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Sinn Fein Vote To Back PSNI

category national | crime and justice | feature author Monday January 29, 2007 00:09author by w.author email improvemyself at hotmail dot com Report this post to the editors

Tiocfaidh ar LAW

featured image
2006 Marching Season: Adams and the PSNI...

On Sunday Sinn Fein voted to support the Police Service of Northern Ireland at their extraordinary ard fheis which was attended by approximately 1,000 delegates.

The vote, which was recorded by a show of hands, came after 6 hours of debate and a series of amendments which Sinn Fein claim will “enhance the proposal”. The build-up to the ard fheis saw an unprecedented amount of positive press for Sinn Fein with the media calling today’s event a “historical moment” and suggesting that the party has finally matured beyond it’s revolutionary past. A Sunday Business post poll stated that 56% of people questioned would be more likely to vote for the party if they support the PSNI.

Related Links: Sinn Féin | Wikipedia: PIRA | Police Service Northern Ireland | Fourthwrite Magazine | The Blanket Magazine | Republican Sinn Féin | 32 CSM | IRSP | Eirigi | Patten Report | British Police: Republican Policemen?

Sinn Fein’s leader Gerry Adams was jeered by Republican protestors as he entered the RDS today. Dissenting Republican voices feel they have been marginalised in the policing debate with the Sinn Fein leadership being presented in the press as the entire “Republican Movement”. The Continuity IRA, armed wing of Republican Sinn Fein, released a statement rejecting an invitation to talks with Adams and stating their opposition to the “Stormont sellout”.

The extraordinary ard fheis comes just days after Police Ombudsman, Nuala O’Loan’s report which confirmed that UVF death squads colluded with the RUC-special branch on at least 10 murders and the 1997 bombing of Sinn Fein’s Monaghan offices. In his address to the ard fheis Gerry Adams made specific references to RUC collusion; “The Irish government has said it is shocked by the Ombudsman's report. Shocked? What are they shocked about? This city of Dublin was bombed and 26 people were killed. The same day the same gang killed 7 people in Monaghan. There wasn't even a proper Garda investigation into these atrocities.” Adams then went on to state that it was precisely because of these faults in the PSNI that Republicans should be in a position to bring them to account. A 32 County Sovereignty Movement press release urged Sinn Fein members to reject the motion on policing as “Accepting policing is the logical consequence of accepting the legitimacy of British Parliamentary activity in Ireland.”

Sinn Fein’s youth wing, “Ógrá Sinn Fein”, held their own National Congress in advance of today’s meeting and agreed to urge all of their members to vote against the motion on policing. They also set out their own “Revolutionary new model of policing” but ultimately stated that they would respect whatever decision was made. Gerry Adams addressed part of his speech towards the Ógrá dissenters stating; “Some of you may disagree. That is perfectly acceptable. For example Ógrá disagrees with us on this issue. I wish they didn't but I respect their position and I especially commend their resolve to accept the outcome of this Ard Fheis debate.”

While the mainstream media welcomes Sinn Fein’s decision many dissatisfied Republicans have been displaced in the months leading up the today’s decision. A recent IMC report noted the existence of a new Republican Socialist organisation founded by dissatisfied Republicans; “This has not been done without the creation of some tension within the organisation...It has encouraged some disaffected members to resign. Some people in Dublin have established a small political grouping on revolutionary socialist principles called éirígí.”

Gerry Adams resolutely stated his party’s commitment to their radical roots “Sinn Fein is an Irish Republican Party. Our resolve is to end British rule on this island; to end partition; and to bring about a 32 county democratic socialist republic” but how true this can be while they share power with the British state and back the police force has left many people sceptical. Vincent Browne may have been right when he wrote in the Business Post “The DUP has no reason to fear Sinn Fein - neither has Fianna Fail, Fine Gael or even the PDs. Indeed in a few years’ time they will be indistinguishable from any of them.”

author by RDS reporterpublication date Sun Jan 28, 2007 21:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams closing remarks to Extraordinary Ard Fheis:

Bhí seo ceann de na diospoireacht is tabhactach a rinne poblachtanaigh i riamh.

Bhí muid oscailte agus carduil agus thug muid ar mbaruil mar sin.

Agus tá mé buioch daoibh go leir mar glac sibh pairt ann.

This has been one of the most important debates in the recent history of our country and of Irish republicanism.

I want to thank everyone who contributed to it.

The decision we have taken today is truly historic.

Its significance will be in how we use this decision to move our struggle forward.

We have created the potential to change the political landscape of this island for ever.

We have created the opportunity to significantly advance our primary objective of a United Ireland through the building of greater political strength.

Now it is up to each of us at this Ard Fheis, and to the thousands of other republicans watching our deliberations today, to build on today's positive outcome.

