Fires burn and Elections are coming in Greece

by Readerette Thu Sep 06, 2007 16:22

http://www.indymedia.org/or/2007/08/891436.shtml

Local coverage on indymedia greece.

Nasa Shot from Last week

by MichaelY - iawm Thu Sep 06, 2007 16:51

A very different perspective just forwarded to me by a Greek friend:

http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_...57320

by G. Reece Thu Sep 06, 2007 23:45

There are a number of inaccuracies in Michael Y.'s piece above:

1. The decision by the Prime Minister to call early elections took no serious observer of Greek politics by surprise. Everyone expected early elections; the parties, pollsters and media were on an election footing since early in the year. People were surprised at how quickly the announcement was made, and that it was done so by the Government Press Secretary before the President was informed.

2. Public Order Minister Vryon Polydoras first spoke of an asymmetric treat.

3. Only one party, the Greek Communist Party, mentioned the possibility that the fires were caused by the US in retaliation for the oil pipeline deal with Russia. It was almost immediately retracted by the KKE leader.

4. Dora Bakoyianni mentioned the fires *might* have been caused by anarchists.

5. There is little evidence in the polls that public opinion is swinging to the left-of-PASOK parties. Every poll taken this year has put New Democracy in the lead.

As with any event, rumours abound in Greece on the cause of the fires. I've heard PASOK (the Socialist opposition) members state that the fires were caused by New Democracy members in order to win the election; I've heard ND supporters claim that PASOK members were responsible.

As regards the theory that the fires are the result of the plan to build the Ionian Motorway ... This is conspiracy theory at its best. I don't know how familiar with Greece you are. The country has a huge problem with over development in the Attica (Athens) region. Almost five million people, that's half the country's population, are crammed into Attica. Over investment in the Attica region and a very poor infrastructural system in the rest of the country have contributed to this.

It's s sad fact of modern life, but Greek people do have cars, do have a need to travel, every now and again. The road from Corinth to Patras is a death trap and has been overburdened for decades. Recently, the road between Athens and Corinth was improved, and a suburban rail line opened between the two cities. I'm aware that the suburban rail network is being extended to Patras. The Ionian Motorway sounds like a reasonable idea to me as well. Only by developing a modern transport infrastructure in the country will the over-concentration in Athens end.

by MichaelY - per cap Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:25

GR's response to my article above is welcome, if not very surprising. Under the handle, what is articulated there is the 'offical' government position. And it should be treated and appreciated as such. Firstly on the supposed 'inaccuracies'....
One at a time:
- While it is true that it was the PM's right hand person Polydoras who first spoke of this incredible notion of 'asymmetric threat', it was PM Karamanlis himself who made the news by articulating it loudly to the local and international press. What GR does not tell us, of course, is the fact that the day after, the leadership of the Greek Army, and its Chief of Staff, buried that notion of the threat saying that no such threat of either symmetric or asymmetric kind existed in their view.
- We agree that the Greek Communist Party (KKE) machinery did argue, for a while, that the fires may have been the result of CIA/USA machinations. No inaccuracy there.
- GR says that the Minister of Foreign Affairs said that the fires MIGHT have been caused by anarchist elements.....does that not remind you of some of Michael McDowell's shibboleths?
- Finally, my reading of the situation is that there is a distinct leakage of votes from ND to the extrreme right/populist grouping of LAOS and from PASOK to the left. The final scenario is still unclear but we'll be able to debate this more succintly after tonight's national TV debate between the 6 Party leaders.
But what amused me most was GR's sentence: "As regards the theory that the fires are the result of the plan to build the Ionian Motorway ... This is conspiracy theory at its best."

First, and above all, the link to that debate
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_...57320
was simply a reminder of what some people are saying in Greece and the heated debate that goes on. (The article is in English btw)

GR overlooks the fact that the Ionian Motorway is the biggest and largest European road construction project. Its construction has been opposed by a number of local, environmental and cultural pressure groups for years now. Over and above the need to open roads for private cars [ a debate so current here in Ireland - particularly over Tara] , this motorway is a specific project to link specific coastal areas (as yet 'undeveloped') with specific social groups of A+B category tourists, Greek and mostly foreign (as yet undefined). Local people say that this is an attempt to restructure this mainly agricultural area with its small villages and olive trees (now largely destroyed by the fires) to a Greek version of Costa Brava and Costa del Sol. A combination of cement, restaurants, night clubs, 4 and 5 star resorts while the local people are either expelled to the hinterland or become waiters and cleaners.
If GR calls this point of view a 'conspiracy' - perhaps he is right. Perhaps there is a conspiracy being hatched. Will he care to clarify and expand?

by Pile on Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:54

Most likely the main culprit for these fires are mobile phone pylons. I'm sorry I've no science to back it up but sure let's get a campaign going anyway.

