Bus from Dublin to Shannon demo

by Anti-war supporter Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:50

I can remember in February 2003, more than 100,000 people marched through the centre of Dublin.
Now just a bus load.
The anti-war movement has suffered virtually 100% loss in support.
I'm staying at home because nobody cares or gives a shit about Iraq.
I can't make them.
It's just hopeless.

by anti-war irelander Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:51

How many issues have ever got 100,000 people on the streets and how often? Is that your benchmark? No 100,000, no interest? So, there must be almost no issue you're willing to bestir yourself for. Other than Catholic Emancipation and Papal visits (though I doubt they'd get the same numbers on a return visit).

This is the first large protest at shannon this year and it's important that good numbers turn up. The bus (or two) from Dublin will be joined by buses from Cork & Galway and by many people travelling by motor car, bike, and donkey & cart.

See yis at shannon :-)

by Red Rum Tue Oct 17, 2006 13:34

You activists have learned nothing, even when it's sooo obvious!
Buses use fossil fuels. To get cheap fossil fuels, we have to send our brave sevicemen and women out to secure it for us, in Iraqland, and Iranland.... So why DRIVE to Shannon to protest our oil getting missions?
And anyway, when you get there and walk up to the barriers, there will be a big load of cops (also transported using fossil fuels, but THEY show their support for the fossil fuel cycle, - God Bless them all) and even a few on horses to make sure you don't go where you want to go.
So, you'll burn fossil fuels, get penned in by cops on horses, to protest our legitimate right to burn petrol! Damn you wooly pinko liberals. This is why the left doesn't get elected, they don't have the spine to back up the rhetoric!

No, people, the answer is this...

Establish an ACTIVIST MOUNTED UNIT. and here's why...

-A couple of cops on horses does more crowd control than 20 on their feet.
-A couple of activists on horses on the other hand....
are less likely to be punched in the face by cops,
are more likely to be able to provide observer film footage, directions, or locate missing children in the crowd :)
-Two horses can be towed in a trailer behind a bio-fuel powered jeep or car!

Dudes, can you not see the synergy? It's crying out to be done.
Take your horse to the protest. There's no law against it AND... for all you wussy civil liberyy weeping mary's...
No, you don't have to produce a driving licence at the checkpoint if you're ON A HORSE!
So, you get a good view, can take better pics from the horse, and the extra bonuses for you tree hugging hippy types..
After a quick visit to the local chipper to refill your belly, and borrow some chip oil to fuel the car home, you can use the dung from your horse on your organic garden....

Doesn't your bus idea just seem so silly when you think about it?

See you there amigos!!!!

Peace!

by R. Isible Tue Oct 17, 2006 14:05

The last poster is a typical tree-hugging nay-sayer intent on undermining the armed forces. Withdrawing Our Troops from Iraq will mean that Ireland will use fossil fuels drawn from the Corrib gas fields. I have been assured on excellent authority, by those with the most unimpeachable credentials, an above average intelligence and (I would have said until I read your post) a unique writing style, that Ireland will benefit from the largesse of Shell and the miracle of international free markets and the security of supply generated by blowing up Willie Corduff's house to such an extent that Our Troops would be better deployed guarding our Security Of Supply in Mayo.

by Gaz B -(A)- Tue Oct 17, 2006 14:07

Shell To Sea are not against fossil fuels, they believe that the terminal should be put offshore..so what are you on about?

by Ciaron - Be There or Be Square! Tue Oct 17, 2006 14:27 At Large!

Dear Folks, Who have posted comments thus far.

If you're too exhausted, resigned or merely confuse being cymical with being sophisticated - take a break don't come! Remain in the virtual world of the internet, sounds like that's as much of the elements you can cope with presently. We'll be fine without you!