Of course, building political strength won't happen by chance. It will require hard work and dedication.

As I listened to today's debate, listened to the scores of contributions, and as I look around this hall now I am confirmed in my confidence that Sinn Féin has the commitment, the talent and ability, the determination and vision to build a New Ireland.

I want to make a few other short remarks to bring today's historic Ard Fheis to a close.

First of all I want to thank everyone who organised this Ard Fheis - everyone from security to publicity - tellers, steering committee, chair - achan daoine a chuir ocaid le chéile.

I want also to offer once again to meet with the leadership of other republican organisations who are opposed to Sinn Féin's peace strategy.

I want to meet with them and to listen to any alternative strategy that they want to put forward.

I would also expect them to listen to our analysis and the rationale behind our strategy.

I also want to appeal to unionists to encourage their political leaders to engage in open debate with Sinn Féin, and to unionist political leaders to take up that challenge.

Republicanism and unionism have to reach an historic compromise if the promise and hope of the peace process is to deliver stability and progress for all our people.

That means beginning a real dialogue, an anti-sectarian dialogue, between nationalism and republicanism and unionism.

A dialogue which can move us all beyond the current impasse into a living, hopeful future that will cherish all our people equally.

To achieve that, we must begin to co-operate in managing the process of change.

It is also up to us who are working for a united Ireland to do everything possible to reach out to others and especially to reassure unionists that their culture and identity is not threatened by Irish unity.

On the contrary Irish unity can liberate and protect and advance the rights and entitlements of every citizen, nationalist and unionist and republican and all the new Irish on this island.

Accepting the responsibility of leadership means rising above our history of division, hostility and conflict.

I would appeal to those unionist political leaders to grasp the challenge that now exists - to demonstrate the leadership that is required in reaching beyond traditional positions.

The reality is that there has been significant change in recent years and that process of change will continue.

The decision we have taken today is not the end of the issue of policing and justice.

There is much more work to be done to ensure that the accountability mechanisms that are in place are used to their fullest potential.

We have a lot of work to do in co-operating with the families of those who continue to seek the truth on collusion, and state terrorism or who campaign for an end to plastic bullets.

Those campaigns have not ended.

They, like our struggle, have entered a new phase of activity.

This applies to Policing and Justice just as it does to other areas of state structures.

There is no going back, only forward to a new beginning and a just society.

If we are to make progress republicans and nationalist and unionists will have to set the terms of our relationship.

Republicans believe that the best way to achieve this is to take control of our destiny.

That means persuading the British government to face up to its responsibilities.

It means the British government leaving Ireland.

That is the democratic right of the people of our island.

But why, we must ask ourselves, would a British government accept this democratic right, if the Irish government or other parties in this state are asking for less?

Sinn Féin is the only nationally organised party on this island.

We face into the future filled with hope, confident in our own ability and growing stronger day by day.

Today we acted in the national interest.

We look to others to do the same in the time ahead.

Today's Ard Fheis is about building our political strength. It is about putting backbone into Irish national politics.

It is about building equality - not just in the north - but everywhere in cities and towns all across this state and throughout rural Ireland.

Seamus Breslin from Doire said what the establishment feared was the wee man from the Bogside or the Falls Road going on to the Policing Boards.

Seamus is right but what the establishment fears even more than the wee man are the wee women, not just from the Bogside or the Falls but from Dublin Central, from Cavan Monaghan from the Cobh of Cork, from the west and the sunny south east - not just on policing boards but on decision making structures throughout Ireland.

Ní bheidh saoirse gan saoirse na mban agus ni bhrich SF abalta e a fhail gan mna na hEireann anseo linn mar gceonnairi.

Our duty is to develop politics which empower people. My friends we are very capable of doing that.

We are with Connolly - Ireland without our people means nothing to us.

We are about the re-conquest of Ireland by the people of Ireland.

The last month of consultation - internally, then with the wider republican base, and finally with everyone else is an example of a new culture of politics - the politics of change.

Sinn Féin is the engine of that change.

As we go from here, united, we also need to give space to everyone who has concerns or reservations about today's huge decision.

The debate does not finish here.

It continues - as our struggle continues.

And the debate needs to include not just the issue of policing but all other aspects of contemporary Irish society and the republican vision for a better Ireland, a new Ireland - an Ireland of Equals.

We are back here for our regular Ard Fheis in a months time and the year after that and the next year - bigger, stronger, bolder building political strength and building the new Republic.

In the meantime let's take the next wee phase nice and calmly.

Let's not be upset by how others respond to today's decision.

Remember the higher they build their barriers the stronger we become.

Let's keep our strategic and primary objectives as our compass in the time ahead.

