israel invades southern lebanon again

by redjade Thu Jul 13, 2006 01:10

CNN International today was calling the Israeli soldiers held in Lebanon 'kidnapped'

BBC World was calling the Israeli soldiers held in Lebanon 'captured'

by Caobhin Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:02

The current Israeli regime is shitting on and abusing the memory of their "forebears". The constant invoking of the memory of the Holocaust to jusitify Israeli aggression is despicable, 2 soldiers get kidanpped and 20 civilians die. The 10:1 ratio again eh?

by rawr Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:06

To be honest the incursion came from the other side first, and in doing that they knew what the zionists would do in response, no sympathy from any other countries on this one and rightly so as the zionists are entitled to respond against an incursion over the blue line

by LaLa Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:15

Israel is totally at fault in this, its just started bombing Lebannon and blockading it, lots of civilians are being killed all over the place. If it was the other way round the Yanks would be jumping up and down about this. The government here should kick their embassy out. Come on Bertie !

by David L - IPSC Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:38

A couple of facts. Israel is occupying part of Lebanon - the Shebaa farms (or some such spelling). While Israel claims this is part of Israeli-occupied Syria, Syria itself has said no, it's Lebanon.

This is an ongoing act of war. You may think Hezbollah might be wrong in a moral sense in fighting against the occupiers – fair enough. However, they aren’t breaching any international laws so long as they confine their attacks to military targets

Secondly, Hezbollah didn't capture these soldiers for the hell of it, but to try to negotiate the release of the many Lebanese that are still languishing in Israeli jails. Israel has refused to release them otherwise.

by incorrect Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:52

They broke international law when they stepped over the blue line to kidnap soldiers, in fact they gave the zionists the perfect excuse to go in and give them a good pounding, no country can condemn zionists action

The Blue Line:
On June 7 the completed map showing the withdrawal line was formally transmitted by the Force Commander of UNIFIL to his Lebanese and Israeli counterparts. Notwithstanding their reservations about the line, the Governments of Israel and Lebanon confirmed that identifying this line was solely the responsibility of the United Nations and that they would respect the line as identified. On June 8, UNIFIL teams commenced the work of verifying the Israeli withdrawal behind the line.

On June 16, the Secretary-General reported to the Security Council that Israel had withdrawn its forces from Lebanon in accordance with resolution 425 (1978) and met the requirements defined in his report of May 22, 2000; namely, Israel had completed the withdrawal in conformity with the line identified by the United Nations, South Lebanese Army militia had been dismantled, and all detainees held at Al-Khiam prison had been freed.[2]

The withdrawal line has been termed the Blue Line in all official UN communications since.

by David L - IPSC Thu Jul 13, 2006 13:33

Ay I did some more fact checking on the Shebaa farms. While the Lebanese government and the Arab League recognise that it is Lebanese territory, and the Syrian government has orally declared that the Shebaa farms are Lebanese, Syria hasn’t notified the UN of its position officially. So, from the UN perspective, Shebaa remains part of Israeli-occupied-Syria rather than Israeli-occupied-Lebanon and thus for the moment, behind the Blue Line. So that’s justification enough to destroy Lebanon then, and kill as many Lebanese as it takes, I guess.

My fact checking also revealed many Israeli violations of Lebanese territory over the last number of years. I don't believe that this would justify Lebanon causing carnage in Israel, but if I were to argue this - I suppose rawr/by incorrect would be forced to agree.

by Righteous Pragmatist Thu Jul 13, 2006 13:35

The IDF and Jewish settlements were withdrawn from Gaza last summer, a gesture by the Israelis to established good faith in advance of peace negotiations with the PA.
However Hamas protrayed the withdrawl as an Israelis defeat and therefore justification for the intifada and terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. Hamas has become the dominant force in Palestinian politics after recent elections and challenges the Fatah and PLO terrorist movements found by Yasser Arafat. Gaza though to terrorist funding from Iran and Syria has become a launch pad for rocket attacks on southern Israel. The deaths of Israeli soldiers and the captured of an Israeli two weeks ago and continued rocket attacks and attempted sucide attacks on Israel have made the Israeli military crackdown necessary/
Meanwhile though Syrian forces have been withdrawn from Lebanon after the assassination of Hairi last year, the Hezbollah terrorist movement that is supported by Damascus and Teheran has cabinet members in Lebanese government. They authorised the attacks in northern Israel.
Israel is therefore under attack from two sides while Syria and Iran the two countries who are pulling the strings have WMD programs. Syria has battlefield tested poison gas on the people of Darfur with co-operation of the Islamist government in Khartoum, Sudan while Iran is trying to use the cover of a civilian nuclear program to acquire military grade enriched uranium for a nuclear bomb. The Iranian President believes Israel should be wiped off the map. This ideology is reflected in the charter of Hamas that sees the destruction of Israel as the goal of the Palestinian struggle.
Israel has every right to defend itself from foreign aggression against its people and its territory.