Shannon Airport saw the most significantt disruption of U.S troop deployment to the Iraq War thanx to noniolent direct action. A Dublin jury recently afiirmed the illegailty of the war and the legitimacy of nonviolent resistance to it www.peaceontrial.com The U.S. are now losing that war militarily. They are losing on the Afghanistan front and are about to open another front in Iran, It looks like the North Koreans may see this as the most opportune to fight them on a fourth front. So yes the war is escalating and expanding and it's time to return to Shannon for those of us who oppose this madness!

The most dramatic resistance to the war is now coming from within the U.S. military and we will be joined by three members of Iraq Veterans Against the War at Shannon on Sat Oct 28th. 2pm
"Cynicism is the 5th column of the establishment!"
"The secret to life is showing up!" Woody Guthrie
See you there.

by G Tue Oct 17, 2006 14:40

Solidarity.

Monbiot (George) mentions the Shannon Five in today's Guardian.
Editorial Section.

http://www.guardian.co.uk

(am not a Monbiot fan ;-) )

by Update Tue Oct 17, 2006 14:46

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1923914,00.html

by the digger Tue Oct 17, 2006 14:49

"anti war" be replaced by "anti western wars" only?

No one in the anti war movement seems fit to organise a demonstration outsdie the Chinese embassies in protest at their support of the repressive regimes in Zimbabwe and the Sudan.

No protests against the genocide in Darfur either. Why is the anti war movement an excercise in western self loathing only?

by Lol Tue Oct 17, 2006 14:55

It's not cynicism, it's humour... those posters obviously support the demo, and the rossport, five. They're just satirising the stereotypes used AGAINST those campaigns. Great to see your hard work Ciaron, but if you're losing your ability to spot humour, maybe take an hour off, and go walk in the park.
Nice to see a bit of satire!

by Fintan Lane - Anti-War Ireland Tue Oct 17, 2006 15:02 info at antiwarireland dot org

The procession from Shannon town centre will take the form of a mock-funeral in memory of the dead of Iraq, Afghanistan and the United States. Following the rally, we intend to lay flowers across the entrance to the airport as a mark of respect for those who have suffered as a result of the war machine that trundles through Shannon on a daily basis.

So, please, bring flowers with you to Shannon and let's bury the road in flora. Consider wearing black and encourage everybody you know to turn up. Home-made placards and banners particularly welcome.

by me Tue Oct 17, 2006 15:06

Sounds good.

by Auntie Anti Tue Oct 17, 2006 15:16

No.. It's not self loathing. It's actually taking responsibility for your own country and leaders.

Here's what your snotty soundbyte misses.

Western Wars are not excused by comparing them to Pol Pot or Stalin.
People with Limited time, have to choose what they can work on. If I was living in the Asian sphere of influence, I'd be doing more on the Korea's, China, Japan's creeping militarims, and Indonesia... but we live very much inside the Western sphere, economically and politically linked to London and US business interests.
There's no point worrying about being criticised for not doing a piece of theatre about North Korea. It's a closed dictatorship, they don't have an embassy here, or business links, and nothing to bargain with Ireland, so those efforts would have zero chance of being noticed. It wouldn't even have the effect of showing solidarity to the people of N. Korea, because they don't get to see TV from the outside world...
But, actions against Irish involvement in US wars has had some effects, and has pi$$ed off the white house enough for them to have Haas make condemnations, and the govt have to run for cover. Weak as democracy is (flawed and relatively new when you consider how long we've had universal franchise) the power of the public is able to cause change, and people who use it, are part of a proud history of dissenters against unrestrained power. It would be apathy to do nothing about our own country, and hypocrisy to point out other countries flaws, while not railing against our own goverments bloody hands. So, what are you saying, you prefer apathy and hypocrisy?
It's actually a compliment to our commitment to freedom, that we are concentrating our efforts where we believe it can be most effective, and were it can ensure that these same rights are kept renewed... a tribute to those who fought so long to get them for us.
Shame on you for forgetting their sacrifice! Tsk, Tsk, must try harder... : )

by Bemused - None Tue Oct 17, 2006 15:20

Good idea. Please honour all the war dead.

by Antie Anti again. Tue Oct 17, 2006 15:23

A personal anecdote.
I met your kind before...