Leanagi ar aghaigh le cheile, laidir, aontaithe agus ag fas is ag togail cumhocht.

Gerry Adams speaks after the vote
Gerry Adams speaks after the vote

author by outside looking inpublication date Sun Jan 28, 2007 22:15author address author phone Report this post to the editors

disband sf/psni.

'with connolly' he says. i've read a bit of his work and it slips my mind where he said join your oppressors ranks to make him a better person.

' i want also to offer once again to meet with the leadership of other republicans who are opposed to s/f's peace plan'.

firstly, the initial offer was a pr stunt. surely if he wanted a serious meeting he would have better channels than the media to get the message out.

secondly, he makes it seem like it's the peace strategy or a lack of armed struggle that is a major issue here. it's not, most people know armed struggle isn't justified and that's not an issue. the issue is what type of peace do you want or will settle for.

another shrewdly-crafted statement by the new sultan of spin. move over new labour - sf/psni are here.

author by Sharon . - Individual .publication date Sun Jan 28, 2007 22:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

.....follow the link below (to the post dated Sunday 28 January 2007) .

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
author by muntpublication date Sun Jan 28, 2007 22:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Indymedia needs more contemporaneous reporting on breaking stories like this. No need for certain other sites to hold the monopoly on breaking stories.

author by Sean Dolanpublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 07:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As an Irish-American who has never risked my life and freedom in Northern Ireland i've hesitated to condemm the ''peace process ''. It literally wasn;t my ass on the line ! But to see such an abject surrender to the Uniformed Terrorists of the R.U.C. (Oh excuse me , The Police services of Northern Ireland ) saddened me . End the '' Armed Struggle '' ? All right . Accepting those goons, torturers , and sectarian murderers as a legitimate police force is something else . I was sitting in a bar here in San Leandro California when ABC News announced that the ''Catholic Separatist group, Sinn Fein ''' (??!!) ''had agreed to drop all opposition to the police and cooperate fully with them ''
I was sitting with two Irish expats , one from Dublin and the other from Derry . Neither could remotely be considered '' Dissident Republicans '''. The guy from Dublin had voted for the Socialist Party before he came to California and the Derryman had voted for both S.D.L.P. and S.F. candidates in the past .
But both were disgusted by the move today . The Dubliner even said that the I.R.A. should have demanded that the Police disarm before they did . (as well as the withdrawl of all British troops )
Once again it's not my call . But i wonder what the results would be if there would have been a direct, secret ballot of all Sinn Fein members on this issue .

author by radical jonnypublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 08:56author address author phone Report this post to the editors

For everyone in the republican community- both those who support the move and those who oppose it- the next move is to ratchet up involvement and accountability. For instance:

- Both supporters and opposers need to be regularly attending the meetings of their local Policing Board.
- Stay tuned to what the police are asking for, what their reporting to the board, and what their explanations are.
- Keep a close eye on how the boards vote, who votes for what, and the public statements and positions taken by members of all parties.
- Ask LOTS of questions.

I only bring this up because the Policing Board meetings that I've been tat have had an audience of five or six people (if that). The Board members seemed to truly enjoy the status and power that sitting on a committee gives people. Then a nice man in a uniform comes in and tells them that he needs them to rubber stamp something or other. Members ask questions. He condescendingly, politiely, but firmly tells them that it's all very complicated and that it would probably do their heads in to have it explained to them, but trust us, this will help us tackle crime better. Then everyone on the Board goes into the default mode: Well, you must help the police tackle crime, mustn't you?

And let me tell you, Policing Boards HATE questions from the floor! Board members hate it when citizens ask better questions than they did, and cops just hate questions.

But that's real local politics; not very glamourous, I admit. But SF wanted political power. Now they need to deliver.

And if they don't, vote 'em out.

author by John Boypublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 09:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It's strange how it's often southern 'republicans' and people least affected by what goes on in Northern Ireland who are opposed to measures that may further the cause of peace in Northern Ireland.

author by Hmmmpublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 09:55author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Thats a very big HQ for MI5, for such a small statelet- add to that, SF have not been
'working' intensely in the south- indeed they have been co-operating with a corrupt
mafia of FF and ignored crucial issues relevant to southern communities in their
'thrust' for power. So fair play on Nof I , but 40% on corruption and globalisation
in the S of I ( you cannot burn the candle at both ends).

author by litmuspublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 16:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

A couple of soundbites from yesterday-

"If you have a problem with rats, you can put down traps, but the best thing to do is find the nest."

"If I had a hole in my hat, and it was snowing, I wouldn't go out and buy a new pair of wellingtons".

