Founding statement of the Republican Socialist Youth Movement

by Tj - rsym Sat Oct 15, 2005 18:51

"If you stand in the internationalist tradition of Marx and Engels, surely you would support a global socialist federation? And surely you would support the maximum integration between socialist countries, including a socialist federation of Britain and Ireland, if that were on the cards."

You'll need to recheck your sources - Marx did support an independent Ireland!

That's ok if you disagree, afterall conditions always change. But you can't use the "tradition" of Marx and Engels as a stick to beat Socialist Republicans with.

Your lack of awareness of current events and the position it leads you to take is what Connolly dubbed "gas and waterworks socialist". You think you can bring socialism to the British Isles in a textbook way, when even reformist powersharing schemes are unworkable. The border issue will have to be resolved for the reason that it divides the working class so.

"I'm afraid to say any organisation connected to the IRSM will always be a sectarian, nationalist group which tries to clothe itself in some kind of socialist rhetoric."

You present that stunning assertion with no evidence - despite the documented history of the IRSP attempting the broad front and lots of solidarity work with activists and organisations from all over the world representing a very diverse section of the left. We're ''sectarian'' and ''nationalist". Ok.

For the record, we agree with Connolly that an "independent" capitalist Ireland would be little better than Ireland is now. We believe anti-coloinialism is essential as part of the class war, but that doesn't make us nationalist - certainly not just because you say so.

by trot Sat Oct 15, 2005 13:23

If you stand in the internationalist tradition of Marx and Engels, surely you would support a global socialist federation? And surely you would support the maximum integration between socialist countries, including a socialist federation of Britain and Ireland, if that were on the cards.

I'm afraid to say any organisation connected to the IRSM will always be a sectarian, nationalist group which tries to clothe itself in some kind of socialist rhetoric.

by Trotwatch Fri Oct 14, 2005 18:56

""Socialist Youth exists already you fools!"

"anonimouse" -I find your comment unhelpful as well as unobservant. We're not Socialist Youth, we're Republican Socialist Youth, sepcifically in the mould of Connolly."

Well said indeed. Socialist Youth dont stand in the tradition of Connolly; they stand in the tradition of Walker. They want to have a Socialist Federation of the British Isles.

by Tj - RSYM Fri Oct 14, 2005 18:51 tj at irsm dot org

"what's the point in youth movements exactly?
Is the work of the IRSM too adult or real to let young people get involved?
Is it so the youth wing (who always tend to be more idealistic and up for action) can tire themselves out?

Anarchists shy away from this sort of isolation between old and young and it works very well, you get a great mix of experience, optimism, knowledge and energy.

Solidarity"

comrade,

The point of a youth movement is to provide activities for people to young to join the party and to develop their abilities. However there is some overlapping membership between the party and the youth movement.

The youth movement will also provide a place for a "youth culture of liberation" that can be formed without the interference of older comrades, who although well meaning, may not understand all the issues facing youth as intimately.

Your assertion about youth and anarchist organisations is untrue. A former Youth Coordinator of the IRSM identified himself with the libertarian current. I have known of many anarchist youth organisations, in fact they were large and very active in Spain during the Civil War and after the war during resistance to the Franco dictatorship. A good resource for more information on this is Sabate: Guerilla Extrodinaire

In solidarity,
Tj

by W Fri Oct 14, 2005 14:29

perhaps I ought have said, In Ireland anarchists shy away from..

I am of course speaking from an irish perspective.

by KBOT (kilkenny boys on tour) Fri Oct 14, 2005 14:22

most of the groups are not affiliates of bigger groups they are groups with youth in name chosen by a bunch of young anarchists. its not the same as w pointed out they stillare not excluded

by X Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:56

"Anarchists shy away from this sort of isolation between old and young and it works very well, you get a great mix of experience, optimism, knowledge and energy."

Solidarity

Just from the first page of a yahoo search

http://www.infoshop.org/kidz/nay.html
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2002/08/37676.html
http://www.orgsites.com/ca/revolutionaryanarchyyouth/
http://www.anarchy.no/ifay.html
http://army_of_the_ppl.tripod.com/asm/manual.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/kominform@lists.eunet.fi/msg06112.html
http://www.trend-one.com/new-1399646-4509.html

by W Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:57

what's the point in youth movements exactly?
Is the work of the IRSM too adult or real to let young people get involved?
Is it so the youth wing (who always tend to be more idealistic and up for action) can tire themselves out?

Anarchists shy away from this sort of isolation between old and young and it works very well, you get a great mix of experience, optimism, knowledge and energy.

Solidarity

by RSYM AC - RSYM Thu Oct 13, 2005 20:46 sp at rsym dot org 392 Falls Road Belfast

"The IRSP pasted west belfast with posters of the rsy movement. There wasnt even a meeting to go to."

The meeting had already happened - the founding Ard Fheis was just a necessary step to get the movement on its feet.

"The IRSP are so isolated from the movement, hence the intense "political education" stuff. This is isolationist and sectarian."

How so? I've known many parties who have educational processes. I don't see anything sectarian in it. We have signficant disagreements with most interpretations of socialism and so we are doing our best to carry on the struggle for a Workers Republic as Connolly taught us.

"Sure you can have have all the education you want but all you will get out of it is a whole load of abstract propagandists who cant relate to anyone in any way just like the IRSP. The challenge for the IRSP is to come out and work in the broad campaigns that are already happening. At the mo they are involved in all of about none."

I agree that work in broad campaigns needs to be done. The parent organisation has developed many contacts internationally and very solid work in working class communities across the sectarian divide. The IRSP is a solid activist group. What they don't do is work in broad campaigns as much. The YM hopes to work in some broad campaigns. You'll notice that the statement mentioned activism.

"Its not education that the IRPS need tobe getting on with its action, campaigns, mobilisation in which you can put your arguement to the test. Not long debates and a yearly easter commemoration.
"the philosophers have interpreted the world the point is to change it".
This is not the 80s. Adapt!"

This is not a copy of anything from the 80s - we didn't name it "patsy o'hara youth movement part 2" for a reason.
___________

"Socialist Youth exists already you fools!"

"anonimouse" -I find your comment unhelpful as well as unobservant. We're not Socialist Youth, we're Republican Socialist Youth, sepcifically in the mould of Connolly.

Thank you both for your interest.

and my apologies to the mods for posting the statement after my comrade had already posted it! I didn't notice it, sorry.

by sean Thu Oct 13, 2005 17:59

The IRSP pasted west belfast with posters of the rsy movement. There wasnt even a meeting to go to. The IRSP are so isolated from the movement, hence the intense "political education" stuff. This is isolationist and sectarian. Sure you can have have all the education you want but all you will get out of it is a whole load of abstract propagandists who cant relate to anyone in any way just like the IRSP. The challenge for the IRSP is to come out and work in the broad campaigns that are already happening. At the mo they are involved in all of about none.
Its not education that the IRPS need tobe getting on with its action, campaigns, mobilisation in which you can put your arguement to the test. Not long debates and a yearly easter commemoration.
"the philosophers have interpreted the world the point is to change it".
This is not the 80s. Adapt!