by rawr Thu Jul 13, 2006 14:06

but Israel does not tolerate as a soverign nation a terrorist organisation running rampant on its borders (Hizbollah-founded and funded by Iran) where as lebonon does, hizbollah routinely fires rockets into the north and in return israel routinely shells hizbollah positions--
UN resolution 1559
On September 2, 2004, the UN Security Council adopted UN Security Council Resolution 1559, coauthored by France and the United States. Echoing the Taif Agreement, the resolution "calls upon all remaining foreign forces to withdraw from Lebanon" and "for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias." Lebanon is currently in violation of Resolution 1559 over its refusal to disband the military wing of Hizbollah.

Israel has stated time and time again--if lebanon wont disarm them Israel will, they have now foolishly given Israel that oppurtunity and they dont have a legal leg to stand on as they infringed the blue line--why else do you think lebanon denies any knowledge? israel will use this oppurtunity to weaken hizbollahs illegal military wing

by redjade Thu Jul 13, 2006 14:28

What country in the world today could get away with attacking a civilian international airport?

Regarding Shannon Airport, the argument for attacking a civilian airport should worry Irish readers....

'The Israeli military confirmed it had targeted the airport because it “is a central hub for the transfer of weapons and supplies to the Hizballah terrorist organization.” '
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid...=8560

I don't think even the US could get away with it - Sure, there was Saddam Int'l Airport but one cannot say people didn't know it was going to be attacked in the weeks before.

Watching the BBC now and seeing video images of bombs dropping on this civilian airport with civilian jets parked on the runways just makes me wonder two things:

a) How is it that CNN/BBC just happened to get these shots? Were they alerted to the possibility of attack beforehand? If they knew beforehand, remember this incident in the future when journalists are targeted in the Middle East.

b) Why doesn't the BBC/CNN do what they would do for any other attack on public transportation anywhere else in the world - go to the scene and interview terrorised, frieghtened travellers and their crying scared kids who cannot get home because they have been caught in the crossfire of a war they had nothing to do with. (compare and contrast this coverage with some of the recent coverage of Mumbai Bombings and other terrorist incidents in recent past)

Also note: Yesterday CNN Int'l showed the Israeli UN Ambassador live for 10+ minutes. Do I even need to bother mention that the Palestinian UN Ambassador's remarks were not?

Arab Tourists are considered Terrorists (No 'Human Interest' stories required)

by Caobhin Thu Jul 13, 2006 14:41

Israel has every right to defend itself from foreign aggression against its people and its territory.

And the Palestinians or Lebanese don't? And, aside from the current butchery of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, did the murder of Irish UN troops in Lebanon by Israeli agents and proxies qualify as "defence against foreign agression"?

israel will use this oppurtunity to weaken hizbollahs illegal military wing

Sure they will, are you forgetting Hiz'ballah wiped out Shin'Bet in Lebanon in 1983? There was no Hiz'ballah until 1982,when during the Israelis previous invasion they were crushed on the beaches of Chantila by a previously unknown group of milita. who later became Hiz'ballah. I wonder what dragons teeth the Israeli murder machine are sowing now.

by rawr Thu Jul 13, 2006 14:48

it blew a hole in its runways, doubt any civilians would be talking a stroll down the runway do you? the airport is widely known to transport in arms for hizbollah, perhaps this will finally convince lebanon to stand up for itself and demand hizbollahs military wing disbands, but id doubt syria or Iran would allow this, nicely deflects attention away from iran and its nuclear programme though, hizbollahs masters must be pleased

by re:mix Thu Jul 13, 2006 15:00

it blew a hole in its runways, doubt any civilians would be talking a stroll down the runway do you? the airport is widely known to transport in arms for the United States, perhaps this will finally convince Ireland to stand up for itself and demand US Republican Party's military wing disbands, but id doubt Britain or Israel would allow this, nicely deflects attention away from AQ Khan and Pakistani nuclear programme though, America's masters must be pleased

by The Cat Thu Jul 13, 2006 15:44

No, right first time. The celebratory gunfire in Lebanon yesterday (unreported by media) attests to that.

The incoming is continuous, both gunfire and aerial bombardment.

by Paul R - . Thu Jul 13, 2006 16:08 tarbhmaith at imagine dot ie

Robert Frisk made a good point yesturday evening Today FM. Where as previously Israel was fighting to crush arab nationalisms and rob their land, now they are fighting Islamist nations both of whom have a more fundalmentalist agenda than the PLO.