What was impressive about yesterday was the openness of the debate, the genuine feeling of comradeship and friendly engaged criticism from all sides, and the fact that Sinn Fein is able to hold such a meeting in the full glare of the press and over two thousand of its members (the figure of a thousand only refers to voting delegates).

Contrast that with the secretive and cultish ways that other left-wing parties operate - neither the SP or the SWP have any notion of allowing open debate within their ranks, and even Labour's last conference at the Helix last year did not have any votes or even motions to debate.

Buut the best thing about the ard fheis for me, was the sense that the party is united.

Everyone walked in together and everyone walked out together.

Even those who hold different views from the leadership are able to see that this is the right thing to do, and although Sinn Fein has not actually signed up to anything yet (the party only agreed to join the police boards if and when devolution is restored), the grassroots have accepted the argument that the best strategy is to get into the positions of power and authority and seek a new beginning on justice.

Taking openness too far: RSF meet Love Ulster (remember O'Connell Street?) outside the RDS
Taking openness too far: RSF meet Love Ulster (remember O'Connell Street?) outside the RDS

author by Bpublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 16:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Have RSF found a new friend in FAIR??

author by kbrannopublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 16:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

How open can a vote be with delegates being forced to raise their hands in public. Does this not lead to an oppurtunity to intimidate people to follow the party line.
Yesterday should have been a secert ballot.

author by ex-provopublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 16:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"SP or the SWP have any notion of allowing open debate within their ranks, and even Labour's last conference at the Helix last year did not have any votes or even motions to debate."

In fairness to those organisations, when there is a motion to be debated the Sinn Fein leadership seem to have the end result decided before the ard fheis. Remember 86 and the mystery votes, the IRA have always controlled the Ard Fheis & Gerry controls the PIRA.

author by Vote watcherpublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 16:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

How can you have a secret ballot for delegate voting? The delegates receive instruction from their cumainn, and any member has a right to go along and make sure they vote as they have been asked to.

Anyway, if it was a secret ballot the usual nutters would be on here saying it had been rigged...

author by DMpublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 17:58author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Agreed ,sinn fein isn't a democratic body it's entierly centralised, i don't they would have called an ard fheis unless they knew it'd pass.
As for the acceptance of the PSNI itself i think it's a great move towards peace and self-determination for the people of the north. I also believe it'll help the PSNI turn out as it was intended as more nationalist will deem it acceptable to join

author by Sharon . - Individual .publication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 18:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi litmus !

"...the best strategy is to get into the positions of power and authority and seek a new beginning on justice. "

Would you offer that same advice to Mr Adams and his colleagues in relation to taking their seats in Westminster ?

Hi DM !

"...more nationalist will deem it acceptable to join (the RUC/PSNI) ."

Nationalists never had the same reason to avoid the RUC as republicans had - and still have .

Sharon .

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
author by Jim Opublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 20:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Paisley'll have the shinners wearing the poppy and forcing marches down the Garvaghy road before they know it.

author by Shilpa Shettypublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 21:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

& tell me it was not.

author by M Lackpublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 22:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

WIll SF/RUC now move on to endorsing the british army in the occupied 6?

author by Barry - 32 csmpublication date Mon Jan 29, 2007 23:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

" Seamus Breslin from Doire said what the establishment feared was the wee man from the Bogside or the Falls Road going on to the Policing Boards."

A bit feckin odd that considering Britain has made very clear they will throw the shinners out of Stormont if they dont join up to the British police and stop giving them loads of money ( almost £2 million a year , over the counter . Denis Donaldson and his ilks remuneration isnt included in that figure). Even odder when Tony Blair and Hugh Orde have been celebrating the Yes vote and commending Adams for his tremendous leadership ( they are secretly terrified !! ). The British establishment are very odd people indeed . Imagine drafting a Treaty that made explicitly clear everyone who signed up to it had to join the PSNI boards and support the British police when they are apparently terrified PSF will do exactly that .

Is this really a case of the British establishment engaging in some weird kind of psychological confrontation therapy to overcome their phobias ? Is Tony Blair really shaking in his boots after yesterdays result ?

Methinks Seamus Breslin is either a bit of an eejit or he thinks everyone else is .

author by Alecpublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 01:19author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Shame on you, Gerry
You have no right to spit on Irish Republicans' graves supporting the fucking PSNI !
Did you forget your Comrades, did you forget your father or Bobby Doyle ?
Which side are you on, Gerry ?

cira_statement.jpg

cwdeath.jpg

seamusmcfiring.jpg

author by Sharon. - Individual .publication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 01:34author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi Barry !

" A bit feckin odd that considering Britain has made very clear they will throw the shinners out of Stormont if they dont join up to the British police and stop giving them loads of money ( almost £2 million a year , over the counter . Denis Donaldson and his ilks remuneration isnt included in that figure)."