At an Anti-Iraq war demo, some guy comes up sneering.

"How come I don't see you organising protests against the Chinese Government"

and, boy how I loved delivering my reply...

"Well, you didn't see me protesting against the Chinese president's visit to Ireland last month, but do you know why?"

"No. Why?"

"Because I WAS there and YOU weren't. Hypocrite"

[sound of rapid descent from Moral High Ground---- THUD ]

Digger, if your so outraged, you organise a protest. If you say you havent' seen one, perhaps it;'s because you don't go there yourself. In which case, you may qualify for the subs bench on the hurlers on the ditch all stars team! Keep it up, you might make the starting line up! : )

Ain't got no time for 'whatabouters'... except when they amuse me by becoming targets for remarks like that.

Now. Troll, unless you can keep amusing us, go away. We have things to do, like commemorate the death, and show solidarity with the living.
Well done to AWI for organising this.

by A- A Tue Oct 17, 2006 15:25

proof reader I ain't. I promise to be more thorough with my banners and placards though. See you in Shannon!

by A10 Tue Oct 17, 2006 21:02

too much of a mess with your flowers,and all the other unenviromently friendly crap and litter you all left there at the last major demos.We only had to clean up about a ton of litter.Take yourselves and your litter home.

by antiwar Tue Oct 17, 2006 21:20

we'll make nothing like the mess your customers made of baghdad and the rest of iraq.

by factoid Tue Oct 17, 2006 21:29

Flowers, being organic, will merge with the earth and nourish it. They fertilise and are good for the environment. US cluster bombs, depleted uranium bullets and missiles, on the other hand, are designed to end life, wreck property and destroy the environment.

I'll be bringing flowers to Shannon airport to nourish life in this pitstop of death.

by Freesia Tue Oct 17, 2006 21:35

Anyone who tries to make a difference in this country is subject to a blatancy of negative trolling,
its a hobby for the bewildered.

Solidarity.

don't take on the trolls , unless you feel you can elicit intelligent discussion from
them-which I may add is highly unlikely....

There are two issues from this observation:

1. That these people are involved in a vicious campaign which is organised to undermine
the work of some organisations.
2. They really are afraid to look honestly at the problems caused by our involvment
in war-which suggests that they are in denial of the kind of society we are creating for our
children.

The relentlessness of the attacks on specific campaigns suggests that the troll
is a creature of fear and loathing, who recognises their overt complicity in mass
consumption practices and corrupt government-this means they can be changed
through persistent campaign and knowlege dissemination.

However...maybe they are just sick people and best left alone.

by Auntie Anti Tue Oct 17, 2006 22:57

People unfamiliar with this particular troll should note his infallible logic making another appearance.

1. An A-10 is an aircraft that shoots nuclear waste

2. Shannon Airport itself was caught dumping rubbish on Delgnish Island, which is against its own bye laws and encourages birds to congregate... even though it's next to a runway...

3. Shannon has been pumping untreated sewage into the estuary, which is a Special Area of Conservation.

Good to see you back... I've missed laughing at your efforts to defend destruction of people, their property and the environment in general. Don't leave it so long next time. We were worried about you.

by Hearts and Minds Tue Oct 17, 2006 23:20

From Newsnight.
Iraq War veterans discuss the shoot em up policy.
Shoot up the landscape... keep shovels or AK 47s on your truck.
You see anyone, shoot em. Say they were digging a hole for an IED or had an Ak47.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNfrCklURkA&NR

And here, the US tank crew finds men out 'looting' wood. Or perhaps scavening to survive in a warzone as some might call it. They decide in their ultimate wisdom to drive over the Iraqi's car with their tank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVTjEbwMro&NR

by AWIer Tue Oct 17, 2006 23:30

Remember as well the public meeting on Thurs, 26th October, at 7.30pm in the ATGWU hall on Middle Abbey St, which will be addressed by three former Abu Ghraib interrogators who are members of Iraq Vets Against the War.

by me Wed Oct 18, 2006 00:01

Cork AWI are holding a public meeting after Shannon. Two of the ex-interrogators - Stephen Lewis and Tony Lagournais - will be speaking.