Even more interesting, as previously stated earler, the Hezbollah did not exist pre the Israeli illegal occupation of Lebanon in the 80s. In fact the militia was created out of the hitherto peaceful shiite peoples of southern Lebanon.

Need I also remind the readers that Hamas were encouraged and financially backed by the Israeli government as a counterweight against the predominantly secular PLO.

For a young country such as Israel is it any wonder the citizens of that country have never experienced a true peace when the Israeli politicians/army make such bad choices that they believe will improve their security.

If I was an Israeli I would hate my government "if this is security then I am not satisfied" to misqoate jim page

by The Cat Thu Jul 13, 2006 16:34

"doubt any civilians would be talking a stroll down the runway do you?"

Civilian planes land on runways though.

by Arhtur Kennedy Thu Jul 13, 2006 16:39

"
Civilian planes land on runways though."

Nott today, but perhaps once Lebanon takes on Hezbollah.
Hezbollah OCCUPIES southern Lebanon

by righteous pragmatist Thu Jul 13, 2006 16:45

So you think that Islamic terrorists have the right to blow up Shannon?
Do you support Al-Qaeda and the Iraqi insurgents as well?
But then Hamas and Hezbollah are Islamic terrorists too.
They share the same ideology "Death to America, Death to Israel, Death to Jews, Death to the West blah blah blah"
American liberated Iraqis from Saddam and gave them parliamentary democracy and the Irish government have a duty to help them in any way possible.
The Lebanese government however is openly facilitating terrorism against Israel.
If they wish to attack innocent Israeli civilians then they must pay the price.
These scum have to pay.

by Caobhin Thu Jul 13, 2006 17:07

Excellent point and well put, any criticism of Israeli agression equals support for Al Qiada and blowing up Shannon airport and of course all such critics are anti-semitic as well don't forget.

How much blood do you want before "These scum have to pay.".? 10 Arabs per Israeli, 20? 30? Maybe the whole of Lebanon? Why not Damascus and Tehran while you're at it?

by iosaf Thu Jul 13, 2006 17:45

They concern - language used in coverage and precognition of the Beirut airport attack.
Yesterday I put up "part 9" of Hariri's game , a series I've written on Lebanon since February '05.
I deliberated over what word to use, and I chose "Hezbolah holds Israeli troops" http://indymedia.ie/article/77195 JD correctly pointed out very quickly on this thread that US media chose "Hezbolah kidnaps Israelis" and the BBC f(ollowed later by SKY) chose "Hezbolah captures Israeli troops". European print media today have chosen words best translated by "kidnap"- "sequestered". Yesterday afternoon the IDF destroyed bridges and roads in southern Lebanon, whilst the Israeli ambassador to the UN was given his ten minutes on US TV (which JD also highlighted) the leader of Hezbolah was getting his ten minutes on BBC. The attack on the bridges was not a great surprise - the excuse though was. "Its to stop Hezbolah moving the Israeli soldiers about". Meaning the IDF believe those held troops are still in southern Hezbolah heartland Lebanon?
The hours ticked by..... The first news agency to cover the attack on the Beirut agency was the BBC. They ran the 05h00 european time news with it. Followed immediately by Skynews, whilst the US news ignored the story and talked about Iran, Korea and Rumsfeld appealing for less sectarianism. Though quite incredibly Foxnews in one if its own advert spots thanked "its viewers in Israel" assuring them its coverage was unbiased.... Followed by "no coverage". Very clever those people in Fox.
Before those newscasts ended, details had emerged - that two runways had been destroyed- The only footage being used was of a pall of smoke over Beirut (presumedly over the airport). There did seem to be an impression that the airport was the most valuable target - its prestigious for the Lebanese and a "peace dividend".

We know how it goes. Israel declares war - peace dividends are gone. everybody back to Go!
will we have little blue helmets this time?

by barra Thu Jul 13, 2006 18:00

“If they wish to attack innocent Israeli civilians then they must pay the price.
These scum have to pay”

Israeli rulers decide to attack innocent human beings, as they had the means they can afford to brainwash people like you to in to thinking that there is a difference between state terrorism and terrorism.

It is logical that terrorism creates terrorism

Many, many, many people who live in Israel are ashamed of their government and suffer huge amounts of repression for refusing to accept the us vs them line that is constantly feed to them.

Soladarity and understanding should be should to the people of Israel who are against the military and power that dominates and causes suffering to so many people in that area of the world.