Oh now you're just being nasty , Barry !

In an article published in 'The Sunday Times' 'newspaper' on 9 April last year (page two) , 2 (named) members of the Provisional organisation who had 'talked' to Mr Donaldson in the hours after he had been 'outed' stated that they had established that , over his 20-year 'career' as a spy , Mr Donaldson was paid £40,000 (Sterling) [about €60,000 ?] which works out at around €60 a week !

Unlike others in that 'camp' , it appears that Denis was not in it for the money !

Sharon .

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
author by w.publication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 14:42author email improvemyself at hotmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

Barry/Sharon I'm working on a much bigger piece about the Republican movement would be interested in hearing from you on it, you can find my email above.

author by Con Carrollpublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 15:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

what does Republican Sinn Fein have to offer
do they want to see another obscene loyalist act were children were killed by a petrol bomb thrown in their home. grow up wise up
the picture is loud and clear Frazier and RSF members

people should be concentrating on how best we can do political damage to FF PDS FG Rabbitte

I do have political issue with Sinn Fein leader-ship in the White House

author by whatatwatpublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 15:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors



They have capitalised on issues they have ignored in the 26 counties.

if people vote for them we get FF/SF.

Not interested they like all others who have done the dirt with FF are tainted.
They are not a socialist party. they are right-wing- a one trip pony.

author by Sharon. - Individual .publication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 16:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi Con !

"what does Republican Sinn Fein have to offer"
See for yourself :
http://www.rsf.ie/
--- the 'Documents' and 'Features' links might be of particular interest to you .

"do they want to see another obscene loyalist act were children were killed by a petrol bomb thrown in their home."
Of course not , Con : no republican wants to see that .
But how will supporting those that directed the actions of the petrol-bombers prevent it from happening again ?

"grow up wise up"
.....by supporting those that are repeating the 'stepping stones' that have failed in the past , you mean ... ?

"the picture is loud and clear Frazier and RSF members"
Both groups present at the RDS on that day , yes , but not in agreement with each other's political stand . Here's another "picture" for you , Con - Provisional Sinn Fein being advised , led and directed by ex-members of Fianna Fail and the RUC , amongst others . "Loud and clear" indeed !

"people should be concentrating on how best we can do political damage to FF PDS FG Rabbitte"
Perhaps 'the people' should sit with those groups in Leinster House and bring them down from 'the inside' , do you think...?

"I do have political issue with Sinn Fein leader-ship in the White House
But no "issue" with that same leadership in Leinster House or Stormont ? Or half-way in , as they are , to Westminster ? No "issue" with them supporting British 'law and order' in Ireland , no ?

Sharon .

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
author by R. Isiblepublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 17:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Posted on the Indymedia.ie newswire at the link below by P.Geraghty this brilliant photo-journalism of the 35th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday documents a good deal of skepticism about Sinn Féin's détente with the RUC in both graffiti "SF/RUC Out" and banners carried by the marchers.

Related Link: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80690
author by Patrick Henrypublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 19:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

It seems as if Paisley's next step in the Humiliation of $inn Fein is that they inform on those members in their organisation who have murdered McCartney and what Paisley wants $inn Fein will surely deliver to their future leader.

Will Scap be brought back into the fold to arrange this?

author by john p - ósfpublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 19:03author address author phone Report this post to the editors

what have rsf done for the cause of irish republicians in the last 25 years and what have the 32csm done in the last 9. they have both based their strategy on being opposed to every move that the main-stream republician movement make.
i was a delegate on sunday and like all ógra delegates i voted no to the motion. it wasn't a case that delegates were afraid to vote no as was claimed by some of the ranters on this page.
but then again the rsf's and 32csm's on this page are going to come up with some claim as to why it went through.
i'd also just like to say that right now there are republicians throughout this country that are opposed to the move on policing and these disaffected republicians would consider a move away from sf if there was a viable alternative. maybe rsf and the 32csm should consider some real policies before they turn up at the next sinn fein ard fheis with 10 or 12 protestors.

author by Patrick Henrypublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 19:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I'm fed up listening to people like McGuinness and his lackeys claiming that they fought the war against the Brits. The Fact is that many of those who now oppose the $inn Fein Sell out were the most active in the war. Dolorous Price, Darky Hughes, Gerry McGeough and countless ex-blanket men like Mackers who suffered with Bobby and the lads in Long kesh.
The only ones still standing by Adams And McGuinness are those who are well paid by the British purse.

We will grow in strength and in the meantime we will do all in our power to ensure that we damage $inn Fein's vote in the coming election.

