawless enough for those with soviet military experience to train their own recruits . For a long enough period they had their own national army , which i presume also trained its recruits . A trek to far off afghanistan to practice shooting at cut out figures seems absolutely ludricous in such circumstances .

Russias annihilation policies and tactics in chechnya were much more likely to have led to to the nihilistic despair behind the beslan siege than Al Qaeda training or influence . Russia has inflicted its own Beslans on the chechen populace for many years now . Thye dont need Osama Bin Laden to teach them about terror and inhumanity .

author by Feudal castratopublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 23:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

My feelings towards US and their meddling do not mean I in any way condone the horrible killing of ms Bhutto (and all the other unfortunates who were violently and pointlessly killed). She too was a victim.

A brave woman to even consider getting involved in the politics of pakistan. Whatever her motivations, I salute her courage.

Can't really see it encouraging many women to dabble in the politics of the region in the future though!

author by crookstownpublication date Fri Dec 28, 2007 23:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Chechen-taliban -al-qaeda links are a proven fact.

Only the Taliban recognised Chechen independence

It was the Saudi wahhabis who financed the Afghan war in the 1980s and also financed separatism in Chechnya.

Don't forget, Bin Laden never forgot his hatred of Soviet Union/Russia.

Hundreds of chechens fought in Afghanistan in 2001 especially in al qaeda brigade 055
A Saudi called Khattab with links to Bin Laden was a highly effective Chechen commander

Prior to 9/11 america was happy to see Russian difficulties in chechnya which might lead to Russian retreat from Caucasus and allow US companies to exploit oil/gas and other resources

Putin has stymied American hopes and reasserted Russia in Chechnya.

Related Link: http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=10084
author by Guypublication date Sat Dec 29, 2007 00:16author address author phone Report this post to the editors

All this talk of Benazir Bhutto coming back to help Pakistan is a joke. She was twice sacked when Prime Minister for corruption and she was on the run in Dubai.

In 1998, the Swiss Government handed over documents to the government of Pakistan outlining corruption and a formal charge of money laundering against Benazir Bhutto and her husband. $13.7 million stashed by Bhutto was frozen by Swiss authorities in 1997.

The Pakistani government issued criminal charges against Bhutto in the hopes of tracking down $1.5 BILLION she and her husband received from criminal scams. She bought herself a diamond necklace for over $175,000 with some of the money she stole from the Pakistani people when she was last Prime Minister. She didn't buy anthing for the 'women of Pakistan'

In 2003 Switzerland found Bhutto and her husband guilty of money laundering. They were given six-month suspended jail terms, fined $100,000 and were ordered to pay $11 million to the Pakistani people.

The Polish Government also gave Pakistan 500 pages of documentation relating to corruption by Benazir Bhutto and her husband. They had received €2million in bribes to do with the sale of tractors.

In 1998 Bhutto's husband, Zardari, offered exclusive rights to French Aviation Contractor Dassault to replace the Pak air force fighter jets in exchange for a five percent commission to be paid to a corporation in Switzerland controlled by Zardari.

Benazir Bhutto was not at all interested in improving the situation in Pakistan, she was just taking the opportunity to get a pardon from Musharraf for her previous corruption and getting back to grafting off the Pak people.

Paddy the Plasterer how are ya!

author by redjadepublication date Sat Dec 29, 2007 01:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

'So let's run through this logic in the way that Inspector Ian Blair might have done in his policeman's notebook before he became the top cop in London.

Question: Who forced Benazir Bhutto to stay in London and tried to prevent her return to Pakistan? Answer: General Musharraf.

Question: Who ordered the arrest of thousands of Benazir's supporters this month? Answer: General Musharraf.

Question: Who placed Benazir under temporary house arrest this month? Answer: General Musharraf.

Question: Who declared martial law this month? Answer General Musharraf.

Question: who killed Benazir Bhutto?'


author by Scepticpublication date Sat Dec 29, 2007 14:40author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Fisk is unconvincing especially if he is reduced to relying on a book by Tariq Ali for his Pakistan background. All he has done in his article is produce a logical non-sequitor that would satisfy only a non-critical audience. You could just as easily make a list of the things Musharraf did to facilitate her return and negotiate a political deal with her. Only Bhutto could have legitimised and prolonged the rule of Musharraf for another few years. Musharraf ordering her killing makes little sense on any level.

author by JohnHMpublication date Sat Dec 29, 2007 19:27author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Blame it all on JINNAH another one of the Western educated Muslims " leaders " who

was irreligious yet demanded the setting of an Islamic Muslim State instead of staying part of

India . Now that could have saved about 5,000, 000 lives .

Imran Kahn , Tariq Ali ,and the Bhuttos - they all like the high lfe of the West

and not one of them can run a country .