People like anarchists against the wall are an inspiration to many and offer some hope to the region.

Ignorance is a vile weapon when its in the hands of fundamentists (bombers and militants or powerful organizations like the Isreali government.

by iosaf Thu Jul 13, 2006 18:14

Israel has just blockaded their ports and also bombed the Lebanese military air facility at Bekaa Valley.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5177178.stm

Now to point ye all in the way that this war is different from the last one :-
There are now no Syrian troops or military advisors in Lebanon either at Bekaa or in Beirut.
There is now EU capital and civilian workers in a state from which the only exit is Syria.

I'll cover this with other press comments to "Hariri's game part 9 Hezbolah holds Israeli soldiers on Lebanese soil" - because that's what Lebanon is now - Lebanese soil

by viewer Thu Jul 13, 2006 18:34

Tiortap on the case http://toirtap.blogspot.com/ more of this kind of thing...

http://toirtap.blogspot.com/2006/06/advanced-semantics.html

Why does Israel 'detain' and Palestine 'kidnap'?

Yours sincerely,

The response was (received Friday):

"Fair point. We have put a message in our general mail to this effect.

Michael Good"

Where it was once 'kidnapped' it is now "captured."

A minuscule success, sort of.

Good to keep on RTE rather then overlooking it in favour of analysis more sexy interntional sources.(check out the on Cuba).

Elsewhere much talk of 'shells' landing or perhaps farily blasting the airport runway, I think the word they are looking for is rockets and bombing.

Sky news turned an accusation by Isreal that Hebollah was going to send the Isreal prisoners to Iran, tuned into a threat by Hebollah minutes later.

by Raymond Deane - ipsc Sat Jul 15, 2006 00:04

It's interesting that when Israel "withdrew" from Lebanon under Barak in 2000, it claimed (and this claim is now being repeated by itself and its fellow-travellers) to be doing so in accordance with UN Security Council resolution 425.

The interesting thing is that the resolution in question, of which Israel had suddenly discovered the validity, had been passed 22 years earlier!!

Subterfuge and lies are the means by which Israel justifies its crimes, and it can always find useful idiots to parrot the same foul rubbish. 15 M $ a day from the unwitting US taxpayer doesn't just buy an awful lot of weapons, but also an awful lot of propaganda and stooges willing to transmit it.

by Arthur Kennedy Sat Jul 15, 2006 02:28

"It's interesting that when Israel "withdrew" from Lebanon under Barak in 2000, it claimed (and this claim is now being repeated by itself and its fellow-travellers) to be doing so in accordance with UN Security Council resolution 425."

OK then, it's time to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559...but that never happened

by Ali Sat Jul 15, 2006 03:20

Missile hits civilian boat off Lebanon - Israel
Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:29 AM BST7
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JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A missile fired at an Israeli naval vessel off Lebanon hit a civilian boat, possibly from Egypt, the Israeli army said on Saturday.

A spokeswoman said those on board were believed to have been evacuated, adding it was unclear if there were any casualties.

After initially saying the missile had been fired at an Israeli vessel in a fresh strike early on Saturday, the spokeswoman later said it might have been part of an attack late on Friday when an Israeli warship was badly damaged.

Israeli media said the damaged missile ship was hit by an airborne drone packed with explosives.

Four Israeli troops were missing after the warship was hit in an attack claimed by Hizbollah, Al Jazeera television said, as violence escalated between Israel and the guerrilla group.

by iosaf Sat Jul 15, 2006 18:19

I think we went through the fulfillment of the resolution in Hariri's Game (part 5) on April 25th Mr Kennedy.
At least that's what the US, Lebanese and French state said at the time. & no matter what wikipedia says "today". If you bother reading Hariri's Game part 5 http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=69572 you will find the links to Israeli, Syrian and European media of the time saying :-
"UN resolution 1559 has now been accomplished". But I've ointed you in the direction of the Hariri's Game series before - so here's a lazy link & even lazier Cut and paste -

"With the completion of the Syrian forces' withdrawal from Lebanon, a new political era in the relations between the two brethren countries starts based on close cooperation in all fields," Lebanon's new Prime Minister Najib Mikati said.
Syria told the United Nations it had completed its pullout from Lebanon in line with Security Council resolution 1559.
Syria "would like to officially inform you that the Syrian Arab forces stationed in Lebanon, at the request of Lebanon and under an Arab mandate, have fully withdrawn all their military, security apparatus and assets," Foreign Minister Farouq al-Shara said in a letter to the world body.
........
Israel said it hoped a free and democratic Lebanon would emerge following Syria's withdrawal from the country and see the Lebanese army take over from Hizbollah guerrilla group control of the Lebanon side of the southern border. "After the Syrian occupation of Lebanon comes to an end, we hope to see the Hizbollah occupation end as well, and that we will see a free and democratic Lebanon living in peace and prosperity next to us," Vice Premier Shimon Peres said.