For those who died we'll not forget.

author by Noc Llorrocpublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 20:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Con- do you support Sinn Féin and their move further towards confirming their part in the politiical establishment? Con will you vote SF in the upcoming election? Who will you vote for? Do you not think that a vote for SF will be a vote for Ahern in Government? SF want to do a deal with Ahern and FF. Do you not see that SF are not part of any fight back against the political establishment? SF voted in cuts when in Government in North and when in Local Authorities (remember Sligo?). Get real Con, SF are no alternative. Neither are deadend RSF's sectarian methods.

author by tomaspublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 20:46author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"i'd also just like to say that right now there are republicians throughout this country that are opposed to the move on policing and these disaffected republicians would consider a move away from sf if there was a viable alternative. maybe rsf and the 32csm should consider some real policies before they turn up at the next sinn fein ard fheis with 10 or 12 protestors."

I think RSF's alternative is Eire Nua.

author by phil k - nonepublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 21:38author address author phone Report this post to the editors

RSF http://www.rsf.ie/

EIRE NUA http://www.rsf.ie/eirenua.htm

SAOL NUA http://www.rsf.ie/saolnua.htm

As RSF has maintained from 1986, where the provisionals find themselves today isexactly as they mapped it out. RSF showed that when former comrades turn their backs on the all Ireland Republic the only place you go is into the apparattus of the paritioned state. Everything RSF claimed has come to fruition.Noone can deny they were wrong.

Authentic Republicanism is the alternative, not crass mainstream politics.

author by guydebordisdeadpublication date Tue Jan 30, 2007 22:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think a lot of the failures of Republicanism are inherent in the ideology of Republicans. If you think that uniting a nation is more important than the plight of the people of that nation then you're onto a loser from the start.

Republicans should now make a push and become actual revolutionaries, get over the chip on their shoulders in regard to the left and realise that a united Ireland can't come about through their nationalist rhetoric.

author by radical jonnypublication date Wed Jan 31, 2007 09:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I read the Eire Nua and Saol Nua Documents with interest. Though I'm not a Republican (or a Unionist... I remain an anarchist, thank you), it's very well thought out and needs to be taken seriously as a political programme.

The one thing I always wonder about is how the Unionists are going to be convinced to sign on board to this. I work as a community worker in a Loyalist area; it certainly would be interesting to attend the public forums set up by RSF to explain this progamme in areas like the Shankill and Ballymacarret. RSF isn't expecting the British government to do all the convincing are they? Better stop writing everything in Irish. It'd be a good start anyway...

Also, once Eire Nua is set up, I guess it'll be the job of the new police force to put down the loyalist paramilitaries who might be in some way still 'opposed' to the new arrangement . As there's nothing in the documents about security measures or the secret intelligence apperatus by which every state maintains itself, that'll need to be thought out. Curfews? Internment maybe?

Sounds like just another 'State' to me...

author by Con Carrollpublication date Wed Jan 31, 2007 14:01author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Noc/Sharon

allow me to quote Martin Mc Guinness words after the resignation of Harney thats is she did resign from the quasi fascist leader-ship of PDS.

Martin said that Sinn Fein would be willing to do political business with Mc Dowell

Sinn Fein elected TD Sean Crowe said at last years Ard Fheis. that he was ready for government are they ready for him.

as for ex F F members presumed to be leading S F with FF. you better speak to Mary Lou about this.

Sinn Fein leader-ship have said that they could not see F F in political government with S F.
people will have to wait and see if the S F leader-ship will do a deal with a political deal with FF

I now openly say I for one would oppose such a political approach.
if this was to happen we on the left of politics have failed in putting across our political socialist class analysis.

we have to work on the ground with people who are opposed to this cosy cartel of corrupt politicians in the Dail.

we have to continue working for a society which opposes the economic political power of the right. which stands with people who are asylum seekers. opposing the racist language of Kenny, Rabbittee. were one will find that this is not sexy politics

I make no apolopgises for believeing in class based politics

Gerry Adams has said quite openly that S F is a party which wants political power.

the thoughts of Gerry Mc Gough standing as Independent in Tyrone is frightening.

author by Patrick Henrypublication date Wed Jan 31, 2007 15:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I think that Gerry Mc Geough isn't $inn Fein's only worry, I believe that those other Republicans standing against the $hinners will do a certain amount of damage to the electoral dreams of the Fascist $inn Fein leadership. They've pawned everything for a place in a Paisleyite Government and it's time that all true Republicans got together to bankrupt them.
Even if we get enough people out to loose them at least one seat, then that's a beginning. They must pay for their deceit and treachery and the only way to hurt them on behalf of those they sent out to die is through the ballot. box

author by Sharon . - Individual .publication date Wed Jan 31, 2007 20:29author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi Con !