by token dubois Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:44

First correct the Greek link http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_...57320
There is no denying the Greeks who suffered less hectarage in flame than Portugal, Italy or Spain of the last three years - lost more human life than those three other states put together. There is also no denying that the Greek government failed to respond properly and even the most basic state co-ordination & classification of the fires as a "disaster" was lacking. There is an order of priorities when fighting fires. I've seen a squad of aircraft extinguish a few hundred hectares close to an industrial estate and housing where larger areas of thousands of hectares get less emergency services. EU states are loathe to declare "disasters" because it effects their tourism & budgets &brings their imcomptence into scrutiny and independent observation & thus allows for backlashes later on. Portugal in its last burning summer had to ask for planes and helicopters from most of Europe, and they crashed one of them which didn't go down to well. The route of the motorway is obvious. In Galicia, Portugal, southern Italy and parts of Spain it is taken as "a given" that the majority of forest fires are indeed works of arson as sociopathy & as land speculation. That's why there is an trans-national register of pyromaniacs & co-operation between Spain & Portugal at least, whose worst recent fires (of 2005 and 2006) saw quite a number of people convicted & tellingly the land they cleared has a potenial future speculative value as real estate.

corrected link to our sister site in Athens.

by G. Reece Fri Sep 07, 2007 22:51

Like yourself, Michael, I'm writing in a purely personal capacity. I don't represent any organisation, am not a member of any party. My observations were those of someone who has monitored the problem very closely here in Greece. After reading your original contribution, I felt there was a need to correct some of the claims you made.

Polydoras' claim of an asymmetric threat was ridiculous and I laughed long and hard when I heard it roll off his lips. He's widely regarded here as a goon, who is prone to making outlandish statements. He's grossly incompetent, and I cannot see him making it to be cabinet if New Democracy return to government after the elections.

Karamanlis initial statements on the fires were less outlandish. He claimed that so many fires "set" across the country in such a short period of time "cannot be a coincidence". In that observation, most Greeks agree. Arson has been a fact of Greek summers for decades, and most Greeks believe fires are man made. They simply disagree on what causes people to commit arson.

Leaving these unfounded theories aside, there are a number of facts out there that the conspiracy theorists on the left, right and centre have ignored, namely:
* 2007 was the first year (since weather records began in Greece in 1897) to have THREE headwaves. The only year to have two heatwaves was 2000. The first two heatwaves of 2007 were hotter than both of these.
* June temperatures in Athens were 3.9C higher than average
* on June 26, a record temperature, the highest in history, of 44.8C was measured in Thisseo, central Athens
* December 2006-May 2007: Greece experienced its second-driest period on record. 7mm of rain was recorded in June.

I believe the fires are directly linked to the record warm and dry weather the country has experienced this year. These conditions ensured that any fires set or which broke out during the period would result in a conflagration. The successive neglect of New Democracy and PASOK government of the forestry and fire services and the failure to draw down EU money to protect forests by building fire roads magnified the disaster.

Of course, the above is not as sex y as a fancy conspiracy theory involving a road. I just find it so incredible that otherwise sensible and intelligent people can fall for nonsense of this magnitude. Every conspiracy requires planning, manpower, expertise, etc. When did these meetings take place to plan the burning of Ilia so that a road could be built through it? How come the Greek press, which is otherwise so partisan and loves throwing the dirt around, cannot dig up documents pointing the fingers at this secret conspiracy? How come no one was come forward to spill the beans?

I've spoken to so many Greeks about the fires, and none have mentioned the Ionian Highway. Of course, the general secretary of the Communist Party only yesterday linked the two. Last week it was the Americans, annoyed over the Russian pipeline, this week people trying to cash in on the road. Another change in the party line.

Michael's claim that he brought the Ionian Highway issue to our attention because that's what "some" people in Greece are saying is ridiculous. Why then does he not tell us what right-wing LAOS has been implying? Its claimed that foreign agents were responsible for the fires. There's just as little evidence to support that view as there is to back up the Ionian Road idea.

I don't deny that there have been objections to the Ionian Highway. Like any project of its kind, this is inevitable, and I for one would support all efforts to keep it away from ecologically sensitive areas. However, I refute your claim that its main purpose is to open up Ilia to mass tourism. Greek citizens will benefit from this project, as they have done from the improving of the Athens-Corinth, Corinth-Tripoli highways.

Just a note on the opinion polls. Here's a list of polls taken since January (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_legislative_election...polls). If Michael Y. has any other concrete information regarding swings to the populist right, or Stalinist and reformist left, I'd like to see it.

About the six leader's debate: my observations:
* Karamanlis put on his soulvaki-salesman/taxi driver-man-of-the-people front. It was almost Bertie-esque.
* Papandreou was terrible, and could not put a sentence together without pauses. He had nothing to say about PASOK policy, but continuously tried to focus on some of the ND scandals. The PASOK people I spoke today said he is an embarrassment.
* Papriga of the CP was what she always is. She made an ass of herself trying to explain why she sent her child to private schools and colleges (the party is totally against them). She claimed it was necessary because she wouldn't be able to pick the daughter up from state school on the way to work, and that the private, fee-paying college was near to her mother's house.
* Alavanos of SYRIZA was animated and made some good points. However, he overdid it by claiming the student protests of this year were a continuation of the student anti-Junta protests.
* Karazerferis: rude, ignorant, dangerous windbag
* Papathemelis: who?