Great to see you've moved on from being a Hamas expert to an expert on implementation of UN resolution expert Mr Kennedy. from strength to strength eh? How are your UN resolutions on the West Bank & Golan?

*********************************************
Switzerland has become the second European state (after Spain) to withdraw its personel in Lebanon - some 50 Swiss citizens were evacuated this morning, mostly "VIP" types, there are believed to be almost 860 in total. The Swiss have been the most vocal in sustained condemnation of Israel this last month.
http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/detail/Swiss_nationa...59000

by iosaf Sat Jul 15, 2006 23:45

As we all know, one of the worst EU presidencies ever, (that of Austria) just ended. We know it was one of the worst presidencies ever because it focussed on unfinished business of the Austro-Hungarian empire in the Balkans instead of Europe's future security and development to the eastern Mediterranean; blocking Turkish accession, cutting funding to both Lebanon and the "hamas" Palestinian Authority.
But thankfully EU direction is now in the hands of the Finnish. Finland like Austria, Switzerland, Sweden & some would argue Ireland is a neutral state. Finland like Austria owes her neutrality and existence to the post WW2 settlement and Russian & Soviet diplomacy.

* Turkey is very upset at what's going on in Lebanon. Of course they would be. As I pointed out in comments to Hariri's game (part 9) http://www.indymedia.ie/article/77195 thats where the seasonal migrant workers from Lebanon go.
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=133775
Turkey is calling on the G8 (meeting in Russia) to say something. http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=133712
The russians have already seen a private meeting between Putin and Bush, and are now warning of the risk of regional conflict. which brings us back by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to the Golan Heights & ..... . Russia (which is the only "great power" to have negotiated directly with Hezbollah and Hamas in teh last year) has warned of "the serious risk of regional escalation". (That means dear reader - that Israel fights on another front let's suggest Syria and not Egypt for the moment / someone else attacks Israel lets suggest ming the merciless or Iran / the happy rocketeers of Hezbollah or pilots of the IAF hit the wrong boat / car nad its full of japanese tourists renowned for their taste for vengance )

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=133711 Of course on Fox news they'll just spin that as a nuke from Pyongyang.

Turkey though for the moment is restricting its diplomatic pleas to the G8 to a simple call for "a united action at UN level" they're not playing their NATO card. Let me remind you that Turkey's NATO card is very valuable. The Turkish are really a "key player" in NATO and helped delay the Iraq war and along with all of us protesting on the street ensured that war was a little bit more legal than it would otherwise have been.

But unfortuantely at the same time both Syria and Iran have dismissed the UN as a US puppet.
Gosh!
I wonder did those 2 Israeli conscripts really know what geo-political events their capture was going to put in motion?

But one thing I must say is, honestly I must!!! :- Everyone is being very d-i-p-l-o-m-a-t-i-c in thier comments on how Israel has just thrashed Lebanon's economy : which brings us back by a a commodius vicus of recirculation back to the Golan Heights & environs I'd almost swear that neither Syria nor Iran, Turkey nor Russia, the USA or NATO really want to see bibleland nuked.

do you?

by mafia news Tue Jul 18, 2006 20:00

& they said it was hezbollah, jesus, moshe, yasser, ariel, hamas, hamza, but it really was the dollar.

That's why north Korea wants to fake 'em.
you get awesome power when you tune into mafia news.

But readers, analysts, civilian & conscript alike - Hariri's game is over. So is Arafat's. They amounted to a little over 6 billion euros in physically castigable assets.

When Ireland began her democracy things were poor too.

irish lebanon veterans

irish lebanon veterans

irish lebanon veterans

by redjade Fri Mar 09, 2007 20:24

Israel planned for Lebanon war months in advance, PM says
March 9, 2007
Preparations for Israel's war in Lebanon last summer were drawn up at least four months before two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hizbullah in July, Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, has admitted.

His submission to a commission of inquiry, leaked yesterday, contradicted the impression at the time that Israel was provoked into a battle for which it was ill-prepared. Mr Olmert told the Winograd commission, a panel of judges charged with investigating Israel's perceived defeat in the 34-day war, that he first discussed the possibility of war in January and asked to see military plans in March.

moe at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,2029732,00.html

by Da Sun Mar 11, 2007 05:41

Israeli's ever get those 2 Soldiers Back that Hezzbollah promised to return?