I believe Mr McGuinness and his party will do business with whichever entity can offer them a cabinet seat - either North or South . They are a politically 'younger' version of Fianna Fail , and are on the way to 'mature' into a facsimile of same . Some in their leadership will finish their days in a cosy office in Brussels , where they will be considered by like-minded political careerists to be 'statesmen' . Just like whats-his-name who served time for republican activities , then joined (and assisted in leading) the 'Workers' Party' before seeing a 'New Agenda' on his (Democratic) 'Lef't , which he promptly took over .
I forget the mans name , but he had a beard , too......
;-)

Sharon .

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
author by Con Carrollpublication date Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:13author address author phone Report this post to the editors

can I suggest that we wait for another miracle
as the one that we have seen at Knock air-port
hopefully we all will have exclusive bank accounts instead of shoe boxes

author by Patrick Henrypublication date Sat Feb 03, 2007 15:18author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Adams has his eyes on McDowell's job, that's why he give the unsavory job of Paisley's number two to McGuinness. Listening to a lot of $hinners lately leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Their hypocrisy is amazing. I'm sure if Adams told them to inform on Dissident Republicans that they'd say "Sure times have changed and we have to move on."

author by Wolfe Tones Fanpublication date Sat Feb 03, 2007 15:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Maybe someone would inform on dissidents if the dissidents were doing anything except typing away on the internet about how awful everything is...

You walked away from the debate because you didn't like losing. You haven't achieved anything except murder civilians and you are going to sit on your arses and let FF win the next election without any serious challenge from the left, because you are too principled to vote for Sinn Fein (or vote at all in some cases). If I was you I'd keep quiet until I had something to talk about.

author by Patrick Henrypublication date Sat Feb 03, 2007 16:23author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Correct, those of us with principles still intact walked away from the debate because we didn't like losing and that's what $inn Fein have been doing since Adams gerrymandered the '86 Ard Fheis. Of course they might be winning at the polls but sure weren't the SDLP before the $hinners replaced them and we heard the same crap from them as we now hear from Adams and co. 'We must go into this and that to make gains'
We walked away because we are disgusted that the so called leadership surrenders principle after principle to Paisley and gets nothing in return except ridicule and humiliation.
There are those of us who aren't held in a stranglehold by a leadership who controls us through jobs funded by the Brits, therefore we don't have to act like parrots or nodding dogs.

As for $inn Fein and the Left. The only thing Left about $inn Fein is that they left Republicanism for a better life. Adams has his eyes on a coalition partnership with Ahern, therefore he would gladly let FF win the next election if there was anything in for him.

By the way I'm not a dissident but thank God I'm not a $hinner either.

author by Who?publication date Sat Feb 03, 2007 17:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Wolf Tone fan, we keep hearing this nonsense about we fought the war and you haven't even started yet [The usual leadership black propaganda]. The fact is, now the over whelming opposition to Sinn fein's grovelling for power is in the main those who have actually fought the war. Adams is left with those who have done well for themselves because of their association with Sinn Fein and remain faithful to their own selfish interests.

We can only grow stronger and will challenge the corruptness of Adams' Still Fantasizing Party. By the way you if I were you I'd keep quiet until I had something original and sensible to say.

author by WTFpublication date Sun Feb 04, 2007 00:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

When criticised, it might be wiser not to simply repeat your nonsense.

Face it, you're obsessed with Sinn Féin, and your only contribution to republicanism is to snipe and make nursery school jibes with your dollar signs and weak unfunny attempts to work the letters SF into something insulting.

Where are your campaigns? Where are your political insights? Where are you speakers and your fundraisers and your supporters? When is the next meeting? When will we see you in handcuffs at a protest march?

Are you out for the Bin tax protests? Have you done anything meaningful about Rossport? Have you challenged FF about the health service? Are you doing anything on Tara, or the occupation of Iraq, or racism, or job displacement, or housing being out of reach of ordinary people, or crime, or water charges, or policing?

No. Nothing coherent anyway. The only picket you could muster was the Sinn Finn Ard Fheis.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so pitiable.

author by Patrick Henrypublication date Mon Feb 05, 2007 13:35author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ah, WTF, just read your reply, typical nonsensical diatribe as usual. The same crap churned out by the SDLP when it was them who did all the sucking up to Unionists and the Brits. Where's your mandate? We've got more votes than you etc.
All these campaigns you talk about, never mind anyone else where's $inn Fein I don't hear any more from your party than I do from others on theses issues. As for the occupation of Iraq, please don't make me laugh, Sure didn't your party leadership present themselves at Hillsborough to Bush while he was in Ireland looking for support for his forthcoming invasion. $inn Fein were not found wanting when it came to standing by his side, even when those protesting outside asked them not to. Will we see the usual suspects from $inn Fein at the White house this Saint Patrick's day celebrating with the war criminal. You would be better asking your leadership to boycott it in protest at Bush's war against the Iraqi people.
I'm not a member of any dissident party, I'm a former IRA Volunteer and proud but I won't lend my support to a party that is copper-fastening partition.
By the way, Sinn Finn? and you accuse me of making up funny names.

author by Sharon . - Individual .publication date Mon Feb 05, 2007 18:17author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Hi WTF !

