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Indymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.
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Jump To Comment: 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1Iberian media report today that the Irish News maintains the Mc Cann family are now to engage the Belfast based company Kingsley Napley who played a pivotal role in dishing DNA evidence in the Omagh cases. This is the second high profile legal inclusion in the Mc Cann defence team, the first being Pinochet's lawyer.
August 15th 1998 and everyone knows where they were and what they were doing.
In Dublin many had been visiting the Tall ships- its a huge case, and all sides deserve
the respect of law.
RIP
The US system is an Anglo Saxon legal one as is that of the Republic of Ireland. The French Revolution and later European Law took the concept from the English. There might have been some notion of the concept in classical times but basically it derives from English common law in its middle ages origins. The presumption does end at conviction - the appeal inquires into the safety of the conviction. That’s why the papers could call Joe O'Reilly a murderer after his conviction but not before. If successful at least in English law the conviction is set aside and the presumption restored. None of this is to suggest that the Anglo Saxon system is infallible or lacks strengths that other legal orders do posses.
1) The little nugget that "presumption of innocence" is unique to the anglo-saxon tradition completely disregards the presumption of innocence in the French Revolutionary declaration of the rights of man, the EU convention on Human Rights, the US "Coffin case", the letters of Trajan and Julius Frontonus of the first century AD and the thoughts of Greenleaf on the judicial practises of the ancient Trojans.
2) & by the way, presumption does not end at conviction for that would preclude the right to appeal.
this is a nice US case which brings in references to the other more ancient quotes -
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=...l=432 as does this link
http://www.usenet.com/newsgroups/talk.philosophy.misc/m....html
& of course this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence
3) it's little more than gurgling to believe that the Anglo-Saxon system was unique holding the right, for for that to be true, dear doctor Wittgenstein the opposite would have to be true - yet there is no legal system which codifies presumption of guilt before conviction.
sin é.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Do I get a prize? t-shirt? line?
or do we not get to word play on the internet?
We could go into the risible record of Mickey Mc Dowell or the expedient and expensive
foreign policy of the Teflon Taoiseach, just cos it says flowers on the tin does not mean
it always is...
Interesting trolling, sceptic.
Many assumed that the Guildford four were guilty and put an immense trust in the
Brit legal system and my god was there eggs on those faces, anyway, Everyone
is entitled to the 'presumption'of innocence and the slow drain of info , coupled with
the obvious legal inequities of the case leads one to 'assume' theres more there than meets
the eye.
if its all rosy in the garden then the basic rights of access to legal should be available to
Mr Mac.
Three points:
1. It is a PRESUMPTION of innocence, not an assumption of innocence.
2. The presumption ends at the point of conviction.
3. It is a concept original and virtually unique to the Anglo Saxon legal tradition. Good to see you revere at least one aspect of the British colonial heritage.
The problem being that the bad investigations, the political cost of weighing the truth and
the attendant publicity surrounding the case mitigates against the main defendant. the Mc Kevitt
dossier is quite big and there definitely appears to be incongruitites with regard to adequate
legal aid. of course there is no precedent on the two islands for discriminatory cases-
not in Guildford and not in Birmingham...
The full truth of the operation will not emerge until the parties - victims and suspected
perpetrator are given parity of esteem under the legal systems of both jurisdictions.
btw:- the Mc Kevitt camp released also on the eight anniversary of the bombing,
maybe its a bad day to choose to highlight inequity in the case???
Guilty 'til proven innocent is it?
Well said Des.
I guess some people just have no shame.
It would be laughable if the consequences of their actions had not been so dire.
"The defendants in the case have consistently been denied equality, fairness and an opportunity to put forward a defence."
How about 29 people and 2 unborn children denied the right to live? How about scores of people forced to live with disfigurement and permant injury? How about people forced to live with mental scars? How about the families of the dead and the injured who have to listen to the absolute rubbish about how hard done by McKevitt et al are? God it must make them sick to their stomachs.