When: 8pm, Tuesday, 31 October

Where: Quality Hotel, John Redmond Street, Cork

All welcome and admission free.

by Ciaron Wed Oct 18, 2006 02:13

Lol,

I can assure you I'm as relaxed as anyone can be facing a 28 hour long haul from OZ to Dub. "Relaxed and comfortable" in John Howard's Australia and looking forward to my my first public return to shannon in 3 1/2 years since our disarmament action. The irish state don't look to relaxed they have had 40 Garda and the army waiting for us down there since the press conference following our acquittal.

Lol, generally speakin, If ya gotta explain it - it's no joke!
Irish government defends Irish neutrality!....no explanation required, it's a joke!

Pakistan secret service really interested in finding Bin Laden and ending their heavilly U.S. financed hunt. That's a joke that might require expanation with edification.

If those posts were humourous, the quality is so low it could only find a place on a website in cyberspace, if they played live those boys would be booed off any stage or soap box.

Back in the '30's before the purge of Hollywood...the "Lil Rascals" would make the rich and powerful the butt of their jokes. Now "Lil Britain" makes the disabled, gay, marginalised, old & fat the butt of there's for max laughs. That's how the times have been a changin' on the humour front. A general retreat to soft targets like what's left of the anti-war movement in Ireland. Maybe these posters you rush to defend - could sharpen their satirical skills on their government facilitating the Shannon assembly line of death for young Americans and Iraqis. Just a thought. see you soon.

by Deaglain O'Breaduin Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:23

Fair play to you fine folks who are willing to go to Shannon and force the US military out of Shannon. Naturally I like any other morally driven Irish person, want Shannon to return to its proper role of a national airport and not that of a military base.

However my practical nature forces me to ask why are we placing so much focus on Shannon. Surely if the true aim of the resistance is to end the war then dealing with Shannon is like pissing in the wind. Even if you force an end to use of Shannon as a military base, the troops will just be moved through another country. The net result will be that the same troops get to Iraq to commit the same attrocites. Where is the victory in that or is that just a pyhric (forgive the spelling) victory.

Should the focus not be on the real culprits in this war i.e. Britain, America and Australia (maybe you could explain this Ciaron). Surely with so few troops in the Anti-war movement it would be wiser to focus them on fewer targets.

Also Ciaron I would really like to know how you can be so harsh on the Irish Governement while you can somehow be so comfortable in Howards Australia. As I have said before:

Australia is actively participating in this war killing innocent Iraqis
Australia provides the facilities that aim the bombs on Iraq
Australia has the largest green house gas emmissions per capita in the world
Australia has recently overthrown the democratically elected Government of East Timor

I have no problem with the fact that you want to help make Ireland a better place but who the hell do you think you are to belittle Ireland when you come from a country which is stil a nation of convicts run by convicts.

Seems to me that you are just another egotist who doesnt want to shit in his own backyard.

by homebird Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:52

I live in Dublin and will focus on my own government's complicity with the Bush war machine. No fucking way am I treking to Britain or Aussieland!!! There's no shortage of Brits and Aussies to challenge their governments and more power to them!

Obviously, though, the nasty subtext of your message, is that Ciaron should stay out of Ireland (his father's homeland) and stay in Australia. Yawn. This is the 21st century - people move around. Activism is global and so it should be. An interaction with activists from abroad strengthens both us and them.

Pax.

by Lol Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:23

Yes, Deckie,

the do- nothing approach is very worthwhile.
Tell everyone that there's no point, cos someone else will do it.
However, if we were talking about appeasing Al Qaeda, then suddently we would have the domino effect argument.
Because we're appeasing the US military, it's fine.
One less country for them to refuel, makes it harder for them, and easier for another country to ignore the sad 'somebody else would' argument you put forward.