" Face it, you're obsessed with Sinn Féin, and your only contribution to republicanism is to snipe and make nursery school jibes with your dollar signs and weak unfunny attempts to work the letters SF into something insulting. "
The Provisionals do not need any help in that regard : they should have done the honourable thing and dropped the name years ago .

"Where are your campaigns? Where are your political insights? Where are you speakers and your fundraisers and your supporters? When is the next meeting? When will we see you in handcuffs at a protest march?"
Republicans have always had various campaigns running at the same time , WTF - and not only in connection with the British presence . I am surprised you never noticed them ! "Political insights" can be found , amongst other places , on the websites of the various organisations , "speakers" are on view at the events organised by said groups (ie Easter and other republican commemorations) , there are no shortage of "fundraisers" (ie ballad sessions) to attend [again organised by the various groups] at which you can chat away to "supporters" of said organisations !

"Are you out for the Bin tax protests?"
Yes , actually ! Here in this part of Clondalkin we are very much involved in the campaign against this double tax . By the way , one of those who stated that the bin tax should be paid is a PSF councillor in Tallaght , and didn't a Mr McManus in Sligo gain 'promotion' in the Council there due to his support for said double tax ?

" Have you done anything meaningful about Rossport? "
As much as can be done , I believe : messages of support , taking part in Shell pickets and protest marches etc .

"Have you challenged FF about the health service? Are you doing anything on Tara, or the occupation of Iraq, or racism, or job displacement, or housing being out of reach of ordinary people, or crime, or water charges, or policing? "
Yes ! Read the websites of the different groups . It couldn't be easier for you or anyone else to find the answers to those types of questions .

"No. Nothing coherent anyway. The only picket you could muster was the Sinn Finn Ard Fheis."
Actually that was the second RSF picket held that same weekend - on the Saturday there was a two-hour picket held at the GPO in Dublin concerning Bloody Sunday and the prisoners issue .

"It'd be funny if it wasn't so pitiable. "
Your whole post , you mean ... ?

Sharon .

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
author by Armagh Republicanpublication date Tue Feb 06, 2007 16:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Was the sacrifice of so many worth the achievement of so little?
Answers on an election manifesto please

author by Who?publication date Wed Feb 07, 2007 15:37author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Just read a letter from Martin McGuinness in today's Irish News. The most nauseous part of it all is were he states, 'Irish Republicans played an historic ( that word again! ) role in demolishing the British empire...... '
Er, sorry Martin many give their lives in attempting to demolish British rule, while you and those who continue to blindly follow you have undermined their sacrifice and are now reinforcing Britain's presence here by your willingness to participate in a Government which under the leadership of Ian Paisley will ensure we remain a part of the British Empire.
You should stop trying to play the part of the great Irish Revolutionary when you and the rest of your party can't even stand up to Paisley and continuously give in to his demands which are aimed at humiliating Republicans. You have nothing left to give and still he holds you up for ridicule.

author by John Boypublication date Wed Feb 07, 2007 16:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

800 years of oppression...

No retreat, no surrender....

Feck you, Paisley...

Continue in the same vein ad nauseaum.

Or you could just not compromise or make any concessions whatsoever and we can all go back to bombing? Hooray.

author by Patrick Henrypublication date Wed Feb 07, 2007 18:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why, John Boy, couldn't we have stopped bombing 30 years ago and countless lives would have been saved. Sure weren't we encouraged to attack physically and verbally those in the SDLP and the Stickies who merely advocated what the $hinners are now doing?
Apologists for the $inn Fein leadership keep churning out this garbage about times having changed and OK what is the alternative, do we keep on bombing?
No we don't keep on bombing or sending our youth out to die, but we don't drop on our knees begging for Unionist acceptance either. What does Unionist acceptance incur? The continued partition of our country, support for a British Police force involved in collusion under a former name which will never be brought to account. Politics were the interests of the Capitalist comes first and the working classes can bought off with promises of better things to come.
In short John Boy what you are saying is OK we'll just surrender, accept whatever crumbs they give us and make out we're working behind the scenes when in fact we're moving to the Right were the real money is. You can't be a Socialist and own holiday homes in Spain and Portugal can you?

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