Corruption seems to be endemic in the landed gentry of Pakistan where this lot come from

At least our Protestant Ascendency lot who stayed helped the run the country and did not

turn into Gombeen Men or revert to being Feudal Lords

Any one for tennis ? sorry cricket ?

author by G.D.Flynnpublication date Sat Dec 29, 2007 21:43author email flynnfacultasliterum at hotmail dot comauthor address 188 burghsliussingel 3086 vg Rotterdamauthor phone Report this post to the editors

Personally I agree with most of the above comments,even sceptic who promotes a sound Logic here. Both the Baconian and the Socratic line of Enquiry by other contributors,are also welcomed. Tragedy though this Murder is , its profound implications have merely begun.It does,nt need any reminder from the 'Mother of the Muses' to state that Pakistan is a Nuclear Power, this first came about in1973 here in Holland when a Pakistani Scientist fled with Dutch Secrets, a relative was shot dead recently in Rosenburg Rotterdam 3 years ago on Boxing Day,this is all after the Supergun affair,with Matrix Churchill, Gerald Bull receiving the same fate.Since then we,ve had 9/11etc.The Invasion of Iraq who did,nt have Nuclear Weapons,The threat of War with Iran because the WEST feels that they may procure them,the blind eye to Libya who had Kit Form weapons, but did,nt have the Technicians to build them.And now Pakistan which demonstrably has Nuclear Weapons, in whose hands ? for how long ?The inconsistency of the West is this, it never put pressure on Apartheid South Africa,or Israel when it obtained weapons grade Plutonium {ie}Pu Oxide 150kgs from the Sellafield Cumberland Dump, exposed by Mordechai Vanunu, who went on to serve 20+ years in Chokey#1prison and has since been re arrested, this was around the time when Israel were using Aer Lingus to cover the Bombing of the Nuclear Facility at Tuwaitha Bagdad on 7 June 1981 a Sunday, the F14 and F16 landing at British controlled Cyprus Listening Base,to refuel. Before all this in September 1979 South Africa and Israel detonated over the Islands of Prince Edward and Marion in the Southern Indian Ocean a Nuclear Device. An Apartheid State at the time, an picked up by the then USSR.This sent British Generals Corbishley and Clutterbuck. Mi5/6/7 over to Pakistan, then Afganistan was kicked off, Kashmir kicked off, and Mrs Butto was certainly aware something was afoot. A very Brave Woman most certainly.Corrupt? I dont know? Honourable? I dont know?
Is this situation Dangerous ? WITHOUT A DOUBT ! Eires Neutrality ? GONE !
May Mrs Butto Rest in Peace.
Yours Respectfully G.D. Flynn

author by Righteous Pragmatistpublication date Sat Dec 29, 2007 22:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A democratic Bhutto-led regime, corrupt as hell, would have been preferable to the military regime of Musharraf or some other strong man in the not unlikely event that he too is assassinated.

There was a hope that Pakistan begin a gradual Western style under civilian leadership.

That hope has been extinguished for the time being.

But at the moment Pakistan crucially remains under the control of reasonable people rather than dribbling religious lunatics.

The stand off between Pakistan and India mirrors the MAD deadlook that ensured the Soviets and the Yanks did not incinerate eachother.

The arming codes and launching codes for Pakistan's nuclear weapons are presumeably the sole possession of Musharraf and his kitchen cabinet.

If these guys are eliminated and Islamic fundementalists seize control of the country including the military and nuclear forces the will not have the codes to use these nukes.

author by phlegmpublication date Sat Dec 29, 2007 23:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Now without stopping all you bar stool clich'e hounds & experts in your wake of utter gobshitery - let me show you 3 elements that such a decision impinges upon :-
1) the independence of the Judiciary whose independendence brought Musharref to his second coup & Bhutto out of exile & lawyers on the street.
2) the paucity of inquiries in this great world of ours everytime someone says it was Al qaeda just in case you're as thick as you seem, there have been over 1600 terrorists attacks attributed to Al Q in the last years including western cities & tourist resorts & less than 6 of them have been investigated properly.
3) it's not up to Bhutto's supporters to say aye or nay - it is for her dynastic successor's. I'll help you out on the name front - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutto_family

offer of exhumation -

& really, rightous pragmatist do tell me how was Pakistan looking forward to western style democracy? -were they due to get a state wide postal service or something? tit scans? waiting lists?

author by davekeypublication date Sun Dec 30, 2007 17:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Looking at Channel 4s news coverage of Bhuttos assasination was nothing short of hilarious. New footage has emerged showing the gun being fired, they showed the firemen hosing down the street to eliminate the evidence, there was no autopsy and Ch4 still insisted that Al Qaeda was involved. Then they had two voice over guys reading transcripts of an intercepted phone call between Al Qaeda members congratulating each other on the success of the operation.

Finally at the end of the news they read out a press statement from Osama Bin Laden to the Iraqi people urging them to continue their fight against the great infidels.

Seriously I'm not making this up.

Al Qaeda Al Qaeda Al Qaeda Bin Laden Bin Laden Bin Laden !!!

I think I'll go back to the internet to find out the real news, I just can't take that much comedy.

author by phlegmpublication date Sun Dec 30, 2007 18:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Bilawal Bhutto Zardari is a student at Christchurch college Oxford reading history. He will co-chair the party with his father Asif Ali Zardari. They want a UN inquiry because the UN did such a good job on Hariri's assassination & it's really simple :-
1) just a bomb just so Al Q.
2) throw in a shooter & it's just so not Al Q.

Personally like the last commentator I think it's sordidly ridiculous, I'd rather contemplate how Carla Bruni could go from shagging Mick Jagger, Donald Trump & Kevin Costner to smooching Sarkozy in front of the Pyramids. maybe she's born with it. I'm sure I let ye all know which one it was already.

The father, the son & the department head of media & communications of the PPP.
The father, the son & the department head of media & communications of the PPP.

Related Link: http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=34785
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