Well, if WE don't sell nuclear technology to the North Koreans, then it's a cinch that somebody else will ... ABB Inc. (which sold nuclear tech to N.Korea while D. Rumsfeld was on it's board)

Well, if WE don't sell chemical weapons to Saddam, then it's a cinch that somebody else will - various companies, politicians in US, Germany and UK among others - back when Saddam was 'OUR Bastard'.

Well, if WE don't bomb their country back to the stone age, destabilising their food chain, inflicting hurt and misery, which diminishes the reputation of our own country, and sowing the seeds for fanatical violence and extremism that will someday come back to haunt us, THEN SOMEBODY ELSE WILL. - various people, at various times through history.

Now, Ciaron, happier with that sarcasm? : )

by Ciaron Wed Oct 18, 2006 15:41 Singapore Airport

Deago,

Australia and Ireland share the same special relationship with the U.S. It's called "faking orgasm while being raped!"

In terms of gut churning sycophantic ritual, the Irish imperial tithe of a bowl of Shamrocks at the White House every St. Patrick's Day take some beating. But the Australian celebration of the mass slaughter in the invasion of Turkey in WW1 is in hot pursuit.

Deago, you've really got that colonised Irish confusion between being contrary and rebelious real bad. You have a cultivated ignorance that took a lot of hard work in achieving. Deago, there is an enormous Irish diaspora...three of em returned to Ireland to join two locals in carrying out the disarmament action at Shannon 3/2/06 Probably the most significant civilian disruption to the U.S. deployment to Iraq the western peace movement came up with. Earlier posted concerns on this thread about numbers of buses are irrlevant. Look what 5 people did on Feb 3 03 - compare and contrast it with 100,000 on Feb 15 03. Numbers are irrelvant in terms of significance.

Take a chill pill on the convict thang dude....it's starting to sound like projected self hatred. The Irish convicts had less culpability than the "free settlers" in the genocidal history of Australia.

by Nancy Reagan Wed Oct 18, 2006 16:02

How did we get from a Bus to Shannon to discussing the OZ penal colonies?

were there easy steps-and is anyone going or is everyone too busy taking the absolute

piss to actually care.

btw- interesting rape analogy, if a little heavy.

by christ- this is an interesting site.

by Justin Morahan - Peace People (private capacity) Fri Oct 27, 2006 13:45

Like you, I want the US and all other military to stop using Shannon airport for war purposes. (I have no problem with Shannon being used to help ship the troops home.)

You say then that, however, your practical nature forces you to ask why "we" are placing so much focus on Shannon. I took it that by saying "we" you included yourself and were just asking a rhetorical question which would be answered immediately to convince the unconvinced.

Sadly disappointed, I gulp at the despair (and did I detect some throwing of cold water?) evident in your very next sentence: "Surely if the true aim of the resistance is to end the war then dealing with Shannon is like pissing in the wind". Even more disappointed to read the old canard that if Shannon isn't used, another country's airport will be, and the end result will be the same.

This last sentiment would be akin to saying (as the Irish Government did) that if we didn't sell beef to Saddam Hussein, some other country would. Shake off the moral dilemma on economic grounds as always.

I am even more disappointed to find that what I had hoped would be a reasoned argument descended rapidly into a diatribe against Ciaron O'Reilly. If you had been following recent posts on the Internet you would have known that Ciaron has been actively protesting against Australia's part in the war and other atrocities.
He has worked on behalf of the Aborigines and shown his solidarity with them.

It was your last comments, however, that riled me and force this reply. You say (to your shame, in my opinion):

"I have no problem with the fact that you want to help make Ireland a better place but who the hell do you think you are to belittle Ireland when you come from a country which is stil a nation of convicts run by convicts.
Seems to me that you are just another egotist who doesnt want to shit in his own backyard."

Convicts? Like the ones from the Fields of Athenry? Are you a racist? Or just venting nasty, ugly, hate-filled spleen that does you little credit?

In spite of all that, if you want to picket the US or British or Australian Embassies, just let me know and I'll gladly join you.